Talk:Main Page: Difference between revisions

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*[[Talk:Main Page/Archive 2]] (February 28, 2011-April 25, 2011)
*[[Talk:Main Page/Archive 2]] (February 28, 2011-April 25, 2011)
*[[Talk:Main Page/Archive 3]] (April 25, 2011-March 14, 2012)
*[[Talk:Main Page/Archive 3]] (April 25, 2011-March 14, 2012)
*[[Talk:Main Page/Archive 4]] (March 15, 2012-April 27, 2017)
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== Wiki reorganization ==
== Wiki cleanup ==


Since we now have more contents than when we started a year ago, I think it's now the time to reorganize part of series into its own section. My suggestion:
There seems to be a discussion in [http://walpurgischan.net/meduka/res/12934.html Meduka thread] about cleaning up the wiki (and little discussion in [[User talk:Sondenise]]). I think we better continue the discussion here. My idea is that if we want to cleanup the wiki and turn it into something more formal (e.g. less fan content and speculah, more confirmed/official info), we better archive this Wiki as read only and start a new. The reason is that the wiki in its current form is a mix of fan content, speculation and official info, and many parts are not exactly well-organized.  


<pre>
In case we archive the wiki, this will be what happen:
Main page
|
|- Madoka Magica
|  |- Madoka Magica Characters
|  |- Madoka Magica Episodes
|  |- Madoka Magica Theories
|  |- Madoka Magica Observations
|  |- Madoka Magica Soundtrack
|  `- ...
|
|- Madoka Magica Portable
|  |- Madoka Magica Portable Characters
|  |- Madoka Magica Portable Story
|  `- ...
|
|- Madoka Magica Mobage
|  `- ...
|
|- Oriko Magica
|  |- Oriko Magica Characters
|  |- Oriko Magica Chapters
|  `- ...
|
|- Kazumi Magica
|  |- Kazumi Magica Characters
|  |- Kazumi Magica Chapters
|  `- ...
|
|- Deciphering the runes
|- Translated official documents
`- ...
</pre>


...with each section has a footer navbox template similar to the one in Wikipedia (like in [[wikipedia:Bakemonogatari#External_links]]). Any page that don't need its own section goes into flat page as usual (e.g. maybe the Mobage stuff). This would allow contents to expand more easily and make more room for future contents (Movie, possible spinoffs, etc.). Thoughts? --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 10:36, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
* The current wiki content is frozen as read only, and put to oldwiki.puella-magi.net
:I would prefer a page for Translated Official Documents as well as the Translated Official Miscellaneous. It's fine to keep it under Products. There's overlap between the two anyways.  More than Runes, in any case. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 10:55, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
* New wiki is setup at wiki.puella-magi.net (MediaWiki? Something else?)
::Hmm, do you mean section for each documents?  
* "Not found" page in a new wiki contain a link to suggest to look at the same article name in oldwiki.puella-magi.net
<pre>Translated official documents
|- NewType 2999/12
`- ...
</pre>
::But isn't this already the way it works? --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 11:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::I'm asking for two links. One to  [[Translated_Official_Documents|Translated Official Documents]] and  another to [[Translated_Official_Documents_Miscellaneous|Translated  Official Miscellaneous]] to be posted at the same level. They can be kept under Products.  Right now, we only have a link to the first one. [[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 12:18, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::::Ah OK. Yes, we can do that. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:27, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::Yes, thanks.  And it can be "Documents" and "Documents Other" or something to keep the title short. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::I added it as Official Materials in the sidebar for now, should rename the page during reorganization (so it doesn't looks like a subpage of Documents that way). --[[User:0x99|0x99]]


:If we agree on this, please feel free to start breaking [[Puella Magi Madoka Magica Portable]] into multiple subsections (possibly omit the "Puella Magi" part, just [[Madoka Magica Portable]] to keep it short and easy to type). Ping me if you need anything (extensions, etc.) --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 18:36, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I would love to see an opinion from the community on what would be the best way going forward.  


=== Character page ===
Thanks! — [[User:0x99|0x99]] 14:39, 27 April 2017 (UTC)


I think there should be a page for all characters together, or at least a character page with a compilation of witches with their cards. If we break apart the character information too much it will become difficult to transit between medias. It goes like this: --[[User:Derp101|Derp101]] 19:36, 19 March 2012‎ (UTC)
: For a reference current wiki size is 14GB because all the images. Backup in Tarsnap contains about 21GB of unique data. — [[User:0x99|0x99]] 14:43, 27 April 2017 (UTC)


<pre>
::As long as certain pages won't be locked and the sidebar can be updated, I'm up for it. In retrospect, it's quite a hassle to edit every single page here and remove all irrelevant speculation and fanart. It'd be best to start anew and put up some new rules on the wiki so we don't have this issue in the future when new Madoka stuff comes out and everyone goes nuts:
Characters


-Magical Girls-
::* No fan art on character pages or episode pages or etc., we don't need to have people upload individual pieces to show off, people need to search for them on their own. Keep most fanworks to a minimum. The most notable such as Grief Syndrome are permitted to have a page. No joke pages either.
--Puella Magi Madoka Magica/PMMM Portable--
::* No shipping nor speculation, the latter especially whether it be what everyone generally agrees on or not (such as whether Kyubey is evil or not) and/or what people think/predict what will happen in newer works. This should be discussed and kept to /meduka/ or elsewhere. -- [[User:The Witch&#39;s House|The Witch&#39;s House]] 19:13, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
*Here comes the table with Madoka, Homura, Mami, Sayaka, Kyoko and you know who.
--Mobage--
*Table with Komachi, Clair, etc...
--Puella Magi Oriko Magika--
*Table with Oriko, Kirika and Yuma
--Puella Magi Kazumi Magika--
*Table with PMKM cast


-Witches-
::: I certainly agree with getting rid of fanarts; they're the source of hotlinking and take up the most space. Most fan artist do not like that we reprinting them without their permissions, etc. As for speculation, I think if it's still in the area of in-series observation and not a crazy theory (e.g. A may have something to do with Y) it should be OK. Page locking have something to do with preventing spam and edit wars (but that was from 2012), so we could definitely relax on that.
--PMMM Witches--
*Table with anime witches
--PMMM Portable Witches--
*Table with game witches
--Mobage Witches--
*Table with mobager witches
--PMOM Witches--
*Table with PMOM witches
--Kazumi Witches--
*Table with Kazumi witches


-Support Characters-
::: Sidebar is another story though as it's locked by permission in MediaWiki (wiki software) rather than manual lock like other pages. Granting permission to edit sidebar equals to editing all system messages which is a little scary (e.g. you can put up a side-wide persistent banner with the permission). I will see if there is an extension capable of allowing user-edited sidebars without affecting other parts of the wiki. -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 05:10, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
--PMMM/Portable--
*Table with family, classmates and others
--Mobage--
Same as the above
--PMOM--
Same as the above
--PMKM--
Same as the above
</pre>


