Puella Magi Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Madoka Magica Soundtrack

2014-09-27T00:54:57Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Unreleased track from Ep 7 */

== Notes ==
I'm just going to leave this here:
*Tracklist of music used throughout the series.
*Note that this list might contain inaccuracies.
*TentXX = Tentative(ly named) Track XX, names are usually chosen by what happens in the scene, to match with actual track names once OSTs are out.
*Also note that sometimes the same track might play with certain instruments muted or on a changed key.
*Once this is cleaned and verified, might be a good idea to put into the actual article.

== Episode breakdown ==
Also, sorry for autism. Splitting this up a bit. --[[User:Piparkaq|Piparkaq]] 21:13, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
:Can't read moon, but [http://apricotcomplex.com/archives/51709821.html?utm_source=%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A9%E3%81%8B%E2%98%86%E3%83%9E%E3%82%AE%E3%82%AB&utm_medium=twitter this might be good reference material]. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 15:05, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
=== Episode 1 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP01 (timed from [MahouShoujo+yesy]_Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica_01_[1280x720p][ts][x264][aac][794f520d].mkv)'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:57 || 02:48 || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 03:06 || 04:39 || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 05:27 || 06:57 || BGM01 || Scaena felix (A Happy Scene)
|-
| 07:46 || 09:15 || BGM02 || Postmeridie (In the Afternoon)
|-
| 10:12 || 10:55 || BGM03 || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 12:01 || 13:13 || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl in the Dream)
|-
| 14:00 || 14:50 || BGM05a || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic)
|-
| 15:19 || 16:45 || BGM06 || Desiderium (Longing)
|-
| 17:39 || 18:?? || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 19:22 || 21:02 || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 21:42 || 22:25 || BGM08 || Credens justitiam (Believing in Justice)
|-
| ??:?? || ??:?? || ED1 || Mata Ashita
|-
| 24:05 || 24:20 || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 2 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP02 (timed from [MahouShoujo+yesy]_Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica_02_[1280x720p][ts][x264][aac][fb1e440d].mkv)'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:00 || 00:26 || BGM08 || Credens justitiam (Believing in Justice)
|-
| 00:48 || 02:22 || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 02:50 || 04:30 || BGM06 || Desiderium (Longing)
|-
| 05:20 || 07:00 || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 07:20 || 08:29 || BGM02 || Postmeridie (In the Afternoon)
|-
| 09:26 || 10:25 || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl in the Dream )
|-
| 12:40 || 13:52 || BGM10 || "What Wish Did You Make, Homura-chan?" (Tentative title)
|-
| 14:29 || 15:12 || BGM05a || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic)
|-
| 15:30 || 16:26 || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 16:34 || 17:51 || BGM11 || Pugna cum maga (A Duel with a Witch)
|-
| 18:01 || 19:15 || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 19:37 || 21:36 || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 23:05 || 24:03 || BGM01 || Scaena felix (A Happy Scene)
|-
| ??:?? || ??:?? || ED1 || Mata Ashita
|-
| 24:05 || 24:19 || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 3 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP03 (timed from [MahouShoujo+yesy]_Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica_03_[1280x720p][ts][x264][aac][1e87a706].mkv)'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:00 || 00:55 || BGM01 || Scaena felix (A Happy Scene)
|-
| 00:55 || 01:25 || IN || Vocalise, Op. 34, No. 14 (Sergei Rachmaninoff)
|-
| 01:25 || 03:00 || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 04:27 || 06:30 || BGM03a || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 07:52 || 08:46 || BGM06 || Desiderium (Longing)
|-
| 08:58 || 09:57 || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl in the Dream)
|-
| 10:22 || 11:46 || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 11:46 || 12:22 || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 12:31 || 14:34 || BGM11 || Pugna cum maga (A Duel with a Witch)
|-
| 15:18 || 17:50 || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl! )
|-
| 18:02 || 19:03 || BGM08 || Credens justitiam (Believing in Justice)
|-
| 19:09 || 20:02 || BGM13 || "Don't Get Ahead Of Yourself" (Tentative title)
|-
| 20:30 || 21:22 || BGM14 || "Homura vs Charlotte" (Tentative title)
|-
| 21:39 || 22:29 || BGM09b || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl! ) (Slow darker ver)
|-
| 22:30 || 24:03 || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 24:05 || 24:19 || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 4 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP04 (timed from [MahouShoujo+yesy]_Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica_04_[1280x720p][ts][x264][aac][88c6401c].mkv)'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 03:33 || 01:48 || BGM15 || "Sayaka's Grief" (Tentative title)
|-
| 01:49 || 03:21 || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 03:41 || 04:50 || BGM16 || "Madoka's Grief" (Tentative title)
|-
| 05:26 || 07:57 || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl! )
|-
| 08:42 || 09:16 || BGM09b || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl! )(Slow darker ver)
|-
| 10:37 || 12:55 || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl in the Dream)
|-
| 13:28 || 14:53 || BGM03a || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 16:00 || 18:55 || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 19:05 || 21:11 || BGM14 || "Homura vs Charlotte" (Tentative title)
|-
| 21:55 || 22:55 || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 22:58 || 24:33 || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 24:35 || 24:49 || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 5 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP05 (timed from [MahouShoujo+yesy]_Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica_05_[1280x720p][ts][x264][aac][905f573f].mkv)'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:05 || 01:02 || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 01:03 || 02:35 || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 03:40 || 05:53 || BGM01 || Scaena felix (A Happy Scene)
|-
| 06:48 || 08:20 || BGM03a || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 08:31 || 09:44 || IN || "Ave Maria"
|-
| 11:19 || 13:57 || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 15:01 || 16:37 || BGM03b || Conturbatio (Disorder) (Arrange)
|-
| 16:40 || 17:43 || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 18:25 || 19:29 || BGM17 || "Witches Eat Weak People and We Eat Witches" (Tentative title)
|-
| 20:48 || 22:28 || BGM14 || "Homura vs Charlotte" (Tentative title)
|-
| 22:30 || 24:03 || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 24:05 || 24:19 || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 6 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP06 (timed from [MahouShoujo+yesy]_Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica_06_[1280x720p][ts][x264][aac][acc327f4].mkv)'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:00 || 00:22 || BGM14 || "Homura vs Charlotte" (Tentative title)
|-
| 00:23 || 02:23 || BGM17 || "Witches Eat Weak People and We Eat Witches" (Tentative title)
|-
| 02:24 || 03:53 || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 04:41 || 06:47 || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 06:29 || 07:52 || OPb || Connect -DDR MIX-
|-
| 08:50 || 10:57 || BGM18 || Terror adhaerens (Clinging Terror)
|-
| 11:17 || 13:06 || BGM19 || "The Melancholy of Madoka Kaname
|-
| 13:13 || 15:02 || BGM31 || Clementia (Compassion)
|-
| 15:40 || 15:56 || IN || "Asshole playing violin"
|-
| 15:56 || 17:23 || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 17:57 || 19:09 || BGM14 || "Homura vs Charlotte" (Tentative title)
|-
| 19:40 || 22:05 || BGM20 || "DO NOT THROW SOULS" (Tentative title)
|-
| 22:35 || 24:04 || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 24:04 || 24:20 || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 7 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP07'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:34|| || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 02:37|| || OP ||Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 04:19|| || BGM15 || "Sayaka's Grief" (Tentative title)
|-
| 06:54|| || BGM09b || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)オルゴール風
|-
| 08:34|| || BGM21 || 「回想のテーマ」
|-
| 10:02|| || BGM17 || "Witches Eat Weak People and We Eat Witches" (Tentative title)
|-
| 12:37|| || BGM09c || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)-instrumental-
|-
| 15:28|| || BGM03a || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 16:36|| || BGM22 || 「動揺のテーマ」
|-
| 18:00|| || BGM16 || "Madoka's Grief" (Tentative title)
|-
| 20:42|| || BGM03b || Conturbatio (Disorder)(Violin)
|-
| 22:24|| || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 23:54|| || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}
=== Episode 8 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP08'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:00 || || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 01:26 || || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 03:02 || || BGM15 || "Sayaka's Grief" (Tentative title)
|-
| 05:45 || || BGM17 || "Witches Eat Weak People and We Eat Witches" (Tentative title)
|-
| 09:01 || || BGM03a || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 10:41 || || BGM22 || 「動揺のテーマ」
|-
| 15:29 || || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 17:53 || || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl from the Dream)
|-
| 20:52 || || BGM03b || Conturbatio (Disorder) (Violin)
|-
| 22:25 || || ED2 || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 23:56 || || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 9 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP09'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name

|-
| 00:21 || || BGM13 || "Don't Get Ahead Of Yourself" (Tentative title)
|-
| 01:57 || || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 03:30 || || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 06:34 || || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 11:46 || || BGM03a || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 13:14 || || BGM16 || "Madoka's Grief" (Tentative title)
|-
| 15:21 || || BGM18 || Terror adhaerens (Clinging Terror)
|-
| 18:28 || || BGM23 || 「魔女さやかのテーマ」
|-
| 22:58 || || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl from the Dream)
|-
| 23:56 || || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 10 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP10'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name

|-
| 00:16 || || BGM02 || Postmeridie/Afternoon
|-
| 02:36 || || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 03:46 || || BGM08 || Credens justitiam (Believing in Justice )
|-
| 05:15 || || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 09:12 || || BGM05a || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic)
|-
| 12:47 || || BGM11 || Pugna cum maga (A Duel with a Witch)
|-
| 15:05 || || BGM09b || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)オルゴール風
|-
| 18:07 || || BGM24 || 「もう誰にも頼らないのテーマ」
|-
| 18:46 || || ED || Magia ~TV Version~
|-
| 21:23 || || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl from the Dream)
|-
| 22:25 || || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 23:56 || || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 11 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP11'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name

|-
| 00:14 || || BGM09b || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)オルゴール風
|-
| 02:02 || || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|-
| 03:34 || || BGM15 || "Sayaka's Grief" (Tentative title)
|-
| 05:13 || || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 08:47 || || BGM21 || 「回想のテーマ」
|-
| 10:52 || || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl from the Dream)
|-
| 12:46 || || BGM10 || "What Wish Did You Make, Homura-chan?"
|-
| 15:52 || || BGM25 || 「ワルプルギスの夜」
|-
| 18:45 || || BGM26 || 「何度やってもあいつに勝てない」※BGM25の後半に続く同一曲？
|-
| 21:54 || || BGM26 || 「何度やってもあいつに勝てない」※BGM25の後半に続く同一曲？
|-
| 23:55 || || BGM05b || Salve, terrae magicae (Greetings, Worlds of Magic) -Preview version-
|}

=== Episode 12 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''EP12'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 00:29 || || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 02:46 || || BGM27 || 「女神まどかのテーマ」
|-
| 07:33 || || BGM28 || 「宇宙のテーマ」
|-
| 10:31 || || BGM27 || 「女神まどかのテーマ」
|-
| 13:42 || || IN || Ave Maria
|-
| 16:52 || || BGM29 || 「土手での会話」
|-
| 19:28 || || BGM30 || 「魔獣を前にして」
|-
| 21:29 || || OP || Connect -TV MIX-
|}

=== Drama CD 1 ===
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''[[Drama_CD_1|Drama CD 1]]'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Track name
|-
| 01:15 || 02:15 || BGM02 || Postmeridie (In the Afternoon)
|-
| 03:28 || 04:48 || BGM06 || Desiderium (Longing)
|-
| 06:45 || 08:40 || BGM01 || Scaena felix (A Happy Scene)
|-
| 09:20 || 09:54 || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 10:08 || 11:25 || BGM03a || Conturbatio (Disorder)
|-
| 14:05 || 14:55 || BGM12 || Umbra nigra (Black Shadow)
|-
| 17:28 || 18:10 || BGM07 || Gradus prohibitus (Hindered Steps)
|-
| 18:30 || 19:00 || BGM08 || Credens justitiam (Believing in Justice)
|-
| 20:00 || 22:20 || BGM09a || Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
|-
| 22:56 || 24:17 || BGM?? || ?
|-
| 24:37 || 26:22 || BGM31 || Clementia (Compassion)
|-
| 27:10 || 29:00 || BGM04 || Puella in somnio (The Girl in the Dream )
|}

EP06 - EP10 TBD sometime tomorrow [[Special:Contributions/95.79.152.115|95.79.152.115]] 20:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

:helping out, [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:30, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

:: make that tomorrow next week, goddamn IRL [[Special:Contributions/95.79.86.247|95.79.86.247]] 05:40, 28 March 2011 (BST)

I don't have a slowpoke slow enough for you guys, 7-12 next 2 days, [[User:Polymerase|Polymerase]] 09:17, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Two things about the episode breakdown on the page:
# Shouldn't we differentiate the speculative titles and the official ones? Like putting the tentative titles in italic
# What is the "track number"? Shouldn't we replace it with the actual track number from the OST now that we know it? (so Scaena felix would become 01-12, Postmeridie 01-08, etc)
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
:Just corrected it. Is it good enough? --[[User:KFYatek|kFYatek]] 12:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Added the time for Mata Ashita for episode 1. I used the bluray version ([Doki] Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica - 01 (1280x720 h264 BD AAC).mkv) So the timing might need to be fixed. [[User:Snsninja|Snsninja]] 22:43, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

== Fanmade OST ==

FANMADE BGM:
{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
! width="100" | Track
! width="col" | Track name
! scope="col" | Covers
|-
| Tent03
|Homura's Appearance <br />''Chime version of Tent20 "Sayaka's Theme"''
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13860059
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13889950 (Piano)
|-
| Tent05
|Next Episode Preview Theme
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/nm13846854
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/nm13873144 (Short)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13872098 (Short, piano)
|-
| Tent06
| "Peaceful Theme"
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13883929 (Piano)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13468707 (MIDI orchestra)
|-
| Tent09
| "Mami's Battle Theme"
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13869780 (Violin quartet, instrumental)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13968652 (Rock, vocal)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13834828 (Chorus, ensemble)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13926257 (Orchestra, instrumental)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13628459
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13454654
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13802908 (Piano)
|-
| Tent10
| "Magical Girl Stories Need More Celtic Motifs"
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13914810
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13885104 (Metal)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/nm13891592 (+ "Oktavia's theme")
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13915005
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13814889 (Violin duo)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13824590
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13901446 (Vocal version of above)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13491750 (MIDI orchestra)
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TuXf_R7sV8 (Piano)
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYeJRyLS980 (MIDI guitar)
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHUlf-4tiaU (MIDI piano)
|-
| Tent17
| "Madoka's Grief"
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13867622 (Piano)
|-
| Tent20
| Sayaka's Theme" <br /> ''Orchestra version of Tent03 "Homura's Appearance" ''
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13904749
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13778176 (Electric organ)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13715696 (Piano)
|-
|
Tent??
|"Oktavia's theme"
|
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13882084
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13830981 (Piano)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13827829 (Piano)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13834255 (Organ)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/nm13832025 (Organ)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13852542 (Piano)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13798558 (MIDI)
*http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13953913
|}

;[http://green-oval.net/cgi-board.pl/a/thread/47462552#p47462764 Source]

== [Meduca] Music Archive ==

I maintain the [Meduca] music archive and is in the process of renaming the music pack under the conventions of the BGM breakdown. Here's the tracks already in the pack that were not in the above listing:
;[http://www.mediafire.com/?de5uk04t8cuk5di Madoka Music Pack v00012-I.zip]
*sm13828069 WSayaka Theme -piano- '''probably Tent??'''
*sm13883667 WSayaka Theme -full cover- '''probably Tent??'''
*sm13825521 Mami Theme -cover- '''probably Tent09'''
*sm13827730 Mami Theme -chorus- '''probably Tent09'''
*sm13815988 Mami Theme -remix- '''probably Tent09'''
*sm13811268 Mami Theme -piano- '''probably Tent09'''
*sm13794695 QBs Topic of Business -music box- '''probably Tent10'''
*sm13880451 QBs Topic of Business -chorus- '''probably Tent10'''
*QBs Topic of Business -piano by animezzz- '''probably Tent10'''
*sm13798388 Arenji 3 -midi-
*Sad Theme -guitar-

*sm13761795 Connect -music box-
*sm13837472 Connect -orchestral-
*sm13834416 Connect -violin-
*sm13577865 Connect -DDR remix-
*sm13500891 Connect -Japanese cover-
*sm13906269 Connect -band-
*Connect -piano tv ver-
*nm13443371 Magia x BadApple
*sm13899777 Magia -japanese cover-
*Magia -slower-
*Magia -piano Youtube arrange-
*Magia -piano tv ver-
*Magia -piano short-
*Magia -Musik Servant remix-
*Magia -crabMixx remix-
*Magia -German by Paperblossom
*Magia -German by EisteinGrooving-
*Magia -amplified-
*Magia -metal-
*Coobie rap
[[User:Prima|Prima]] 18:39, 27 March 2011 (BST)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhvTExrD-jc a niconico preview] - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 23:09, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

== About the OST bundles ==

The Volume 1 that came with the BD, did it only contain the tracks for the respective episodes? --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 15:44, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
:There's Madoka's character song which we can get a hold of but I'm not sure about the legality issue since it's a BD exclusive.
::That's not it. It's just that I'm wondering if I'll have to wait until the respective BD's for the official OST for the other episodes... Personally, I really want that pre-OP music from ep9 (first meeting with Oktavia), the only fan version I could find ([http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14323477?via=thumb_watch]) is short and does not make justice to it's awesomeness :( --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:15, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
:::I don't really follow things song by song but I keep hearing the OST comes with volume 2 so I suppose it should cover it all (I think).
::::Hopefully. And even if it doesn't, I just remembered that same music appears right before Mami gets oomph'd :P --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:24, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
::::That thing which comes with vol2 is "OST volume 1", so there's going to be at least one more part with some later volume. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::Jusr for the record: the music I was talking about was Venari Strigas, and the full version is ever more awesome than the original. Rockon.jpg --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:04, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

== Latin track name translations ==

Went and changed a few things for volume 1's translations:
*'''1) Sis puella magica!''' "Sis" is in the jussive subjunctive, so it should be "you should be", ''not'' "be", which would take the imperative, i.e. "es". A minor difference, I guess. (I initially translated this wrong because I somehow misread "sis" for "sim". Changed all references to my incorrect translation.)
*'''8) Postmeridie''' "Postmeridie" is in the ablative (of time), so it would be better translated as "''in'' the afternoon", instead of simply "afternoon", which would have been "postmeridie'''s'''".
*'''9) Puella in somnio''' "Somnium" means "dream". "Somn'''us'''" (declined to "somno") would have been "sleep". It is also the track playing in episode 1 when Madoka talks to Homura, i.e. the girl from her dream the night before.
*'''12) Scaena felix''' Changed the translation of "felix" from "blessed" to "happy", since it seems to play during Madoka's happy family scenes.
[[User:Jake the Tripfag|Jake the Tripfag]] 20:25, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

== Lyrics ==

Think we can get anyone working on the lyrics? I want to believe that they're more than ominous Latin chanting, and have meaning to them... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:27, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
:That would be nice, but do we have anyone who knows Latin enough to translate it? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 23:23, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
::I mean, I am sure there are people here who do, the question is if are they available (now) to do it...? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 23:24, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
:::It doesn't seem to be latin, though: "Kajiuran is a language in which many of Kajiura Yuki's songs are performed. Apparently, no one except herself can understand the lyrics and a popular assumption is that its purpose is to convey emotion only, at the expence of information." --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 07:49, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

== OST v2 missing tracks ==

No Walpurgis Night theme? No "How many more times will I lose to it?" ? mumi why [[Special:Contributions/92.255.184.162|92.255.184.162]] 06:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
:There is still one more OST for BD 6 where that and other missing songs will most likely appear. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 06:14, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
::Exactly. Stop being paranoid people, there are only 11 tracks left half of which are god tier pieces, no way they're not getting a third pack out.[[Special:Contributions/95.79.50.63|95.79.50.63]] 06:16, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Sorry for being mad. I didn't knew about the third volume[[Special:Contributions/92.255.184.162|92.255.184.162]] 06:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

== OST 3 Tracklist ==

I found a thread on /a/ and apparently someone found the tracklist for OST 3. He didn't post a source and I haven't found any source about OST 3 either.

*01. Numquam vincar (2m07s)
*02. Quamobrem? (1m30s)
*03. Cor destructum (1m27s)
*04. Surgam identidem (3m35s)
*05. Confessio (1m48s)
*06. Sagitta luminis (5m42s)
*07. Nux Walpurgis (2m34s)
*08. Cubilulum album (2m19s)
*09. Taenia memoriae (2m11s)
*10. La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin (2m34s)
*11. Symposium magarum (1m46s)
*12. Pergo pugnare (2m13s)
*13. コネクト -ゲームインストー (1m33s)

Anyone found/know the source? --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 03:01, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:Found the tracklist at [http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=ANZX-9131 CDJapan] so I'm assuming the tracklist is accurate now. --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 09:48, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Added tracklist to page. Leaving the tentative title list here for convenience.
*BGM21 "Reminiscence Theme"
*BGM09c Sis puella magica! (You Should Be a Magical Girl!) -instrumental-
*BGM22 "Disturbance Theme"
*BGM23 "Oktavia's Theme"
*BGM24 "I Won't Trust Anyone Anymore"
*BGM25 "Walpurgis Night"
*BGM26 "How many more times will I lose to it?"
*BGM27 "Madoka the Goddess"
*BGM28 "Space Theme"
*BGM29 "Talk on the Bank"
*BGM30 "Demons Ahead"
*OPb Connect -DDR MIX-
--[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 10:08, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

My guesses:
* Surgam identidem = BGM23 "Oktavia's Theme"
* Confessio = BGM21 "Reminiscence Theme"
* Sagitta luminis = BGM27 "Madoka the Goddess"
* Nux Walpurgis = BGM25 "Walpurgis Night"
* Taenia memoriae = BGM29 "Talk on the Bank"
* Pergo pugnare = BGM30 "Demons Ahead"
I can't decide on the rest...
--[[User:KFYatek|kFYatek]] 16:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

== OST 3 Rips ==
Fresh OST rips from 4chan. [http://www.mediafire.com/?uhbqfb343jpckih here you go] [[User:MochaCoffee|MochaCoffee]] 10:57, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

== Nux Walpurgis ==

The longer version describes Homura's transformation into witch. And it creeps me out. [[Special:Contributions/46.233.204.203|46.233.204.203]] 15:00, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
:Wait, really? I thought it was just Kajiura-speak which nobody knows how to translate. --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 15:48, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
::I mean, the tone of the song. [[Special:Contributions/46.233.199.99|46.233.199.99]] 13:17, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
::The titles are all in Latin, but I think it's clear Homura is Walpurgis from the title, Nux walpurgis roughly translates to the seed of Walpurgis. Surgam Identidem is I shall arise from time to time.
:::No, "Nux" means nut. There would be a completely different word used for "seed." There are examples of poor Latin starting from the very title itself "Puella Magi" and repeated examples of this from the OST track titles. It's far more likely they intended to have "Nox" for night, which is why it's translated here as "Night of Walpurgis" rather than "Nut of Walpurgis." It was already said that Walpurgis reappears repeatedly throughout history, so "Surgam Identidem" isn't really telling us anything new. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 22:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
::::I'll try and mail kajiura, the fact of the matter is it says Nux not nox, Both make sense in context. the point of mentioning surgam identidem was proving that indeed the theme names are appropriate for their appearance in the story.
:::::I think what he's getting at is that if "nux" was the intended word and the intended meaning was "nut", a ''nut'' is also a ''seed''. You plant a walnut, you get a walnut tree.
:::::Also, if indeed "nox" was the intended word, it doesn't necessarily mean "night". "Nox" means something like "poison" or "corruption" in Latin. This is where we get "noxious" from, see here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/noxious ... just throwing this out there, but a witch is the product of the heart's ''poisoning/corruption'' by despair, and I don't know if it would be related but the witch Walpurgis (nearly?) corrupts Madoka's heart with despair.
:::::'''JUST THROWING MORE OUT THERE:''' Walpurgis is the patron saint of people suffering from rabies, which in humans causes anxiety, confusion, agitation, paranoia, terror, hallucinations and more... all things caused by witches. ''Shit's deep.'' [[User:Nalo|Nalo]] 07:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

==Madoka PSP Game==
I assume when the game's music info is released, the detail info will be added to this page. Do we know if they create new tracks for this game? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 01:11, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
:We don't know and yes if new, pertinent information is released, it will be added. Game music just isn't a high-profile topic so I'd actually be surprised to hear anything about it prior to the game being released. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

::There is an OST in the BD bundled with limited contract of this game. I don't know if the DVD coming with normal contract also contains this. --[[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 23:25, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Looks like many tracks from the PSP OST are reused for Battle Pentagram. Probably something worth highlighting in the main page. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 19:38, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Puella Magi Madoka Magica Portable OST Menu.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Sound track in BD.]]
{| class="wikitable"
|-
|-
| Track
| Song Name
|-
| 1
| Spes - Materia Madocae - (Hope - The matter of Madoka)
|-
| 2
| Justitia - Materia Sayakae - (Justice - The matter of Sayaka)
|-
| 3
| Fides - Materia Mami - (Faith - The matter of Mami)
|-
| 4
| Prex - Materia Kyokoensis - (Prayer - The Matter of Kyoko)
|-
| 5
| Tutela - Materia Homurae - (Teaching - The matter of Homura)
|-
| 6
| Feliciter (Luckily)
|-
| 7
| Incipit in prece (It comes in prayer)
|-
| 8
| Vox maternae (Voice of the Mother)
|-
| 9
| Victoria (victory)
|-
| 10
| Ubi eam? (Where should I go?)
|-
| 11
| Quod id est? (What is it?)
|-
| 12
| Obstans (Obstructing)
|-
| 13
| Semen doloris (Grief Seed)
|-
| 14
| Inquietam (I should trouble)
|-
| 15
| Solitudo mea (My loneliness)
|-
| 16
| Non sola sum (I am not alone)
|-
| 17
| Para, ite! (Prepare, Go!)
|-
| 18
| Non fieri possum (I cannot happen)
|-
| 19
| Numquam mitescam (I will never soften)
|-
| 20
| Cum quoqumque modo (Whatever it takes)
|-
| 21
| Forma tumultuosi somnii (The shapes of tumultuous sleep)
|-
| 22
| Adhaesus deformis (
|-
| 23
| Clientes saluant (They save those who rely upon them)
|-
| 24
| Natalis puellae magicae (The birth of a magical girl)
|-
| 25
| Exitus desperationis (The end of despair)
|-
| 26
| Via ad scholam (The road to school)
|-
| 27
| Valetudinarium (Saying Goodbye)
|-
| 28
| Domus meus (My house)
|-
| 29
| Hora theae (The hour of the goddess)
|-
| 30
| Cubiculum coniecturae (Bedroom of conjecture)
|-
| 31
| Veni, ven (I came, ven (not a latin word))
|-
| 32
| Diffidentia floret (May mistrust flourish)
|-
| 33
| Area infinita (Infinite space)
|-
| 34
| Dolus vel pedica (Grief or a trap)
|-
| 35
| Experimenta ultima (The final experiment)
|-
| 36
| Area strigae (The place of a hag (i.e. a witch))
|-
| 37
| Delusio summa (The highest delusion)
|-
| 38
| Terror infinitus (Unending terror)
|-
| 39
| Dolus vel lascivia (Pain or lust)
|-
| 40
| Finit in maledicto (It ends in cursing)
|-
| 41
| Finis malus (An evil end)
|-
| 42
| Felix vera (True happiness)
|-
|}

==Unreleased track from Ep 7==
Does anyone know where to find a copy online? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:18, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
: Unreleased implies, you know, not being released.
::I know that, but I was hoping someone had managed to strip it from the episode or get their hands on a leaked master copy. No such luck, apparently. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:54, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

==Madoka Magica Gets Free Concert with Full Orchestra==
[http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-08-13/madoka-magica-gets-free-concert-with-full-orchestra "Walpurgis Night's Dream" asking 70 musicians to make a contract for next April]

<i>A full orchestra will play the music of the Puella Magi Madoka Magica anime in a free live concert in Tokyo's Hachiko district on April 6. "Walpurgis Night's Dream" will be a concert by fan for fans — 70 amateur musicians who happen to be Madoka Magica fans will perform.

The concert's organizers, Die Walpurgisnacht Symphoniker (The Walpurgis Night's Symphony Orchestra), are asking for people willing to "make a contract" to perform. The event will feature 15 pieces from the anime's soundtrack, under the guidelines set out by the creators at Nitroplus for derivative works.</i>

==Movie OST==
収録曲

01. encounter

02. warning #1

03. warning #2

04. odd world #1

05. odd world #2

06. no more fear

07. wo ist die Kase?

08. short action

09. fateful #1

10. something unusual

11. crises happening

12. witch world #1

13. odd world #3

14. wicked

15. a human bullet

16. mother and daughter

17. touch-and-go

18. fateful #2

19. she has a past

20. she has a heart

21. complicated mind

22. wounded feeling

23. witch world #2

24. collapse

25. fateful #3

26. deep in grief

27. threatening

28. she is a witch

29. fateful #4

30. facing the truth #1

31. I'll be with you

32. I miss you

33. time-manipulation

34. facing the truth #2

35. her wings

36. rebirth

37. for the next episode

: Movie track breakdown sources
* http://www22.atwiki.jp/madoka-magica/pages/164.html
* http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2475874739?pn=2

2ch版BGM表

（M101表示前篇1号BGM，M201表示后篇1号BGM，以此类推）

[前编] 始まりの物语

---TV版01话相当---

M101 0:00:59-0:02:20 I.12. Scaena felix

M102 0:03:04-0:04:43 『ルミナス -movie MIX-』 ※オープニング

M103 0:04:45-0:06:03 I.08. Postmeridie

M104 0:06:58-0:07:47 I.07. Conturbatio

M105 0:09:47-0:10:34 I.09. Puella in somnio

M106 0:10:41-0:12:26 I.06. Desiderium

M107 0:12:34-0:12:42 『ルミナス』 ※剧中曲

M108 0:12:55-0:14:21 I.03. Gradus prohibitus

M109 0:14:37-0:15:20 I.03. Gradus prohibitus

M110 0:15:27-0:16:05 IV.01. encounter

M111 0:16:43-0:17:40 I.04. Credens justitiam

---TV版02话相当---

M112 0:19:05-0:22:30 I.01. Sis puella magica!