:Ideally, when the reorganization is completed, [[Characters]] should provide a link to series' character page ''and'' list all characters belong to that series (but just a list of name and links). [[Witches]] page should do the same but for witches. The reason I want to separate character pages to be by series rather than one page for all is because it becomes very hard to find something once the page becomes larger (i.e. non-Madoka characters) due to page size, and such.
: The wiki definitely got cluttered over the years and could use a tune up. My primary concern is whether we have enough (wo)manpower to trim everything down to size. Over the past year, wiki activity has slowed tremendously, with only occasional bouts of individual, herculean efforts. Going through all 666 pages will take a lot work. Either way, I'm going to miss all the fun stuff. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 05:31, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
:My idea is to have character table for each series live in its own page, then we create a section within each character page (for example, "Kaname Madoka in Madoka Magica Portable") listing information specific in each title. What do you think? --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 19:59, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
::I don't like it, it would create to much hindrance for people trying to compare characters or access characters from a different series while looking at separate character pages. I'd rather make the galleries collapsible and put a table of contents at the top of the page if it get's too big. If we start crunching big pages into smaller links the charater page will start looking like a category page. --[[User:Derp101|Derp101]] 21:27, 19 March 2012‎ (UTC)
:::I'm not sure I understand, but if they want to compare characters from different series, separate page for characters should be much easier. You can open browser side by side, or put them in separate tabs and compare. It's easier to compare that way than scroll up and down, IMHO. With informations from PSP game coming, I don't think flat page navigation can scale that well anymore (thus the effort now being put into better in-series navigation.) --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 21:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)


=== Gallery cleanup ===
:: I hear you. But at the same time, we will have a lot more content coming up thanks to Magia Record (story, events, characters, etc.)  If we want to those stuff in the wiki, a cleanup is definitely needed.  For the fun stuff I think Walpurgischan can still be used (I plan to keep it running as long as I could) although I understand that it's not the same kind. -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 05:47, 28 April 2017 (UTC)


Also it might also make sense to cleanup gallery with this reorganization. Character pages are too image-heavy and we're nearly hitting 1TB transfer each month (we used around ~800GB of bandwidth last month). Any input on how to deal with this is always welcome (i.e. what to delete and what to keep). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 15:56, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::: If we're doing this, I'll help when I could. Any goodies we can get if we're starting afresh? How about languages? Webm? Do we have to manually migrate over all the media? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 05:55, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
:I'm glad you're addressing it. I've felt for a while now too many pages have excessive pics in the galleries. I would strongly suggest deleting most of the ones that's easily obtainable from another static source like pixiv, danbooru, etc. unless there's a compelling reason for it. For example, we don't need a dozen pics of Homura with weapons. Just a couple or few will make that point. There's also lots of screenshots that are posted that don't really seem to have a point. We have ten of them in Homura's gallery of just different expressions. Why? If screenshots are posted, they should illustrate a point. For example, I might include three of hers with Moemura, timelooping Homura and ribbon Homura to show contrast in changing expression. People should really think about what they post and why, not just post for the sake of it. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::What about those 2ch/2chan photoshopped images of magazine illustrations? Should we keep it or delete them also? --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 16:11, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Maybe post one of each illustration, and put the rest in a zip for download. Not sure why, but they seem really popular. I get the same download counts for them as I do doujins. Also, maybe get more selective about gifs as well.  I doubt we need as many as we have. Keep the best ones and provide the rest in zips. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::::Hmm, maybe we could make a "photoshopped images of official illustrations" section and dump all of them to it in a organized manner. (Thumbnail of original, then list photoshopped images, and maybe the first time they appeared, etc.) Finding sources would be very hard though. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 16:22, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::It might be a good idea to have image gallery pages for a bunch of different categories. If it's just "don't post more than necessary" we'd have to constantly police people who think posting images cleans their soul gems, but if there's gallery pages they can be directed over there and have fun without filling up high traffic pages. So at the bottom of Homura's page there'd be a text link to Gallery/Homura. [[User:KM|KM]] 20:48, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::Ultimately, that would not resolve the image-heavy pages/1TB data transfer issue 0x99 is talking about. All you're doing is moving pics to a new page, and it's only a matter of time before they become extremely image-heavy.  In fact, dedicating blank pages to image galleries would probably only encourage more image postings. A certain amount of self-restraint makes sense. There's 4chan and other image boards for that purpose, no need to treat the wiki like one. I think the merchandise page could use a look through as well. Many of the pics taken of say a figma from various angles isn't necessary, since the link to purchase it displays all those pics. It's redundant and that page is becoming very long, as new things are constantly being added. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 21:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Isn't the data transfer the result of lots of images being on pages that are getting heavy traffic for the non-image content? If the gallery gets a tiny fraction of the views the character pages get, bandwidth use would drop. Then again, the image board could be used as a gallery. As for merchandise, along with fanworks, those are really long to scroll through, and could be split up by category, with each main page being an overview/index. Are there stats on what percentage of bandwidth use is coming from each section? [[User:KM|KM]] 21:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Unfortunately there's no detailed stats available. Until the recent CloudFront migration, we stored images on a bulk hosting to reduce bandwidth costs (which only has total bandwidth usage available). It works fine until we exceed the 600GB/month cap. Then I migrated to CloudFlare which cache image files and only report total bandwidth usage. I'm not sure if CF has any kind of bandwidth caps, but cleanup any unused or unnecessary images is always better in a long run (backup cost, and such.)
::::::::I think posting non-informative image dump in something like Walpurgischan might be a better idea, since I can implement long caching there without having to worry about expiration (since there's no file versioning) and we can also avoid polluting wiki namespace that way. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 00:22, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
=== "Madoka Magica" reorganization plan ===


In case nobody disagree with this proposal, I'll made a following changes:
:::: Multilangual is definitely one (so we can have en:Pages, ja:Pages, fr:Pages, etc). Setting up wiki-family for supporting multi languages wiki with common assets (photos, etc.) require a bit of work, in which doing with current wiki state is rather difficult (but a lot easier when start anew). WebM/HTML5 video is likely yes because we can upgrade MediaWiki without breaking a lot of stuff (and can set $wgHtml5 to true). Media have to be manually migrated though, but I think uploading files in newer version of MediaWiki is a lot easier than what we have. -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 06:04, 28 April 2017 (UTC)


;[[Madoka Magica]] ← [[Episodes]]
::: Is it really safe to assume we should delete stuff because we have a lot more content? Kirara is defunct and Magia Record isn't going to be any different from your average region locked mobile game.[[User:Trowa199|Trowa199]] 06:42, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
:Move [[Episodes]] page and add few data related to the series such as [[Main Page#Plot|Plot]] from [[Main Page]]. This page will have similar layout to the current [[Main Page]] but only with Madoka Magica (series) specific data and a link to each page in its section (Characters, direct link to episodes, rune translations, etc.)


;[[Madoka Magica Characters]] ← [[Characters]]
:::: I understand your concern. However, my idea was at we leave the current wiki in read only mode at the different URL and start migrating stuff. The existing content would still be there with nothing deleted, and we would have a clean canvas to start reorganizing stuff. If we're not sure whether the effort is going to be successful, we can even leave the current wiki as-is for the time being (at wiki.puella-magi.net) and start a new wiki at different URL until we're satisfied with it before switchover, e.g.
:Either move or migrate [[Characters]] page but without characters data of other series in the franchise. Initially there should be no layout change.
         
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 1: As If We Met in a Dream...]] ← [[Episode 1]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 2: That Sounds Wonderful]] ← [[Episode 2]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 3: I'm Not Afraid of Anything Anymore]] ← [[Episode 3]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 4: Both Miracles and Magic Exist]] ← [[Episode 4]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 5: There's No Way I'd Regret This]] ← [[Episode 5]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 6: This Just Isn't Right]] ← [[Episode 6]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 7: Can You Face Your True Feelings?]] ← [[Episode 7]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 8: I'm Such a Fool]] ← [[Episode 8]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 9: I'll Never Allow That]] ← [[Episode 9]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 10: I Won't Depend on Anyone Anymore]] ← [[Episode 10]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 11: The Only Signpost Remaining]] ← [[Episode 11]]
;[[Madoka Magica Episode 12: My Best Friend]] ← [[Episode 12]]
:Simple page rename will do.


;[[Madoka Magica Drama CD 1: Memories of You]] ← [[Drama CD 1]]
::::* Create new.puella-magi.net as a new wiki (leave wiki.puella-magi.net running as-is)
;[[Madoka Magica Drama CD 2: Sunny Day Life]] ← [[Drama CD 2]]
::::* Start importing stuff from wiki.puella-magi.net to new.puella-magi.net
;[[Madoka Magica Drama CD 3: Farewell Story]] ← [[Drama CD 3]]
::::* Once we're OK with the content in the new wiki, perform a switchover:
:Page rename.
::::** wiki.puella-magi.net -> old.puella-magi.net -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 07:13, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
::::** new.puella-magi.net -> wiki.puella-magi.net
::::* Make sure not found pages in new wiki have a link to old wiki.


;[[Madoka Magica Manga]] ← [[Madoka Magica (manga)]]
:::: This way works too, but may be a little bit confusing on switchover. But either way: no content will be deleted. I plan to keep everything up as long as I could. -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 07:13, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
;[[Madoka Magica Locations]] ← [[Locations]]
;[[Madoka Magica Trivia]] ← [[Facts and Observations]]
:Rename. Separate Kazumi stuff in [[Locations]] page into [[Kazumi Magica Locations]].


;[[Madoka Magica Products]] ← [[Products]]
:: I have the time (mostly late night or early afternoon) to help migrate to a new wiki. I am down for the effort. Also, I was considering starting the content for Magia Record but I'll hold off for now until we start a new wiki from scratch and then add that particular batch of content. Here's my couple of cents:--[[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 06:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
;[[Madoka Magica Merchandise]] ← [[Merchandise]]
:Page rename. Remove Kazumi and Oriko stuff from [[Products]] page.


;[[Madoka Magica Music]] ← [[Character Songs]]
:::* No speculation unless it's something with really strong evidence (and that kind of discussion can be done on walpurgischan.net rather than clutter up a wiki with things that aren't canon). "In-series observation and not a crazy theory (e.g. A may have something to do with Y) it should be OK." Completely agree with this.
;[[Madoka Magica Soundtrack]] ← [[Soundtrack]]
:::* No fanart. It seems like a big waste of space, bandwith, and hotlinking as mentioned above. Also, much of it ends up being pretty irrelevant or non canon (yuri shipping or theoretical magical girl forms of witches)
;[[Madoka Magica Teasers]] ← [[Teasers and Commercials]]
:::* Languages would be fun to have as well. Especially since the show has a dub in several languages (and I speak spanish :3) ---[[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 06:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
:Leave [[Connect]], [[Magia]], [[See You Tomorrow]] and [[And I'm Home]] intact. Make [[Madoka Magica Music|Music]] page list all related songs and link to individual article. For tearers, move non-Madoka stuff into its own section.


;[[Madoka Magica Theories]] ← [[Theories]]
::Ah I see what you mean 0x99. Main reason why I asked about the sidebar is to reorganize it and be able to rename/add new works as they come such as Magica Record to keep everything up-to-date. I'm willing to help with the new wiki as much as I can. Should we divide up the work load like userA adds News related pages/media, userB adds stuff related to Tart, etc., etc.? -- [[User:The Witch&#39;s House|The Witch&#39;s House]] 07:08, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
;[[Madoka Magica Articles]] ← [[Articles]]
:Page rename.


[[Main Page]] should be repurposed for a main portal linking to each "main page" of each title in the series and some of flat page contents (e.g. [[Deciphering the runes]], [[Translated Official Documents]], etc.) News section will be leave intact (probably...) I still not sure what to do with [[Articles]] and [[Facts and Observations]] page. Suggestions welcome. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 19:54, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Also, I know we've gone over the fact that fan art needs to go, but should we limit that in user pages too? (since I do have my own fan made content there...) --[[User:The Witch&#39;s House|The Witch&#39;s House]] 07:23, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
:Shouldn't it be "Music" instead of "Musics"? There is no plural form, as far as I know. Same goes for "Merchandise". --[[User:Knon|Knon]] 05:37, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
::Fixed! --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:11, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
:There should be a page for the each of the movies eventually, right? The first one is [[http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-03-16/1st-madoka-magica-film-aimed-for-fall scheduled for a Fall 2012 release date]]. Also, we should include the Drama CDs on here somewhere.--[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 02:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
::Somehow I missed Drama CDs, added! And yes we will have a page for each movies. Possibly [[Madoka Magica Movie]] with each title as its subpage (e.g. ''Madoka Magica Movie 1: Title'', ''Madoka Magica Movie 2: Title'' and ''Madoka Magica Movie 3: Title''). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 02:33, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Oh, thanks. It looks good so far! Are we putting the Madoka Magica manga on here, also? Sorry I'm not keeping it all in one response, I just noticed it isn't here. --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 02:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
::::I'm still thinking of what to do with it. Since manga version use almost exactly the same organization with the anime, we might better create manga as subpage of [[Madoka Magica]] and have a "Manga differences" subsection listing difference between manga and anime in each episode's page (e.g. [[Madoka Magica Episode 1: As If We Met in a Dream...#Manga differences]]). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 02:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::Makes sense to me. We already have a [[Manga Differences]] page, so we can just copy/paste from there. Only problem would be where to put the images that are from the manga version that have no real place on episode pages. I guess we could always have a main manga page for it, keep the images there, and link to the episode that corresponds to each chapter and the manga differences subsection. --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 03:02, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