M113 0:23:24-0:23:54 II.11. Vocalise Op.34 no.14 ※剧中曲

M114 0:25:17-0:26:18 IV.02. warning #1

M115 0:26:29-0:27:13 I.02. Salve, terrae magicae

M116 0:27:29-0:28:54 I.13. Pugna cum maga

M117 0:29:34-0:30:30 II.03. Venari strigas

M118 0:30:30-0:32:13 『Magia[quattro] ~instrumental~』

M119 0:33:42-0:34:34 I.05. Clementia

---TV版03话相当---

M120 0:35:46-0:36:42 IV.03. warning #2

M121 0:37:08-0:38:29 II.02. Agmen clientum

M122 0:38:30-0:39:02 IV.04. odd world #1

M123 0:39:53-0:40:56 IV.05. odd world #2

M124 0:41:46-0:44:11 II.05. Amicae carae meae

M125 0:44:26-0:45:30 『未来』

M126 0:45:40-0:46:22 IV.07. wo ist die K"ase?

M127 0:46:53-0:47:33 IV.08. short action

M128 0:47:52-0:48:56 II.04. Signum malum

---TV版04话相当---

M129 0:49:30-0:52:13 II.06. Incertus

M130 0:52:25-0:52:54 III.02. Quamobrem?

M131 0:53:29-0:56:05 IV.09. fateful #1

M132 0:56:30-0:58:25 II.08. Serena ira

M133 0:59:01-1:00:24 IV.10. something unusual

M134 1:00:25-1:01:30 IV.11. crises happening

M135 1:01:44-1:03:11 IV.12. witch world #1

---TV版05话相当---

M136 1:04:07-1:06:26 II.01. Decretum

M137 1:07:19-1:08:48 I.07. Conturbatio

M138 1:08:56-1:10:07 II.12. Ave Maria ※剧中曲

M139 1:10:07-1:11:05 II.09. Anima mala

M140 1:12:53-1:13:47 IV.13. odd world #3

M141 1:14:21-1:15:37 IV.14. wicked

M142 1:16:25-1:18:04 IV.15. a human bullet

---TV版06话相当---

M143 1:20:26-1:21:46 III.13. コネクト -ゲームインスト- ※剧中曲

M144 1:22:12-1:24:47 IV.16. mother and daughter

M145 1:25:14-1:25:29 III.10. La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin ※剧中曲

M146 1:25:31-1:26:57 I.10. Umbra nigra

M147 1:27:17-1:28:38 IV.17. touch-and-go

M148 1:29:00-1:31:33 I.11. Terror adhaerens

---TV版07话相当---

M149 1:32:08-1:34:25 II.07. Inevitabilis

M150 1:34:33-1:36:17 IV.18. fateful #2

M151 1:37:40-1:38:58 III.05. Confessio

M152 1:38:58-1:40:38 IV.19. she has a past

M153 1:41:21-1:43:18 IV.20. she has a heart

M154 1:43:58-1:44:34 IV.21. complicated mind

M155 1:45:38-1:46:14 III.03. Cor destructum

M156 1:46:22-1:47:50 IV.22. wounded feeling

M157 1:48:44-1:50:50 IV.23. witch world #2

---TV版08话相当---

M158 1:56:42-1:57:20 IV.24. collapse

M159 1:58:53-2:00:48 IV.25. fateful #3

M160 2:01:11-2:02:13 IV.26. deep in grief

M161 2:02:59-2:03:33 IV.27. threatening

M162 2:04:12-2:05:32 IV.28. she is a witch

M163 2:05:49-2:10:58 Magia[quattro] ※エンディング

[后编] 永远の物语

---TV版09话相当---

M201 0:01:10-0:02:28 IV.28. she is a witch

M202 0:02:29-0:03:55 II.03. Venari strigas

M203 0:04:09-0:05:48 『ルミナス -movie MIX-』 ※オープニング

M204 0:07:00-0:08:25 IV.29. fateful #4

M205 0:09:41-0:12:46 IV.30. facing the truth #1

M206 0:14:16-0:15:18 I.07. Conturbatio

M207 0:15:49-0:17:40 II.06. Incertus

M208 0:17:54-0:19:45 I.03. Gradus prohibitus

M209 0:21:32-0:25:08 III.11. Symposium magarum

M210 0:25:35-0:26:48 IV.31. I'll be with you

M211 0:27:03-0:30:00 IV.32. I miss you

---TV版10话相当---

M212 0:30:14-0:30:45 I.12. Scaena felix

M213 0:31:42-0:33:53 I.08. Postmeridie

M214 0:34:12-0:35:03 I.10. Umbra nigra

M215 0:35:29-0:36:12 I.04. Credens justitiam

M216 0:37:01-0:40:11 I.01. Sis puella magica!

M217 0:41:00-0:42:45 I.02. Salve, terrae magicae

M218 0:44:38-0:45:49 I.13. Pugna cum maga

M219 0:46:53-0:49:19 II.04. Signum malum

M220 0:49:58-0:50:41 III.01. Numquam vincar

M221 0:51:04-0:52:45 『Magia[quattro]』

M222 0:53:56-0:54:56 I.09. Puella in somnio

M223 0:54:67-0:56:27 『コネクト』 ※歌い方がTV版と异なる

---TV版11话相当---

M224 0:56:39-0:58:38 IV.33. time-manipulation

M225 0:58:48-0:59:39 II.08. Serena ira

M226 1:00:25-1:02:30 IV.34. facing the truth #2

M227 1:04:01-1:05:33 III.05. Confessio

M228 1:05:48-1:07:15 II.09. Anima mala

M229 1:07:38-1:09:17 II.07. Inevitabilis

M230 1:11:03-1:13:11 III.04. Surgam identidem

M231 1:13:32-1:14:49 I.11. Terror adhaerens

M232 1:15:37-1:17:00 I.05. Clementia

M233 1:17:04-1:18:34 III.04. Surgam identidem

---TV版12话相当---

M234 1:19:17-1:21:42 II.01. Decretum

M235 1:21:54-1:25:50 III.06. Sagitta luminis

M236 1:26:50-1:28:37 III.08. Cubilulum album

M237 1:29:51-1:32:30 IV.35. her wings

M238 1:32:42-1:33:44 IV.36. rebirth

M239 1:34:04-1:35:55 II.12. Ave Maria ※剧中曲

M240 1:37:14-1:39:15 III.09. Taenia memoriae

M241 1:39:34-1:41:49 III.12. Pergo pugnare

M242 1:41:52-1:43:23 『コネクト -Orchestra ver.- (short EDIT)』

M243 1:44:34-1:49:22 『ひかりふる』 ※エンディング

M244 1:49:29-1:50:46 IV.37. for the next episode -[[User:Prima|Prima]] 07:56, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

: Formatted for the wiki, notes: these tracks were not used in the movie: Movie #06 no more fear; OST3 #07 Nux Walpurgis; OST2 #10 Pugna infinita. Only Magia tracks used were versions from Hikari Furu single instead of the original Magia single. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:46, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
*[http://www.mediafire.com/download/mksa2qwlax9h00p/Madoka_Movie_Tracklist.m3u Madoka Movie Tracklist.m3u ]--[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:39, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

==ClariS - Puella Magi Madoka Magica Hajimari no Monogatari Eien no Monogatari OP - Luminous (Luminous / ClariS [Limited Edition])==
ALBUM INFORMATION:

Original Name: ルミナス」／ClariS

Artists: ClariS

Composers: Watanabe Shou, Kadono Toshikazu, Shigenaga Ryousuke

Arrangers: Yuasa Atsushi, Kadono Toshikazu, Shigenaga Ryousuke

Release Date: October 10, 2012

Track list:

01 Luminous

02 Friends

03 blossom

04 Luminous -movie MIX-

05 Connect -Orchestra ver.- (short EDIT)

==Kalafina - Madomagi The Movie Gohen Shudaika OP - Hikari Furu (Hikari Furu / Kalafina)==
ALBUM INFORMATION:

Original Name: ひかりふる

Artists: Kalafina

Composers: Kajiura Yuki

Arrangers: Kajiura Yuki

Release Date: Oct 24, 2012

Published By: SME Records

Track list:

01 Hikari Furu

02 Mirai

03 Magia[quattro]

04 Hikari Furu (instrumental)

==Tentative Rebellion Story tracklist==

I'm making a tentative tracklist for the Rebellion Story from one of the camrips I found online. Of course, the names of the tracks (aside from those that have already been released) will be tentative. Should I put the tentative tracklist up when I am finished making it? [[User:AntMan9751|AntMan9751]] 23:31, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

:I finished the tentative tracklist. There may be a few errors in the times, but I estimated them to the best of my ability:

{| class="wikitable sortable mw-collapsible" width="100%"
|+ '''[[The Rebellion Story]]'''
! width="100" | Start
! width="100" | End
! width="100" | Track number
! scope="col" | Tentative Track Name
|-
| 0:00:19 || 0:01:22 || "BGM #1" || "Prologue #1" (Tentative title)<br />"The Law of Cycles"
|-
| 0:01:29 || 0:03:32 || "BGM #48" || "Nightmare world" (Tentative title)<br /> "Nightmare Ballet"
|-
| 0:03:46 || 0:04:36 || "BGM #6.2" || "I Dream of Dawn" (Tentative title)<br /> "Not yet (まだだめよ)"
|-
| 0:04:53 || 0:06:47 || Vol1 #12 || Scaena felix
|-
| 0:07:33 || 0:09:06 || Colorful || Colorful -movie MIX-
|-
| 0:09:07 || 0:10:26 || Vol1 #08 || Postmeridie
|-
| 0:10:37 || 0:11:27 || "BGM #2" || "Strange class" (Tentative title)<br /> "The Coming Apocalypse"
|-
| 0:12:17 || 0:13:23 || "BGM #3" || "Transfer student" (Tentative title)
|-
| 0:13:36 || 0:14:26 || "BGM #4" || "Month of dawn" (Tentative title)<br /> "In the Garden of Red Clovers"
|-
| 0:16:22 || 0:16:47 || "BGM #5" || "Hitomi's nightmare" (Tentative title)<br />"No More Sundays"
|-
| 0:17:33 || 0:17:55 || "BGM #6" || "Odd world #4" (Tentative title)<br /> "Nightmare on the Horizon"
|-
| 0:18:38 || 0:21:17 || "BGM #7/8" || "Puella Magi Holy Quintet" (Tentative title)
|-
| 0:21:58 || 0:23:16 || "BGM #9/10" || "No more fear #2" (Tentative title)<br /> "Tiro Duet"
|-
| 0:23:20 || 0:24:53 || "BGM #11" || "Cake Song" (Tentative title)<br /> "Who is the Round Cake? (まるいケーキはだれ？)"
|-
| 0:25:21 || 0:26:19 || "BGM #12" || "Pergo pugnare #2" (Tentative title)<br /> "Reverie"
|-
| 0:27:01 || 0:27:46 || "BGM #13" || "Sunrise" (Tentative title)
|-
| 0:28:37 || 0:30:08 || "BGM #14" || "Faceless #1" (Tentative title)<br/ > "Alone"
|-
| 0:30:33 || 0:33:09 || "BGM #16" || "Differences" (Tentative title) <br />
|-
| 0:33:20 || 0:34:40 || "BGM #17" || "Bus ride #1" (Tentative title) <br /> "Veni, Vidi, Mitakihara"
|-
| 0:35:14 || 0:36:16 || "BGM #18" || "Bus ride #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Stop Requested"
|-
| 0:36:45 || 0:39:11 || "BGM #19" || "To Kazamino City" (Tentative title) <br/ > "On Foot"
|-
| 0:39:19 || 0:39:51 || "BGM #20" || "Puella in somnio #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Truth Revealed"
|-
| 0:40:03 || 0:41:32 || "BGM #21" || "Facing the truth #3" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Her Sacrifice"
|-
| 0:42:09 || 0:44:27 || "BGM #22" || "Faceless #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Tea"
|-
| 0:44:55 || 0:46:55 || "BGM #23" || "Witch interference" (Tentative title) <br/ > "The Interrogator"
|-
| 0:47:21 || 0:48:25 || "BGM #24" || "Gun fight #1" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Bullet Time"
|-
| 0:48:34 || 0:51:06 || "BGM #25" || "Gun fight #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Victory"
|-
| 0:52:13 || 0:53:56 || [Track Missing?] || "Mercy" (Tentative title) <br/ >
|-
| 0:55:35 || 0:57:19 || "BGM #26" || "In the witch's barrier" (Tentative title) <br/ > "At Crossroads"
|-
| 0:57:51 || 0:59:09 || "BGM #27" || "For the next episode #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "For this episode"
|-
| 0:59:14 || 1:00:11 || "BGM #30" || "Short action #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Spectre of the Past"
|-
| 1:00:17 || 1:02:03 || "BGM #28" || "Prologue #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "The Fake City" <br /> The Rebellion Story Main Theme
|-
| 1:02:36 || 1:07:21 || [Track Missing] || "Sagitta luminis #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "In the Garden of White Clovers"
|-
| 1:07:33 || 1:08:06 || Vol3 #13 || Connect ~Game Instrumental~
|-
| 1:08:07 || 1:09:21 || "BGM #31" || "Warning #3" (Tentative title) <br/ > "She"
|-
| 1:10:20 || 1:12:10 || "BGM #32" || "She is a witch #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Midnight"
|-
| 1:12:20 || 1:13:08 || "BGM #33" || "Fateful #5" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Human Curiosity"
|-
| 1:13:11 || 1:14:48 || [Track Missing] || "Incubation #1" (Tentative title) <br/ > "The Experiment"
|-
| 1:15:06 || 1:17:07 || "BGM #35" || "Incubation #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "The Observation"
|-
| 1:17:08 || 1:17:59 || "BGM #34" || "Birth of a witch" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Clara"
|-
| 1:18:27 || 1:19:47 || "BGM #36" || "Extermination" (Tentative title) <br /> "The White Rat"
|-
| 1:19:55 || 1:21:45 || "BGM #37" || "Grief consumption" (Tentative title) <br /> "The Worst End"
|-
| 1:21:52 || 1:23:37 || "BGM #38" || "She is a witch #3" (Tentative title) <br /> "Radiance"
|-
| 1:23:55 || 1:24:34 || "BGM #39" || "Nutcracker witch" (Tentative title) <br /> "Death March"
|-
| 1:25:22 || 1:27:36 || "BGM #49" || <b>"We're here for you"</b><br /> "For the next episode #3" (Tentative title) <br /> "For the last episode"
|-
| 1:27:42 || 1:31:15 || Kimi no Gin no Niwa || misterioso
|-
| 1:31:40 || 1:33:22 || "BGM #40" || "Eternal feminine" (Tentative title) <br /> "Das Ewig-Weibliche"
|-
| 1:33:33 || 1:35:21 || "BGM #41" || "The Law of Cycles" (Tentative title) <br /> "Una Paenitentium"
|-
| 1:35:45 || 1:37:25 || "BGM #42" || "Overthrow" (Tentative title) <br /> "The Fall"
|-
| 1:37:53 || 1:39:06 || [Track Missing] || "Cubilulum album #2" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Dark Orb"
|-
| 1:39:07 || 1:41:40 || "BGM #43" || "Demon" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Love"
|-
| 1:42:22 || 1:43:54 || "BGM #43/45" || "Rewritten world" (Tentative title) <br /> "Broken Record"
|-
| 1:45:06 || 1:45:43 || "BGM #46" || "Postmeridie #2" (Tentative title) <br /> "Transfer Student Revisited"
|-
| 1:46:31 || 1:48:14 || "BGM #47" || "Goddess and demon" (Tentative title) <br /> "Nostalgia" <br /> "Heinrike und Gretchen"
|-
| 1:49:13 || 1:49:51 || "BGM #44" || "Who is dreaming?" (Tentative title) <br /> "Wer träumt?"
|-
| 1:49:52 || 1:54:52 || Kimi no Gin no Niwa || Kimi no Gin no Niwa
|-
| 1:55:02 || 1:55:57 || "BGM #15" || "End of rebellion" (Tentative title) <br/ > "Disconnect"
|-
|}

[[User:AntMan9751|AntMan9751]] 18:51, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
:Oooh, nice. How long does it normally take for soundtracks to come out? --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:05, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
::The soundtrack for the first two movies was bundled with the movies. My guess is that the Rebellion Story's soundtrack will be bundled with the DVD/Blu-ray release of the movie, which will probably be next summer. Until then, should the tentative tracklist be put on the soundtrack page or should it remain on the talk page only? [[User:AntMan9751|AntMan9751]] 20:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
:::The ''fan titles'' column of the tv OST was a legacy from way back, when this page was first created before the tv OST got released. Given that precedent, I see no problem in copying over your research to the main page. <br /> The honor is all yours. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 22:34, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
:::'''PS''' Keep in mind that, technically, we do not link to anything that infringing on actual wiki pages. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 22:34, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
::::I'm sure the "For the next episode #3" is "We're here for you", it's included in Madoka Xperia phone. - [[User:Arkeid|Arkeid]] 23:41, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::Could you provide a link to hear the song if you have one? Nothing comes up on Google when I search for Madoka Xperia. [[User:AntMan9751|AntMan9751]] 23:53, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::Actually, nevermind that, I found a link. Should I change "For the next episode #3" to "We're here for you"? [[User:AntMan9751|AntMan9751]] 00:00, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
[[File:Madoka Sony Walkman NW-F805.jpg|thumb|left]]
::::::Yes. We should always default to the official terms when possible. The co-branded item [[User:Arkeid|Arkeid]] mention is the Madoka Sony Walkman NW-F805 music player though, not a Xperia. [http://www.mediafire.com/download/vjw4cjm7fhdfs39/ FLAC here] - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 00:40, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Moderately adjusted some numbers to match our current only reference point, [http://www.mediafire.com/download/bbb663ihbpy7if5/PMMM+Rebellion+OST+.rar here]. Also added my own fan names because one person can't have all the fun, you know? [[User:Lyra|Lyra]] 00:47, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::: For some reason I always remember it's an Xperia phone... - [[User:Arkeid|Arkeid]] 00:49, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::::Lyra, I like those fan names you came up with! Just out of curiosity, what is the reference point that you used to adjust the track numbers? -[[User:AntMan9751|AntMan9751]] 02:09, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Please refer to the link in the original comment. The track numbers will be adjusted once the missing tracks are located and added as well as the previous tracks reordered in some way, shape or form. [[User:Lyra|Lyra]] 05:11, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

==Sales==
<gallery>
File:1387318479641.png
File:1387319592906.jpg
</gallery>
2013 Anime Single Sales Chart

2012/12/11~2013/12/09 (Oricon)

#10 Colorful / ClariS / Madoka: Rebellion OP

#13 Kimi no Gin no Niwa / Kalafina / Madoka: Rebellion ED

* 3rd year in a row that a Madoka OP ranked in the yearly top-10.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22428200

Kimi no Gin no Niwa ranks #13 for the year with 54,824 units sold. Both are top-selling records for their respective artists, congratulations!

==Rebellion OST==
<gallery>
File:Rebellion CD 001.jpg
File:Rebellion CD 002.jpg
File:Rebellion CD 004.jpg
</gallery>

== Rebellion Music Theory ==

Japanese analysis of the Rebellion OST:

* http://ozakikazuyuki.com/journal/index.php/「劇場版_魔法少女まどか☆マギカ［新編］叛逆の物語」劇中楽曲の分析

- [[User:Prima|Prima]] 07:17, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Madoka Magica Soundtrack

2012-03-18T04:18:36Z

Magic9mushroom:

Elsa Maria

2011-09-22T12:10:06Z

Magic9mushroom: crack

__NOTOC__
'''Elsa Maria''' ({{Runes|ELSAMARIA}}) is a [[witch]] who battles [[Sayaka]] at the end of [[Episode 7]]. Her [[barrier]] is full of dark shadows with a white background. Her symbolism includes Christian crosses, and the terrain forms a large arm holding either a torch or a monstrance. Elsa Maria appears to be praying before this object when Sayaka engages her. She fights with fanged snake-like minions and tree branches that extend from her body.

{{Card
|name = Elsa Maria
|runes = ELSA MARIA
|image = File:Card Elsa Maria.png
|japanese_desc = 影の魔女。その性質は独善。全ての生命のために祈り続ける魔女。祈りの姿勢を崩さぬまま、その影の中へとあらゆる命を平等に引きずり込む。この魔女を倒したくば、黒色の苦痛を知らなくてはならない。
|english_desc = The witch of shadow with a self-righteous nature. She continually prays for all of creation and drags all life equally into her shadow without breaking her posture. One hoping to defeat her must know the blackest anguish.
|type = Shadow witch
|nature = Self-righteousness
|episodes = [[Episode 7]]
}}

== Minions ==
{{Card
|name = Sebastian's
|runes = SEBASTIAN'S
|image = File:Card Sebastian.png
|japanese_desc = 影の魔女の手下。その役割は妄信。影の魔女によって平等に救われてしまった命達の集合体。彼らは同胞を求めている。
|english_desc = The shadow witch's minions, whose duty is to blindly believe. They are an aggregate of the lives who have found salvation thanks to the shadow witch. They continually seek out companions.
|type = Shadow witch's minions
|task = Blind belief
|episodes = [[Episode 7]]
}}

==Speculations==
*Possibly a reference to the song Ave Maria which [[Kyousuke Kamijou]] is know to play.
*It could also be a reference to Jeanne d'Arc, another magical girl (as shown in episode 12.) Jeanne said she was hearing the voices of saints, angels and God, and prayed very often.
*The praying stance she has and the shadows that form her world lead some fans to think Elsa Maria is a referance to the game 'Limbo' in which a young girl is seen praying (or kneeling at least) at two points in the game. The protagonist searches for her since she is his missing/dead sister.

==Gallery==

===Official Art===
<gallery position="center" captionalign="left">
File:ElsaMaria_manga_version.jpg|Elsa Maria in manga
</gallery>

===Screenshots===
<gallery position="center" captionalign="left">
File:Elsamaria-runes.jpg|Runes circling the left and right sides of the screen reveal Elsa Maria's name.
File:Elsa maria rune bd.jpg|The same scene on BD version.
File:Elsamaria_whole_image.jpg|Combined images of Elsa Maria's labyrinth.
File:Elsamaria-grief-seed.PNG|Elsa Maria's grief seed.
File:Elsa maria statue.jpg|Elsa Maria's labyrinth, outside view on BD version.
</gallery>

===Miscellaneous comparisons===
<gallery position="center" captionalign="left">
File:Elsamaria.PNG|Elsa Maria in her barrier.
File:Monstrace.png|A monstrance side by side with the witch's object.
File:Statue of Liberty.png|The Statue of Liberty's torch side by side with the witch's object.
File:Ep7witchandflashback.jpg|Shared symbolism raises the possibility that Elsa Maria might be [[Kyouko Sakura]]'s sister.
</gallery>

==Fanart==
{{fanart}}
<gallery>
File:Elsa maria fanart human witch praying shadows.jpg
</gallery>

==External links==
*{{card_link|id=15}}
*{{card_link|id=16|name=Sebastian's}}

[[Category:Witches]]

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-18T05:20:01Z

Magic9mushroom:

This game just taught me something: I'd be a terrible magical girl. That's good to know, at least now I know I shouldn't contract Kyubey if I ever get the chance to... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, the endings for this game make me feel terribly empty inside. It's like how I felt after episode 6 and onwards. Mami, the only one surviving, eating cake alone. Kyouko by herself, chewing an apple. Dammit. At least I felt happy when I killed Charlotte with Mami. Sayaka in the show did much better than me on the hikki TV level. [[User:Holycrap|Holycrap]] 09:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone know what the requirement is for getting the 2nd last picture in the gallery? [[Special:Contributions/220.255.1.48|220.255.1.48]] 02:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:If only Madoka and Sayaka die. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

==Problem here==
I've downloaded the files and everything. However, it is on a .rar file, and I really don't know how it operates. Suggestions?
:It's a compressed file, works just like a .zip. Open it with WinRAR or a similar program. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 03:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I don't have WinRAR on my Windows 7. Do you know of an alternative instead? I am sorry if I am acting as a noob. :(
:::Get WinRAR or 7zip. You'll need it to unzip it. Nothing else but to get the program. [[Special:Contributions/128.54.205.243|128.54.205.243]] 16:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Once I unzip, I will be able to play? Edit: I unzipped the files, but there seems to be something missing. It won't let me play, and I downloaded the appropriate .dll file. http://i51.tinypic.com/juwfvr.png
:Go to start and run "dxdiag". Then go the "Display" tab. Below there should be three options. "DirectDraw,Direct3D and AGP Texture Acceleration. Make sure that they are all enabled. The message you received means that your "Direct3D" is either not available or disabled. Enable all of them and you should be able to play. :D --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Stat box ==

Can one of our wikicode magicians make a stat box for the mahou shoujo sections? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Shamelessly copypasting the infobox for characters, I suggest you one of the two variants below. I personally perfer the first (vertical) one. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::I actually thinks the second version look better. Also, it's shorter length means less blank toolbox only space on the thread. Can we get another opinion on this one? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 20:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Actually, the only thing that bugs me with the horizontal version is that I don't know how to label the columns, especially the last one ... "Growth per level" is a bit too long, "Per level", "growth per lvl" or "growth/level" don't look or sound to good... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I think per level looks fine, it's similar to how we do in [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine another wiki] that I help out on. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::I added the info boxes. They look pretty awesome. Thanks for providing the template, Homerun-chan.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="2" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=92
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=10
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=28875
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=SL lost in revive
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=9.6%
}}<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Growth per level</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+4
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+1
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+128
}}</table>

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

{{-}}

==help!==

i tried to download it but i can't find where on the page the download thingy is, i clicked on everything and no dice [[User:Paige|Paige]] 15:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

:Check the latest thread here http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Threads#Grief_Syndrome
:i can't make sense of that site either, no handy screen shots or can't you download it on the grief syndrome site? am i the only person having problems with it? *sigh* [[User:Paige|Paige]] 20:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::You can't figure out how to download it from here? http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53407713 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 20:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::>can't you download it on the grief syndrome site?<br>It's a game that got released (read "sold") at Comiket, so it's not really meant to be distributed for free. You should be able to find it if you know where to look or how to use Google though (or easymodo for that matter). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Umm,I wanted to download the file but,I can't find the download link, did someone tell me where is the download link? Please help me. --[[Mirai-mirai]] 18:39, 3 september 2011
:Use the megaupload link on this thread posted. http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53382856 --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 18:45, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Are I really need gamepads for play this game? For single player too? Can I play this game with only keyboards? --[[Mirai-mirai]] 15.27, 4 September 2011
:No. Keyboards can be used to play this game. The controls shoulb be on the main page of this game here in the wiki. If the controls does not work,open Config and configure your controls . --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:37, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I am really confused on how to change the BGM. I've tried a whole bunch of times, but I can't figure it out. I noticed it is in the FAQ section. --[[User:Ploppypop|Ploppypop]] 8:19pm, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

==Moemura?!==
[[File:Moemura grief syndrome.jpg|right|300px]]
Anyone know how to get her? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:It's a drawing from 2ch, it's not real. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
::Being a fan is suffering --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, that's NOT a drawing. That image (and the relevant sprites) indeed can be found in the game's resources. Conditions of obtaining Moe-Homura are unknown yet, sorry. [[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 11:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm pretty sure from the context I saw it in that the image was in fact a fan altered one from a real image. However, I didn't know that they pulled the Moemura image from the game files so that it could this screen could be real if conditions were met assuming the game allows it. You'd think if someone had figured it out by now there'd be a vid or gameplay images with Moemura by now. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Likely it's a dropped character. It's commonplace for game developers to leave unused artifacts within the games. If there is a way to unlock it, though, it would be good. Let's not forget that they can also implement it in the future. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Now that I gained access to the game ressources, I can confirm that:
::::::a-The "Moe"mura image is indeed part of the game files.
::::::b-There is no additional gameplay sprites for "Moe"mura.
::::::However the "Moe"mura image shown on this screenshot (M_homura_B.cv2) is referenced in 2 scripts: StagePause.act and StageSelect.act. So if it's not leftover artefacts (but imo BrickBreak is right on this) you can expect at best a menu image change, and perhaps some stats change too, nothing more.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 20:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I heard that they released a patch to enable Moemura. But since I am outside Japan and unable to get access to their website, I cannot confirm that. Besides, QB may be controlled after the patch if there are fewer characters alive in multi-play mode. For example, if there are 3 players but only 2 available, the 3rd player can select one of other characters but will be replaced by QB in game. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:You are indeed correct. I'm trying out the patch now and to play as Moemura you press up while your cursor is on Homura's portrait. Pretty amusing. Press down on Moemura to switch back to Homura. Haven't checked out QB yet. Pretty cool update, though. Hopefully they've fixed the bugs in the game, too. Thanks for the info! [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 20:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== All endings ==

So as I see, someone aded thelast unknown trophy.
What are the endings known this far and how can they be obtained?
[[Special:Contributions/91.202.255.7|91.202.255.7]] 05:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

:I added an endings section to the main page that includes known endings and conditions. This doesn't seem to be all of them, though, since I believe I've gotten all mentioned and haven't yet gotten the trophy. Anyone know of other endings? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