:I decided to follow the [http://www.uesp.net/ UESP Wiki] and make the series index page list all available contents rather than excerpt of it. It could be seen in my subpage: [[User:0x99/Madoka Magica]]. All index page of other titles will also follow this format if we decide to use it. Comments welcome. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 17:25, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
:::I'm not against it as long as it doesn't go crazy overboard (like 20+ images) [[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 07:41, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
::RE: Mutopis from the commit summary: <em>Have we decided regarding navigation to the Drama CD and the manga version?</em>
::I think Drama CDs and manga version of ''Madoka Magica'' should be considered sub-content of ''Madoka Magica'' (the series) and thus they have been omitted out from the global series navigation. We can still put a quick link to both pages in the sidebar but the main purpose of the top bar is to quickly navigate between main page of many portals we (will) have (see above). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 23:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


Sorry quite busy at the moment playing the game so the timing of this isn't great for me. I may have more later when I have time to sit down to look at details after I'm done with the game. But to summarize my thoughts:
:::I'm personally OK with posting them in user pages, as long as you have the permission to use them. (I know few fan artist who don't like us because all the reprinting without permission, resolving that would be a good thing too.) -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 08:19, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
*I have two concerns with naming the pages. 1) The episode titles will likely differ in the official Aniplex translation than they do from sub groups. All the BDs aren't released yet, but the official one is what matters. Same thing with the manga when the English version is released, and the games if they're ever officially translated. Then you have a situation where the wiki page name doesn't match the official source, or you rename and then it causes confusion for people referring and saving links. Having and then changing the content of the page title will do just as well when unofficial names get updated to official ones, and won't cause the same problem. Many people will not know or will not use shortcuts. 2) With the full name, the link becomes very long which is user-unfriendly when you post it and the name wraps around, making it more cumbersome for people to copy paste.
*I really don't like everything being grouped under series. What's wrong with keeping them separated as Manga and Games? Throw in Official in front of it if you want to distinguish it from fanmade stuff. When people think series, they think "OK, so there's a Madoka Portable I, Madoka Portable 2, etc." when that isn't the case. It's more descriptive too, to give headers like Manga, so people know what something like "Oriko Magica" is...you can't tell what it is by just seeing the word "Series." 
*The links under Contents make no sense to me. First, Contents is non-descriptive, it doesn't tell you what you're looking at. I don't see how the links under it are related, to be honest. Why is a glossary of anime terms under the same header as a page on Madoka-related events and what do either of them have to do with a collection of official scans?  The Documents section had far more in common with the old Products page. There was significant overlap between the two and cross-links. If you want accuracy, "Documents" should really be "Magazines" and "Materials" should be "Other Media" and they would be considered products, supporting materials, or something of that sort.
Summary of my thoughts: When I look to organize something, I try to find good examples of something similar (other anime-related franchise wiki in this case) and take the best from it and customize it. A good sidebar imo should have 1) logical grouping of key site information, 2) short but descriptive words for headers and links (basically you should have a pretty good idea of what you're looking at before you click on it), 3) the sidebar itself should not be so long that you end up scrolling on it on most computers. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:18, 20 March 2012 (UTC)


:I actually spent few days browsing through smaller and larger Wikis to see how they organizing information when they have more than one title before making this change. From what I found, most create a content portal for each ''series'' then put contents inside it with exception of few shared contents (such as settings or terminology). This type of content organization is consistent with visits pattern in our Wiki, where content of the week gets a lot of traffic and dies down few weeks later. Current example of this is ''Madoka Magica Portable'', which gets more traffic than our front page during the past week. Kazumi Magica becomes relatively popular once there's a new chapter, too.
:::::I meant stuff you made yourself (in my case, my fan witch on my page). I clearly mark them as fanwork so they don't clash of course. --[[User:The Witch&#39;s House|The Witch&#39;s House]] 08:58, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
:Regarding the first point, I'm still unsure of whether to put the title name there, but a simple page name like "Episode 1" doesn't really say anything and it's bad on searchability (at least to me, searching "Madoka Magica Episode 1" put us on page 13 or so, lower than spam sites which is pretty facepalm worthy) but point taken. Maybe we should meet halfway and use use [[Madoka Magica Episode 1]].
:The second point is a bit complex to speak, having everything in flat page make everything really hard to find and understand to non-frequents. Take a visit to Madoka Magica Portable page for example, nearly half of the traffic exit after first visit to the page, another half navigate here and there but ends up going back to Portable page. I think this is a good indication that user want to stay within the series they're interested in rather than being thrown away to somewhere else.
:I don't think we should use page organization to explain what the series is, that should be a role of lead section in the series own page (this is already the case with [[Madoka Magica]] and [[Kazumi Magica]] although they're still lacking).
:For sidebar, please make a suggestion in [[MediaWiki talk:Sidebar]] and I'll change it but please keep the height of sidebar (minus toolbox) less than 900px so most user don't have to scroll down for navigation (5-6 headings max). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 08:09, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
::Visitors flow from GA:
::[[File:GA Portable Visitors Flow.png|400px]]
::This data is within few days span. Feel free to correct me if I misinterpret the data. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 08:17, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
:::I don't think the Portable page right now is a good example. You are getting heavy traffic because the game just came out and lots of people are interested in finding information. It's not an accurate depiction of how cross-traffic works typically on the site. I'm also confused by your explanation of series and contents. It does not really address to me why those particular pages are under "Contents" and why we can't separate manga and games by what they are instead of grouped under "Series." Maybe the easiest is if you could refer me to an example of a site you're modeling after. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 09:01, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
::::Portable is only one example out of many, but isn't that the point of Wiki like this? To easily find information regarding the series. For sidebar stuff, it's simple: flat page, shared contents grouped together. Community-created contents grouped together, and that's it. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by grouped under series, are you talking about the ''sidebar'' or the content organization as a whole? (I assume you were talking about page organization as a whole, like "Manga" has "Madoka", "Kazumi" and "Oriko" subsections instead of living in their own pages or "OST" page has "Madoka", "Madoka Portable" subsections). If you were talking about sidebar, yes, we can separate them, but then I want to keep the sidebar less than 900px (so all contents in sidebar are visible without scrolling to most visitors). In general, [http://www.uesp.net/ UESP] is probably the best example (or [http://wiki.kumetan.net/ Kumeta World] for Japanese wiki). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 09:20, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::Yes, all my comments outside of naming the episodes/chapters etc. (and I think the "Madoka Magica Episode 1" etc. compromise is fine, btw) have to do with the sidebar since that's what I noticed as new when I visited the wiki. I'll move them when I get a chance to continue the convo. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 11:05, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::Ah, OK. Seems like I misunderstood then. Sorry! Feel free put sidebar changes in the [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] if you have any ideas. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:55, 20 March 2012 (UTC)


=== "Oriko Magica" reorganization plan ===
::::::In that case I think it should be fine! -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 04:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


Just like Madoka Magica above:
:::::Did the whole yuri page had to be deleted? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 03:04, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


;[[Oriko Magica]] ← [[Puella Magi Oriko Magica]]
::::::That was me. My apologies. I was trying to scrub off the speculation and mostly unfounded pages from the wiki before we all decided to get a proper discussion going. I think 0x99 said that the wiki is archived periodically so we should be able to revive the page for the purposes of this soon-to-be archived wiki and then we can better decide what analysis/speculation pages would be best to transfer to the new wiki (for example, the deciphering the runes / notes pages would probably be good to have, but a page of debunked theories not so much) [[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 03:25, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
:Page rename.


;[[Oriko Magica Characters]] ← [[Oriko Magica/Characters]]
::::::I've rollback the page to the version before blanking. -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 04:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
:No longer include it into [[Characters]] page.


;[[Oriko Magica Chapter 1: Don't Even Think About Becoming a Magical Girl]]
::I think dividing the workload for the transfer to a new wiki might work best. It would help to prevent us from tripping over each other in the beginning and then after the bulk of that is transferred we can then assign people/pairs/teams for the new content pages that will need to be created on the (new) wiki. 03:25, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
;[[Oriko Magica Chapter 2: I'm Not Crying At All]]
;[[Oriko Magica Chapter 3: Love is Infinitely Finite]]
;[[Oriko Magica Chapter 4: I'll Never Forgive You]]
;[[Oriko Magica Chapter 5: That's What I'm Here For]]
;[[Oriko Magica Chapter 6: Someday isn't Today]]
;[[Oriko Magica Chapter 7: To Protect My World]]
:Copypasta contents from [[Puella Magi Oriko Magica]] page into chapter page. Make a list in Oriko page linking to each chapters. Make an infobox listing volume this chapter was collected on, how many pages are there, characters appearing in this chapter, etc.


Comments welcome --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 01:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
:::There's also the template tags stuff that need to be migrated. I can work on that although we need to list what templates are still needed and where (e.g. [[Template:Runes]], [[Template:Box]]). -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 04:57, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


=== "Kazumi Magica" reorganization plan ===
== Guidelines ==


Just like Oriko Magica:
Before doing anything, we should figure out exactly what guidelines the new wiki will follow first.  [[User:Sondenise]] suggested trimming away fanart, fanwork, and speculation.  If we're going with that, we should nail down exactly what fit into those categories.  Should [[Science]] and [[Architecture]] be trimmed because it's fanwork?  Should [[Population Dynamics]] be trimmed because it's speculative?  We have a great selection in [[Articles]] that are all various degrees of fanwork, will they have a place in the new "formal" wiki? 


;[[Kazumi Magica]] ← [[Puella Magi Kazumi Magica]]
At the minimum, I feel well written and edited analysis has a place in this wiki.  Pages like [[Math]] are among the most popular pages on this wiki, what got it the respect worldwide and in Japan.  It'll be a terrible mistake to remove them all in a rush to act formal.  This wiki was an authoritative source, not because it was official or up-tight, but because it was comprehensive and in-depth.  Let's avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water here. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:45, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
:Page rename.


;[[Kazumi Magica Characters]] ← [[Kazumi Magica/Characters]]
:Personally, I love the math stuff and analytic stuff in the wiki and think they should still be fine. Population dynamics is an amazing analysis work, an even the runes decryption actually are speculative (because official never actually give us an answer for that). I think the primary concern should be where to draw a line. -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 04:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
;[[Kazumi Magica Witches]] ← [[Witches in Kazumi Magica]]
:Move the page to create characters page, and no longer include it in a flat [[Characters]] page. Probably leave [[Pleiades Saints]] the same as before.


;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 1: Bad - Guy - Reckon Off]]
:Some of the pages need cleaning up in terms or reorganization or cosmetic editing for ease of reading but overall I think the pages listed in Articles should stay. They're important contributions and much of it is strongly relevant to the series overall. I think the stuff that primarily needs to go would be more of the Category:Speculah stuff than anything. [[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 07:55, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 2: AHA! Dogs]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 3: Kazumix]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 4: Evil Nuts]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 5: Magicallabbiata]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 6: Loss Parfait]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 7: Gem Picking]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 8: Tempura Ice-Cream]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 9: The Freezer]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 10: Bibbity Bobbity Boo]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 11: Dead or Rice]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 12: Pleiades]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 13: Malefica Farce]]
;[[Kazumi Magica Chapter 14: Cannibalism]]
:Separate chapters from from [[Puella Magi Kazumi Magica]], create infobox in the same manner as Oriko Magica above.


I'm still not sure how to deal with [[Witches in Kazumi Magica]] since most of them have no names. We can probably create new page for each one with name. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 01:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
::What about [[Theories]]?  Some pages like [[Speculah:Let's Predict the Ending]] may be interesting to look back at in hindsight, even when wrong, as such worth preserving. The problem here is without explicit standards, what's "strongly relevant" is vary from editor to editor. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 13:06, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
::We can create pages for the pseudo-witches because we have their human names, but the unnamed normal witches could just be moved to a page that says, "Unnamed Witches of Kazumi Magica", maybe. Or we could call them by when they appeared, like "Kazumi Magica Chapter [Blank] Witch". --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 02:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
:::I think separate page for each witch is cleaner, so "Kazumi Magica Chapter [Blank] Witch" should work if they don't reappear in later chapters (none so far). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 02:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


== Server migration ==
:::FWIW, since we will be starting anew, content from old wiki (i.e. current wiki) would still be accessible from a different URL even after migration. -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 14:07, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


I've recently performed server migration for Puella Magi Wiki and Puella Magi Archive (Walpurgischan migrated two weeks ago) so there might be some hiccup here and there for the first few days. As a little side effect, nightly Wiki dump won't be available until Friday night at least. If anything breaks or you feel the site is slower please feel free to report it in here, I'll do my best effort to fix it. Thanks! <small>Fingers crossed</small> --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 02:58, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
:::We won't lose the pages, they'll still remain here for anyone to see how fans reacted to Madoka when it was first coming out. But for the new wiki, are all those speculah pages really necessary? And which of those pages do we want to keep that we could consider as still relevant?[[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 17:12, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
:PHP process seems to randomly dying way too often, I'm looking for a fix. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 08:45, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


== Slow Updates ==
::::Documenting Speculah during the initial TV airing was an important to the wiki's growth and popularity.  I can see a case to archiving the old ones at the current interregnum, but are we just not going to allow speculah permanently? What about if/when the Madoka sequel airs, will new speculah just be ignored?  I'm less worried about preserving specific pages, but more that we'll get started with the new wiki without a clear consensus and explicit standards on what will the new wiki cover. This entire process came about because of editor conflict. We're going to get a lot more of that if we don't work out some clear guidelines first. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 23:15, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I have noticed that updates are slower, are we running out of material or are people too busy to contribute? I am kinda worry about it...--[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 10:46, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
:Former. Well, there's not much new information for the past few months. Maybe the online game, but I'm getting IP-blocked. :/ --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 13:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
::I found this regarding the Online Game, nevermind, it's for a closed-beta testing, so it's not fully out yet it seems. http://mm.my-gg.com/cbt/ --[[User:SayakaVonSeckendorff|SayakaVonSeckendorff]] 17:52, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
:I've been busy, traveling, slaying demons, slice of life antics, etc. It's not all bad; it was hard to keep up when you'd click 500 recent changes and it would only go back two days. [[User:KM|KM]] 05:11, 9 June 2012 (UTC)


==Upload==
:::::Just thinking out loud; if we use wiki-family, we can have separate wiki but with shared user accounts and assets to support speculation and fandom content. It would be treat in similar way to linking between languages. (Or similar to how Wikipedia - Wiktionary works.) -- [[User:0x99|0x99]] 04:43, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone have problems uploading files? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 11:14, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
:I just tried to upload a 190k jpeg, and it wouldn't work. Just sent me back to a blank upload page. It was also giving me a warning about unencrypted data being sent, which didn't happen in the past. [[User:KM|KM]] 09:02, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
::Whoops, sorry! I force SSL and it seems like upload is now broken. I've reverted the change now. Can you try if it works? --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 16:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


== runes.ttf? ==
* What is the line between Analysis and Speculah?