All the 1 person surviving and 4 people surviving endings have been confirmed except for only Madoka surviving, but I feel like odds are good that that will end up with the default Homura ending. If anyone else could check some of these out, too, that'd be great.
[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Only Madoka surviving is confirmed to give you the Homura waking up in bed ending. (Oktavia not killed, but I don't think that matters).[[User:KM|KM]] 23:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks for checking that. I don't think it matters if Oktavia is killed or not, either, as long as you get Oktavia because Sayaka died.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 06:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, all ending possibilities have been checked. And after having checked them all I didn't get the third trophy, so that seems incorrect. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: So you've checked all 32 possibilities (I believe mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht is possible), and you don't have the third trophy? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I checked every single possibility except only Madoka surviving ending, which KM checked. I still don't have the third trophy, sadly. I didn't check a mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht, but I don't think that would result in a different ending... I'm starting to think that my original guess that the third trophy is "Beat the game without getting hit" might be correct after all. The ordering of the trophies have been such that a silver trophy will be awarded for a given condition and the trophy below will be a gold one with a condition similar but more difficult than the one preceding it. The second trophy is beat the game without any downs, so I think not getting hit is a logical possibility. Not getting hit even once is really difficult, though, due to the random nature that the enemies in the game attack. But if this is the correct condition, then maybe that explains why it hasn't been confirmed yet. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::I've took a peek at the game resources again and translated the third trophy for ya. It seems there's a bug in Tasofro's bytecode, so the flag for this trophy never sets. Instead of marking it as "???", I suggest to write a notice "Unobtainable due to a bug". --[[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 21:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Well that... sucks... Thanks for the info, though. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
::::I think we do need to check "everyone dies", since as THE hardest ending to obtain it would be the most likely to have a secret (as for how to do it, I'd suggest kill everyone else, do WPGN with Madoka, get both of them to low health, do Madoka's ulti and then jump off the map). As far as not getting hit, the hardest bit would be Kirsten's stage. Everything else can be done without getting hit through overuse of time stop, but Kirsten's minions love to attack from offscreen. I'd suggest grinding Homura to 99 on Gertrud's or Charlotte's stage (Gertrud's stage is more dangerous, but Charlotte herself is more dangerous with her sky attack) before taking on Kirsten to secure additional time stop uses. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::I've actually tried to die by falling off the screen after killing Walpurgisnacht before, just to see what would happen. You don't die, you just kind of chill out at the bottom of the screen waiting for Walpurgisnacht to die and then you fall and land on the ground like usual. I've also checked if everyone dies and it results, predictably, in a game over. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::: That wasn't what I meant. I meant falling off the screen or otherwise dying before the last attack hits. So with Homura, for example, setting up a flare and getting shot before it fires. Madoka would be the easiest with her ulti's stupidly high damage. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Hey so the version 1.10 patch came out today and it fixed the glitch with the third trophy not appearing. The 10 endings listed in the ending section are confirmed to be the only endings as I now have the trophy without having beaten the game again. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Laps not saved ==

Well, I completed the first lap, and utterly failed on the second (was trying to go with Mami, let everyone else die, didn't farmed enough lv's to make up for her crappyness). Back to the main menu, still with the stats and the choice of which lap to with. I close the game, and open it again just to be sure. Everything's gone. Wasn't it supposed to save after a lap? --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Look for a save0.dat file in the griefsyndrome/save folder, and see if it has the right modified date and read/write permission.[[User:KM|KM]] 21:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::The folder's empty. Damn... I'm guessing either it auto-deleted upon closure, or it was never created :/ --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, it can only save if it's on the default folder. I reinstalled there and it worked. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 01:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::Mine's in a non-default folder, and it's got up to 677 available. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::::When it wasn't saving, was it outside the default because of being moved after installing, or was it installed in that same non-default folder?[[User:KM|KM]] 18:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Installed outside (in the Program Files folder). --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== Not-Mentioned Bug ==

I've encountered a bug that was not mentioned in the FAQ, so I decided to post it here. The bug makes the fore- and background of the stages (so far only tested on Gertrud Stage) entirely white, the characters and enemies however are correctly displayed. It also causes the game to crash when moving to Gertruds boss room. Does anyone know how to fix this? My PC is on Japanese Locale and my Directx is enough up to date (Dx11). (Also This is my first time editing a wiki,I'm sorry for any errors.) [[User:Anton|Anton]] 09:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed another glitch, though this one isn't that big of a deal. If you're in a boss fight and you pause and return to the title screen, the boss' HP meter stays on the screen. This persists until you restart the game or you get to another boss fight. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Another glitch I found is that if you change any settings using the config.exe, the Esc key, usually only mapped to the menu key, will also be mapped to the player 1 strong attack key. I don't know if this can be fixed, but you can change it back by deleting the config.dat file and copying an original keyconfig.dat file back into the folder. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

== Highest solo clocking? ==

I know that 677's been beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami, but what's the highest known to have been beaten with just 1 player? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:The highest I've seen is a guy on nicovideo soloing lap 100 with Sayaka. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15316097 Is there a video of the guys beating lap 677? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 08:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I've seen vids of Gertrud and Charlotte beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami on 677. That guy lucked out on Kirsten, though. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I've just beaten lap 458 330 with homura... and a truckload of cheating, does that count?-Gniarf
::::Woah my god high lap. How do you cheat at this game? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:20, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::To reach this lap I edited my save0.dat (you just need a zlbib compressor/uncompressor+an hex editor). As for in-game cheating I used cheat engine to lock soul limit and power (set power to 500000, makes enemies die about as fast as in lap1). If you're a bit familiar with cheat engine, soul and power can be accessed via a level 4-5 pointer.(Note: set your level to 99 before changing the power or it will be reset upon level up).
::::::There is no point in locking your health because even if you set it to its maximum (32 000 and a few) you still get one-shot- Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/77.200.213.106|77.200.213.106]] 21:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Hahah, that sounds awesome. Must be fun to spam specials all day. Mami's Tiro Finale could last minutes, hahahah. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 22:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Just solo'd 120, and ran into a bug where it freezes with a black screen before the ending plays. At least it saved the data. [[User:KM|KM]] 23:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I just solo'd 100 and ran into the same bug. This didn't happen when I solo'd lap 80, though...[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
::Cheating does not count. >:( [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

== highest lap for grief syndrome is 1316093285, and its bugged ==

at lap 1316093285, normal monsters die in 1 hit, and they do 0 damage to you, most of the time.... and once in a while they 1 shot you... the problem with this lap... the final lap is, that the harder monsters "bigger" or "mini bosses" not counting gertrud and other real "bosses" are unkillable. in cheat engine i have set my damage to as high as possible, but it ends up overflowing does zero damage, that is why monster does 0 damage to you, and you one hit them, since they have 0 health. but these minibosses seem to have unlimited health, so the only way to kill them, is to shoot them out of the map, there are 2 ways to do this, one is with mami, using the trio finale, with your hp locked, u can hold trio finale for as long as you want, and slowly the monster will rise with you out of the map, and the monster is "killed". this method works in the first 3 chapters, but stops working at the 4th, because these monsters wont bounce upwards, thus i cannot bounce them out of the map... so I am assuming the 2nd way would be the only way to beat it. with homura, machine gun pushes monster side way out of the map, but i am not able to lock the machine gun ammo to more then 18, so i cant seem to push the mini boss out in the 4th chapter, anyone have any idea to lock the ammo for homura? so she can keep firing ?
:To reach that lap, one must beat lap 36278. Since I do not believe this is, in fact, possible without cheating (quite apart from getting hit or anything, your soul limit will tick out), I do not believe this to be a true bug (since it is not obtainable within the game's normal operation). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 01:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::If you want to increase homura's HMG clip size, open gs00.dat with an hex editor, and write ((new_clip_size+1)*5) XOR 0x73737373 at 1A16B083 (the clip size spans over 4 bytes). Alternatively if you REALLY want an unlimited clip size, I remember getting this effect by damaging the loop condition at the end of this firing script (didn't note the exact offset). If you want to look at it, the decryption key is 0x73 for gs00.dat, bytes 1A165AA7-1A1703FB, and the homura HMG firing script spans between 1A16AAFC and 1A16B12B.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 22:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
:::As far as I can tell, you can get an infinite clip size by overwriting the string of four bytes in gs00.dat that read "73297373" at around 1A16B083 with "7373732D". I don't really know what's going on, though, since I didn't intend for that change to have exactly that effect. -[[User:ZetaAspect|ZetaAspect]] 11:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== Which program? ==

Hello.
Sorry for kind of stupid question, but where can I find cv2 converter, because I want convert sprites? I tried google this, but there is only one and it doesn't work.

Thanks for any answer. -[[Special:Contributions/87.101.35.180|87.101.35.180]] 19:11, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
:Did you find a .dat extractor (if so: where?) or did you manually extract the files (if not: I'm wasting my time writing a packer/unpacker)?-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::You can found script for extracting game in Xentax Forum (Doujin Game (.DAT) Extraction (audio)). Though you must register to download this script.
:::Ok that's the quickbms script, doesn't handle repacking and uses a ''dodgy'' way of finding the data decryption key. I guess writing a proper (un)packer is still worth something.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::::OK, maybe I rushed a bit, but here is it! Behold the [http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3C5R0E7Z Griefsyndrome RessOurces Packer and Extractor] (aka GropeSyndrome ;) ). Simply put: it allows you to extract the content of the .dat files, and pack it back. Of course if you want to mod a few things in the meantime it's at your own discretion...
::::For those interested in viewing the content of .cv2 files, you can open them in gimp2 by clicking on the "+Select File Type" in the open dialog, and specifying "Raw image data". On the next dialog box, set Image type="RGB Alpha", offset=17, and you will have to manually find width and height (they are at offset 1 and 5 of the file for those familiar with hex editors).
::::Tip: for data\system\StageSelect\M_homura_B.cv2 width is 128 and height is 384.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:57, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

== Blank when play ==

Well,i've downloaded the game. I installed all setup,regional language setting, and i'm unzip the game. To be honnest,the game runing.JUST ONLY in main menu and character select. When i'm play the game, the game whas blank, no drawing's, black, but i still can see hit's and scores, how can i fix this? --[[Nyan00]]--09:43,6 September 2011

Same like me, i can't play it if it's Blank,i don't know how to fix it too, anyone knows? i tried all i can but, it still can't run and always blank. --[[Mirai-mirai]]-- 16:26, 16 September 2011

Your AGP Texture Acceleration is probably disabled. Run dxdiag and enable it.

Where can i find dxdiag? i search it all time's and i can't find it well, i'll check it again thank you. Mirai-mirai you can't fix it too? I think everyone can play grief syndrome, except me. --[[Nyan00]]-- 14:03, 17 September 2011

errr.. Go to Task Manager, click new task and type in dxdiag. Click enter.

Still blank,though.--[[Nyan00]]-- 21:50, 17 Semptember 2011

err, i still can't find it, where can i find tax manager .sorry, i'm a bit IDIOT for computer system. :( [[Mirai-mirai]] 10:25, 18 September 2011.

To open task manager, hold ctrl+alt then click delete. errr. are all three in your Display tab enabled? or is one missing?

==Stat increases stated in this page are misleading==

While vitality increases at the stated rate for the first few levels (6 for Sayaka, 5 for Mami/Kyouko, 4 for Madoka/Homura), it slows down significantly thereafter - at level 30 or so Homura only gains 1-2 points of vitality per level. The "Per level" entry in the boxes hence can be highly misleading. We should either change it to reflect the average over the 98 level-ups or scrap it and put a table in. Not sure, but I think Soul Limit might be nonlinear as well (I'm 100% sure power doesn't slow down or speed up, though). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 02:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Testing with Homura on lap 677 (I appear to get the same results on lap 26), her vitality increased by 4 each level up to 6 (so she had 108 there) then increased by 3 each level up to 13 (so she had 129 there) then increased by 2 each level up to 19 (so she had 141 there) and increased by 1 each level thereafter (tested up to 28, at which she had 150 vitality). Her soul limit was, however, in perfect agreement with the linear fit given on the page.

Madoka appears to follow the same pattern, but with 4 more HP at all times, of course. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 08:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Tested Sayaka. The breakpoints are 6, 13, 19, 26, and 33 (ie, she gains 6 hp until 6 (168), then 5 hp till 13 (203), then 4 till 19 (227), then 3 till 26 (248), then 2 till 33 (262) then 1). I can see a pattern here, though I haven't confirmed it on Mami or Kyouko. If it holds, the following max vitalities at level 99 should be correct - can I get confirmation?

Homura: 221
Kyouko: 253
Madoka: 225
Mami: 268
Sayaka: 328
[[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 05:20, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

== -----How to upgrade?-------- ==

Well,i've downloaded grief syndrome.After that,i wanted to upgrade from 1.00 ver to 1.10 ver. i've dowloaded 1.10 upgrade.But, i don't know how to upgraded it, someone knows it? thank you, everyone :) --[[Box usagi]]--
:I had no problem, all I did was just click and that's it. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 07:10, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-14T08:44:14Z

Magic9mushroom:

This game just taught me something: I'd be a terrible magical girl. That's good to know, at least now I know I shouldn't contract Kyubey if I ever get the chance to... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, the endings for this game make me feel terribly empty inside. It's like how I felt after episode 6 and onwards. Mami, the only one surviving, eating cake alone. Kyouko by herself, chewing an apple. Dammit. At least I felt happy when I killed Charlotte with Mami. Sayaka in the show did much better than me on the hikki TV level. [[User:Holycrap|Holycrap]] 09:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone know what the requirement is for getting the 2nd last picture in the gallery? [[Special:Contributions/220.255.1.48|220.255.1.48]] 02:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:If only Madoka and Sayaka die. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

==Problem here==
I've downloaded the files and everything. However, it is on a .rar file, and I really don't know how it operates. Suggestions?
:It's a compressed file, works just like a .zip. Open it with WinRAR or a similar program. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 03:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I don't have WinRAR on my Windows 7. Do you know of an alternative instead? I am sorry if I am acting as a noob. :(
:::Get WinRAR or 7zip. You'll need it to unzip it. Nothing else but to get the program. [[Special:Contributions/128.54.205.243|128.54.205.243]] 16:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Once I unzip, I will be able to play? Edit: I unzipped the files, but there seems to be something missing. It won't let me play, and I downloaded the appropriate .dll file. http://i51.tinypic.com/juwfvr.png
:Go to start and run "dxdiag". Then go the "Display" tab. Below there should be three options. "DirectDraw,Direct3D and AGP Texture Acceleration. Make sure that they are all enabled. The message you received means that your "Direct3D" is either not available or disabled. Enable all of them and you should be able to play. :D --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Stat box ==

Can one of our wikicode magicians make a stat box for the mahou shoujo sections? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Shamelessly copypasting the infobox for characters, I suggest you one of the two variants below. I personally perfer the first (vertical) one. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::I actually thinks the second version look better. Also, it's shorter length means less blank toolbox only space on the thread. Can we get another opinion on this one? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 20:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Actually, the only thing that bugs me with the horizontal version is that I don't know how to label the columns, especially the last one ... "Growth per level" is a bit too long, "Per level", "growth per lvl" or "growth/level" don't look or sound to good... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I think per level looks fine, it's similar to how we do in [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine another wiki] that I help out on. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::I added the info boxes. They look pretty awesome. Thanks for providing the template, Homerun-chan.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="2" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=92
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=10
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=28875
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=SL lost in revive
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=9.6%
}}<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Growth per level</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+4
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+1
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+128
}}</table>

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

{{-}}

==help!==

i tried to download it but i can't find where on the page the download thingy is, i clicked on everything and no dice [[User:Paige|Paige]] 15:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

:Check the latest thread here http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Threads#Grief_Syndrome
:i can't make sense of that site either, no handy screen shots or can't you download it on the grief syndrome site? am i the only person having problems with it? *sigh* [[User:Paige|Paige]] 20:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::You can't figure out how to download it from here? http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53407713 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 20:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::>can't you download it on the grief syndrome site?<br>It's a game that got released (read "sold") at Comiket, so it's not really meant to be distributed for free. You should be able to find it if you know where to look or how to use Google though (or easymodo for that matter). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Umm,I wanted to download the file but,I can't find the download link, did someone tell me where is the download link? Please help me. --[[Mirai-mirai]] 18:39, 3 september 2011
:Use the megaupload link on this thread posted. http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53382856 --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 18:45, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Are I really need gamepads for play this game? For single player too? Can I play this game with only keyboards? --[[Mirai-mirai]] 15.27, 4 September 2011
:No. Keyboards can be used to play this game. The controls shoulb be on the main page of this game here in the wiki. If the controls does not work,open Config and configure your controls . --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:37, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I am really confused on how to change the BGM. I've tried a whole bunch of times, but I can't figure it out. I noticed it is in the FAQ section. --[[User:Ploppypop|Ploppypop]] 8:19pm, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

==Moemura?!==
[[File:Moemura grief syndrome.jpg|right|300px]]
Anyone know how to get her? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:It's a drawing from 2ch, it's not real. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
::Being a fan is suffering --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, that's NOT a drawing. That image (and the relevant sprites) indeed can be found in the game's resources. Conditions of obtaining Moe-Homura are unknown yet, sorry. [[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 11:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm pretty sure from the context I saw it in that the image was in fact a fan altered one from a real image. However, I didn't know that they pulled the Moemura image from the game files so that it could this screen could be real if conditions were met assuming the game allows it. You'd think if someone had figured it out by now there'd be a vid or gameplay images with Moemura by now. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Likely it's a dropped character. It's commonplace for game developers to leave unused artifacts within the games. If there is a way to unlock it, though, it would be good. Let's not forget that they can also implement it in the future. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Now that I gained access to the game ressources, I can confirm that:
::::::a-The "Moe"mura image is indeed part of the game files.
::::::b-There is no additional gameplay sprites for "Moe"mura.
::::::However the "Moe"mura image shown on this screenshot (M_homura_B.cv2) is referenced in 2 scripts: StagePause.act and StageSelect.act. So if it's not leftover artefacts (but imo BrickBreak is right on this) you can expect at best a menu image change, and perhaps some stats change too, nothing more.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 20:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I heard that they released a patch to enable Moemura. But since I am outside Japan and unable to get access to their website, I cannot confirm that. Besides, QB may be controlled after the patch if there are fewer characters alive in multi-play mode. For example, if there are 3 players but only 2 available, the 3rd player can select one of other characters but will be replaced by QB in game. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:You are indeed correct. I'm trying out the patch now and to play as Moemura you press up while your cursor is on Homura's portrait. Pretty amusing. Press down on Moemura to switch back to Homura. Haven't checked out QB yet. Pretty cool update, though. Hopefully they've fixed the bugs in the game, too. Thanks for the info! [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 20:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== All endings ==

So as I see, someone aded thelast unknown trophy.
What are the endings known this far and how can they be obtained?
[[Special:Contributions/91.202.255.7|91.202.255.7]] 05:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

:I added an endings section to the main page that includes known endings and conditions. This doesn't seem to be all of them, though, since I believe I've gotten all mentioned and haven't yet gotten the trophy. Anyone know of other endings? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

All the 1 person surviving and 4 people surviving endings have been confirmed except for only Madoka surviving, but I feel like odds are good that that will end up with the default Homura ending. If anyone else could check some of these out, too, that'd be great.
[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Only Madoka surviving is confirmed to give you the Homura waking up in bed ending. (Oktavia not killed, but I don't think that matters).[[User:KM|KM]] 23:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks for checking that. I don't think it matters if Oktavia is killed or not, either, as long as you get Oktavia because Sayaka died.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 06:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, all ending possibilities have been checked. And after having checked them all I didn't get the third trophy, so that seems incorrect. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: So you've checked all 32 possibilities (I believe mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht is possible), and you don't have the third trophy? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I checked every single possibility except only Madoka surviving ending, which KM checked. I still don't have the third trophy, sadly. I didn't check a mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht, but I don't think that would result in a different ending... I'm starting to think that my original guess that the third trophy is "Beat the game without getting hit" might be correct after all. The ordering of the trophies have been such that a silver trophy will be awarded for a given condition and the trophy below will be a gold one with a condition similar but more difficult than the one preceding it. The second trophy is beat the game without any downs, so I think not getting hit is a logical possibility. Not getting hit even once is really difficult, though, due to the random nature that the enemies in the game attack. But if this is the correct condition, then maybe that explains why it hasn't been confirmed yet. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::I've took a peek at the game resources again and translated the third trophy for ya. It seems there's a bug in Tasofro's bytecode, so the flag for this trophy never sets. Instead of marking it as "???", I suggest to write a notice "Unobtainable due to a bug". --[[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 21:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Well that... sucks... Thanks for the info, though. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
::::I think we do need to check "everyone dies", since as THE hardest ending to obtain it would be the most likely to have a secret (as for how to do it, I'd suggest kill everyone else, do WPGN with Madoka, get both of them to low health, do Madoka's ulti and then jump off the map). As far as not getting hit, the hardest bit would be Kirsten's stage. Everything else can be done without getting hit through overuse of time stop, but Kirsten's minions love to attack from offscreen. I'd suggest grinding Homura to 99 on Gertrud's or Charlotte's stage (Gertrud's stage is more dangerous, but Charlotte herself is more dangerous with her sky attack) before taking on Kirsten to secure additional time stop uses. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::I've actually tried to die by falling off the screen after killing Walpurgisnacht before, just to see what would happen. You don't die, you just kind of chill out at the bottom of the screen waiting for Walpurgisnacht to die and then you fall and land on the ground like usual. I've also checked if everyone dies and it results, predictably, in a game over. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::: That wasn't what I meant. I meant falling off the screen or otherwise dying before the last attack hits. So with Homura, for example, setting up a flare and getting shot before it fires. Madoka would be the easiest with her ulti's stupidly high damage. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Hey so the version 1.10 patch came out today and it fixed the glitch with the third trophy not appearing. The 10 endings listed in the ending section are confirmed to be the only endings as I now have the trophy without having beaten the game again. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Laps not saved ==

Well, I completed the first lap, and utterly failed on the second (was trying to go with Mami, let everyone else die, didn't farmed enough lv's to make up for her crappyness). Back to the main menu, still with the stats and the choice of which lap to with. I close the game, and open it again just to be sure. Everything's gone. Wasn't it supposed to save after a lap? --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Look for a save0.dat file in the griefsyndrome/save folder, and see if it has the right modified date and read/write permission.[[User:KM|KM]] 21:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::The folder's empty. Damn... I'm guessing either it auto-deleted upon closure, or it was never created :/ --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, it can only save if it's on the default folder. I reinstalled there and it worked. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 01:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::Mine's in a non-default folder, and it's got up to 677 available. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::::When it wasn't saving, was it outside the default because of being moved after installing, or was it installed in that same non-default folder?[[User:KM|KM]] 18:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Installed outside (in the Program Files folder). --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== Not-Mentioned Bug ==

I've encountered a bug that was not mentioned in the FAQ, so I decided to post it here. The bug makes the fore- and background of the stages (so far only tested on Gertrud Stage) entirely white, the characters and enemies however are correctly displayed. It also causes the game to crash when moving to Gertruds boss room. Does anyone know how to fix this? My PC is on Japanese Locale and my Directx is enough up to date (Dx11). (Also This is my first time editing a wiki,I'm sorry for any errors.) [[User:Anton|Anton]] 09:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed another glitch, though this one isn't that big of a deal. If you're in a boss fight and you pause and return to the title screen, the boss' HP meter stays on the screen. This persists until you restart the game or you get to another boss fight. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Another glitch I found is that if you change any settings using the config.exe, the Esc key, usually only mapped to the menu key, will also be mapped to the player 1 strong attack key. I don't know if this can be fixed, but you can change it back by deleting the config.dat file and copying an original keyconfig.dat file back into the folder. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

== Highest solo clocking? ==

I know that 677's been beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami, but what's the highest known to have been beaten with just 1 player? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:The highest I've seen is a guy on nicovideo soloing lap 100 with Sayaka. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15316097 Is there a video of the guys beating lap 677? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 08:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I've seen vids of Gertrud and Charlotte beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami on 677. That guy lucked out on Kirsten, though. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I've just beaten lap 458 330 with homura... and a truckload of cheating, does that count?-Gniarf
::::Woah my god high lap. How do you cheat at this game? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:20, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::To reach this lap I edited my save0.dat (you just need a zlbib compressor/uncompressor+an hex editor). As for in-game cheating I used cheat engine to lock soul limit and power (set power to 500000, makes enemies die about as fast as in lap1). If you're a bit familiar with cheat engine, soul and power can be accessed via a level 4-5 pointer.(Note: set your level to 99 before changing the power or it will be reset upon level up).
::::::There is no point in locking your health because even if you set it to its maximum (32 000 and a few) you still get one-shot- Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/77.200.213.106|77.200.213.106]] 21:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Hahah, that sounds awesome. Must be fun to spam specials all day. Mami's Tiro Finale could last minutes, hahahah. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 22:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Just solo'd 120, and ran into a bug where it freezes with a black screen before the ending plays. At least it saved the data. [[User:KM|KM]] 23:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I just solo'd 100 and ran into the same bug. This didn't happen when I solo'd lap 80, though...[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
::Cheating does not count. >:( [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

== highest lap for grief syndrome is 1316093285, and its bugged ==

at lap 1316093285, normal monsters die in 1 hit, and they do 0 damage to you, most of the time.... and once in a while they 1 shot you... the problem with this lap... the final lap is, that the harder monsters "bigger" or "mini bosses" not counting gertrud and other real "bosses" are unkillable. in cheat engine i have set my damage to as high as possible, but it ends up overflowing does zero damage, that is why monster does 0 damage to you, and you one hit them, since they have 0 health. but these minibosses seem to have unlimited health, so the only way to kill them, is to shoot them out of the map, there are 2 ways to do this, one is with mami, using the trio finale, with your hp locked, u can hold trio finale for as long as you want, and slowly the monster will rise with you out of the map, and the monster is "killed". this method works in the first 3 chapters, but stops working at the 4th, because these monsters wont bounce upwards, thus i cannot bounce them out of the map... so I am assuming the 2nd way would be the only way to beat it. with homura, machine gun pushes monster side way out of the map, but i am not able to lock the machine gun ammo to more then 18, so i cant seem to push the mini boss out in the 4th chapter, anyone have any idea to lock the ammo for homura? so she can keep firing ?
:To reach that lap, one must beat lap 36278. Since I do not believe this is, in fact, possible without cheating (quite apart from getting hit or anything, your soul limit will tick out), I do not believe this to be a true bug (since it is not obtainable within the game's normal operation). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 01:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::If you want to increase homura's HMG clip size, open gs00.dat with an hex editor, and write ((new_clip_size+1)*5) XOR 0x73737373 at 1A16B083 (the clip size spans over 4 bytes). Alternatively if you REALLY want an unlimited clip size, I remember getting this effect by damaging the loop condition at the end of this firing script (didn't note the exact offset). If you want to look at it, the decryption key is 0x73 for gs00.dat, bytes 1A165AA7-1A1703FB, and the homura HMG firing script spans between 1A16AAFC and 1A16B12B.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 22:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
:::As far as I can tell, you can get an infinite clip size by overwriting the string of four bytes in gs00.dat that read "73297373" at around 1A16B083 with "7373732D". I don't really know what's going on, though, since I didn't intend for that change to have exactly that effect. -[[User:ZetaAspect|ZetaAspect]] 11:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== Which program? ==

Hello.
Sorry for kind of stupid question, but where can I find cv2 converter, because I want convert sprites? I tried google this, but there is only one and it doesn't work.

Thanks for any answer. -[[Special:Contributions/87.101.35.180|87.101.35.180]] 19:11, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
:Did you find a .dat extractor (if so: where?) or did you manually extract the files (if not: I'm wasting my time writing a packer/unpacker)?-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::You can found script for extracting game in Xentax Forum (Doujin Game (.DAT) Extraction (audio)). Though you must register to download this script.
:::Ok that's the quickbms script, doesn't handle repacking and uses a ''dodgy'' way of finding the data decryption key. I guess writing a proper (un)packer is still worth something.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::::OK, maybe I rushed a bit, but here is it! Behold the [http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3C5R0E7Z Griefsyndrome RessOurces Packer and Extractor] (aka GropeSyndrome ;) ). Simply put: it allows you to extract the content of the .dat files, and pack it back. Of course if you want to mod a few things in the meantime it's at your own discretion...
::::For those interested in viewing the content of .cv2 files, you can open them in gimp2 by clicking on the "+Select File Type" in the open dialog, and specifying "Raw image data". On the next dialog box, set Image type="RGB Alpha", offset=17, and you will have to manually find width and height (they are at offset 1 and 5 of the file for those familiar with hex editors).
::::Tip: for data\system\StageSelect\M_homura_B.cv2 width is 128 and height is 384.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:57, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

== Blank when play ==

Well,i've downloaded the game. I installed all setup,regional language setting, and i'm unzip the game. To be honnest,the game runing.JUST ONLY in main menu and character select. When i'm play the game, the game whas blank, no drawing's, black, but i still can see hit's and scores, how can i fix this? --[[Nyan00]]--09:43,6 September 2011

==Stat increases stated in this page are misleading==

While vitality increases at the stated rate for the first few levels (6 for Sayaka, 5 for Mami/Kyouko, 4 for Madoka/Homura), it slows down significantly thereafter - at level 30 or so Homura only gains 1-2 points of vitality per level. The "Per level" entry in the boxes hence can be highly misleading. We should either change it to reflect the average over the 98 level-ups or scrap it and put a table in. Not sure, but I think Soul Limit might be nonlinear as well (I'm 100% sure power doesn't slow down or speed up, though). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 02:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Testing with Homura on lap 677 (I appear to get the same results on lap 26), her vitality increased by 4 each level up to 6 (so she had 108 there) then increased by 3 each level up to 13 (so she had 129 there) then increased by 2 each level up to 19 (so she had 141 there) and increased by 1 each level thereafter (tested up to 28, at which she had 150 vitality). Her soul limit was, however, in perfect agreement with the linear fit given on the page.