Okay, I don't know what's going on, but every single time I open a tab in the wiki, a file called runes.ttf gets automatically downloaded. Right now I have 12 of them piled up in my desktop, and it's sorta annoying. I assume it's related to the plugin that allows runespeak, but still. Can you take a look at it? It didn't do this until a few days ago. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 02:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::* Well analysis has fact based evidence behind it and speculation sounds more like theories based on personal opinion. I suppose a good way of keeping both would be to put speculation about say, a new character, on it's own page marked speculation rather than add paragraph after paragraph of what later becomes clutter on the character's biography. [[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 00:53, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
:I didn't do anything, this is likely CF's problem. I'll move Runes fonts to remote server for the time being. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 06:42, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::Grr, just remembered fonts must comply with Cross-Origin Resource Sharing. It can't lives on another domain name. I'll have CF investigate this. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 06:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:This is caused by CF's bug. I've disable the feature that triggered this (resource preloader). It should be fixed for now. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 16:25, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::Still happening for me. --[[User:SayakaVonSeckendorff|SayakaVonSeckendorff]] 23:34, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::Shift+F5 plz. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 18:36, 10 August 2012 (UTC)


== Nana ==
* What criteria mark a [[Fanwork]] as sufficiently notable to be worthy of a wiki article?
There's a PV from Comiket for SHAFT's new magical girl show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqnfv_oiE9g It looks really promising.
* How much fanon belong in the new wiki? 
* What roles should the wiki play to help preserve history of the fandom?


:Someone already brought up the idea of it being set in the same world as Madoka. At first I laughed, but after rewatching the video (without understanding any of the Japanese of course) this is going to be even more fun to investigate than Homura = cat was. [[User:KM|KM]] 13:05, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
::*If we keep the speculation and analysis on it's own page then it would be easier to archive those particular pages later when they're no longer relevant. Just an idea. [[User:Sondenise|Sondenise]] 00:53, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
 
:in b4 Prism Nana Wiki. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 18:37, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 
==Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Different Story==
Someone add Different Story to the Manga Section of the navigation page. It is going to happen sooner or later --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 03:56, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 
== Law of circularity (円環の理) and "guided by the law of circularity" (円環の理に導かれて) ==
 
This terminology is something I see every so often, but I don't see any page that explains it. According to the [http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E5%86%86%E7%92%B0%E3%81%AE%E7%90%86 nicovideo page], it seems like people at first thought it was a made-up term by Mami, but it turns out to be a "legendary phrase among magical girls." However, I do not know where such information would be appropriate.--[[Special:Contributions/192.5.110.4|192.5.110.4]] 02:09, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
:There's mentions of it in the [[Episode 12]] and [[Guidebook]] pages, including a couple Urobuchi quotes. The episode 12 page might be the best place to add more explanation and gather the information about it, which is currently scattered all over and hard to find because everything uses a different translation of the term.
*[[Guidebook]] UROBUCHI: I could only say that it was too much of a surprise (LOL) In particular, I did not expect the "Law of the Circular Ring" [Editor's note: a term appearing in Episode 12, also referred to as Law of Cycles (円環の理 Enkan no Kotowari)] would be misunderstood as a term coined by Mami.
*[[Guidebook]] UROBUCHI: There is this thing that surprisingly became a talking point -- "The Law of Circular Path". That actually means "the ending that will, without exception, visit the girls who embraced hope and chose to take up the destiny of becoming a mahou shoujo." It is not something Mami-san coined herself, but something like an oral tradition that was passed along among mahou shoujo in that world. And so at that place and time, the only one who could not understand at all after hearing those words was Homura. Kyoko also knew and probably Sayaka in that world had also heard those words before.
*[[Otona_Anime_Vol.21]] Urobuchi： – First let's skip “Tiro Finale” (lol) Regarding “the Truth of the Circle Ring” (enkan no kotowari), it is a settei (design) in the world that had been reconstituted, where it was a legend that got passed down orally among the mahou shoujo. So it is not like Mami suddenly came up with that phrase on the spot. Probably Sayaka and Kyouko would have known about it too. At that scene, it was new only to Homura as she had come from another time line.
*[[Super_Decryption_Madoka_Magica]] table of contents reference, no information about the content
*law of cycles/law of the circular path/law of wheels/enkan no kotowari/円環の理/“the Truth of the Circle Ring”/Law of the Circular Ring/law of circularity
[[User:KM|KM]] 21:12, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 
== Server Migration ==
 
I've moved the Wiki and Walpurgis to dedicated VPS in New York which should make everything slightly faster thanks to being closer to CloudFlare edge. For the next two days, expect things to become slower due to [http://www.tarsnap.com/ Tarsnap backup] (which is CPU-heavy) being re-run. If you found something previously working, but now broke, please report it here. I'll do my best to fix it. Thanks. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 22:00, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 
:The only image that loads in my computer is the banner of the wiki. It doesn't even try to load other images.
 
:The problem seems to be that, for some reason, all images have the parameter <code>style="display:none;visibility:hidden"</code> in the HTML code. Anyone knows why? [[User:Nethac DIU|Nethac DIU]] 17:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 
::EDIT: Oops. I remembered now to allow scripts from cloudflare.com. Now the images work.
 
::Still, why do they require JavaScript to show up? [[User:Nethac DIU|Nethac DIU]] 17:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 
== Looks like someone published this wiki into a book ==
 
Check it out - [http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1080436052 魔法少女小圆珍藏宝典] released on May 16th, 2011.  It got our rune table and everything.  In Chinese, of course. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 05:24, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 
== Site was down earlier today... ==
 
...due to CloudFlare (as with 4chan, Imgur, and many other sites). Read more at http://blog.cloudflare.com/todays-outage-post-mortem-82515 However we probably won't be dropping CloudFlare for this, since we need to offload bandwidth usage somewhere (CF is currently handling nearly 930GB of our 1.4TB monthly traffic). --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 15:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 
== Front page news ==
Could we change it to include the more recent Rebellion information? I think we can also remove the Beginnings+Eternal home video release information. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 11:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
: How about something like this? --[[User:Knon|Knon]] 14:26, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
{|style="width: 100%; margin: 0 0 5px; border-spacing: 0;"
|style="width: 150px;"|[[File:The Rebellion Story Key Visual 02.jpg|150px]]
|style="vertical-align: top; border: 1px solid #3e105e; background: #f7f0fc; padding: 10px 20px;"|
<h4>[[The Rebellion Story]] begins screening in Japan on October 26, 2013!</h4>
See [[The_Rebellion_Story#International_release|International Release]] for details about screenings in other countries.
 