Madoka appears to follow the same pattern, but with 4 more HP at all times, of course. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 08:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-14T08:18:10Z

Magic9mushroom:

This game just taught me something: I'd be a terrible magical girl. That's good to know, at least now I know I shouldn't contract Kyubey if I ever get the chance to... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, the endings for this game make me feel terribly empty inside. It's like how I felt after episode 6 and onwards. Mami, the only one surviving, eating cake alone. Kyouko by herself, chewing an apple. Dammit. At least I felt happy when I killed Charlotte with Mami. Sayaka in the show did much better than me on the hikki TV level. [[User:Holycrap|Holycrap]] 09:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone know what the requirement is for getting the 2nd last picture in the gallery? [[Special:Contributions/220.255.1.48|220.255.1.48]] 02:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:If only Madoka and Sayaka die. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

==Problem here==
I've downloaded the files and everything. However, it is on a .rar file, and I really don't know how it operates. Suggestions?
:It's a compressed file, works just like a .zip. Open it with WinRAR or a similar program. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 03:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I don't have WinRAR on my Windows 7. Do you know of an alternative instead? I am sorry if I am acting as a noob. :(
:::Get WinRAR or 7zip. You'll need it to unzip it. Nothing else but to get the program. [[Special:Contributions/128.54.205.243|128.54.205.243]] 16:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Once I unzip, I will be able to play? Edit: I unzipped the files, but there seems to be something missing. It won't let me play, and I downloaded the appropriate .dll file. http://i51.tinypic.com/juwfvr.png
:Go to start and run "dxdiag". Then go the "Display" tab. Below there should be three options. "DirectDraw,Direct3D and AGP Texture Acceleration. Make sure that they are all enabled. The message you received means that your "Direct3D" is either not available or disabled. Enable all of them and you should be able to play. :D --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Stat box ==

Can one of our wikicode magicians make a stat box for the mahou shoujo sections? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Shamelessly copypasting the infobox for characters, I suggest you one of the two variants below. I personally perfer the first (vertical) one. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::I actually thinks the second version look better. Also, it's shorter length means less blank toolbox only space on the thread. Can we get another opinion on this one? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 20:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Actually, the only thing that bugs me with the horizontal version is that I don't know how to label the columns, especially the last one ... "Growth per level" is a bit too long, "Per level", "growth per lvl" or "growth/level" don't look or sound to good... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I think per level looks fine, it's similar to how we do in [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine another wiki] that I help out on. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::I added the info boxes. They look pretty awesome. Thanks for providing the template, Homerun-chan.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="2" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=92
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=10
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=28875
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=SL lost in revive
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=9.6%
}}<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Growth per level</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+4
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+1
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+128
}}</table>

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

{{-}}

==help!==

i tried to download it but i can't find where on the page the download thingy is, i clicked on everything and no dice [[User:Paige|Paige]] 15:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

:Check the latest thread here http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Threads#Grief_Syndrome
:i can't make sense of that site either, no handy screen shots or can't you download it on the grief syndrome site? am i the only person having problems with it? *sigh* [[User:Paige|Paige]] 20:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::You can't figure out how to download it from here? http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53407713 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 20:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::>can't you download it on the grief syndrome site?<br>It's a game that got released (read "sold") at Comiket, so it's not really meant to be distributed for free. You should be able to find it if you know where to look or how to use Google though (or easymodo for that matter). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Umm,I wanted to download the file but,I can't find the download link, did someone tell me where is the download link? Please help me. --[[Mirai-mirai]] 18:39, 3 september 2011
:Use the megaupload link on this thread posted. http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53382856 --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 18:45, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Are I really need gamepads for play this game? For single player too? Can I play this game with only keyboards? --[[Mirai-mirai]] 15.27, 4 September 2011
:No. Keyboards can be used to play this game. The controls shoulb be on the main page of this game here in the wiki. If the controls does not work,open Config and configure your controls . --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:37, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I am really confused on how to change the BGM. I've tried a whole bunch of times, but I can't figure it out. I noticed it is in the FAQ section. --[[User:Ploppypop|Ploppypop]] 8:19pm, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

==Moemura?!==
[[File:Moemura grief syndrome.jpg|right|300px]]
Anyone know how to get her? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:It's a drawing from 2ch, it's not real. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
::Being a fan is suffering --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, that's NOT a drawing. That image (and the relevant sprites) indeed can be found in the game's resources. Conditions of obtaining Moe-Homura are unknown yet, sorry. [[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 11:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm pretty sure from the context I saw it in that the image was in fact a fan altered one from a real image. However, I didn't know that they pulled the Moemura image from the game files so that it could this screen could be real if conditions were met assuming the game allows it. You'd think if someone had figured it out by now there'd be a vid or gameplay images with Moemura by now. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Likely it's a dropped character. It's commonplace for game developers to leave unused artifacts within the games. If there is a way to unlock it, though, it would be good. Let's not forget that they can also implement it in the future. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Now that I gained access to the game ressources, I can confirm that:
::::::a-The "Moe"mura image is indeed part of the game files.
::::::b-There is no additional gameplay sprites for "Moe"mura.
::::::However the "Moe"mura image shown on this screenshot (M_homura_B.cv2) is referenced in 2 scripts: StagePause.act and StageSelect.act. So if it's not leftover artefacts (but imo BrickBreak is right on this) you can expect at best a menu image change, and perhaps some stats change too, nothing more.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 20:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I heard that they released a patch to enable Moemura. But since I am outside Japan and unable to get access to their website, I cannot confirm that. Besides, QB may be controlled after the patch if there are fewer characters alive in multi-play mode. For example, if there are 3 players but only 2 available, the 3rd player can select one of other characters but will be replaced by QB in game. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:You are indeed correct. I'm trying out the patch now and to play as Moemura you press up while your cursor is on Homura's portrait. Pretty amusing. Press down on Moemura to switch back to Homura. Haven't checked out QB yet. Pretty cool update, though. Hopefully they've fixed the bugs in the game, too. Thanks for the info! [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 20:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== All endings ==

So as I see, someone aded thelast unknown trophy.
What are the endings known this far and how can they be obtained?
[[Special:Contributions/91.202.255.7|91.202.255.7]] 05:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

:I added an endings section to the main page that includes known endings and conditions. This doesn't seem to be all of them, though, since I believe I've gotten all mentioned and haven't yet gotten the trophy. Anyone know of other endings? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

All the 1 person surviving and 4 people surviving endings have been confirmed except for only Madoka surviving, but I feel like odds are good that that will end up with the default Homura ending. If anyone else could check some of these out, too, that'd be great.
[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Only Madoka surviving is confirmed to give you the Homura waking up in bed ending. (Oktavia not killed, but I don't think that matters).[[User:KM|KM]] 23:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks for checking that. I don't think it matters if Oktavia is killed or not, either, as long as you get Oktavia because Sayaka died.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 06:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, all ending possibilities have been checked. And after having checked them all I didn't get the third trophy, so that seems incorrect. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: So you've checked all 32 possibilities (I believe mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht is possible), and you don't have the third trophy? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I checked every single possibility except only Madoka surviving ending, which KM checked. I still don't have the third trophy, sadly. I didn't check a mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht, but I don't think that would result in a different ending... I'm starting to think that my original guess that the third trophy is "Beat the game without getting hit" might be correct after all. The ordering of the trophies have been such that a silver trophy will be awarded for a given condition and the trophy below will be a gold one with a condition similar but more difficult than the one preceding it. The second trophy is beat the game without any downs, so I think not getting hit is a logical possibility. Not getting hit even once is really difficult, though, due to the random nature that the enemies in the game attack. But if this is the correct condition, then maybe that explains why it hasn't been confirmed yet. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::I've took a peek at the game resources again and translated the third trophy for ya. It seems there's a bug in Tasofro's bytecode, so the flag for this trophy never sets. Instead of marking it as "???", I suggest to write a notice "Unobtainable due to a bug". --[[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 21:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Well that... sucks... Thanks for the info, though. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
::::I think we do need to check "everyone dies", since as THE hardest ending to obtain it would be the most likely to have a secret (as for how to do it, I'd suggest kill everyone else, do WPGN with Madoka, get both of them to low health, do Madoka's ulti and then jump off the map). As far as not getting hit, the hardest bit would be Kirsten's stage. Everything else can be done without getting hit through overuse of time stop, but Kirsten's minions love to attack from offscreen. I'd suggest grinding Homura to 99 on Gertrud's or Charlotte's stage (Gertrud's stage is more dangerous, but Charlotte herself is more dangerous with her sky attack) before taking on Kirsten to secure additional time stop uses. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::I've actually tried to die by falling off the screen after killing Walpurgisnacht before, just to see what would happen. You don't die, you just kind of chill out at the bottom of the screen waiting for Walpurgisnacht to die and then you fall and land on the ground like usual. I've also checked if everyone dies and it results, predictably, in a game over. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::: That wasn't what I meant. I meant falling off the screen or otherwise dying before the last attack hits. So with Homura, for example, setting up a flare and getting shot before it fires. Madoka would be the easiest with her ulti's stupidly high damage. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Hey so the version 1.10 patch came out today and it fixed the glitch with the third trophy not appearing. The 10 endings listed in the ending section are confirmed to be the only endings as I now have the trophy without having beaten the game again. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Laps not saved ==

Well, I completed the first lap, and utterly failed on the second (was trying to go with Mami, let everyone else die, didn't farmed enough lv's to make up for her crappyness). Back to the main menu, still with the stats and the choice of which lap to with. I close the game, and open it again just to be sure. Everything's gone. Wasn't it supposed to save after a lap? --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Look for a save0.dat file in the griefsyndrome/save folder, and see if it has the right modified date and read/write permission.[[User:KM|KM]] 21:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::The folder's empty. Damn... I'm guessing either it auto-deleted upon closure, or it was never created :/ --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, it can only save if it's on the default folder. I reinstalled there and it worked. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 01:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::Mine's in a non-default folder, and it's got up to 677 available. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::::When it wasn't saving, was it outside the default because of being moved after installing, or was it installed in that same non-default folder?[[User:KM|KM]] 18:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Installed outside (in the Program Files folder). --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== Not-Mentioned Bug ==

I've encountered a bug that was not mentioned in the FAQ, so I decided to post it here. The bug makes the fore- and background of the stages (so far only tested on Gertrud Stage) entirely white, the characters and enemies however are correctly displayed. It also causes the game to crash when moving to Gertruds boss room. Does anyone know how to fix this? My PC is on Japanese Locale and my Directx is enough up to date (Dx11). (Also This is my first time editing a wiki,I'm sorry for any errors.) [[User:Anton|Anton]] 09:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed another glitch, though this one isn't that big of a deal. If you're in a boss fight and you pause and return to the title screen, the boss' HP meter stays on the screen. This persists until you restart the game or you get to another boss fight. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Another glitch I found is that if you change any settings using the config.exe, the Esc key, usually only mapped to the menu key, will also be mapped to the player 1 strong attack key. I don't know if this can be fixed, but you can change it back by deleting the config.dat file and copying an original keyconfig.dat file back into the folder. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

== Highest solo clocking? ==

I know that 677's been beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami, but what's the highest known to have been beaten with just 1 player? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:The highest I've seen is a guy on nicovideo soloing lap 100 with Sayaka. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15316097 Is there a video of the guys beating lap 677? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 08:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I've seen vids of Gertrud and Charlotte beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami on 677. That guy lucked out on Kirsten, though. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I've just beaten lap 458 330 with homura... and a truckload of cheating, does that count?-Gniarf
::::Woah my god high lap. How do you cheat at this game? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:20, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::To reach this lap I edited my save0.dat (you just need a zlbib compressor/uncompressor+an hex editor). As for in-game cheating I used cheat engine to lock soul limit and power (set power to 500000, makes enemies die about as fast as in lap1). If you're a bit familiar with cheat engine, soul and power can be accessed via a level 4-5 pointer.(Note: set your level to 99 before changing the power or it will be reset upon level up).
::::::There is no point in locking your health because even if you set it to its maximum (32 000 and a few) you still get one-shot- Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/77.200.213.106|77.200.213.106]] 21:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Hahah, that sounds awesome. Must be fun to spam specials all day. Mami's Tiro Finale could last minutes, hahahah. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 22:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Just solo'd 120, and ran into a bug where it freezes with a black screen before the ending plays. At least it saved the data. [[User:KM|KM]] 23:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I just solo'd 100 and ran into the same bug. This didn't happen when I solo'd lap 80, though...[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
::Cheating does not count. >:( [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

== highest lap for grief syndrome is 1316093285, and its bugged ==

at lap 1316093285, normal monsters die in 1 hit, and they do 0 damage to you, most of the time.... and once in a while they 1 shot you... the problem with this lap... the final lap is, that the harder monsters "bigger" or "mini bosses" not counting gertrud and other real "bosses" are unkillable. in cheat engine i have set my damage to as high as possible, but it ends up overflowing does zero damage, that is why monster does 0 damage to you, and you one hit them, since they have 0 health. but these minibosses seem to have unlimited health, so the only way to kill them, is to shoot them out of the map, there are 2 ways to do this, one is with mami, using the trio finale, with your hp locked, u can hold trio finale for as long as you want, and slowly the monster will rise with you out of the map, and the monster is "killed". this method works in the first 3 chapters, but stops working at the 4th, because these monsters wont bounce upwards, thus i cannot bounce them out of the map... so I am assuming the 2nd way would be the only way to beat it. with homura, machine gun pushes monster side way out of the map, but i am not able to lock the machine gun ammo to more then 18, so i cant seem to push the mini boss out in the 4th chapter, anyone have any idea to lock the ammo for homura? so she can keep firing ?
:To reach that lap, one must beat lap 36278. Since I do not believe this is, in fact, possible without cheating (quite apart from getting hit or anything, your soul limit will tick out), I do not believe this to be a true bug (since it is not obtainable within the game's normal operation). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 01:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::If you want to increase homura's HMG clip size, open gs00.dat with an hex editor, and write ((new_clip_size+1)*5) XOR 0x73737373 at 1A16B083 (the clip size spans over 4 bytes). Alternatively if you REALLY want an unlimited clip size, I remember getting this effect by damaging the loop condition at the end of this firing script (didn't note the exact offset). If you want to look at it, the decryption key is 0x73 for gs00.dat, bytes 1A165AA7-1A1703FB, and the homura HMG firing script spans between 1A16AAFC and 1A16B12B.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 22:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
:::As far as I can tell, you can get an infinite clip size by overwriting the string of four bytes in gs00.dat that read "73297373" at around 1A16B083 with "7373732D". I don't really know what's going on, though, since I didn't intend for that change to have exactly that effect. -[[User:ZetaAspect|ZetaAspect]] 11:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== Which program? ==

Hello.
Sorry for kind of stupid question, but where can I find cv2 converter, because I want convert sprites? I tried google this, but there is only one and it doesn't work.

Thanks for any answer. -[[Special:Contributions/87.101.35.180|87.101.35.180]] 19:11, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
:Did you find a .dat extractor (if so: where?) or did you manually extract the files (if not: I'm wasting my time writing a packer/unpacker)?-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::You can found script for extracting game in Xentax Forum (Doujin Game (.DAT) Extraction (audio)). Though you must register to download this script.
:::Ok that's the quickbms script, doesn't handle repacking and uses a ''dodgy'' way of finding the data decryption key. I guess writing a proper (un)packer is still worth something.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::::OK, maybe I rushed a bit, but here is it! Behold the [http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3C5R0E7Z Griefsyndrome RessOurces Packer and Extractor] (aka GropeSyndrome ;) ). Simply put: it allows you to extract the content of the .dat files, and pack it back. Of course if you want to mod a few things in the meantime it's at your own discretion...
::::For those interested in viewing the content of .cv2 files, you can open them in gimp2 by clicking on the "+Select File Type" in the open dialog, and specifying "Raw image data". On the next dialog box, set Image type="RGB Alpha", offset=17, and you will have to manually find width and height (they are at offset 1 and 5 of the file for those familiar with hex editors).
::::Tip: for data\system\StageSelect\M_homura_B.cv2 width is 128 and height is 384.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:57, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

== Blank when play ==

Well,i've downloaded the game. I installed all setup,regional language setting, and i'm unzip the game. To be honnest,the game runing.JUST ONLY in main menu and character select. When i'm play the game, the game whas blank, no drawing's, black, but i still can see hit's and scores, how can i fix this? --[[Nyan00]]--09:43,6 September 2011

==Stat increases stated in this page are misleading==

While vitality increases at the stated rate for the first few levels (6 for Sayaka, 5 for Mami/Kyouko, 4 for Madoka/Homura), it slows down significantly thereafter - at level 30 or so Homura only gains 1-2 points of vitality per level. The "Per level" entry in the boxes hence can be highly misleading. We should either change it to reflect the average over the 98 level-ups or scrap it and put a table in. Not sure, but I think Soul Limit might be nonlinear as well (I'm 100% sure power doesn't slow down or speed up, though). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 02:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Testing with Homura on lap 677 (I appear to get the same results on lap 26), her vitality increased by 4 each level up to 6 (so she had 108 there) then increased by 3 each level up to 13 (so she had 129 there) then increased by 2 each level up to 19 (so she had 141 there) and increased by 1 each level thereafter (tested up to 28, at which she had 150 vitality). Her soul limit was, however, in perfect agreement with the linear fit given on the page. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 08:01, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-14T08:01:04Z

Magic9mushroom:

This game just taught me something: I'd be a terrible magical girl. That's good to know, at least now I know I shouldn't contract Kyubey if I ever get the chance to... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, the endings for this game make me feel terribly empty inside. It's like how I felt after episode 6 and onwards. Mami, the only one surviving, eating cake alone. Kyouko by herself, chewing an apple. Dammit. At least I felt happy when I killed Charlotte with Mami. Sayaka in the show did much better than me on the hikki TV level. [[User:Holycrap|Holycrap]] 09:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone know what the requirement is for getting the 2nd last picture in the gallery? [[Special:Contributions/220.255.1.48|220.255.1.48]] 02:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:If only Madoka and Sayaka die. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

==Problem here==
I've downloaded the files and everything. However, it is on a .rar file, and I really don't know how it operates. Suggestions?
:It's a compressed file, works just like a .zip. Open it with WinRAR or a similar program. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 03:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I don't have WinRAR on my Windows 7. Do you know of an alternative instead? I am sorry if I am acting as a noob. :(
:::Get WinRAR or 7zip. You'll need it to unzip it. Nothing else but to get the program. [[Special:Contributions/128.54.205.243|128.54.205.243]] 16:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Once I unzip, I will be able to play? Edit: I unzipped the files, but there seems to be something missing. It won't let me play, and I downloaded the appropriate .dll file. http://i51.tinypic.com/juwfvr.png
:Go to start and run "dxdiag". Then go the "Display" tab. Below there should be three options. "DirectDraw,Direct3D and AGP Texture Acceleration. Make sure that they are all enabled. The message you received means that your "Direct3D" is either not available or disabled. Enable all of them and you should be able to play. :D --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Stat box ==

Can one of our wikicode magicians make a stat box for the mahou shoujo sections? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Shamelessly copypasting the infobox for characters, I suggest you one of the two variants below. I personally perfer the first (vertical) one. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::I actually thinks the second version look better. Also, it's shorter length means less blank toolbox only space on the thread. Can we get another opinion on this one? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 20:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Actually, the only thing that bugs me with the horizontal version is that I don't know how to label the columns, especially the last one ... "Growth per level" is a bit too long, "Per level", "growth per lvl" or "growth/level" don't look or sound to good... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I think per level looks fine, it's similar to how we do in [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine another wiki] that I help out on. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::I added the info boxes. They look pretty awesome. Thanks for providing the template, Homerun-chan.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="2" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=92
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=10
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=28875
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=SL lost in revive
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=9.6%
}}<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Growth per level</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+4
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+1
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+128
}}</table>

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

{{-}}

==help!==

i tried to download it but i can't find where on the page the download thingy is, i clicked on everything and no dice [[User:Paige|Paige]] 15:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

:Check the latest thread here http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Threads#Grief_Syndrome
:i can't make sense of that site either, no handy screen shots or can't you download it on the grief syndrome site? am i the only person having problems with it? *sigh* [[User:Paige|Paige]] 20:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::You can't figure out how to download it from here? http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53407713 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 20:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::>can't you download it on the grief syndrome site?<br>It's a game that got released (read "sold") at Comiket, so it's not really meant to be distributed for free. You should be able to find it if you know where to look or how to use Google though (or easymodo for that matter). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Umm,I wanted to download the file but,I can't find the download link, did someone tell me where is the download link? Please help me. --[[Mirai-mirai]] 18:39, 3 september 2011
:Use the megaupload link on this thread posted. http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53382856 --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 18:45, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Are I really need gamepads for play this game? For single player too? Can I play this game with only keyboards? --[[Mirai-mirai]] 15.27, 4 September 2011
:No. Keyboards can be used to play this game. The controls shoulb be on the main page of this game here in the wiki. If the controls does not work,open Config and configure your controls . --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:37, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I am really confused on how to change the BGM. I've tried a whole bunch of times, but I can't figure it out. I noticed it is in the FAQ section. --[[User:Ploppypop|Ploppypop]] 8:19pm, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

==Moemura?!==
[[File:Moemura grief syndrome.jpg|right|300px]]
Anyone know how to get her? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:It's a drawing from 2ch, it's not real. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
::Being a fan is suffering --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, that's NOT a drawing. That image (and the relevant sprites) indeed can be found in the game's resources. Conditions of obtaining Moe-Homura are unknown yet, sorry. [[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 11:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm pretty sure from the context I saw it in that the image was in fact a fan altered one from a real image. However, I didn't know that they pulled the Moemura image from the game files so that it could this screen could be real if conditions were met assuming the game allows it. You'd think if someone had figured it out by now there'd be a vid or gameplay images with Moemura by now. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Likely it's a dropped character. It's commonplace for game developers to leave unused artifacts within the games. If there is a way to unlock it, though, it would be good. Let's not forget that they can also implement it in the future. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Now that I gained access to the game ressources, I can confirm that:
::::::a-The "Moe"mura image is indeed part of the game files.
::::::b-There is no additional gameplay sprites for "Moe"mura.
::::::However the "Moe"mura image shown on this screenshot (M_homura_B.cv2) is referenced in 2 scripts: StagePause.act and StageSelect.act. So if it's not leftover artefacts (but imo BrickBreak is right on this) you can expect at best a menu image change, and perhaps some stats change too, nothing more.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 20:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I heard that they released a patch to enable Moemura. But since I am outside Japan and unable to get access to their website, I cannot confirm that. Besides, QB may be controlled after the patch if there are fewer characters alive in multi-play mode. For example, if there are 3 players but only 2 available, the 3rd player can select one of other characters but will be replaced by QB in game. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:You are indeed correct. I'm trying out the patch now and to play as Moemura you press up while your cursor is on Homura's portrait. Pretty amusing. Press down on Moemura to switch back to Homura. Haven't checked out QB yet. Pretty cool update, though. Hopefully they've fixed the bugs in the game, too. Thanks for the info! [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 20:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== All endings ==

So as I see, someone aded thelast unknown trophy.
What are the endings known this far and how can they be obtained?
[[Special:Contributions/91.202.255.7|91.202.255.7]] 05:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

:I added an endings section to the main page that includes known endings and conditions. This doesn't seem to be all of them, though, since I believe I've gotten all mentioned and haven't yet gotten the trophy. Anyone know of other endings? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

All the 1 person surviving and 4 people surviving endings have been confirmed except for only Madoka surviving, but I feel like odds are good that that will end up with the default Homura ending. If anyone else could check some of these out, too, that'd be great.
[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Only Madoka surviving is confirmed to give you the Homura waking up in bed ending. (Oktavia not killed, but I don't think that matters).[[User:KM|KM]] 23:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks for checking that. I don't think it matters if Oktavia is killed or not, either, as long as you get Oktavia because Sayaka died.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 06:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, all ending possibilities have been checked. And after having checked them all I didn't get the third trophy, so that seems incorrect. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: So you've checked all 32 possibilities (I believe mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht is possible), and you don't have the third trophy? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I checked every single possibility except only Madoka surviving ending, which KM checked. I still don't have the third trophy, sadly. I didn't check a mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht, but I don't think that would result in a different ending... I'm starting to think that my original guess that the third trophy is "Beat the game without getting hit" might be correct after all. The ordering of the trophies have been such that a silver trophy will be awarded for a given condition and the trophy below will be a gold one with a condition similar but more difficult than the one preceding it. The second trophy is beat the game without any downs, so I think not getting hit is a logical possibility. Not getting hit even once is really difficult, though, due to the random nature that the enemies in the game attack. But if this is the correct condition, then maybe that explains why it hasn't been confirmed yet. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::I've took a peek at the game resources again and translated the third trophy for ya. It seems there's a bug in Tasofro's bytecode, so the flag for this trophy never sets. Instead of marking it as "???", I suggest to write a notice "Unobtainable due to a bug". --[[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 21:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Well that... sucks... Thanks for the info, though. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
::::I think we do need to check "everyone dies", since as THE hardest ending to obtain it would be the most likely to have a secret (as for how to do it, I'd suggest kill everyone else, do WPGN with Madoka, get both of them to low health, do Madoka's ulti and then jump off the map). As far as not getting hit, the hardest bit would be Kirsten's stage. Everything else can be done without getting hit through overuse of time stop, but Kirsten's minions love to attack from offscreen. I'd suggest grinding Homura to 99 on Gertrud's or Charlotte's stage (Gertrud's stage is more dangerous, but Charlotte herself is more dangerous with her sky attack) before taking on Kirsten to secure additional time stop uses. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::I've actually tried to die by falling off the screen after killing Walpurgisnacht before, just to see what would happen. You don't die, you just kind of chill out at the bottom of the screen waiting for Walpurgisnacht to die and then you fall and land on the ground like usual. I've also checked if everyone dies and it results, predictably, in a game over. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::: That wasn't what I meant. I meant falling off the screen or otherwise dying before the last attack hits. So with Homura, for example, setting up a flare and getting shot before it fires. Madoka would be the easiest with her ulti's stupidly high damage. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Hey so the version 1.10 patch came out today and it fixed the glitch with the third trophy not appearing. The 10 endings listed in the ending section are confirmed to be the only endings as I now have the trophy without having beaten the game again. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Laps not saved ==

Well, I completed the first lap, and utterly failed on the second (was trying to go with Mami, let everyone else die, didn't farmed enough lv's to make up for her crappyness). Back to the main menu, still with the stats and the choice of which lap to with. I close the game, and open it again just to be sure. Everything's gone. Wasn't it supposed to save after a lap? --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Look for a save0.dat file in the griefsyndrome/save folder, and see if it has the right modified date and read/write permission.[[User:KM|KM]] 21:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::The folder's empty. Damn... I'm guessing either it auto-deleted upon closure, or it was never created :/ --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, it can only save if it's on the default folder. I reinstalled there and it worked. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 01:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::Mine's in a non-default folder, and it's got up to 677 available. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::::When it wasn't saving, was it outside the default because of being moved after installing, or was it installed in that same non-default folder?[[User:KM|KM]] 18:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Installed outside (in the Program Files folder). --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== Not-Mentioned Bug ==

I've encountered a bug that was not mentioned in the FAQ, so I decided to post it here. The bug makes the fore- and background of the stages (so far only tested on Gertrud Stage) entirely white, the characters and enemies however are correctly displayed. It also causes the game to crash when moving to Gertruds boss room. Does anyone know how to fix this? My PC is on Japanese Locale and my Directx is enough up to date (Dx11). (Also This is my first time editing a wiki,I'm sorry for any errors.) [[User:Anton|Anton]] 09:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed another glitch, though this one isn't that big of a deal. If you're in a boss fight and you pause and return to the title screen, the boss' HP meter stays on the screen. This persists until you restart the game or you get to another boss fight. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Another glitch I found is that if you change any settings using the config.exe, the Esc key, usually only mapped to the menu key, will also be mapped to the player 1 strong attack key. I don't know if this can be fixed, but you can change it back by deleting the config.dat file and copying an original keyconfig.dat file back into the folder. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

== Highest solo clocking? ==

I know that 677's been beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami, but what's the highest known to have been beaten with just 1 player? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:The highest I've seen is a guy on nicovideo soloing lap 100 with Sayaka. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15316097 Is there a video of the guys beating lap 677? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 08:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I've seen vids of Gertrud and Charlotte beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami on 677. That guy lucked out on Kirsten, though. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I've just beaten lap 458 330 with homura... and a truckload of cheating, does that count?-Gniarf
::::Woah my god high lap. How do you cheat at this game? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:20, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::To reach this lap I edited my save0.dat (you just need a zlbib compressor/uncompressor+an hex editor). As for in-game cheating I used cheat engine to lock soul limit and power (set power to 500000, makes enemies die about as fast as in lap1). If you're a bit familiar with cheat engine, soul and power can be accessed via a level 4-5 pointer.(Note: set your level to 99 before changing the power or it will be reset upon level up).
::::::There is no point in locking your health because even if you set it to its maximum (32 000 and a few) you still get one-shot- Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/77.200.213.106|77.200.213.106]] 21:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Hahah, that sounds awesome. Must be fun to spam specials all day. Mami's Tiro Finale could last minutes, hahahah. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 22:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Just solo'd 120, and ran into a bug where it freezes with a black screen before the ending plays. At least it saved the data. [[User:KM|KM]] 23:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I just solo'd 100 and ran into the same bug. This didn't happen when I solo'd lap 80, though...[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
::Cheating does not count. >:( [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

== highest lap for grief syndrome is 1316093285, and its bugged ==

at lap 1316093285, normal monsters die in 1 hit, and they do 0 damage to you, most of the time.... and once in a while they 1 shot you... the problem with this lap... the final lap is, that the harder monsters "bigger" or "mini bosses" not counting gertrud and other real "bosses" are unkillable. in cheat engine i have set my damage to as high as possible, but it ends up overflowing does zero damage, that is why monster does 0 damage to you, and you one hit them, since they have 0 health. but these minibosses seem to have unlimited health, so the only way to kill them, is to shoot them out of the map, there are 2 ways to do this, one is with mami, using the trio finale, with your hp locked, u can hold trio finale for as long as you want, and slowly the monster will rise with you out of the map, and the monster is "killed". this method works in the first 3 chapters, but stops working at the 4th, because these monsters wont bounce upwards, thus i cannot bounce them out of the map... so I am assuming the 2nd way would be the only way to beat it. with homura, machine gun pushes monster side way out of the map, but i am not able to lock the machine gun ammo to more then 18, so i cant seem to push the mini boss out in the 4th chapter, anyone have any idea to lock the ammo for homura? so she can keep firing ?
:To reach that lap, one must beat lap 36278. Since I do not believe this is, in fact, possible without cheating (quite apart from getting hit or anything, your soul limit will tick out), I do not believe this to be a true bug (since it is not obtainable within the game's normal operation). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 01:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::If you want to increase homura's HMG clip size, open gs00.dat with an hex editor, and write ((new_clip_size+1)*5) XOR 0x73737373 at 1A16B083 (the clip size spans over 4 bytes). Alternatively if you REALLY want an unlimited clip size, I remember getting this effect by damaging the loop condition at the end of this firing script (didn't note the exact offset). If you want to look at it, the decryption key is 0x73 for gs00.dat, bytes 1A165AA7-1A1703FB, and the homura HMG firing script spans between 1A16AAFC and 1A16B12B.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 22:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
:::As far as I can tell, you can get an infinite clip size by overwriting the string of four bytes in gs00.dat that read "73297373" at around 1A16B083 with "7373732D". I don't really know what's going on, though, since I didn't intend for that change to have exactly that effect. -[[User:ZetaAspect|ZetaAspect]] 11:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== Which program? ==

Hello.
Sorry for kind of stupid question, but where can I find cv2 converter, because I want convert sprites? I tried google this, but there is only one and it doesn't work.

Thanks for any answer. -[[Special:Contributions/87.101.35.180|87.101.35.180]] 19:11, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
:Did you find a .dat extractor (if so: where?) or did you manually extract the files (if not: I'm wasting my time writing a packer/unpacker)?-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::You can found script for extracting game in Xentax Forum (Doujin Game (.DAT) Extraction (audio)). Though you must register to download this script.
:::Ok that's the quickbms script, doesn't handle repacking and uses a ''dodgy'' way of finding the data decryption key. I guess writing a proper (un)packer is still worth something.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::::OK, maybe I rushed a bit, but here is it! Behold the [http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3C5R0E7Z Griefsyndrome RessOurces Packer and Extractor] (aka GropeSyndrome ;) ). Simply put: it allows you to extract the content of the .dat files, and pack it back. Of course if you want to mod a few things in the meantime it's at your own discretion...
::::For those interested in viewing the content of .cv2 files, you can open them in gimp2 by clicking on the "+Select File Type" in the open dialog, and specifying "Raw image data". On the next dialog box, set Image type="RGB Alpha", offset=17, and you will have to manually find width and height (they are at offset 1 and 5 of the file for those familiar with hex editors).
::::Tip: for data\system\StageSelect\M_homura_B.cv2 width is 128 and height is 384.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:57, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

== Blank when play ==

Well,i've downloaded the game. I installed all setup,regional language setting, and i'm unzip the game. To be honnest,the game runing.JUST ONLY in main menu and character select. When i'm play the game, the game whas blank, no drawing's, black, but i still can see hit's and scores, how can i fix this? --[[Nyan00]]--09:43,6 September 2011

==Stat increases stated in this page are misleading==

While vitality increases at the stated rate for the first few levels (6 for Sayaka, 5 for Mami/Kyouko, 4 for Madoka/Homura), it slows down significantly thereafter - at level 30 or so Homura only gains 1-2 points of vitality per level. The "Per level" entry in the boxes hence can be highly misleading. We should either change it to reflect the average over the 98 level-ups or scrap it and put a table in. Not sure, but I think Soul Limit might be nonlinear as well (I'm 100% sure power doesn't slow down or speed up, though). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 02:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Testing with Homura on lap 677, her vitality increased by 4 each level up to 6 (so she had 108 there) then increased by 3 each level up to 13 (so she had 129 there) then increased by 2 each level up to 19 (so she had 141 there) and increased by 1 each level thereafter (tested up to 28, at which she had 150 vitality). Her soul limit was, however, in perfect agreement with the linear fit given on the page. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 08:01, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-14T02:31:34Z

Magic9mushroom:

This game just taught me something: I'd be a terrible magical girl. That's good to know, at least now I know I shouldn't contract Kyubey if I ever get the chance to... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, the endings for this game make me feel terribly empty inside. It's like how I felt after episode 6 and onwards. Mami, the only one surviving, eating cake alone. Kyouko by herself, chewing an apple. Dammit. At least I felt happy when I killed Charlotte with Mami. Sayaka in the show did much better than me on the hikki TV level. [[User:Holycrap|Holycrap]] 09:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone know what the requirement is for getting the 2nd last picture in the gallery? [[Special:Contributions/220.255.1.48|220.255.1.48]] 02:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:If only Madoka and Sayaka die. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

==Problem here==
I've downloaded the files and everything. However, it is on a .rar file, and I really don't know how it operates. Suggestions?
:It's a compressed file, works just like a .zip. Open it with WinRAR or a similar program. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 03:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I don't have WinRAR on my Windows 7. Do you know of an alternative instead? I am sorry if I am acting as a noob. :(
:::Get WinRAR or 7zip. You'll need it to unzip it. Nothing else but to get the program. [[Special:Contributions/128.54.205.243|128.54.205.243]] 16:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Once I unzip, I will be able to play? Edit: I unzipped the files, but there seems to be something missing. It won't let me play, and I downloaded the appropriate .dll file. http://i51.tinypic.com/juwfvr.png
:Go to start and run "dxdiag". Then go the "Display" tab. Below there should be three options. "DirectDraw,Direct3D and AGP Texture Acceleration. Make sure that they are all enabled. The message you received means that your "Direct3D" is either not available or disabled. Enable all of them and you should be able to play. :D --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Stat box ==

Can one of our wikicode magicians make a stat box for the mahou shoujo sections? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Shamelessly copypasting the infobox for characters, I suggest you one of the two variants below. I personally perfer the first (vertical) one. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::I actually thinks the second version look better. Also, it's shorter length means less blank toolbox only space on the thread. Can we get another opinion on this one? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 20:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Actually, the only thing that bugs me with the horizontal version is that I don't know how to label the columns, especially the last one ... "Growth per level" is a bit too long, "Per level", "growth per lvl" or "growth/level" don't look or sound to good... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I think per level looks fine, it's similar to how we do in [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine another wiki] that I help out on. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::I added the info boxes. They look pretty awesome. Thanks for providing the template, Homerun-chan.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="2" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=92
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=10
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=28875
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=SL lost in revive
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=9.6%
}}<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Growth per level</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+4
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+1
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+128
}}</table>

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

{{-}}

==help!==

i tried to download it but i can't find where on the page the download thingy is, i clicked on everything and no dice [[User:Paige|Paige]] 15:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

:Check the latest thread here http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Threads#Grief_Syndrome
:i can't make sense of that site either, no handy screen shots or can't you download it on the grief syndrome site? am i the only person having problems with it? *sigh* [[User:Paige|Paige]] 20:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::You can't figure out how to download it from here? http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53407713 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 20:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::>can't you download it on the grief syndrome site?<br>It's a game that got released (read "sold") at Comiket, so it's not really meant to be distributed for free. You should be able to find it if you know where to look or how to use Google though (or easymodo for that matter). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Umm,I wanted to download the file but,I can't find the download link, did someone tell me where is the download link? Please help me. --[[Mirai-mirai]] 18:39, 3 september 2011
:Use the megaupload link on this thread posted. http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53382856 --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 18:45, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Are I really need gamepads for play this game? For single player too? Can I play this game with only keyboards? --[[Mirai-mirai]] 15.27, 4 September 2011
:No. Keyboards can be used to play this game. The controls shoulb be on the main page of this game here in the wiki. If the controls does not work,open Config and configure your controls . --[[User:SailorRainbow001|SailorRainbow001]] 12:37, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I am really confused on how to change the BGM. I've tried a whole bunch of times, but I can't figure it out. I noticed it is in the FAQ section. --[[User:Ploppypop|Ploppypop]] 8:19pm, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

==Moemura?!==
[[File:Moemura grief syndrome.jpg|right|300px]]
Anyone know how to get her? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:It's a drawing from 2ch, it's not real. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
::Being a fan is suffering --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, that's NOT a drawing. That image (and the relevant sprites) indeed can be found in the game's resources. Conditions of obtaining Moe-Homura are unknown yet, sorry. [[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 11:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm pretty sure from the context I saw it in that the image was in fact a fan altered one from a real image. However, I didn't know that they pulled the Moemura image from the game files so that it could this screen could be real if conditions were met assuming the game allows it. You'd think if someone had figured it out by now there'd be a vid or gameplay images with Moemura by now. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Likely it's a dropped character. It's commonplace for game developers to leave unused artifacts within the games. If there is a way to unlock it, though, it would be good. Let's not forget that they can also implement it in the future. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Now that I gained access to the game ressources, I can confirm that:
::::::a-The "Moe"mura image is indeed part of the game files.
::::::b-There is no additional gameplay sprites for "Moe"mura.
::::::However the "Moe"mura image shown on this screenshot (M_homura_B.cv2) is referenced in 2 scripts: StagePause.act and StageSelect.act. So if it's not leftover artefacts (but imo BrickBreak is right on this) you can expect at best a menu image change, and perhaps some stats change too, nothing more.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 20:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I heard that they released a patch to enable Moemura. But since I am outside Japan and unable to get access to their website, I cannot confirm that. Besides, QB may be controlled after the patch if there are fewer characters alive in multi-play mode. For example, if there are 3 players but only 2 available, the 3rd player can select one of other characters but will be replaced by QB in game. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
:You are indeed correct. I'm trying out the patch now and to play as Moemura you press up while your cursor is on Homura's portrait. Pretty amusing. Press down on Moemura to switch back to Homura. Haven't checked out QB yet. Pretty cool update, though. Hopefully they've fixed the bugs in the game, too. Thanks for the info! [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 20:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== All endings ==

So as I see, someone aded thelast unknown trophy.
What are the endings known this far and how can they be obtained?
[[Special:Contributions/91.202.255.7|91.202.255.7]] 05:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

:I added an endings section to the main page that includes known endings and conditions. This doesn't seem to be all of them, though, since I believe I've gotten all mentioned and haven't yet gotten the trophy. Anyone know of other endings? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

All the 1 person surviving and 4 people surviving endings have been confirmed except for only Madoka surviving, but I feel like odds are good that that will end up with the default Homura ending. If anyone else could check some of these out, too, that'd be great.
[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Only Madoka surviving is confirmed to give you the Homura waking up in bed ending. (Oktavia not killed, but I don't think that matters).[[User:KM|KM]] 23:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks for checking that. I don't think it matters if Oktavia is killed or not, either, as long as you get Oktavia because Sayaka died.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 06:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, all ending possibilities have been checked. And after having checked them all I didn't get the third trophy, so that seems incorrect. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: So you've checked all 32 possibilities (I believe mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht is possible), and you don't have the third trophy? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I checked every single possibility except only Madoka surviving ending, which KM checked. I still don't have the third trophy, sadly. I didn't check a mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht, but I don't think that would result in a different ending... I'm starting to think that my original guess that the third trophy is "Beat the game without getting hit" might be correct after all. The ordering of the trophies have been such that a silver trophy will be awarded for a given condition and the trophy below will be a gold one with a condition similar but more difficult than the one preceding it. The second trophy is beat the game without any downs, so I think not getting hit is a logical possibility. Not getting hit even once is really difficult, though, due to the random nature that the enemies in the game attack. But if this is the correct condition, then maybe that explains why it hasn't been confirmed yet. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::I've took a peek at the game resources again and translated the third trophy for ya. It seems there's a bug in Tasofro's bytecode, so the flag for this trophy never sets. Instead of marking it as "???", I suggest to write a notice "Unobtainable due to a bug". --[[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 21:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Well that... sucks... Thanks for the info, though. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
::::I think we do need to check "everyone dies", since as THE hardest ending to obtain it would be the most likely to have a secret (as for how to do it, I'd suggest kill everyone else, do WPGN with Madoka, get both of them to low health, do Madoka's ulti and then jump off the map). As far as not getting hit, the hardest bit would be Kirsten's stage. Everything else can be done without getting hit through overuse of time stop, but Kirsten's minions love to attack from offscreen. I'd suggest grinding Homura to 99 on Gertrud's or Charlotte's stage (Gertrud's stage is more dangerous, but Charlotte herself is more dangerous with her sky attack) before taking on Kirsten to secure additional time stop uses. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::I've actually tried to die by falling off the screen after killing Walpurgisnacht before, just to see what would happen. You don't die, you just kind of chill out at the bottom of the screen waiting for Walpurgisnacht to die and then you fall and land on the ground like usual. I've also checked if everyone dies and it results, predictably, in a game over. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::: That wasn't what I meant. I meant falling off the screen or otherwise dying before the last attack hits. So with Homura, for example, setting up a flare and getting shot before it fires. Madoka would be the easiest with her ulti's stupidly high damage. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Hey so the version 1.10 patch came out today and it fixed the glitch with the third trophy not appearing. The 10 endings listed in the ending section are confirmed to be the only endings as I now have the trophy without having beaten the game again. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

== Laps not saved ==

Well, I completed the first lap, and utterly failed on the second (was trying to go with Mami, let everyone else die, didn't farmed enough lv's to make up for her crappyness). Back to the main menu, still with the stats and the choice of which lap to with. I close the game, and open it again just to be sure. Everything's gone. Wasn't it supposed to save after a lap? --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Look for a save0.dat file in the griefsyndrome/save folder, and see if it has the right modified date and read/write permission.[[User:KM|KM]] 21:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::The folder's empty. Damn... I'm guessing either it auto-deleted upon closure, or it was never created :/ --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, it can only save if it's on the default folder. I reinstalled there and it worked. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 01:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::Mine's in a non-default folder, and it's got up to 677 available. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::::When it wasn't saving, was it outside the default because of being moved after installing, or was it installed in that same non-default folder?[[User:KM|KM]] 18:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Installed outside (in the Program Files folder). --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== Not-Mentioned Bug ==

I've encountered a bug that was not mentioned in the FAQ, so I decided to post it here. The bug makes the fore- and background of the stages (so far only tested on Gertrud Stage) entirely white, the characters and enemies however are correctly displayed. It also causes the game to crash when moving to Gertruds boss room. Does anyone know how to fix this? My PC is on Japanese Locale and my Directx is enough up to date (Dx11). (Also This is my first time editing a wiki,I'm sorry for any errors.) [[User:Anton|Anton]] 09:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed another glitch, though this one isn't that big of a deal. If you're in a boss fight and you pause and return to the title screen, the boss' HP meter stays on the screen. This persists until you restart the game or you get to another boss fight. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Another glitch I found is that if you change any settings using the config.exe, the Esc key, usually only mapped to the menu key, will also be mapped to the player 1 strong attack key. I don't know if this can be fixed, but you can change it back by deleting the config.dat file and copying an original keyconfig.dat file back into the folder. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

== Highest solo clocking? ==

I know that 677's been beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami, but what's the highest known to have been beaten with just 1 player? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:The highest I've seen is a guy on nicovideo soloing lap 100 with Sayaka. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15316097 Is there a video of the guys beating lap 677? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 08:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I've seen vids of Gertrud and Charlotte beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami on 677. That guy lucked out on Kirsten, though. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I've just beaten lap 458 330 with homura... and a truckload of cheating, does that count?-Gniarf
::::Woah my god high lap. How do you cheat at this game? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:20, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::To reach this lap I edited my save0.dat (you just need a zlbib compressor/uncompressor+an hex editor). As for in-game cheating I used cheat engine to lock soul limit and power (set power to 500000, makes enemies die about as fast as in lap1). If you're a bit familiar with cheat engine, soul and power can be accessed via a level 4-5 pointer.(Note: set your level to 99 before changing the power or it will be reset upon level up).
::::::There is no point in locking your health because even if you set it to its maximum (32 000 and a few) you still get one-shot- Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/77.200.213.106|77.200.213.106]] 21:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Hahah, that sounds awesome. Must be fun to spam specials all day. Mami's Tiro Finale could last minutes, hahahah. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 22:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Just solo'd 120, and ran into a bug where it freezes with a black screen before the ending plays. At least it saved the data. [[User:KM|KM]] 23:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I just solo'd 100 and ran into the same bug. This didn't happen when I solo'd lap 80, though...[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
::Cheating does not count. >:( [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

== highest lap for grief syndrome is 1316093285, and its bugged ==

at lap 1316093285, normal monsters die in 1 hit, and they do 0 damage to you, most of the time.... and once in a while they 1 shot you... the problem with this lap... the final lap is, that the harder monsters "bigger" or "mini bosses" not counting gertrud and other real "bosses" are unkillable. in cheat engine i have set my damage to as high as possible, but it ends up overflowing does zero damage, that is why monster does 0 damage to you, and you one hit them, since they have 0 health. but these minibosses seem to have unlimited health, so the only way to kill them, is to shoot them out of the map, there are 2 ways to do this, one is with mami, using the trio finale, with your hp locked, u can hold trio finale for as long as you want, and slowly the monster will rise with you out of the map, and the monster is "killed". this method works in the first 3 chapters, but stops working at the 4th, because these monsters wont bounce upwards, thus i cannot bounce them out of the map... so I am assuming the 2nd way would be the only way to beat it. with homura, machine gun pushes monster side way out of the map, but i am not able to lock the machine gun ammo to more then 18, so i cant seem to push the mini boss out in the 4th chapter, anyone have any idea to lock the ammo for homura? so she can keep firing ?
:To reach that lap, one must beat lap 36278. Since I do not believe this is, in fact, possible without cheating (quite apart from getting hit or anything, your soul limit will tick out), I do not believe this to be a true bug (since it is not obtainable within the game's normal operation). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 01:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::If you want to increase homura's HMG clip size, open gs00.dat with an hex editor, and write ((new_clip_size+1)*5) XOR 0x73737373 at 1A16B083 (the clip size spans over 4 bytes). Alternatively if you REALLY want an unlimited clip size, I remember getting this effect by damaging the loop condition at the end of this firing script (didn't note the exact offset). If you want to look at it, the decryption key is 0x73 for gs00.dat, bytes 1A165AA7-1A1703FB, and the homura HMG firing script spans between 1A16AAFC and 1A16B12B.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 22:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
:::As far as I can tell, you can get an infinite clip size by overwriting the string of four bytes in gs00.dat that read "73297373" at around 1A16B083 with "7373732D". I don't really know what's going on, though, since I didn't intend for that change to have exactly that effect. -[[User:ZetaAspect|ZetaAspect]] 11:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

== Which program? ==

Hello.
Sorry for kind of stupid question, but where can I find cv2 converter, because I want convert sprites? I tried google this, but there is only one and it doesn't work.

Thanks for any answer. -[[Special:Contributions/87.101.35.180|87.101.35.180]] 19:11, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
:Did you find a .dat extractor (if so: where?) or did you manually extract the files (if not: I'm wasting my time writing a packer/unpacker)?-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::You can found script for extracting game in Xentax Forum (Doujin Game (.DAT) Extraction (audio)). Though you must register to download this script.
:::Ok that's the quickbms script, doesn't handle repacking and uses a ''dodgy'' way of finding the data decryption key. I guess writing a proper (un)packer is still worth something.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::::OK, maybe I rushed a bit, but here is it! Behold the [http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3C5R0E7Z Griefsyndrome RessOurces Packer and Extractor] (aka GropeSyndrome ;) ). Simply put: it allows you to extract the content of the .dat files, and pack it back. Of course if you want to mod a few things in the meantime it's at your own discretion...
::::For those interested in viewing the content of .cv2 files, you can open them in gimp2 by clicking on the "+Select File Type" in the open dialog, and specifying "Raw image data". On the next dialog box, set Image type="RGB Alpha", offset=17, and you will have to manually find width and height (they are at offset 1 and 5 of the file for those familiar with hex editors).
::::Tip: for data\system\StageSelect\M_homura_B.cv2 width is 128 and height is 384.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:57, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

== Blank when play ==

Well,i've downloaded the game. I installed all setup,regional language setting, and i'm unzip the game. To be honnest,the game runing.JUST ONLY in main menu and character select. When i'm play the game, the game whas blank, no drawing's, black, but i still can see hit's and scores, how can i fix this? --[[Nyan00]]--09:43,6 September 2011

==Stat increases stated in this page are misleading==

While vitality increases at the stated rate for the first few levels (6 for Sayaka, 5 for Mami/Kyouko, 4 for Madoka/Homura), it slows down significantly thereafter - at level 30 or so Homura only gains 1-2 points of vitality per level. The "Per level" entry in the boxes hence can be highly misleading. We should either change it to reflect the average over the 98 level-ups or scrap it and put a table in. Not sure, but I think Soul Limit might be nonlinear as well (I'm 100% sure power doesn't slow down or speed up, though). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 02:31, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-08T00:54:03Z

Magic9mushroom: /* All endings */

This game just taught me something: I'd be a terrible magical girl. That's good to know, at least now I know I shouldn't contract Kyubey if I ever get the chance to... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, the endings for this game make me feel terribly empty inside. It's like how I felt after episode 6 and onwards. Mami, the only one surviving, eating cake alone. Kyouko by herself, chewing an apple. Dammit. At least I felt happy when I killed Charlotte with Mami. Sayaka in the show did much better than me on the hikki TV level. [[User:Holycrap|Holycrap]] 09:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone know what the requirement is for getting the 2nd last picture in the gallery? [[Special:Contributions/220.255.1.48|220.255.1.48]] 02:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:If only Madoka and Sayaka die. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

==Problem here==
I've downloaded the files and everything. However, it is on a .rar file, and I really don't know how it operates. Suggestions?
:It's a compressed file, works just like a .zip. Open it with WinRAR or a similar program. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 03:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I don't have WinRAR on my Windows 7. Do you know of an alternative instead? I am sorry if I am acting as a noob. :(
:::Get WinRAR or 7zip. You'll need it to unzip it. Nothing else but to get the program. [[Special:Contributions/128.54.205.243|128.54.205.243]] 16:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::Once I unzip, I will be able to play? Edit: I unzipped the files, but there seems to be something missing. It won't let me play, and I downloaded the appropriate .dll file. http://i51.tinypic.com/juwfvr.png

== Stat box ==

Can one of our wikicode magicians make a stat box for the mahou shoujo sections? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
:Shamelessly copypasting the infobox for characters, I suggest you one of the two variants below. I personally perfer the first (vertical) one. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::I actually thinks the second version look better. Also, it's shorter length means less blank toolbox only space on the thread. Can we get another opinion on this one? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 20:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Actually, the only thing that bugs me with the horizontal version is that I don't know how to label the columns, especially the last one ... "Growth per level" is a bit too long, "Per level", "growth per lvl" or "growth/level" don't look or sound to good... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I think per level looks fine, it's similar to how we do in [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine another wiki] that I help out on. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::I added the info boxes. They look pretty awesome. Thanks for providing the template, Homerun-chan.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="2" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=92
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=10
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=28875
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=SL lost in revive
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=9.6%
}}<tr><td colspan="2" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Growth per level</td></tr>
{{Infobox/row
|label=Vitality
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+4
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Power
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+1
}}{{Infobox/row
|label=Soul limit
|labelstyle=background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;
|data=+128
}}</table>

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:left;clear:left;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Status base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

{{-}}

==help!==

i tried to download it but i can't find where on the page the download thingy is, i clicked on everything and no dice [[User:Paige|Paige]] 15:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

:Check the latest thread here http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Threads#Grief_Syndrome
:i can't make sense of that site either, no handy screen shots or can't you download it on the grief syndrome site? am i the only person having problems with it? *sigh* [[User:Paige|Paige]] 20:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::You can't figure out how to download it from here? http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53407713 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 20:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
::>can't you download it on the grief syndrome site?<br>It's a game that got released (read "sold") at Comiket, so it's not really meant to be distributed for free. You should be able to find it if you know where to look or how to use Google though (or easymodo for that matter). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:41, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Umm,I wanted to download the file but,I can't find the download link, did someone tell me where is the download link? Please help me. --[[Mirai-mirai]] 18:39, 3 september 2011
:Use the megaupload link on this thread posted. http://archive.easymodo.net/a/thread/53382856 --[[User:Riga92|Riga92]] 18:45, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Are I really need gamepads for play this game? For single player too? Can I play this game with only keyboards? --[[Mirai-mirai]] 15.27, 4 September 2011

==Moemura?!==
[[File:Moemura grief syndrome.jpg|right|300px]]
Anyone know how to get her? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:It's a drawing from 2ch, it's not real. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
::Being a fan is suffering --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, that's NOT a drawing. That image (and the relevant sprites) indeed can be found in the game's resources. Conditions of obtaining Moe-Homura are unknown yet, sorry. [[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 11:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm pretty sure from the context I saw it in that the image was in fact a fan altered one from a real image. However, I didn't know that they pulled the Moemura image from the game files so that it could this screen could be real if conditions were met assuming the game allows it. You'd think if someone had figured it out by now there'd be a vid or gameplay images with Moemura by now. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Likely it's a dropped character. It's commonplace for game developers to leave unused artifacts within the games. If there is a way to unlock it, though, it would be good. Let's not forget that they can also implement it in the future. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Now that I gained access to the game ressources, I can confirm that:
::::::a-The "Moe"mura image is indeed part of the game files.
::::::b-There is no additional gameplay sprites for "Moe"mura.
::::::However the "Moe"mura image shown on this screenshot (M_homura_B.cv2) is referenced in 2 scripts: StagePause.act and StageSelect.act. So if it's not leftover artefacts (but imo BrickBreak is right on this) you can expect at best a menu image change, and perhaps some stats change too, nothing more.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 20:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

== All endings ==

So as I see, someone aded thelast unknown trophy.
What are the endings known this far and how can they be obtained?
[[Special:Contributions/91.202.255.7|91.202.255.7]] 05:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

:I added an endings section to the main page that includes known endings and conditions. This doesn't seem to be all of them, though, since I believe I've gotten all mentioned and haven't yet gotten the trophy. Anyone know of other endings? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:27, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

All the 1 person surviving and 4 people surviving endings have been confirmed except for only Madoka surviving, but I feel like odds are good that that will end up with the default Homura ending. If anyone else could check some of these out, too, that'd be great.
[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Only Madoka surviving is confirmed to give you the Homura waking up in bed ending. (Oktavia not killed, but I don't think that matters).[[User:KM|KM]] 23:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks for checking that. I don't think it matters if Oktavia is killed or not, either, as long as you get Oktavia because Sayaka died.[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 06:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Okay, all ending possibilities have been checked. And after having checked them all I didn't get the third trophy, so that seems incorrect. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:::: So you've checked all 32 possibilities (I believe mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht is possible), and you don't have the third trophy? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, I checked every single possibility except only Madoka surviving ending, which KM checked. I still don't have the third trophy, sadly. I didn't check a mutual kill on Walpurgisnacht, but I don't think that would result in a different ending... I'm starting to think that my original guess that the third trophy is "Beat the game without getting hit" might be correct after all. The ordering of the trophies have been such that a silver trophy will be awarded for a given condition and the trophy below will be a gold one with a condition similar but more difficult than the one preceding it. The second trophy is beat the game without any downs, so I think not getting hit is a logical possibility. Not getting hit even once is really difficult, though, due to the random nature that the enemies in the game attack. But if this is the correct condition, then maybe that explains why it hasn't been confirmed yet. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 17:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::I've took a peek at the game resources again and translated the third trophy for ya. It seems there's a bug in Tasofro's bytecode, so the flag for this trophy never sets. Instead of marking it as "???", I suggest to write a notice "Unobtainable due to a bug". --[[User:MrChow|MrChow]] 21:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Well that... sucks... Thanks for the info, though. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
::::I think we do need to check "everyone dies", since as THE hardest ending to obtain it would be the most likely to have a secret (as for how to do it, I'd suggest kill everyone else, do WPGN with Madoka, get both of them to low health, do Madoka's ulti and then jump off the map). As far as not getting hit, the hardest bit would be Kirsten's stage. Everything else can be done without getting hit through overuse of time stop, but Kirsten's minions love to attack from offscreen. I'd suggest grinding Homura to 99 on Gertrud's or Charlotte's stage (Gertrud's stage is more dangerous, but Charlotte herself is more dangerous with her sky attack) before taking on Kirsten to secure additional time stop uses. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:13, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
:::::I've actually tried to die by falling off the screen after killing Walpurgisnacht before, just to see what would happen. You don't die, you just kind of chill out at the bottom of the screen waiting for Walpurgisnacht to die and then you fall and land on the ground like usual. I've also checked if everyone dies and it results, predictably, in a game over. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 23:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::: That wasn't what I meant. I meant falling off the screen or otherwise dying before the last attack hits. So with Homura, for example, setting up a flare and getting shot before it fires. Madoka would be the easiest with her ulti's stupidly high damage. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

== Laps not saved ==

Well, I completed the first lap, and utterly failed on the second (was trying to go with Mami, let everyone else die, didn't farmed enough lv's to make up for her crappyness). Back to the main menu, still with the stats and the choice of which lap to with. I close the game, and open it again just to be sure. Everything's gone. Wasn't it supposed to save after a lap? --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:Look for a save0.dat file in the griefsyndrome/save folder, and see if it has the right modified date and read/write permission.[[User:KM|KM]] 21:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
::The folder's empty. Damn... I'm guessing either it auto-deleted upon closure, or it was never created :/ --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Apparently, it can only save if it's on the default folder. I reinstalled there and it worked. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 01:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::Mine's in a non-default folder, and it's got up to 677 available. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
::::When it wasn't saving, was it outside the default because of being moved after installing, or was it installed in that same non-default folder?[[User:KM|KM]] 18:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::Installed outside (in the Program Files folder). --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

== Not-Mentioned Bug ==

I've encountered a bug that was not mentioned in the FAQ, so I decided to post it here. The bug makes the fore- and background of the stages (so far only tested on Gertrud Stage) entirely white, the characters and enemies however are correctly displayed. It also causes the game to crash when moving to Gertruds boss room. Does anyone know how to fix this? My PC is on Japanese Locale and my Directx is enough up to date (Dx11). (Also This is my first time editing a wiki,I'm sorry for any errors.) [[User:Anton|Anton]] 09:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed another glitch, though this one isn't that big of a deal. If you're in a boss fight and you pause and return to the title screen, the boss' HP meter stays on the screen. This persists until you restart the game or you get to another boss fight. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Another glitch I found is that if you change any settings using the config.exe, the Esc key, usually only mapped to the menu key, will also be mapped to the player 1 strong attack key. I don't know if this can be fixed, but you can change it back by deleting the config.dat file and copying an original keyconfig.dat file back into the folder. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 11:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

== Highest solo clocking? ==

I know that 677's been beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami, but what's the highest known to have been beaten with just 1 player? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
:The highest I've seen is a guy on nicovideo soloing lap 100 with Sayaka. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15316097 Is there a video of the guys beating lap 677? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 08:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::I've seen vids of Gertrud and Charlotte beaten with Homura/Madoka/Mami on 677. That guy lucked out on Kirsten, though. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::I've just beaten lap 458 330 with homura... and a truckload of cheating, does that count?-Gniarf
::::Woah my god high lap. How do you cheat at this game? [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 15:20, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::::To reach this lap I edited my save0.dat (you just need a zlbib compressor/uncompressor+an hex editor). As for in-game cheating I used cheat engine to lock soul limit and power (set power to 500000, makes enemies die about as fast as in lap1). If you're a bit familiar with cheat engine, soul and power can be accessed via a level 4-5 pointer.(Note: set your level to 99 before changing the power or it will be reset upon level up).
::::::There is no point in locking your health because even if you set it to its maximum (32 000 and a few) you still get one-shot- Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/77.200.213.106|77.200.213.106]] 21:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::::Hahah, that sounds awesome. Must be fun to spam specials all day. Mami's Tiro Finale could last minutes, hahahah. [[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 22:44, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
:::Just solo'd 120, and ran into a bug where it freezes with a black screen before the ending plays. At least it saved the data. [[User:KM|KM]] 23:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
::::I just solo'd 100 and ran into the same bug. This didn't happen when I solo'd lap 80, though...[[User:Lig0schndr|Lig0schndr]] 00:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
::Cheating does not count. >:( [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 04:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

== highest lap for grief syndrome is 1316093285, and its bugged ==

at lap 1316093285, normal monsters die in 1 hit, and they do 0 damage to you, most of the time.... and once in a while they 1 shot you... the problem with this lap... the final lap is, that the harder monsters "bigger" or "mini bosses" not counting gertrud and other real "bosses" are unkillable. in cheat engine i have set my damage to as high as possible, but it ends up overflowing does zero damage, that is why monster does 0 damage to you, and you one hit them, since they have 0 health. but these minibosses seem to have unlimited health, so the only way to kill them, is to shoot them out of the map, there are 2 ways to do this, one is with mami, using the trio finale, with your hp locked, u can hold trio finale for as long as you want, and slowly the monster will rise with you out of the map, and the monster is "killed". this method works in the first 3 chapters, but stops working at the 4th, because these monsters wont bounce upwards, thus i cannot bounce them out of the map... so I am assuming the 2nd way would be the only way to beat it. with homura, machine gun pushes monster side way out of the map, but i am not able to lock the machine gun ammo to more then 18, so i cant seem to push the mini boss out in the 4th chapter, anyone have any idea to lock the ammo for homura? so she can keep firing ?
:To reach that lap, one must beat lap 36278. Since I do not believe this is, in fact, possible without cheating (quite apart from getting hit or anything, your soul limit will tick out), I do not believe this to be a true bug (since it is not obtainable within the game's normal operation). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 01:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::If you want to increase homura's HMG clip size, open gs00.dat with an hex editor, and write ((new_clip_size+1)*5) XOR 0x73737373 at 1A16B083 (the clip size spans over 4 bytes). Alternatively if you REALLY want an unlimited clip size, I remember getting this effect by damaging the loop condition at the end of this firing script (didn't note the exact offset). If you want to look at it, the decryption key is 0x73 for gs00.dat, bytes 1A165AA7-1A1703FB, and the homura HMG firing script spans between 1A16AAFC and 1A16B12B.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 22:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

== Which program? ==

Hello.
Sorry for kind of stupid question, but where can I find cv2 converter, because I want convert sprites? I tried google this, but there is only one and it doesn't work.