<h4>News:</h4>
* [http://www.madoka-magica.com/ The official website] has been updated with the movie's second key visual.
* A sixth magical girl has been revealed. [[Nagisa Momoe|See Nagisa Momoe for more details]].
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbz0GqBAScM Watch the newest trailer.]
|}
{|style="width: 100%; margin: 0 0 5px; border-spacing: 0;"
|style="vertical-align: top; border: 1px solid #44ba03; position: relative; background: #f4fdef; padding: 10px 20px;"|
The first two [[Madoka Magica Movie]]s have been released on Blu-Ray and DVD. See [[Madoka_Magica_Products#Movies|the products page]] for release details. Also being offered [http://www.madokamagicausa.com/movie.php internationally].
|}
:I like it! I like it a lot.--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:44, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
::Great. I hope it's okay if I went ahead and added it to the main page. --[[User:Knon|Knon]] 07:01, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Is there a mod in the house? ==
We're being swarmed by spammers.--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 15:02, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
:0x99, thanks! --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 23:57, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 
== Puella-Magi Wiki is turning 3! ==
 
Should we be making plans to celebrate? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:00, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 
== Happy New Year! ==
 
2016 will soon be upon us, and it'll be Puella Magi Wiki's 6th year in operation!  How time flies.  I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday season.  With the Madoka sequel finally confirmed, it's never a more exciting time to be a Madoka superfan, and I foresee busy time ahead for this wiki.  Happy New Years! - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 19:26, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 
Anyone have any New Years Resolution that you want to share for the wiki? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 19:26, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 
Happy New Year Prima :) My new years thingy is to give this wiki a serious clean up lol [[User:Espeon|Espeon]] 21:31, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 
Does this wiki turn 4 on 7th Jan? Cuz its my birthday :) [[User:Espeon|Espeon]] 21:33, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 
: No, it's almost five, almost old enough for [[Mitakihara Kindergarten Mahougumi|kindergarten]]! Also, happy birthday!  Coincidentally, that was also when the [[Episode 1|TV series first premiered]]!  - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 22:13, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 
Really? Well my birthday is in 2 days! What a coincidence though... Might be why I like Madoka so much lol! I actually have the Production Note apparently its really rare now. Im getting the Offical Guidebook ''You are not alone'' for my birthday. Well see you later! :) [[User:Espeon|Espeon]] 16:01, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 
As mentioned in the Grief Seed talk page, my New Year's Resolution is figure out how to make wiki Templates to tidy up the joint.  - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 22:15, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 04:43, 30 April 2017

Previous discussions are archived at:

Wiki cleanup

There seems to be a discussion in Meduka thread about cleaning up the wiki (and little discussion in User talk:Sondenise). I think we better continue the discussion here. My idea is that if we want to cleanup the wiki and turn it into something more formal (e.g. less fan content and speculah, more confirmed/official info), we better archive this Wiki as read only and start a new. The reason is that the wiki in its current form is a mix of fan content, speculation and official info, and many parts are not exactly well-organized.

In case we archive the wiki, this will be what happen:

  • The current wiki content is frozen as read only, and put to oldwiki.puella-magi.net
  • New wiki is setup at wiki.puella-magi.net (MediaWiki? Something else?)
  • "Not found" page in a new wiki contain a link to suggest to look at the same article name in oldwiki.puella-magi.net

I would love to see an opinion from the community on what would be the best way going forward.

Thanks! — 0x99 14:39, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

For a reference current wiki size is 14GB because all the images. Backup in Tarsnap contains about 21GB of unique data. — 0x99 14:43, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
As long as certain pages won't be locked and the sidebar can be updated, I'm up for it. In retrospect, it's quite a hassle to edit every single page here and remove all irrelevant speculation and fanart. It'd be best to start anew and put up some new rules on the wiki so we don't have this issue in the future when new Madoka stuff comes out and everyone goes nuts:
  • No fan art on character pages or episode pages or etc., we don't need to have people upload individual pieces to show off, people need to search for them on their own. Keep most fanworks to a minimum. The most notable such as Grief Syndrome are permitted to have a page. No joke pages either.
  • No shipping nor speculation, the latter especially whether it be what everyone generally agrees on or not (such as whether Kyubey is evil or not) and/or what people think/predict what will happen in newer works. This should be discussed and kept to /meduka/ or elsewhere. -- The Witch's House 19:13, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I certainly agree with getting rid of fanarts; they're the source of hotlinking and take up the most space. Most fan artist do not like that we reprinting them without their permissions, etc. As for speculation, I think if it's still in the area of in-series observation and not a crazy theory (e.g. A may have something to do with Y) it should be OK. Page locking have something to do with preventing spam and edit wars (but that was from 2012), so we could definitely relax on that.
Sidebar is another story though as it's locked by permission in MediaWiki (wiki software) rather than manual lock like other pages. Granting permission to edit sidebar equals to editing all system messages which is a little scary (e.g. you can put up a side-wide persistent banner with the permission). I will see if there is an extension capable of allowing user-edited sidebars without affecting other parts of the wiki. -- 0x99 05:10, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
The wiki definitely got cluttered over the years and could use a tune up. My primary concern is whether we have enough (wo)manpower to trim everything down to size. Over the past year, wiki activity has slowed tremendously, with only occasional bouts of individual, herculean efforts. Going through all 666 pages will take a lot work. Either way, I'm going to miss all the fun stuff. - Prima 05:31, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I hear you. But at the same time, we will have a lot more content coming up thanks to Magia Record (story, events, characters, etc.) If we want to those stuff in the wiki, a cleanup is definitely needed. For the fun stuff I think Walpurgischan can still be used (I plan to keep it running as long as I could) although I understand that it's not the same kind. -- 0x99 05:47, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
If we're doing this, I'll help when I could. Any goodies we can get if we're starting afresh? How about languages? Webm? Do we have to manually migrate over all the media? - Prima 05:55, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Multilangual is definitely one (so we can have en:Pages, ja:Pages, fr:Pages, etc). Setting up wiki-family for supporting multi languages wiki with common assets (photos, etc.) require a bit of work, in which doing with current wiki state is rather difficult (but a lot easier when start anew). WebM/HTML5 video is likely yes because we can upgrade MediaWiki without breaking a lot of stuff (and can set $wgHtml5 to true). Media have to be manually migrated though, but I think uploading files in newer version of MediaWiki is a lot easier than what we have. -- 0x99 06:04, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Is it really safe to assume we should delete stuff because we have a lot more content? Kirara is defunct and Magia Record isn't going to be any different from your average region locked mobile game.Trowa199 06:42, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I understand your concern. However, my idea was at we leave the current wiki in read only mode at the different URL and start migrating stuff. The existing content would still be there with nothing deleted, and we would have a clean canvas to start reorganizing stuff. If we're not sure whether the effort is going to be successful, we can even leave the current wiki as-is for the time being (at wiki.puella-magi.net) and start a new wiki at different URL until we're satisfied with it before switchover, e.g.
  • Create new.puella-magi.net as a new wiki (leave wiki.puella-magi.net running as-is)
  • Start importing stuff from wiki.puella-magi.net to new.puella-magi.net
  • Once we're OK with the content in the new wiki, perform a switchover:
    • wiki.puella-magi.net -> old.puella-magi.net -- 0x99 07:13, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
    • new.puella-magi.net -> wiki.puella-magi.net
  • Make sure not found pages in new wiki have a link to old wiki.
This way works too, but may be a little bit confusing on switchover. But either way: no content will be deleted. I plan to keep everything up as long as I could. -- 0x99 07:13, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I have the time (mostly late night or early afternoon) to help migrate to a new wiki. I am down for the effort. Also, I was considering starting the content for Magia Record but I'll hold off for now until we start a new wiki from scratch and then add that particular batch of content. Here's my couple of cents:--Sondenise 06:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
  • No speculation unless it's something with really strong evidence (and that kind of discussion can be done on walpurgischan.net rather than clutter up a wiki with things that aren't canon). "In-series observation and not a crazy theory (e.g. A may have something to do with Y) it should be OK." Completely agree with this.
  • No fanart. It seems like a big waste of space, bandwith, and hotlinking as mentioned above. Also, much of it ends up being pretty irrelevant or non canon (yuri shipping or theoretical magical girl forms of witches)
  • Languages would be fun to have as well. Especially since the show has a dub in several languages (and I speak spanish :3) ---Sondenise 06:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Ah I see what you mean 0x99. Main reason why I asked about the sidebar is to reorganize it and be able to rename/add new works as they come such as Magica Record to keep everything up-to-date. I'm willing to help with the new wiki as much as I can. Should we divide up the work load like userA adds News related pages/media, userB adds stuff related to Tart, etc., etc.? -- The Witch's House 07:08, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Also, I know we've gone over the fact that fan art needs to go, but should we limit that in user pages too? (since I do have my own fan made content there...) --The Witch's House 07:23, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm not against it as long as it doesn't go crazy overboard (like 20+ images) Sondenise 07:41, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm personally OK with posting them in user pages, as long as you have the permission to use them. (I know few fan artist who don't like us because all the reprinting without permission, resolving that would be a good thing too.) -- 0x99 08:19, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I meant stuff you made yourself (in my case, my fan witch on my page). I clearly mark them as fanwork so they don't clash of course. --The Witch's House 08:58, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
In that case I think it should be fine! -- 0x99 04:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Did the whole yuri page had to be deleted? --Mutopis 03:04, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
That was me. My apologies. I was trying to scrub off the speculation and mostly unfounded pages from the wiki before we all decided to get a proper discussion going. I think 0x99 said that the wiki is archived periodically so we should be able to revive the page for the purposes of this soon-to-be archived wiki and then we can better decide what analysis/speculation pages would be best to transfer to the new wiki (for example, the deciphering the runes / notes pages would probably be good to have, but a page of debunked theories not so much) Sondenise 03:25, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I've rollback the page to the version before blanking. -- 0x99 04:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I think dividing the workload for the transfer to a new wiki might work best. It would help to prevent us from tripping over each other in the beginning and then after the bulk of that is transferred we can then assign people/pairs/teams for the new content pages that will need to be created on the (new) wiki. 03:25, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
There's also the template tags stuff that need to be migrated. I can work on that although we need to list what templates are still needed and where (e.g. Template:Runes, Template:Box). -- 0x99 04:57, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Guidelines

Before doing anything, we should figure out exactly what guidelines the new wiki will follow first. User:Sondenise suggested trimming away fanart, fanwork, and speculation. If we're going with that, we should nail down exactly what fit into those categories. Should Science and Architecture be trimmed because it's fanwork? Should Population Dynamics be trimmed because it's speculative? We have a great selection in Articles that are all various degrees of fanwork, will they have a place in the new "formal" wiki?

At the minimum, I feel well written and edited analysis has a place in this wiki. Pages like Math are among the most popular pages on this wiki, what got it the respect worldwide and in Japan. It'll be a terrible mistake to remove them all in a rush to act formal. This wiki was an authoritative source, not because it was official or up-tight, but because it was comprehensive and in-depth. Let's avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water here. - Prima 03:45, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Personally, I love the math stuff and analytic stuff in the wiki and think they should still be fine. Population dynamics is an amazing analysis work, an even the runes decryption actually are speculative (because official never actually give us an answer for that). I think the primary concern should be where to draw a line. -- 0x99 04:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Some of the pages need cleaning up in terms or reorganization or cosmetic editing for ease of reading but overall I think the pages listed in Articles should stay. They're important contributions and much of it is strongly relevant to the series overall. I think the stuff that primarily needs to go would be more of the Category:Speculah stuff than anything. Sondenise 07:55, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
What about Theories? Some pages like Speculah:Let's Predict the Ending may be interesting to look back at in hindsight, even when wrong, as such worth preserving. The problem here is without explicit standards, what's "strongly relevant" is vary from editor to editor. - Prima 13:06, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
FWIW, since we will be starting anew, content from old wiki (i.e. current wiki) would still be accessible from a different URL even after migration. -- 0x99 14:07, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
We won't lose the pages, they'll still remain here for anyone to see how fans reacted to Madoka when it was first coming out. But for the new wiki, are all those speculah pages really necessary? And which of those pages do we want to keep that we could consider as still relevant?Sondenise 17:12, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Documenting Speculah during the initial TV airing was an important to the wiki's growth and popularity. I can see a case to archiving the old ones at the current interregnum, but are we just not going to allow speculah permanently? What about if/when the Madoka sequel airs, will new speculah just be ignored? I'm less worried about preserving specific pages, but more that we'll get started with the new wiki without a clear consensus and explicit standards on what will the new wiki cover. This entire process came about because of editor conflict. We're going to get a lot more of that if we don't work out some clear guidelines first. - Prima 23:15, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Just thinking out loud; if we use wiki-family, we can have separate wiki but with shared user accounts and assets to support speculation and fandom content. It would be treat in similar way to linking between languages. (Or similar to how Wikipedia - Wiktionary works.) -- 0x99 04:43, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
  • What is the line between Analysis and Speculah?
  • Well analysis has fact based evidence behind it and speculation sounds more like theories based on personal opinion. I suppose a good way of keeping both would be to put speculation about say, a new character, on it's own page marked speculation rather than add paragraph after paragraph of what later becomes clutter on the character's biography. Sondenise 00:53, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
  • What criteria mark a Fanwork as sufficiently notable to be worthy of a wiki article?
  • How much fanon belong in the new wiki?
  • What roles should the wiki play to help preserve history of the fandom?
  • If we keep the speculation and analysis on it's own page then it would be easier to archive those particular pages later when they're no longer relevant. Just an idea. Sondenise 00:53, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
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