Thanks for any answer. -[[Special:Contributions/87.101.35.180|87.101.35.180]] 19:11, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
:Did you find a .dat extractor (if so: where?) or did you manually extract the files (if not: I'm wasting my time writing a packer/unpacker)?-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::You can found script for extracting game in Xentax Forum (Doujin Game (.DAT) Extraction (audio)). Though you must register to download this script.
:::Ok that's the quickbms script, doesn't handle repacking and uses a ''dodgy'' way of finding the data decryption key. I guess writing a proper (un)packer is still worth something.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
::::OK, maybe I rushed a bit, but here is it! Behold the [http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3C5R0E7Z Griefsyndrome RessOurces Packer and Extractor] (aka GropeSyndrome ;) ). Simply put: it allows you to extract the content of the .dat files, and pack it back. Of course if you want to mod a few things in the meantime it's at your own discretion...
::::For those interested in viewing the content of .cv2 files, you can open them in gimp2 by clicking on the "+Select File Type" in the open dialog, and specifying "Raw image data". On the next dialog box, set Image type="RGB Alpha", offset=17, and you will have to manually find width and height (they are at offset 1 and 5 of the file for those familiar with hex editors).
::::Tip: for data\system\StageSelect\M_homura_B.cv2 width is 128 and height is 384.-Gniarf [[Special:Contributions/84.98.184.200|84.98.184.200]] 19:57, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

== Blank when play ==

Well,i've downloaded the game. I installed all setup,regional language setting, and i'm unzip the game. To be honnest,the game runing.JUST ONLY in main menu and character select. When i'm play the game, the game whas blank, no drawing's, black, but i still can see hit's and scores, how can i fix this? --[[Nyan00]]--09:43,6 September 2011

Community:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-06T23:47:30Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Trophies */ Assuming MrChow was right, this should be noted.

[[File:Griefsyndrome.jpg|350px|thumb|right|]]
[[Image:Twilightfrontier.png | http://www.tasofro.net]]

[http://www.tasofro.net/mdk/ Grief Syndrome] is a doujin game by [http://www.tasofro.net Twilight Frontier] (also known as Tasofro) which was released at Comiket 80 on August 13, 2011. It is a side-scrolling beat-em-up featuring the characters of Puella Magi Madoka Magica. 1 to 3 players can play with local (all gamepads/keyboards connected to the same computer) multiplayer.

==Frequently Asked Questions==
*Online multiplayer where?
:The game doesn't support online play. Earlier Tasofro games have had online multiplayer, so there may be some hope of an update if the game is successful.
*How do I play multiplayer?
:First you need to assign keys for other players using the configuration program. Then at the character select screen players 2 and 3 can join by pressing their select buttons (weak attack).
*Do I need an English translation?
:No, many things are already in English and the game is playable with no knowledge of Japanese.
*Error: d3dx9_43.dll not found
:Open the directx folder that comes with the installer and run DXSETUP.exe or download the dll and place it into game folder next to griefsyndrome.exe
*It still won't run.
:Try setting your system locale to JAP in the Region and Language Settings, then restart.
*How do you save the game?
:The game saves your lap and some statistics when you defeat Walpurgis Night. You can't save in the middle of a run or keep levels unlocked between runs. Make sure the game is in its default directory and that it has write permission.
*How do you use full screen?
:Alt+Enter. You can use the configuration program to enable the full screen feature.
*The kyubey icon/configuration program won't open even though the game is not running
:Set the compatibility mode to NT 4.0 and run the program as Administrator
*Is there a way to change the BGM?
:The BGM music data file is the one labeled GS01.dat. You will need an extractor/ dat compiler to do this
*How do I check my trophies?
:They can be found on the menu screen during game play.

==Gameplay==

Players begin a new game in Gertrud's level. They must fight through each level in sequence, defeating Gertrud, Charlotte, Elly, Elsa Maria, and Walpurgis Night. A bonus Oktavia level is unlocked if Sayaka dies. Magical girls cannot be resurrected when they run out of soul limit, except by restarting the game from the beginning and discarding all current progress.

Magical girls have health bars and soul limit counters. Permanent death occurs when the soul limit reaches zero. The health bar is recharged by consuming soul limit after taking damage. When the health bar becomes empty or the girl falls down a deadly pit, a percentage of her soul limit points is consumed to construct a new body for her. Using special abilities turns part of the health bar blue. No soul limit is lost if it recharges while still blue, but taking any damage during this period will turn the blue area into additional damage.

Defeating enemies causes the girls to level up, increasing their damage output and survivability. The maximum level is 99. The soul limit is fully recharged after defeating a witch.

Defeating Walpurgis Night completes a lap. One of many ending screens is displayed depending on which girls remain alive, and your game is saved. You can start a new game from the next lap. As lap number increases, enemy attack power and health increases, so the game becomes more difficult, but the girls will also level up more quickly. Unlike the girls, the bosses can have levels over 99. On the higher laps, their levels will even be in the thousands, if not tens of thousands.

The highest lap known to be unlocked so far is 458330. Lap numbers are unlocked based this formula: highest lap beaten squared plus one.<br>
lap 1^2+1=2<br>
lap 2^2+1=5<br>
lap 5^2+1=26<br>
lap 26^2+1=677<br>
lap 677^2+1=458330<br>

It is not technically possible to reach lap 458330^2+1=210 066 388 901 due to some modern day computer limitations (signed 32bit integers that cannot store values above 2,147,483,648). If you do beat lap 458330 the game hangs before displaying the staff roll. The highest lap number one can beat without freezing the game would be lap 46340, unlocking lap 2,147,395,601 (since 46341^2+1=2,147,488,282, which is slightly over the limit).

==Controls==
*Left, Right: Move sideways
*Up, Down: Aim or use alternate attacks in combination with the Z and X keys
*Z: Quick/Weak attack (select at menu screens)
*X: Strong attack (go back at menu screens)
*A: Special Ability
*C: Jump. Hold down and press C while standing on platforms to drop through.
*Q: Menu
*Esc: Menu

Some players use a number pad mapping terminology to name moves. For example, "8Z x2 j.6X" The first number is a position on the number pad: 8=up, 6=right, 2=down, 5=neutral, corresponding to how a joystick would work. The letter after it is the default key for that ability. x followed by a number means repeat it that many times. "j." means to do it while jumping.

At the menu screen during game play the options available are:
*Restart the game
*Return to the title
*Erase the menu
"Restart the game" just means resume playing. Can also be invoked by pressing the menu button. "Erase the menu" just means show the currently paused screen without the menu. Pressing back (strong attack) will bring you back to the normal menu. Return to the title does as stated.

==Configuration==
The program with a Kyubey icon allows you to configure the game. Make sure the game is not running when you use it.

[[File:GriefSyndromeConfig.png | 300px]]

Click the box of the key you want to change and then press the key you want to change it to. Pressing the Esc key will clear that key.

One popular modification is changing the jump key to space. The configuration program also allows you to mute the sound or enable full screen.

If the controls menu does not open, and you're not in Windows 7, try activating NT compatibility mode in properties. There has been a report of a bug that only allows one key to be changed at a time.

==Characters==

===Madoka===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Base stat</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">45</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Madoka is a ranged attacker who relies on charging up abilities. She can use cheap tactics to rain destruction on enemies without allowing them any opportunity to fight back, and possesses a huge soul limit, but she is vulnerable to being interrupted while charging attacks, has a limited set of abilities, and her main attacks require precise aiming.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Fire a barrage of arrows. Holding the attack button down allows you to charge the attack up to 2 levels. Doing so increases the number of arrows fired. Holding up or down while starting the attack causes Madoka to aim upwards or downwards at 45 degree angles. Each arrow disappears after hitting once and has weak knock back. Pushes back both small and large enemies.
**No charge fires 3 arrows.
**1 level charged fires 7 arrows.
**2 levels charged (max) fires 14 arrows.
*Strong Attack: Fire a piercing arrow horizontally that knock back into a wall bounce. Holding the key down causes Madoka to charge up for higher damage and stronger properties.
**No charge pierces 2 enemies and hits a 3rd and has weak knock back.
**1 level charged pierces any number of enemies and will hit enemies all the way into the wall.
**2 levels charged (max) pierces any number of enemies and will hit enemies all the way into the wall. Has a much larger hitbox than the previous level of charge (can hit enemies standing on her) and does over twice as much damage.
*Special: Shoots a single arrow straight up, and then 60 arrows rain from the sky, damaging all enemies near Madoka, for a total of 61 hits. The shower will knock down enemies.
*Charging: While charging up attacks, Madoka can float in the air. She can do this indefinitely, staying out of an enemy's reach.
*Idle: Madoka looks super cute.

Review/Tips:
Madoka has the most SL out of the characters, both starting and growth rate. Don't take her charging shots for granted, they are very effective in stunning/controlling mobs of enemies, especially with their knock back. All her moves essentially put the enemies in a stun state and do quick and rapid damage. To get out of a crowded situation you can fire her special as a canopy of safety; while it rains death on the enemy you are being protected at the same time. Not bad eh? When she fires her bow in midair, it creates a magical platform where she is suspended for a few seconds. Madoka can "store" a charge of the quick attack by jumping after charging it 1 or 2 levels. You can also store a charge by using a fully charged strong attack or just charging it to full and jump cancelling. If a quick attack is used next, it will have 1 level charged. Therefore, alternating between strong and quick attacks maximizes damage.

===Homura===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Homura
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gshomuidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Base stat</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">88</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">17460</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+102</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">16.5%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">50</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Homura is a ranged attacker who uses combinations of explosives and gunfire to attack. She's deadly and versatile, but has a very low soul limit and requires tactical play to set up combos.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Fire a rather weak handgun. Can be fired 7 times. Bullets will disappear before reaching full screen.
*Standing Strong Attack: M249 Machine gun. Fires 18 bullets. If used midair, the gun will change to a Howa Type 59 but do the same number of hits and damage. Will slow your fall in mid-air. Bullets do not disappear and are even capable of "de-spawning" enemies if they're pushed too far off the screen. Slightly pushes Homura back, much more so if using the aerial version. Can be jump cancelled after she starts firing.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: AT-4. Fires one rocket that explodes on contact. The explosion has sizable splash AoE. Can be jump cancelled anytime after the rocket is fired. Firing the rocket pushes Homura back a little. May miss close grounded enemies. Only hits enemies and other destructible objects.
*Down Strong Attack: Jump and drop a pipe bomb that explodes on contact. The bomb bounces a bit before exploding on its own. Pushes Homura back a little. If used in the air, holding left or right will throw the bomb farther. Can be jump cancelled after the bomb is dropped.
*Up Strong Attack: Fires a mortar from behind at an upward angle. After traveling about screen height the shell arcs back down. The shell explodes when it contacts a surface, be it an enemy or part of the stage. Explodes on floating platforms on the way down. The explosion has sizable splash AoE. Can be jump cancelled any time after the mortar appears, even before it is fired, making this move effective for setting up high-damage combos.
*Up Strong Attack (mid-air): Small jump forward and throw a pipe bomb upwards that explodes on contact. The bomb bounces a bit before exploding on its own. Holding left or right will throw the bomb farther. If used during the rising part of a jump, Homura does the attack during the jump. If used during the falling part of a jump, Homura does an extra small jump and then the attack. This is Homura's only attack that cannot be jump cancelled.
*Special: Freeze time for a few seconds. During time stop you cannot be hit by enemies or their projectiles. Has about a second of start-up before it comes into effect, so try not to cut it too close before activating. Can be jump cancelled after time stops.
*Idle: The wind be blowing back and forward a lot.

Review/Tips:
Homura is a great character to have for multiplayer. Not only does her special (time freeze) stack with other character's moves, but she has quite a few defensive maneuvers as well. While weak in the soul limit and life department, she does have the second fastest growth of soul limit per level. Though her Soul Limit is quite low and drains quickly, she makes up for it with fast projectiles and a time-freezing special.

Homura benefits greatly from being able to jump cancel almost all of her moves. Some examples of this are jump cancelling from 8X or 6X into any of her various aerial grenade tosses, then repeating this when she lands, quickly filling the screen with explosive attacks while remaining highly mobile, or looping 5XC to fire her machine gun nearly without pause. The sheer number of explosives and bullets she can put on screen this way will have most enemies spending most of their time stunned and/or flying around the screen, unable to retaliate. Combine this with time stop and you're looking at very safe and damaging setups.

Homura rocket-cancel: Hold right or left direction then press X, followed by CX, and then another CX. If done correctly you should fire 3 rockets in one go. You can also use 8X or 2X on the final iteration to toss a grenade instead for lower lag time; 2X is good for retreating or spacing since it pushes you back a bit. Be careful not to press strong attack too soon after jump cancelling the first one, otherwise you will use the rocket launcher too close to the ground and you will land again before Homura can fire the rocket.

Mortar/Nade Spam: Hold up/right or up/left then tap XC repeatedly to rain down explosions to your enemies.

===Mami===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Mami
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmamiidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Base stat</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">110</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+5</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">22278</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+84</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">14.8%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">100</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Mami is a hybrid melee-ranged fighter who is widely regarded as the most difficult character to play. Her muskets have a very short range, her damage is low, and her truly powerful move, Tiro Finale, turns an enormous amount of the health bar blue.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Summon and fire muskets in succession with very low range, but AoE damage. Can be pressed 8 times.
*Standing Strong Attack: Summon multiple muskets that each shoot once before disappearing.
**This move can be charged by holding down strong attack. Uncharged summons 4 muskets. The longer you charge it, the more muskets will appear for up to 19.
**The move can be charged indefinitely. When charging in the air you will not move. You can jump cancel this move at any time. Doing so before letting the Strong Attack button go will cause the summoned muskets to disappear without firing. If you jump cancel after letting go, however, the muskets will fire and then disappear like normal.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: Step forward and strike the enemy with muskets on both sides, followed by a strong musket shot on both sides. The musket shots hit far out in front and back of Mami will low horizontal range, but have strong knock back and surprisingly good vertical reach.
*Down Strong Attack: Jumps forward and sends out a cloth whip down and forwards. Hits multiple times with weak damage and knock back; good for holding enemies still. You can hold the button down to prolong the attack for a short while. Will not hold bosses down.
*Up Strong Attack: Mami fires cannons diagonally upwards to both sides. Does not hit directly above her, though it has good vertical range. Doing this attack on the ground while holding left or right will cause her to move in that direction and then fire. Doing this attack during the rising part of a jump causes Mami to do the attack during the jump. Doing it during the falling part of a jump causes her to do an extra small jump and then the attack.
*Down and jump: Dive downward and hit for no damage, but if she hits an enemy she will jump off.
*Special: Tiro Finale. Summons a very large musket and fires a strong laser. The attack can be continued by holding the special button down and can continue until the health bar is all blue. Hits 6 times without holding.
*Idle: I can almost see them! ALMOST! ALMOST!

Review/Tips:
Mami has a sizable SL supply but takes a considerable hit when reviving as well (nearly double the cost of some other characters) making her large pool quite deceptive as you will see your reserves run dry if you are not careful.
Her special does great damage, but be aware you need to back up before using it since the length of the gun is nearly half the screen and only hits in front. Considering the subtraction from the health bar and that you're immobilized and wide open to attacks while holding it, this move is extremely risky, and is best used to punish bosses when they present an opening.
Repeatedly jump-canceling her forward-strong attack allows her to advance across the screen while attacking. Beware, though, that like Homura, if you do a forward strong attack too soon after jump cancelling, you will land before the attack goes off. A good way to damage high up or large enemies is to do an up strong attack on the ground, jump cancel it and do a rising up strong attack, and repeat when you land.
Using her down strong attack causes a quick jump forward, and if you cancel it right after the whip comes out with a jump, you can move forward quickly.

===Sayaka===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Sayaka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gssayakaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Base stat</td><td nowrap="nowrap" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">138</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+6</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">19935</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+82</td>
<tr><td nowrap="nowrap" style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive   </td><td style="text-align:left;">6.2%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">20 (+20 to add Strong Attack)</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Sayaka is a mobile melee fighter who uses charges and aerial attacks. She is an extremely powerful solo character whose diving attack can destroy enemies easily. Her strong attacks can chain into each other, making her extremely mobile while attacking.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Swing her sword back and forward. Can be pressed 8 times with the 8th being a step froward and slash.
*Standing Strong Attack: Lunging sword thrust forward.
**Chargeable up to two levels and can be held indefinitely. Charging increases damage and knock back. Fully charged will hit opponents all the way into the wall.
**Can be cancelled after the lunge forward into a jump or any other strong attack. Charging cannot be jump cancelled. If you charge this move in the air, your movement will be slowed drastically, but you will still move in the direction you were when you started charging and slowly fall back to the ground. You can continue charging even if you touch the ground before releasing the charge.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: Forward slash attack. Will knock back enemies all the way into the wall and cause them to bounce off.
*Down Strong Attack: Jump backwards and then diagonally dive attack the way you were facing.
*Up Strong Attack: Jump forward diagonally with a sword thrust. Can be done twice in a row. Beware of using this move in the air, it incurs a long recovery time.
*Down and jump: Dive downward and hit for no damage, but if she hits an enemy she will jump off.
*Special: Forward dash. Press Strong Attack during the dash to add a powerful attack with some extra cost to your bar. During the dash you do not take hit stun, but you can still take damage. The damage you take during the dash, however, is significantly reduced, to around one fourth.
*Idle: Bouncy. Well, except for her chest. Why so flat, Sayaka?

Review/Tips:
Sayaka is the definitive powerhouse that can tank it out with little to no effort.
Her attacks are very strong and fast and is probably the most powerful character in the game (at least for lower Laps).
Her left/right strong attack will stun enemies and send them flying into the wall. A good way to damage enemies, especially those on later laps with lots of hp, without fear of retaliation is to continuously hit them into the wall. This works on larger enemies, as well. Just hit them as they're bouncing off the wall to negate their super armor, and then the next hit will slam them into the wall, again.
You have to really try hard to die on the first few laps of the game. I wonder what happens if she does die...

===Kyouko===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Kyouko
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gskyokoidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Base stat</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">95</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+5</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">23742 </td style="text-align: left;"><td>+87</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">12.5%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">35</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Kyouko is an offensively oriented melee fighter who has high damage attacks that cover wide areas. She is an extremely powerful solo character who can destroy waves of enemies easily in the early laps, but she can't handle taking very much damage.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Swing her spear. Can be pressed 8 times for 2 pokes and 6 swings. The swings have very good vertical reach.
*Standing Strong Attack: Lunging spear thrust forward.
**Chargeable up to two levels and can be held indefinitely. Charging increases damage and knock back. When fully charged the lunge will do great damage, hit enemies all the way into the wall, and go extremely far, around one whole screen length.
**Can be cancelled at any time into a jump or any other strong attack. Charging can also be jump cancelled. If you charge this move in the air, your movement will be slowed drastically, but you will still move in the direction you were when you started charging and slowly fall back to the ground. If you touch the ground before releasing the charge, the charge will be cancelled.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: Spinning double hit. The first swing has weak knock back, but the second swing will knock back enemies all the way into the wall and cause them to bounce off. Can be jump cancelled after the second swing.
*Down Strong Attack (grounded): Jump and slash down.
*Down Strong Attack (mid-air): Spear thrust diagonally downward. Pressing left or right will have her thrust in that direction.
*Up Strong Attack: Use her spear like a pole vault bending it and causing it to spring upward. Even in the air... Slashes in a large arc in front, over, and behind her.
*Down and jump: Dive downward and hit for no damage, but if she hits an enemy she will jump off.
*Special: Create a box shaped barrier around Kyouko comprised of small diamonds. Each diamond hits for 1 damage, stuns enemies, and disappears after hitting something.
*Idle: No Pocky?

Review/Tips:
Kyouko is no pushover and is excellent at crowd control and melee combat.
Her left/right strong attack grants invulnerability frames. Kyouko's up strong attack deals great damage and is particularly effective at evading attacks. It can also serve as another jump in a tight situation. Her mid-air down strong attack is her damage-dealer. After use she will pop up into the air slightly and is in position to repeat using it. Against bosses this is an effective way to do a lot of damage quickly. Her special has limited use, such as blocking enemies or projectiles, but usually hurts more than helps her because it ironically leaves this tank in a vulnerable state.

The most useful attack for Kyouko at lower laps is her up strong attack. This attack is her third strongest attack (behind fully charged strong attack and down strong attacks), covers an enormous area (including behind her), and can be spammed quickly, juggling enemies with ease. At lower laps, this attack will OHKO small enemies rendering even the largest crowds a trivial chore.

Kyouko combo: Z x5 + 5X + 6X + j2X + j2X or j8X

==Stages==

===Gertrud===

Gertrud boss fight

Small Anthony enemies (the ones with mustaches) spawn indefinitely during this boss fight. Gertrud, grounded, will slowly moves about the stage. She will alternate between these attacks at random:
* Body slam forward. Be careful, this move has farther range than it appears. Hits on the ground where her body impacts, and some distance in front of her head.
* Jump forward, up, or back and hit you where she lands. Only hits around her feet.
* Walk forward or back up quickly and hit you by her feet.
* Jump straight up into the ceiling and position herself above where you are. After a time she will fall straight back down and do a body slam. Hits on the way down and on the ground. When in the air, her feet are visible at the top of the screen above where she will fall.
* Send out a large scissor attack that has pretty far range in front of her. Both the scissors and the vines they're connected to can hit you.
* Summon Adelbert enemies (the small white enemies) from the ground at spaced intervals. These Adelberts cannot be hit while being summoned. After a brief time, the Adelberts will turn into spikes to form walls, at which point they can be hit and destroyed by any attack, even weak attack. After the summoning Gertrud will randomly do one of her attacks, often her ceiling jump attack. Like the Adelberts in the stage, after some time they will disappear on their own.
**Adelbert summoning:[[file:GertrudeAdel1.jpg|200px]]
**Adelbert walls:[[file:GertrudeAdel2.jpg|200px]]
Strategies/Tips:
Considering her attacks, it's pretty safe to do air attacks since most of Gertrud's attacks only hit near the ground. As mentioned above, the Adelbert enemies she summons can be destroyed in one hit by any attack, unlike those found in the stage, so you can easily destroy them and run away instead of being trapped waiting for her attack you with little room to dodge.

===Charlotte===
This stage is pretty linear like all the other stages but you'll come across a maze half way through, its best to follow the doors that have a blue hue(not the door color itself, but the light shining out of it) do this until you reach a room with the two staircases on either side, then head to the pink one(it should be after the one room filled w/ two giant rat enemies and their small minions). Though the game will take pity on you eventually and head you onward to the correct path, if you do mess up repeatedly. Though in later laps, it becomes beneficial to mess up and redo these rooms to grind for levels but this loop(the 2 big mice room and double staircase room) will only lasts four times, since starting the fifth one, the game will correct you to the path to Charlotte.

Charlotte boss fight

Charlotte initially appears in her first form and never moves or attacks you. To begin the true boss fight, you must defeat this first form. In the mean time, small enemies spawn indefinitely throughout the stage. Once you've defeated the first form, her second form appears from above in the center of the stage and bites downward. This can hit you for large damage. Don't be intimidated by her large size. The actual area where she can damage you is generally centered around her face when she attacks. She will alternate between these attacks at random:
* Bite forward and downward or upwards towards where you are.
* Jump forward and slams down on the ground in front.
* Charge up for a bit before moving forward for while, biting low at ground level or high at platform level toward where you are. High version can end with a body slam that hits the ground in front.
* She will back up several times, typically followed by another attack.
* Jump upward off the screen. She then appears above you and bites downward. This move is very powerful so do your best to avoid it.
Strategies/Tips:
Considering her attack pattern, it is fairly safe to stay near her, as long as you're behind her. She backs up much faster than most of the characters can move, though, so when she does, it's usually best to stay away.
* On later laps, a good way to grind levels is to, during Charlotte's first form, ignore her and just attack her minions.

===H.N. Elly (Kirsten)===

Kirsten boss fight

The setting of this boss fight is different from usual. There's no ground, only six floating TV's, the bottom four of which you can use as platforms. Falling off a platform just causes you to fall through and then appear above where you fell. If you fall off the sides, you'll land on the side platforms. If you you fall through the middle, you will probably drift towards one of the lower platforms. You can fall indefinitely, and steer yourself using the left and right arrows. Kirsten takes the form of four TV's which constantly rotate in a circle at the center of the stage. The main body, and the only place she can be harmed, is the TV containing the blue silhouette. Green blood spurts out of the TV to show that you're doing damage. The other TV's will contain one of three different images that have different effects:
* Lightning - periodically shoots lightning outwards.
* Minion - periodically spawns small minions.
* Exclamation point - if this TV is hit, three electrical orbs will fly out.
Every so often, Kirsten and all the TV's will whirl around in place for a short time during which she's invulnerable. After, they will resume rotating with some changes:
* Kirsten's position amongst the TV's may change at random.
* The images on the other TV's may change at random.
* The direction that TV's rotate may change at random.
* The speed at which the TV's rotate may change at random.
* The TV's may change to rotate in a circle with a small diameter (all of Kirsten's TV's touching), a large diameter (the TV's can reach the platforms), or a medium diameter (half way between) at random.
Strategies/Tips:
This fight is mostly made difficult by the spawning of enemies that will interrupt you while you try to attack Kirsten. Don't expend too much effort trying to take them out before attacking Kirsten, however, because it's likely that more will spawn before you get a chance to attack her if you pay too much attention to them. Unlike enemies throughout the stage, though, enemies that spawn from the TV's can be killed with one attack, be it weak or strong, so if you are close to an enemy you can take it out quickly before continuing your assault.

===Elsa Maria===

Elsa Maria boss fight

Elsa Maria is a grounded, generally stationary boss. She will only move after each attack where she will idle for a time before disappearing and reappearing again somewhere at random. Small and medium sized enemies of every kind from this stage will spawn at random indefinitely. She will alternate between these attacks at random:
* Hands extend out of her body and home in on you in a straight line.
* Hands extend straight out of her body at random angles and then turn once to home in on you.
* Note for the above two hand attacks, at low health she will do another volley of hands after the first.
* 12 hands extend straight out of her body radially at evenly spaced intervals like spokes of a wheel. At low health she will send out 16 hands so the space in between hands is smaller. [[file:ElsaMariaAttack.jpg|200px]]
* Note that for all the hand attacks, only the hand can hit you, not the arm, so that's the only part you have to dodge.
* A large tree extends out of the back of her head and covers that entire side of the screen. This move is extremely powerful and hits many times. If you get hit by it, it will one hit KO you. An easy way to dodge this move is to pay attention to Elsa Maria's form when she appears. If it's any other attack, her body with morph into a blob like shape before attacking, But if it's this attack, her body will not change; the tree will just start extending out. This move also has fairly long start-up time, so it's not hard to get out of the way if you see it coming.
Strategies/Tips:
Taking her OHKO move into account, it's safest to attack Elsa Maria from her front at all times. Her other attacks are best dealt with at a distance. The straight homing hands you can avoid by staying in place and then jumping over them as they approach. The angled hands you can avoid by keeping your distance at first and then running towards Elsa Maria as they approach. The hands will generally extend upwards before turning, and they will turn to aim where you are, so if you continue moving forward they should miss you. The radial hands you need to look for an opening between the hands. And the tree you can avoid completely simply by being behind it. She will never appear so close to the edge of the screen that you can't avoid it.

===Oktavia von Seckendorff===

You obtain this boss fight after Sayaka dies at any time. There are no enemies present on this stage except Oktavia.

Oktavia boss fight

This is the only boss fight where enemies don't spawn. Oktavia will slide back and forth across the stage. She will alternate between these attacks:
* Summon four wheels that bounce across the screen from behind her. This occurs when Oktavia turns sideways, leans back, and raises both her arms high. These wheels are destructible, and hitting them delays their descent.
* Summon many wheels in the sky that, after a short time, fall straight down and then, after a short time, roll off to the sides. This occurs when Oktavia raises only her sword arm. These wheels are destructible, but cannot be hit while they're in the air. Hitting them on the ground will stall their forward rolling.
* Dash very quickly around the stage. She doesn't attack during this, nor is she invulnerable.
* Big sword slash that causes a large shockwave along the ground that goes in both directions from the impact of the sword. The sword slash can hit you. Both the slash and the shockwave do tremendous damage and will one hit KO you. The shockwave, though, only hits near the ground, so you can jump or stall in the air to avoid it. Try to be behind her or far from her when she does this move to avoid getting hit by the slash. An indicator that she's about to use this move is if he raises her sword arm and slides back and forth quickly.
* Retreat to the background where she is invulnerable and summon wheels to fall straight down randomly from the sky. The wheels will disappear after hitting the ground once. After many wheels fall, she will return to the foreground.
Strategies/Tips:
A good way to dodge the bouncing 4 wheels is to try and keep your distance and then run to stand under the wheels' bounce. The wheels bounce very high, so it's not a good idea to try and jump or stall in the air over them. On the other hand, a good way to dodge the second wheel attack is to get out of the way of where they will fall while they're spawning in the air, and then jump or stall in the air over them as they roll off to the sides. If you want to go about destroying the wheels during the second wheel attack, keep in mind that, as mentioned before, the wheels during this attack can't be hit in the air, only on the ground. The last wheel attack where she's invulnerable can be dealt with by simply running back and forth to dodge. You can also try destroying the wheels with upward aimed attacks since they can be destroyed in one hit by any attack. Kyouko's super has very good application here. Any wheel will be destroyed if it touches her barrier. Two uses is enough to be safe for the entire duration of this move; one use will last a little short of the whole time. Even on later laps (tested up to lap 1000) this is still applicable.

===Walpurgisnacht===

Walpurgisnacht boss fight

* This is another boss fight where there are platforms instead of solid ground. Unlike Kirsten's fight, though, if you fall here you die. Again, enemies spawn indefinitely. Walpurgisnacht has 2 main phases of attack.
* In her first phases she will float about the stage in random directions and let her minions attack you. Periodically a group of six blue orbs will appear in a hexagon formation randomly around the stage and fire blue lasers out radially. The lasers are the same as the ones her minions fire and will first shoot a thin beam showing the direction they will shoot before actually shooting, so you have some time to dodge.
* After some time, Walpurgisnacht will enter her second phase. During this phase she retreats to the background and she is completely invulnerable. If you have not destroyed her enemies they will remain. However, during this phase they will not re-spawn once killed. To start this phase, debris will fly up and then fall from the sky, rotating as they fall. The debris cannot be destroyed so you must dodge. Each piece does large damage. After the debris finishes falling, Walpurgisnacht will shoot fire from her mouth that covers large portions of the stage as it arcs about. Keep in mind, though, that it can only hit you when it passes through the foreground. This fire is very powerful. A good strategy is to wait at the top platform in the center of the stage so you can watch the fire and see which direction it will move in so you can effectively dodge. After the fire attack finishes, Walpurgisnacht will return to the foreground and resume her first phase. At low health, after the fire attack, she will drop an enormous building from the sky centered where you are. You will know it's starting when the screen shakes. This move is a one hit KO, but it's not too hard to outrun. Also, Sayaka can super dash away, while Homura can stop time.
Strategies/Tips:
* Walpurgisnacht is enormous, so it's extremely easy to hit her. Using Madoka's super attack can result in all of the arrows hitting for enormous damage.

==Trophies==

*Silver Trophy: Clear game once
*Silver Trophy: Clear the game without dying
*Golden Trophy: All endings cleared (bugged, unobtainable)
*Silver Trophy: Use everyone a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Madoka a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Homura a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Mami a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Sayaka a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Kyouko a total of 100 times
*Golden Trophy: Use everyone 100 times each
*Silver Trophy: Defeat 1000 familiars
*Golden Trophy: Defeat 10000 familiars
*Silver Trophy: Defeat 100 witches
*Golden Trophy: Defeat 1000 witches
*Silver Trophy: Reach level 30
*Golden Trophy: Reach level 99
*Silver Trophy: Use magic ability 100 times
*Golden Trophy: Use magic ability 1000 times
*Silver Trophy: 100 hit combo
*Golden Trophy: 500 hit combo

==Endings==

The game has multiple endings depending on which characters in your party are alive at the end of the game. Getting all of the endings is a of requirements of one of the trophies. Currently identified ones and their conditions are as follows:

Ending 1:
All of your party members survive.

Ending 2:
Only Madoka and Homura survive.

Ending 3:
Only Sayaka and Kyouko survive.

Ending 4:
Only Mami survives.

Ending 5:
Only Madoka and Sayaka die.

Ending 6:
Only Sayaka dies.

Ending 7:
Only Mami dies.

Ending 8:
Only Kyouko dies.

Ending 9:
Only Madoka dies.

Ending 10:
Any other combination of surviving characters invokes this ending. The simplest way for this ending to occur is if only Homura dies.

==System Requirements==

*OS: Windows 7, Vista, or XP
*CPU: 2GHz or higher
*RAM: 1GB
*Hard drive space: 1GB
*Graphics: DirectX9.0c compatible with 256MB VRAM
*Display: 800x600 resolution
*Input Device: Game pad recommended, keyboard supported

== Gallery ==
Illustrated by [http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=13134 Asato Mizu]
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center">
File:Griefsyndrome cover.jpg|Cover
File:Grief Syndrome 13.jpg|Stage Select screen
File:GS_Select_Screen.jpg|Character Select screen
File:Grief Syndrome 01.jpg|Everyone survives
File:Grief Syndrome 03.jpg|Only Homura and Madoka survive
File:Grief Syndrome 04.jpg|Only Kyoko and Sayaka survive
File:Grief Syndrome 08.jpg|Only Mami lives
File:Grief Syndrome 15.jpg|Only Madoka and Sayaka die
File:Grief Syndrome 05.jpg|Only Sayaka dies
File:Grief Syndrome 06.jpg|Only Mami dies
File:Grief Syndrome 09.jpg|Only Kyoko dies
File:Grief Syndrome 10.jpg|Only Madoka dies
File:Grief Syndrome 07.jpg|Homura in hospital, conditions variable
</gallery>

==External links==
===Threads===
*[[Threads#Grief_Syndrome | Threads discussing Grief Syndrome]]
===Twilight Frontier===
*[http://www.tasofro.net Twilight Frontier website]
*[http://www.tasofro.net/mdk/ Grief Syndrome website]
===Other===
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqblxdzpAho Trailer video]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasofro About Tasofro]
*[http://wks.arai-kibou.ru/griefsyndrome.php Russian translation patch]

[[Category:Fangames]]

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-06T04:22:21Z

Magic9mushroom:

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-06T04:16:34Z

Magic9mushroom:

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-06T04:13:32Z

Magic9mushroom: /* All endings */

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-02T01:23:11Z

Magic9mushroom: /* highest lap for grief syndrome is 1316093285, and its bugged */

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-02T01:21:54Z

Magic9mushroom:

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-09-01T00:25:18Z

Magic9mushroom:

Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-08-31T01:25:33Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Timeline 5: The Main Anime Timeline */ It's greater, but we don't know how much greater; also, 4.1 is covered in the anime.

{{spoilers}}
[[File:Timeline Chart.png|thumb|200px|The sequences of events in each timeline.]]
[[File:Moon-phases-tokyo-time.PNG|thumb|200px|The phases of the moon in March and April 2011, Tokyo time.]]

== All Timelines ==
*The backstories of Kyoko and Mami, and the events in [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']].
**2009: Kyoko becomes a magical girl. In the drama CD, she states that she contracted roughly a year before the battle in which she met Mami.
**2010: Madoka and Sayaka were in Class 1A in the drama CD's opening scene. They are in their second year during the anime, which is set in 2011, placing this scene in the previous year. Kyoko and Mami become friends. Kyoko loses her family, turns against Mami, and sets out on her own.
*The events in [[Puella Magi Kazumi Magica]] probably happened before the timelines diverged, although it's unknown whether this series takes place before or during the anime.

== Timeline 1: Normal Homura ==
*March 16 (Wed), offscreen: Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school and meets Madoka. She is attacked by Izabel and is saved by Madoka and Mami. She learns about magic.
*March 25 - April 30: The first drama CD, [[Drama_CD_1 | Memories of You]] takes place during this timeline.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Mami is killed, while Madoka sacrifices herself to destroy the witch. Homura contracts, her wish being to redo her first meeting with Madoka. Time resets.

Inferences: Sayaka never contracted. Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara.

== Timeline 2: Homura is a Magical Girl ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura's time loop starts. She is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school and tells Madoka she's a magical girl.
*In between March 25 and April 30, but closer to March: Homura shows her powers to Mami and Madoka. Later she makes pipe bombs, and uses them to defeat Patricia. Madoka, Mami, and Homura fought as a magical girl trio.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Madoka destroys the witch, but becomes a witch herself. Time resets.

Inferences: Sayaka never contracted. Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara. Mami probably died fighting Walpurgis Night, but since we never see it happen, it's possible she survived (or died earlier).

==Timeline 3: The Magical Girl Team ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school. We can infer that she told Madoka and Mami she was a magical girl.
*In between March 25 and April 30, in estimated chronological order:
**Sayaka contracts and becomes a magical girl.
**It can be inferred that Madoka, Mami, Sayaka, and Homura fought together at least once, and that Sayaka was concerned about getting caught in an explosion.
**It can be inferred Kyoko is somehow contacted, likely by Homura and/or Mami, to help with Walpurgis Night.
**Homura tells Sayaka, Mami, and Madoka about the true nature of witches. Sayaka doesn't believe her, and also distrusts the idea of Kyoko coming to Mitakihara. She tells Homura to find a new weapon.
**Homura steals firearms from the Yakuza.
**Kyoko comes to Mitakihara town. It can be inferred that she began to care for Sayaka in some fashion (based off her last words in this timeline).
**Sayaka becomes a witch. Madoka, Mami, Kyoko, and Homura fight her, and she is destroyed by Homura. After the battle, Mami snaps and kills Kyoko, and then is killed by Madoka to stop her from killing Homura. It is possible that Madoka picked up Sayaka's Grief Seed after the battle. This event probably happened shortly before April 30th.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Madoka and Homura defeat the witch, but are in danger of becoming witches themselves. Madoka uses one last Grief Seed (possibly Sayaka's) to purify Homura's Soul Gem. She then asks Homura to kill her in the current timeline, and stop her from contracting in the next timeline. Homura does what she says. Time resets.

== Timeline 4: Homura Fights Alone ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Homura prevents Madoka from contracting with Kyubey.
*Between March 18 and April 30:
** Homura kills Kyubey at least once, and warns Madoka against contracting. The exact time is a bit unclear. It is possible that Homura killed Kyubey on March 18th. On the other hand, because Madoka seems to recognize Homura when she appears outside her window, it's possible Homura killed Kyubey on or after March 25th, after transferring into school. It's also possible Homura never went to school in this timeline, focusing entirely on killing witches, and Madoka only recognized Homura from dreaming about a previous timeline.
** Homura steals weapons from the military and fights as many witches as possible.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**The witch appears different from the one seen in the first timeline. Homura fails to defeat the witch. Madoka contracts with Kyubey and kills the witch with one shot. She then becomes an even more powerful witch that can destroy humanity in ten days. Time resets.

Inferences: Mami, Kyoko and Sayaka were unseen in this timeline, which opens several possibilities. But it's likely that Sayaka didn't contract, Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara, and Mami died before or on Walpurgis Night.

== Additional Timelines ==
It's speculated that an unknown number of timelines fell between Timeline 4 and Timeline 5 while Homura repeatedly attempted to save Madoka.
*Timeline 4.1: The scenes at the end of episode 10, where Homura kills Kyubey, appear to be showing one of them. There are minor differences between these scenes and the similar ones at the beginning of the anime.
*Timeline 4.x: The spin-off manga, [[Puella Magi Oriko Magica]], takes place in a timeline that is not shown in the anime. This timeline happens after Homura changes her hairstyle, but before Madoka eliminates witches. It is believed to fall between timelines 4 and 5, but there has also been speculation that it is part of a separate story continuity and might not fit in with anime timelines.
** According to Homura, the Oriko timeline is considered to be an anomaly, an indicator that the events taking place was highly unexpected.
*** It is possible that the Oriko timeline takes place sometime between March 16 and May 1.
** It has been speculated however that Oriko's prediction of Walpurgis Night happened in prior timelines. It would explain why Mami knew that Walpurgis Night was coming in Chapter 1; Kyubey learned it from Oriko and then told Mami.
*** Unless a Walpurgis Night event has already happened in the past and this could be common knowledge among veterans, information about a festival of witches is already recorded in history.
**** In [[Episode 8]], Kyoko tells Homura that she has never heard of Walpurgis Night ever coming to [[Mitakihara Town|Mitakihara]] before, so yes, a Walpurgis Night event has happened in the past, it is a well known event among veteran Puellae Magi, and perhaps it happened in different cities around the globe during the night of the festival of witches.
***** Based on the current information plus the fact that the Oriko timeline is considered to be an irregularity by Homura, the chances that Oriko predicts Walpurgis Night in prior timelines is highly unlikely. A more likely scenario is that Oriko predicted Walpurgis Night only once, and it happened sometime after March 16 but before May 1. On a timeline that was not suppose to take place but it did, a random chance that wont happen again in any other timeline.
*Timeline 4.y: [[Drama_CD_2 | Sunny Day Life]], the second drama CD, probably takes place in one of these timelines, since Homura's behavior indicates that she has experienced multiple timelines and matured beyond her initial "Moemura" stage. However, some fans speculate that this timeline occurs earlier or that it is not part of the real story continuity at all.

== Timeline 5: The Main Anime Timeline ==
The number of repetitions Homura has been through before this timeline is greater, but this is the fifth timeline covered in depth by the anime, so it is still referred to as timeline 5. This is the main timeline, and the majority of the anime takes place in it.
*March 16 (Wed): Homura's time loop starts again. She is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Homura prevents Madoka from contracting with Kyubey. Note that Homura does ''NOT'' kill Kyubey at this point, suggesting she found some other way to keep him away from Madoka.
*March 25 (Fri): Madoka dreams about Walpurgis Night from the previous timeline. However, the witch again appears different. Homura transfers into school. Madoka and Sayaka are introduced to magic and meet Mami. Homura kills Kyubey (for the first time in this timeline), and chases his second body until he meets Madoka. This was the originally scheduled airing date for the final episode.
*March ?? (School day): Madoka tells her mother about visiting Mami's apartment the previous evening. Madoka brings Kyubey to school and encounters Homura on the rooftop. Mami, Madoka, and Sayaka hunt down and defeat Gertrud. Japanese students attend school on Saturday, so it's possible for this to be March 26.
*March/April ?? (School/work day): Sayaka visits Kyousuke to deliver a CD. At night, she and Madoka discuss wishes with Mami. Madoka's mother comes home drunk.
*April 4 (Mon), estimate: Mami dies.
*April 5 (Tues), estimate: Waxing crescent moon. Definitely the next day. Madoka talks to Sayaka and Kyubey on the school roof. Madoka speaks with Homura after visiting Mami's apartment and mentions that Mami's death was yesterday. Sayaka contracts and defeats Elly. Kyoko arrives in town and talks to Kyubey.
*April 6 (Wed), estimate: Hitomi returns to school and mentions her troubles the night before. Sayaka visits Kyousuke, who still has to complete rehabilitation before being released, but plays his violin. Kyoko observes Sayaka through binoculars.
*April 8 (Fri): Kyoko attacks Sayaka in the alley.
*April 9 (Sat): Kyoko talks with Homura, who states that Walpurgis Night is in two weeks. (Homura is referring to the earliest possible date on which the witch might appear. The real life Walpurgis Night event falls on April 30, 21 days later. Two weeks after the 9th is the 23rd.)
*April 9 (Sat): Sayaka visits the alley in which she fought Kyoko to search for the familiar and refers to the battle as happening last night.
*April 10 (Sun): Sayaka visits the hospital only to discover that Kyousuke was released the day before. Sayaka approaches Kyousuke's house and encounters Kyoko, who mentions that Sayaka has been chasing after Kyousuke all day. They fight on the bridge where Madoka throws Sayaka's soul gem.
*April 10 (Sun): Full moon (In the real world, slightly more than a quarter moon). Kyubey tortures Sayaka through her soul gem. Based on Sayaka's comments, this most likely happened immediately after the bridge confrontation.
*April 11 (Mon): Sayaka and Kyoko meet in the church. Sayaka skips school on this day.
*April 12 (Tue): Full moon (In the real world, waxing half moon). Kyousuke returns to school and Hitomi mentions Sayaka's absence the day before. Hitomi delivers her ultimatum to Sayaka. At night, Sayaka goes on patrol and battles Elsa Maria. Sayaka goes missing after this day, according to the news report during her funeral scene in Episode 11.
*April 13 (Wed): Sayaka is absent from school. Hitomi and Kyousuke become a couple. Madoka searches for Sayaka, and learns that she hadn't returned home since the night before.
*April 18 (Mon) - April 22 (Fri): Homura and Kyoko discuss Walpurgis Night in the final scene of [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']]. However, this scene may take place in a different timeline, and is only speculated to be part of the main anime timeline.
*April 22 (Fri): Episodes 11 and 12 aired at 2:40 am. Good Friday.
*April 23 (Sat): Two weeks have passed since April 9, when Homura stated that Walpurgis Night was two weeks away. This is the earliest potential date for Walpurgis Night's attack on Mitakihara.
*April ??: Waning crescent moon. Sayaka is killing familiars, and Homura offers her a grief seed. Based on the change from a full moon to a crescent moon, there must be a time skip between the romance scene and the confrontation between Sayaka and Homura.
*April 27 (Wed, or 28th Thu), estimate: Waning crescent moon. Homura kills Kyubey in the park (the second kill in this timeline) and Sayaka becomes a witch.
*April 28 (Thu, or 29th Fri), estimate: Waning crescent moon. Kyoko kamikaze attacks Oktavia, killing them both.
*April 29 (Fri, or 30th Sat), estimate: Sayaka's funeral is held, Junko drinks with Kazuko, and Madoka visits Homura's apartment. Homura states that is has been approximately one month since she transferred into school.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun), estimate: Nearly new moon. Walpurgis Night. At the evacuation shelter, Junko is not wearing the same clothes she had on when she met Kazuko.
*May 1 (Sun): If Walpurgis Night appears on the midnight following April 30 according to the time zone of the Brocken mountain, matching the witching hour of the real life Walpurgis Night, it would appear in Japan at 8:00 AM. When Madoka defeats Walpurgis, the clouds part to reveal a blue daytime sky. The sun is not visible, so it is most likely still close to the horizon, as it would be if Walpurgis Night followed Brocken time. Germany is in UTC+1, and JST is UTC+9. Since time zones are rounded off, the exact time of appearance would be between 7:20 AM and 8:20 AM depending on where Mitakihara City is located in Japan.

Discrepancies:
*When Homura talks to Kyoko at the arcade, she states that Walpurgis Night is two weeks away, although the date of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_night real life Walpurgis Night event] falls three weeks later. In [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']] Homura indicates that the exact time of Walpurgis Night's appearance varies, and that the earliest observed time is on a weekend. April 23 is a Saturday, so Homura's "two weeks" referred to the earliest possible date.
*On April 10 and 12, the full moon shown in the anime does not match the half moon that occurred in real life. The moon phases observed in the anime are only compatible with the real moon if SHAFT is rounding the moon off to either a full or crescent shape for visual effect, and the Walpurgis Night witch appears near the real life date of Walpurgis Night.

== Timeline 6: The New World ==
A new timeline begins after Madoka makes her wish in Episode 12 and recreates the universe.
*April 2011: Kyousuke is healed, auditions, and becomes a concert violinist.
*Spring 2011: Sayaka kills herself by using up all of her power. Homura, Mami, and Kyoko, who were fighting alongside her, mourn her death in the train station.
*Spring 2011: Homura talks to Madoka's family in the park.
*Full moon. Homura discusses the history of the universe with Kyubey and battles demons in Mitakihara City.
*Unknown year: Homura battles demons in the middle of a wasteland outside of Japan. It is unclear whether this happens shortly after the other events, or takes place in the distant future.

The calendar we see in Homura's hospital room coincides with our actual calendar, year 2011. March has 31 days with the 25th falling on a Friday, and is the only such month in 2011. This means that the events in the anime take place while the show is airing in the real world. Episode 12 was originally set to air on the night before the events of Episode 1, and Homura's time loop restart point is during the week after the airing of Episode 10. Since Episodes 11 and 12 were delayed, their final airing dates occur during middle of Sayaka's downfall, on Good Friday.

In the anime, Hitomi gives one day's notice in Episode 7 and makes her move in Episode 8. Madoka is desperately searching for Sayaka and learns from Sayaka's parents that she hasn't come home since the previous night. These scenes occur only one day after the events of Episode 7. However, the moon is a thin waning crescent in Episode 8 and is full in Episode 7. A time skip must have occurred between those scenes and the confrontation between Sayaka and Homura. The news report heard during Sayaka's funeral suggests that she has been missing for some time, supporting the idea of a time skip.

== Number of Timelines ==
The total number of timelines Homura went through is not stated. [[Gen Urobuchi]], the writer, left many other issues open-ended, and most likely did not decide on a specific number. However, there are various speculations regarding the number of timelines.

Each timeline runs from March 16 until May 1, assuming Homura always resets immediately after Walpurgis Night. This is a span of 46 days. Eight loops add up to 368 days, just over a year. Sixty loops would require about seven and a half years, and Homura would have to loop 795 times to break a century. Since Homura is willing to reset time earlier if the situation calls for it, the 46 days per timeline figure is only an upper bound. However, if Homura is able to reset time from a later point, there may have been timelines in which Homura avoided fighting Walpurgis Night and a larger amount of time passed before a reset became necessary.

*Absolute minimum: The four timelines explored in depth in episode 10, the timeline at the end of episode 10 that looks similar but slightly different than the scene in episode 1, the main anime timeline, the new world, Oriko, and Sunny Day Life add up to nine timelines that have been explicitly shown, assuming they are all canon and the end of episode 10 was free of animation errors.

*Small numbers: There are 14 strings of fate attached to Madoka in the symbolic image displayed during Kyubey's lecture to Homura. If they directly represent timelines, rather than being drawn in that quantity for artistic reasons, there would be 16 timelines counting the main one and the new world. The anime's opening shows 11 slides when the scenes of Madoka as a magical girl are displayed with Madoka and Kyubey sitting in the foreground, which has lead to speculation that the main timeline is the 12th. Some fans believe that Homura's level of experience and degree of personality change indicate that she has only been through a small number of timelines: She was shocked to see Mami die in battle against Charlotte, she still has trouble handling misunderstandings with other people, she didn't hear Kyubey's explanation as to why Madoka is so powerful until the main timeline, her vulnerable inner personality remains under her cold outer shell, and she's still entirely sane, despite being heavily stressed.

*Medium numbers: Some believe that Homura experienced dozens, but less than a hundred timelines. This would allow her to exhaustively test a number of different strategies, but still have new ideas to try. She appears to have only tried the "give Madoka the cold shoulder" strategy a few times, and probably wouldn't attempt it before convincing herself that other plans won't work. Homura has her statistics (assuming that she was telling the truth about that), she's practiced enough at acting to come off as naturally cool and stylish to everyone despite having been extremely awkward in the beginning, she has memorized all the math perfectly even though homework is the least of her problems, and her elaborate setup against Walpurgis surely required quite a bit of trial and error to perfect and involved gathering a lot of gear that would be tricky to steal. However, she still encounters unexpected situations and hasn't figured out the ideal way to handle every issue that arises.

*Large numbers: Some speculators believe that Homura has truly been through countless timelines. One common estimate is 83 years in 1000 timelines, which assumes an average rate of one month per timeline. One might believe that Homura spent 80 years studying how to be cool.

<gallery>
File:Ep10-calendar.jpg|Homura's calendar at the hospital.
File:Moon-E4-Elly-fight.jpg|The moon on the night when Sayaka fought Elly in Episode 4.
File:Moon-E7-Intro.jpg|The moon at the start of Episode 7 when Kyubey tortures Sayaka.
File:Moon-E7-After-Hitomi-Ultimatum.jpg|The moon later in Episode 7, when Sayaka fights Elsa Maria.
File:Moon-E8-Homura-Sayaka-Confrontation.jpg|The moon when Homura confronts and threatens to kill Sayaka in Episode 8.
File:Moon-E8-Park.jpg|The moon during the Episode 8 park scene where Kyubey eats his own corpse.
File:Moon-E8-Park-2.jpg|The moon during the Episode 8 park scene when Homura reveals the name Incubator.
File:Moon-E8-End.jpg|The moon at the end of Episode 8 after Sayaka becomes a witch.
File:Moon-E8-End-2.jpg|Another shot of the moon at the end of Episode 8.
File:Moon-E9-Start.jpg|The moon in the beginning of Episode 9 when Homura and Kyoko escape from Oktavia's barrier.
File:Moon-E9-End.jpg|The moon at the end of Episode 9, on the next night when Oktavia is defeated.
File:WalpurgisDay.jpg|Walpurgis Night is defeated, and daylight appears.
File:Moon-E12-NearEnd.jpg|The moon near the end of Episode 12, when Homura discusses the history of the universe with Kyubey.
</gallery>

[[Category:Articles]]

Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-08-31T01:23:48Z

Magic9mushroom: Maths fail.

{{spoilers}}
[[File:Timeline Chart.png|thumb|200px|The sequences of events in each timeline.]]
[[File:Moon-phases-tokyo-time.PNG|thumb|200px|The phases of the moon in March and April 2011, Tokyo time.]]

== All Timelines ==
*The backstories of Kyoko and Mami, and the events in [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']].
**2009: Kyoko becomes a magical girl. In the drama CD, she states that she contracted roughly a year before the battle in which she met Mami.
**2010: Madoka and Sayaka were in Class 1A in the drama CD's opening scene. They are in their second year during the anime, which is set in 2011, placing this scene in the previous year. Kyoko and Mami become friends. Kyoko loses her family, turns against Mami, and sets out on her own.
*The events in [[Puella Magi Kazumi Magica]] probably happened before the timelines diverged, although it's unknown whether this series takes place before or during the anime.

== Timeline 1: Normal Homura ==
*March 16 (Wed), offscreen: Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school and meets Madoka. She is attacked by Izabel and is saved by Madoka and Mami. She learns about magic.
*March 25 - April 30: The first drama CD, [[Drama_CD_1 | Memories of You]] takes place during this timeline.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Mami is killed, while Madoka sacrifices herself to destroy the witch. Homura contracts, her wish being to redo her first meeting with Madoka. Time resets.

Inferences: Sayaka never contracted. Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara.

== Timeline 2: Homura is a Magical Girl ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura's time loop starts. She is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school and tells Madoka she's a magical girl.
*In between March 25 and April 30, but closer to March: Homura shows her powers to Mami and Madoka. Later she makes pipe bombs, and uses them to defeat Patricia. Madoka, Mami, and Homura fought as a magical girl trio.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Madoka destroys the witch, but becomes a witch herself. Time resets.

Inferences: Sayaka never contracted. Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara. Mami probably died fighting Walpurgis Night, but since we never see it happen, it's possible she survived (or died earlier).

==Timeline 3: The Magical Girl Team ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school. We can infer that she told Madoka and Mami she was a magical girl.
*In between March 25 and April 30, in estimated chronological order:
**Sayaka contracts and becomes a magical girl.
**It can be inferred that Madoka, Mami, Sayaka, and Homura fought together at least once, and that Sayaka was concerned about getting caught in an explosion.
**It can be inferred Kyoko is somehow contacted, likely by Homura and/or Mami, to help with Walpurgis Night.
**Homura tells Sayaka, Mami, and Madoka about the true nature of witches. Sayaka doesn't believe her, and also distrusts the idea of Kyoko coming to Mitakihara. She tells Homura to find a new weapon.
**Homura steals firearms from the Yakuza.
**Kyoko comes to Mitakihara town. It can be inferred that she began to care for Sayaka in some fashion (based off her last words in this timeline).
**Sayaka becomes a witch. Madoka, Mami, Kyoko, and Homura fight her, and she is destroyed by Homura. After the battle, Mami snaps and kills Kyoko, and then is killed by Madoka to stop her from killing Homura. It is possible that Madoka picked up Sayaka's Grief Seed after the battle. This event probably happened shortly before April 30th.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Madoka and Homura defeat the witch, but are in danger of becoming witches themselves. Madoka uses one last Grief Seed (possibly Sayaka's) to purify Homura's Soul Gem. She then asks Homura to kill her in the current timeline, and stop her from contracting in the next timeline. Homura does what she says. Time resets.

== Timeline 4: Homura Fights Alone ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Homura prevents Madoka from contracting with Kyubey.
*Between March 18 and April 30:
** Homura kills Kyubey at least once, and warns Madoka against contracting. The exact time is a bit unclear. It is possible that Homura killed Kyubey on March 18th. On the other hand, because Madoka seems to recognize Homura when she appears outside her window, it's possible Homura killed Kyubey on or after March 25th, after transferring into school. It's also possible Homura never went to school in this timeline, focusing entirely on killing witches, and Madoka only recognized Homura from dreaming about a previous timeline.
** Homura steals weapons from the military and fights as many witches as possible.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**The witch appears different from the one seen in the first timeline. Homura fails to defeat the witch. Madoka contracts with Kyubey and kills the witch with one shot. She then becomes an even more powerful witch that can destroy humanity in ten days. Time resets.

Inferences: Mami, Kyoko and Sayaka were unseen in this timeline, which opens several possibilities. But it's likely that Sayaka didn't contract, Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara, and Mami died before or on Walpurgis Night.

== Additional Timelines ==
It's speculated that an unknown number of timelines fell between Timeline 4 and Timeline 5 while Homura repeatedly attempted to save Madoka.
*Timeline 4.1: The scenes at the end of episode 10, where Homura kills Kyubey, appear to be showing one of them. There are minor differences between these scenes and the similar ones at the beginning of the anime.
*Timeline 4.x: The spin-off manga, [[Puella Magi Oriko Magica]], takes place in a timeline that is not shown in the anime. This timeline happens after Homura changes her hairstyle, but before Madoka eliminates witches. It is believed to fall between timelines 4 and 5, but there has also been speculation that it is part of a separate story continuity and might not fit in with anime timelines.
** According to Homura, the Oriko timeline is considered to be an anomaly, an indicator that the events taking place was highly unexpected.
*** It is possible that the Oriko timeline takes place sometime between March 16 and May 1.
** It has been speculated however that Oriko's prediction of Walpurgis Night happened in prior timelines. It would explain why Mami knew that Walpurgis Night was coming in Chapter 1; Kyubey learned it from Oriko and then told Mami.
*** Unless a Walpurgis Night event has already happened in the past and this could be common knowledge among veterans, information about a festival of witches is already recorded in history.
**** In [[Episode 8]], Kyoko tells Homura that she has never heard of Walpurgis Night ever coming to [[Mitakihara Town|Mitakihara]] before, so yes, a Walpurgis Night event has happened in the past, it is a well known event among veteran Puellae Magi, and perhaps it happened in different cities around the globe during the night of the festival of witches.
***** Based on the current information plus the fact that the Oriko timeline is considered to be an irregularity by Homura, the chances that Oriko predicts Walpurgis Night in prior timelines is highly unlikely. A more likely scenario is that Oriko predicted Walpurgis Night only once, and it happened sometime after March 16 but before May 1. On a timeline that was not suppose to take place but it did, a random chance that wont happen again in any other timeline.
*Timeline 4.y: [[Drama_CD_2 | Sunny Day Life]], the second drama CD, probably takes place in one of these timelines, since Homura's behavior indicates that she has experienced multiple timelines and matured beyond her initial "Moemura" stage. However, some fans speculate that this timeline occurs earlier or that it is not part of the real story continuity at all.

== Timeline 5: The Main Anime Timeline ==
The number of repetitions Homura has been through before this timeline is much greater, but this is the fifth timeline covered by the anime, so it is still referred to as timeline 5. This is the main timeline, and the majority of the anime takes place in it.
*March 16 (Wed): Homura's time loop starts again. She is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Homura prevents Madoka from contracting with Kyubey. Note that Homura does ''NOT'' kill Kyubey at this point, suggesting she found some other way to keep him away from Madoka.
*March 25 (Fri): Madoka dreams about Walpurgis Night from the previous timeline. However, the witch again appears different. Homura transfers into school. Madoka and Sayaka are introduced to magic and meet Mami. Homura kills Kyubey (for the first time in this timeline), and chases his second body until he meets Madoka. This was the originally scheduled airing date for the final episode.
*March ?? (School day): Madoka tells her mother about visiting Mami's apartment the previous evening. Madoka brings Kyubey to school and encounters Homura on the rooftop. Mami, Madoka, and Sayaka hunt down and defeat Gertrud. Japanese students attend school on Saturday, so it's possible for this to be March 26.
*March/April ?? (School/work day): Sayaka visits Kyousuke to deliver a CD. At night, she and Madoka discuss wishes with Mami. Madoka's mother comes home drunk.
*April 4 (Mon), estimate: Mami dies.
*April 5 (Tues), estimate: Waxing crescent moon. Definitely the next day. Madoka talks to Sayaka and Kyubey on the school roof. Madoka speaks with Homura after visiting Mami's apartment and mentions that Mami's death was yesterday. Sayaka contracts and defeats Elly. Kyoko arrives in town and talks to Kyubey.
*April 6 (Wed), estimate: Hitomi returns to school and mentions her troubles the night before. Sayaka visits Kyousuke, who still has to complete rehabilitation before being released, but plays his violin. Kyoko observes Sayaka through binoculars.
*April 8 (Fri): Kyoko attacks Sayaka in the alley.
*April 9 (Sat): Kyoko talks with Homura, who states that Walpurgis Night is in two weeks. (Homura is referring to the earliest possible date on which the witch might appear. The real life Walpurgis Night event falls on April 30, 21 days later. Two weeks after the 9th is the 23rd.)
*April 9 (Sat): Sayaka visits the alley in which she fought Kyoko to search for the familiar and refers to the battle as happening last night.
*April 10 (Sun): Sayaka visits the hospital only to discover that Kyousuke was released the day before. Sayaka approaches Kyousuke's house and encounters Kyoko, who mentions that Sayaka has been chasing after Kyousuke all day. They fight on the bridge where Madoka throws Sayaka's soul gem.
*April 10 (Sun): Full moon (In the real world, slightly more than a quarter moon). Kyubey tortures Sayaka through her soul gem. Based on Sayaka's comments, this most likely happened immediately after the bridge confrontation.
*April 11 (Mon): Sayaka and Kyoko meet in the church. Sayaka skips school on this day.
*April 12 (Tue): Full moon (In the real world, waxing half moon). Kyousuke returns to school and Hitomi mentions Sayaka's absence the day before. Hitomi delivers her ultimatum to Sayaka. At night, Sayaka goes on patrol and battles Elsa Maria. Sayaka goes missing after this day, according to the news report during her funeral scene in Episode 11.
*April 13 (Wed): Sayaka is absent from school. Hitomi and Kyousuke become a couple. Madoka searches for Sayaka, and learns that she hadn't returned home since the night before.
*April 18 (Mon) - April 22 (Fri): Homura and Kyoko discuss Walpurgis Night in the final scene of [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']]. However, this scene may take place in a different timeline, and is only speculated to be part of the main anime timeline.
*April 22 (Fri): Episodes 11 and 12 aired at 2:40 am. Good Friday.
*April 23 (Sat): Two weeks have passed since April 9, when Homura stated that Walpurgis Night was two weeks away. This is the earliest potential date for Walpurgis Night's attack on Mitakihara.
*April ??: Waning crescent moon. Sayaka is killing familiars, and Homura offers her a grief seed. Based on the change from a full moon to a crescent moon, there must be a time skip between the romance scene and the confrontation between Sayaka and Homura.
*April 27 (Wed, or 28th Thu), estimate: Waning crescent moon. Homura kills Kyubey in the park (the second kill in this timeline) and Sayaka becomes a witch.
*April 28 (Thu, or 29th Fri), estimate: Waning crescent moon. Kyoko kamikaze attacks Oktavia, killing them both.
*April 29 (Fri, or 30th Sat), estimate: Sayaka's funeral is held, Junko drinks with Kazuko, and Madoka visits Homura's apartment. Homura states that is has been approximately one month since she transferred into school.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun), estimate: Nearly new moon. Walpurgis Night. At the evacuation shelter, Junko is not wearing the same clothes she had on when she met Kazuko.
*May 1 (Sun): If Walpurgis Night appears on the midnight following April 30 according to the time zone of the Brocken mountain, matching the witching hour of the real life Walpurgis Night, it would appear in Japan at 8:00 AM. When Madoka defeats Walpurgis, the clouds part to reveal a blue daytime sky. The sun is not visible, so it is most likely still close to the horizon, as it would be if Walpurgis Night followed Brocken time. Germany is in UTC+1, and JST is UTC+9. Since time zones are rounded off, the exact time of appearance would be between 7:20 AM and 8:20 AM depending on where Mitakihara City is located in Japan.

Discrepancies:
*When Homura talks to Kyoko at the arcade, she states that Walpurgis Night is two weeks away, although the date of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_night real life Walpurgis Night event] falls three weeks later. In [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']] Homura indicates that the exact time of Walpurgis Night's appearance varies, and that the earliest observed time is on a weekend. April 23 is a Saturday, so Homura's "two weeks" referred to the earliest possible date.
*On April 10 and 12, the full moon shown in the anime does not match the half moon that occurred in real life. The moon phases observed in the anime are only compatible with the real moon if SHAFT is rounding the moon off to either a full or crescent shape for visual effect, and the Walpurgis Night witch appears near the real life date of Walpurgis Night.

== Timeline 6: The New World ==
A new timeline begins after Madoka makes her wish in Episode 12 and recreates the universe.
*April 2011: Kyousuke is healed, auditions, and becomes a concert violinist.
*Spring 2011: Sayaka kills herself by using up all of her power. Homura, Mami, and Kyoko, who were fighting alongside her, mourn her death in the train station.
*Spring 2011: Homura talks to Madoka's family in the park.
*Full moon. Homura discusses the history of the universe with Kyubey and battles demons in Mitakihara City.
*Unknown year: Homura battles demons in the middle of a wasteland outside of Japan. It is unclear whether this happens shortly after the other events, or takes place in the distant future.

The calendar we see in Homura's hospital room coincides with our actual calendar, year 2011. March has 31 days with the 25th falling on a Friday, and is the only such month in 2011. This means that the events in the anime take place while the show is airing in the real world. Episode 12 was originally set to air on the night before the events of Episode 1, and Homura's time loop restart point is during the week after the airing of Episode 10. Since Episodes 11 and 12 were delayed, their final airing dates occur during middle of Sayaka's downfall, on Good Friday.

In the anime, Hitomi gives one day's notice in Episode 7 and makes her move in Episode 8. Madoka is desperately searching for Sayaka and learns from Sayaka's parents that she hasn't come home since the previous night. These scenes occur only one day after the events of Episode 7. However, the moon is a thin waning crescent in Episode 8 and is full in Episode 7. A time skip must have occurred between those scenes and the confrontation between Sayaka and Homura. The news report heard during Sayaka's funeral suggests that she has been missing for some time, supporting the idea of a time skip.

== Number of Timelines ==
The total number of timelines Homura went through is not stated. [[Gen Urobuchi]], the writer, left many other issues open-ended, and most likely did not decide on a specific number. However, there are various speculations regarding the number of timelines.

Each timeline runs from March 16 until May 1, assuming Homura always resets immediately after Walpurgis Night. This is a span of 46 days. Eight loops add up to 368 days, just over a year. Sixty loops would require about seven and a half years, and Homura would have to loop 795 times to break a century. Since Homura is willing to reset time earlier if the situation calls for it, the 46 days per timeline figure is only an upper bound. However, if Homura is able to reset time from a later point, there may have been timelines in which Homura avoided fighting Walpurgis Night and a larger amount of time passed before a reset became necessary.

*Absolute minimum: The four timelines explored in depth in episode 10, the timeline at the end of episode 10 that looks similar but slightly different than the scene in episode 1, the main anime timeline, the new world, Oriko, and Sunny Day Life add up to nine timelines that have been explicitly shown, assuming they are all canon and the end of episode 10 was free of animation errors.

*Small numbers: There are 14 strings of fate attached to Madoka in the symbolic image displayed during Kyubey's lecture to Homura. If they directly represent timelines, rather than being drawn in that quantity for artistic reasons, there would be 16 timelines counting the main one and the new world. The anime's opening shows 11 slides when the scenes of Madoka as a magical girl are displayed with Madoka and Kyubey sitting in the foreground, which has lead to speculation that the main timeline is the 12th. Some fans believe that Homura's level of experience and degree of personality change indicate that she has only been through a small number of timelines: She was shocked to see Mami die in battle against Charlotte, she still has trouble handling misunderstandings with other people, she didn't hear Kyubey's explanation as to why Madoka is so powerful until the main timeline, her vulnerable inner personality remains under her cold outer shell, and she's still entirely sane, despite being heavily stressed.

*Medium numbers: Some believe that Homura experienced dozens, but less than a hundred timelines. This would allow her to exhaustively test a number of different strategies, but still have new ideas to try. She appears to have only tried the "give Madoka the cold shoulder" strategy a few times, and probably wouldn't attempt it before convincing herself that other plans won't work. Homura has her statistics (assuming that she was telling the truth about that), she's practiced enough at acting to come off as naturally cool and stylish to everyone despite having been extremely awkward in the beginning, she has memorized all the math perfectly even though homework is the least of her problems, and her elaborate setup against Walpurgis surely required quite a bit of trial and error to perfect and involved gathering a lot of gear that would be tricky to steal. However, she still encounters unexpected situations and hasn't figured out the ideal way to handle every issue that arises.

*Large numbers: Some speculators believe that Homura has truly been through countless timelines. One common estimate is 83 years in 1000 timelines, which assumes an average rate of one month per timeline. One might believe that Homura spent 80 years studying how to be cool.

<gallery>
File:Ep10-calendar.jpg|Homura's calendar at the hospital.
File:Moon-E4-Elly-fight.jpg|The moon on the night when Sayaka fought Elly in Episode 4.
File:Moon-E7-Intro.jpg|The moon at the start of Episode 7 when Kyubey tortures Sayaka.
File:Moon-E7-After-Hitomi-Ultimatum.jpg|The moon later in Episode 7, when Sayaka fights Elsa Maria.
File:Moon-E8-Homura-Sayaka-Confrontation.jpg|The moon when Homura confronts and threatens to kill Sayaka in Episode 8.
File:Moon-E8-Park.jpg|The moon during the Episode 8 park scene where Kyubey eats his own corpse.
File:Moon-E8-Park-2.jpg|The moon during the Episode 8 park scene when Homura reveals the name Incubator.
File:Moon-E8-End.jpg|The moon at the end of Episode 8 after Sayaka becomes a witch.
File:Moon-E8-End-2.jpg|Another shot of the moon at the end of Episode 8.
File:Moon-E9-Start.jpg|The moon in the beginning of Episode 9 when Homura and Kyoko escape from Oktavia's barrier.
File:Moon-E9-End.jpg|The moon at the end of Episode 9, on the next night when Oktavia is defeated.
File:WalpurgisDay.jpg|Walpurgis Night is defeated, and daylight appears.
File:Moon-E12-NearEnd.jpg|The moon near the end of Episode 12, when Homura discusses the history of the universe with Kyubey.
</gallery>

[[Category:Articles]]

Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-08-30T06:09:48Z

Magic9mushroom: This ain't Wikipedia, but let's have a version that's not obviously biased, mmkay?

{{spoilers}}
[[File:Timeline Chart.png|thumb|200px|The sequences of events in each timeline.]]
[[File:Moon-phases-tokyo-time.PNG|thumb|200px|The phases of the moon in March and April 2011, Tokyo time.]]

== All Timelines ==
*The backstories of Kyoko and Mami, and the events in [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']].
**2009: Kyoko becomes a magical girl. In the drama CD, she states that she contracted roughly a year before the battle in which she met Mami.
**2010: Madoka and Sayaka were in Class 1A in the drama CD's opening scene. They are in their second year during the anime, which is set in 2011, placing this scene in the previous year. Kyoko and Mami become friends. Kyoko loses her family, turns against Mami, and sets out on her own.
*The events in [[Puella Magi Kazumi Magica]] probably happened before the timelines diverged, although it's unknown whether this series takes place before or during the anime.

== Timeline 1: Normal Homura ==
*March 16 (Wed), offscreen: Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school and meets Madoka. She is attacked by Izabel and is saved by Madoka and Mami. She learns about magic.
*March 25 - April 30: The first drama CD, [[Drama_CD_1 | Memories of You]] takes place during this timeline.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Mami is killed, while Madoka sacrifices herself to destroy the witch. Homura contracts, her wish being to redo her first meeting with Madoka. Time resets.

Inferences: Sayaka never contracted. Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara.

== Timeline 2: Homura is a Magical Girl ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura's time loop starts. She is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school and tells Madoka she's a magical girl.
*In between March 25 and April 30, but closer to March: Homura shows her powers to Mami and Madoka. Later she makes pipe bombs, and uses them to defeat Patricia. Madoka, Mami, and Homura fought as a magical girl trio.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Madoka destroys the witch, but becomes a witch herself. Time resets.

Inferences: Sayaka never contracted. Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara. Mami probably died fighting Walpurgis Night, but since we never see it happen, it's possible she survived (or died earlier).

==Timeline 3: The Magical Girl Team ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Madoka contracts with Kyubey.
*March 25 (Fri): Homura transfers into school. We can infer that she told Madoka and Mami she was a magical girl.
*In between March 25 and April 30, in estimated chronological order:
**Sayaka contracts and becomes a magical girl.
**It can be inferred that Madoka, Mami, Sayaka, and Homura fought together at least once, and that Sayaka was concerned about getting caught in an explosion.
**It can be inferred Kyoko is somehow contacted, likely by Homura and/or Mami, to help with Walpurgis Night.
**Homura tells Sayaka, Mami, and Madoka about the true nature of witches. Sayaka doesn't believe her, and also distrusts the idea of Kyoko coming to Mitakihara. She tells Homura to find a new weapon.
**Homura steals firearms from the Yakuza.
**Kyoko comes to Mitakihara town. It can be inferred that she began to care for Sayaka in some fashion (based off her last words in this timeline).
**Sayaka becomes a witch. Madoka, Mami, Kyoko, and Homura fight her, and she is destroyed by Homura. After the battle, Mami snaps and kills Kyoko, and then is killed by Madoka to stop her from killing Homura. It is possible that Madoka picked up Sayaka's Grief Seed after the battle. This event probably happened shortly before April 30th.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**Madoka and Homura defeat the witch, but are in danger of becoming witches themselves. Madoka uses one last Grief Seed (possibly Sayaka's) to purify Homura's Soul Gem. She then asks Homura to kill her in the current timeline, and stop her from contracting in the next timeline. Homura does what she says. Time resets.

== Timeline 4: Homura Fights Alone ==
*March 16 (Wed): Homura is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Homura prevents Madoka from contracting with Kyubey.
*Between March 18 and April 30:
** Homura kills Kyubey at least once, and warns Madoka against contracting. The exact time is a bit unclear. It is possible that Homura killed Kyubey on March 18th. On the other hand, because Madoka seems to recognize Homura when she appears outside her window, it's possible Homura killed Kyubey on or after March 25th, after transferring into school. It's also possible Homura never went to school in this timeline, focusing entirely on killing witches, and Madoka only recognized Homura from dreaming about a previous timeline.
** Homura steals weapons from the military and fights as many witches as possible.
*April 23 (Sat): The earliest possible date of Walpurgis Night's appearance.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun): The date of the real life Walpurgis Night, and a possible date of the witch's appearance.
**The witch appears different from the one seen in the first timeline. Homura fails to defeat the witch. Madoka contracts with Kyubey and kills the witch with one shot. She then becomes an even more powerful witch that can destroy humanity in ten days. Time resets.

Inferences: Mami, Kyoko and Sayaka were unseen in this timeline, which opens several possibilities. But it's likely that Sayaka didn't contract, Kyoko never came back to Mitakihara, and Mami died before or on Walpurgis Night.

== Additional Timelines ==
It's speculated that an unknown number of timelines fell between Timeline 4 and Timeline 5 while Homura repeatedly attempted to save Madoka.
*Timeline 4.1: The scenes at the end of episode 10, where Homura kills Kyubey, appear to be showing one of them. There are minor differences between these scenes and the similar ones at the beginning of the anime.
*Timeline 4.x: The spin-off manga, [[Puella Magi Oriko Magica]], takes place in a timeline that is not shown in the anime. This timeline happens after Homura changes her hairstyle, but before Madoka eliminates witches. It is believed to fall between timelines 4 and 5, but there has also been speculation that it is part of a separate story continuity and might not fit in with anime timelines.
** According to Homura, the Oriko timeline is considered to be an anomaly, an indicator that the events taking place was highly unexpected.
*** It is possible that the Oriko timeline takes place sometime between March 16 and May 1.
** It has been speculated however that Oriko's prediction of Walpurgis Night happened in prior timelines. It would explain why Mami knew that Walpurgis Night was coming in Chapter 1; Kyubey learned it from Oriko and then told Mami.
*** Unless a Walpurgis Night event has already happened in the past and this could be common knowledge among veterans, information about a festival of witches is already recorded in history.
**** In [[Episode 8]], Kyoko tells Homura that she has never heard of Walpurgis Night ever coming to [[Mitakihara Town|Mitakihara]] before, so yes, a Walpurgis Night event has happened in the past, it is a well known event among veteran Puellae Magi, and perhaps it happened in different cities around the globe during the night of the festival of witches.
***** Based on the current information plus the fact that the Oriko timeline is considered to be an irregularity by Homura, the chances that Oriko predicts Walpurgis Night in prior timelines is highly unlikely. A more likely scenario is that Oriko predicted Walpurgis Night only once, and it happened sometime after March 16 but before May 1. On a timeline that was not suppose to take place but it did, a random chance that wont happen again in any other timeline.
*Timeline 4.y: [[Drama_CD_2 | Sunny Day Life]], the second drama CD, probably takes place in one of these timelines, since Homura's behavior indicates that she has experienced multiple timelines and matured beyond her initial "Moemura" stage. However, some fans speculate that this timeline occurs earlier or that it is not part of the real story continuity at all.

== Timeline 5: The Main Anime Timeline ==
The number of repetitions Homura has been through before this timeline is much greater, but this is the fifth timeline covered by the anime, so it is still referred to as timeline 5. This is the main timeline, and the majority of the anime takes place in it.
*March 16 (Wed): Homura's time loop starts again. She is released from the hospital.
*March 18 (Fri), estimate: Homura prevents Madoka from contracting with Kyubey. Note that Homura does ''NOT'' kill Kyubey at this point, suggesting she found some other way to keep him away from Madoka.
*March 25 (Fri): Madoka dreams about Walpurgis Night from the previous timeline. However, the witch again appears different. Homura transfers into school. Madoka and Sayaka are introduced to magic and meet Mami. Homura kills Kyubey (for the first time in this timeline), and chases his second body until he meets Madoka. This was the originally scheduled airing date for the final episode.
*March ?? (School day): Madoka tells her mother about visiting Mami's apartment the previous evening. Madoka brings Kyubey to school and encounters Homura on the rooftop. Mami, Madoka, and Sayaka hunt down and defeat Gertrud. Japanese students attend school on Saturday, so it's possible for this to be March 26.
*March/April ?? (School/work day): Sayaka visits Kyousuke to deliver a CD. At night, she and Madoka discuss wishes with Mami. Madoka's mother comes home drunk.
*April 4 (Mon), estimate: Mami dies.
*April 5 (Tues), estimate: Waxing crescent moon. Definitely the next day. Madoka talks to Sayaka and Kyubey on the school roof. Madoka speaks with Homura after visiting Mami's apartment and mentions that Mami's death was yesterday. Sayaka contracts and defeats Elly. Kyoko arrives in town and talks to Kyubey.
*April 6 (Wed), estimate: Hitomi returns to school and mentions her troubles the night before. Sayaka visits Kyousuke, who still has to complete rehabilitation before being released, but plays his violin. Kyoko observes Sayaka through binoculars.
*April 8 (Fri): Kyoko attacks Sayaka in the alley.
*April 9 (Sat): Kyoko talks with Homura, who states that Walpurgis Night is in two weeks. (Homura is referring to the earliest possible date on which the witch might appear. The real life Walpurgis Night event falls on April 30, 21 days later. Two weeks after the 9th is the 23rd.)
*April 9 (Sat): Sayaka visits the alley in which she fought Kyoko to search for the familiar and refers to the battle as happening last night.
*April 10 (Sun): Sayaka visits the hospital only to discover that Kyousuke was released the day before. Sayaka approaches Kyousuke's house and encounters Kyoko, who mentions that Sayaka has been chasing after Kyousuke all day. They fight on the bridge where Madoka throws Sayaka's soul gem.
*April 10 (Sun): Full moon (In the real world, slightly more than a quarter moon). Kyubey tortures Sayaka through her soul gem. Based on Sayaka's comments, this most likely happened immediately after the bridge confrontation.
*April 11 (Mon): Sayaka and Kyoko meet in the church. Sayaka skips school on this day.
*April 12 (Tue): Full moon (In the real world, waxing half moon). Kyousuke returns to school and Hitomi mentions Sayaka's absence the day before. Hitomi delivers her ultimatum to Sayaka. At night, Sayaka goes on patrol and battles Elsa Maria. Sayaka goes missing after this day, according to the news report during her funeral scene in Episode 11.
*April 13 (Wed): Sayaka is absent from school. Hitomi and Kyousuke become a couple. Madoka searches for Sayaka, and learns that she hadn't returned home since the night before.
*April 18 (Mon) - April 22 (Fri): Homura and Kyoko discuss Walpurgis Night in the final scene of [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']]. However, this scene may take place in a different timeline, and is only speculated to be part of the main anime timeline.
*April 22 (Fri): Episodes 11 and 12 aired at 2:40 am. Good Friday.
*April 23 (Sat): Two weeks have passed since April 9, when Homura stated that Walpurgis Night was two weeks away. This is the earliest potential date for Walpurgis Night's attack on Mitakihara.
*April ??: Waning crescent moon. Sayaka is killing familiars, and Homura offers her a grief seed. Based on the change from a full moon to a crescent moon, there must be a time skip between the romance scene and the confrontation between Sayaka and Homura.
*April 27 (Wed, or 28th Thu), estimate: Waning crescent moon. Homura kills Kyubey in the park (the second kill in this timeline) and Sayaka becomes a witch.
*April 28 (Thu, or 29th Fri), estimate: Waning crescent moon. Kyoko kamikaze attacks Oktavia, killing them both.
*April 29 (Fri, or 30th Sat), estimate: Sayaka's funeral is held, Junko drinks with Kazuko, and Madoka visits Homura's apartment. Homura states that is has been approximately one month since she transferred into school.
*April 30 (Sat) - May 1 (Sun), estimate: Nearly new moon. Walpurgis Night. At the evacuation shelter, Junko is not wearing the same clothes she had on when she met Kazuko.
*May 1 (Sun): If Walpurgis Night appears on the midnight following April 30 according to the time zone of the Brocken mountain, matching the witching hour of the real life Walpurgis Night, it would appear in Japan at 8:00 AM. When Madoka defeats Walpurgis, the clouds part to reveal a blue daytime sky. The sun is not visible, so it is most likely still close to the horizon, as it would be if Walpurgis Night followed Brocken time. Germany is in UTC+1, and JST is UTC+9. Since time zones are rounded off, the exact time of appearance would be between 7:20 AM and 8:20 AM depending on where Mitakihara City is located in Japan.

Discrepancies:
*When Homura talks to Kyoko at the arcade, she states that Walpurgis Night is two weeks away, although the date of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_night real life Walpurgis Night event] falls three weeks later. In [[Drama CD 3|Drama CD 3: ''"Farewell Story"'']] Homura indicates that the exact time of Walpurgis Night's appearance varies, and that the earliest observed time is on a weekend. April 23 is a Saturday, so Homura's "two weeks" referred to the earliest possible date.
*On April 10 and 12, the full moon shown in the anime does not match the half moon that occurred in real life. The moon phases observed in the anime are only compatible with the real moon if SHAFT is rounding the moon off to either a full or crescent shape for visual effect, and the Walpurgis Night witch appears near the real life date of Walpurgis Night.

== Timeline 6: The New World ==
A new timeline begins after Madoka makes her wish in Episode 12 and recreates the universe.
*April 2011: Kyousuke is healed, auditions, and becomes a concert violinist.
*Spring 2011: Sayaka kills herself by using up all of her power. Homura, Mami, and Kyoko, who were fighting alongside her, mourn her death in the train station.
*Spring 2011: Homura talks to Madoka's family in the park.
*Full moon. Homura discusses the history of the universe with Kyubey and battles demons in Mitakihara City.
*Unknown year: Homura battles demons in the middle of a wasteland outside of Japan. It is unclear whether this happens shortly after the other events, or takes place in the distant future.

The calendar we see in Homura's hospital room coincides with our actual calendar, year 2011. March has 31 days with the 25th falling on a Friday, and is the only such month in 2011. This means that the events in the anime take place while the show is airing in the real world. Episode 12 was originally set to air on the night before the events of Episode 1, and Homura's time loop restart point is during the week after the airing of Episode 10. Since Episodes 11 and 12 were delayed, their final airing dates occur during middle of Sayaka's downfall, on Good Friday.

In the anime, Hitomi gives one day's notice in Episode 7 and makes her move in Episode 8. Madoka is desperately searching for Sayaka and learns from Sayaka's parents that she hasn't come home since the previous night. These scenes occur only one day after the events of Episode 7. However, the moon is a thin waning crescent in Episode 8 and is full in Episode 7. A time skip must have occurred between those scenes and the confrontation between Sayaka and Homura. The news report heard during Sayaka's funeral suggests that she has been missing for some time, supporting the idea of a time skip.

== Number of Timelines ==
The total number of timelines Homura went through is not stated. [[Gen Urobuchi]], the writer, left many other issues open-ended, and most likely did not decide on a specific number. However, there are various speculations regarding the number of timelines.

Each timeline runs from March 16 until May 1, assuming Homura always resets immediately after Walpurgis Night. This is a span of 46 days. Eight loops add up to 368 days, just over a year. Sixty loops would require about seven and a half years, and Homura would have to loop 795 times to break a century. Since Homura is willing to reset time earlier if the situation calls for it, the 46 days per timeline figure is only an upper bound. However, if Homura is able to reset time from a later point, there may have been timelines in which Homura avoided fighting Walpurgis Night and a larger amount of time passed before a reset became necessary.

*Absolute minimum: The four timelines explored in depth in episode 10, the timeline at the end of episode 10 that looks similar but slightly different than the scene in episode 1, the main anime timeline, Oriko, and Sunny Day Life add up to eight timelines that have been explicitly shown, assuming they are all canon and the end of episode 10 was free of animation errors.

*Small numbers: There are 14 strings of fate attached to Madoka in the symbolic image displayed during Kyubey's lecture to Homura. If they directly represent timelines, rather than being drawn in that quantity for artistic reasons, there would be 16 timelines counting the main one and the new world. The anime's opening shows 11 slides when the scenes of Madoka as a magical girl are displayed with Madoka and Kyubey sitting in the foreground, which has lead to speculation that the main timeline is the 12th. Some fans believe that Homura's level of experience and degree of personality change indicate that she has only been through a small number of timelines: She was shocked to see Mami die in battle against Charlotte, she still has trouble handling misunderstandings with other people, she didn't hear Kyubey's explanation as to why Madoka is so powerful until the main timeline, her vulnerable inner personality remains under her cold outer shell, and she's still entirely sane, despite being heavily stressed.

*Medium numbers: Some believe that Homura experienced dozens, but less than a hundred timelines. This would allow her to exhaustively test a number of different strategies, but still have new ideas to try. She appears to have only tried the "give Madoka the cold shoulder" strategy a few times, and probably wouldn't attempt it before convincing herself that other plans won't work. Homura has her statistics (assuming that she was telling the truth about that), she's practiced enough at acting to come off as naturally cool and stylish to everyone despite having been extremely awkward in the beginning, she has memorized all the math perfectly even though homework is the least of her problems, and her elaborate setup against Walpurgis surely required quite a bit of trial and error to perfect and involved gathering a lot of gear that would be tricky to steal. However, she still encounters unexpected situations and hasn't figured out the ideal way to handle every issue that arises.

*Large numbers: Some speculators believe that Homura has truly been through countless timelines. One common estimate is 83 years in 1000 timelines, which assumes an average rate of one month per timeline. One might believe that Homura spent 80 years studying how to be cool.

<gallery>
File:Ep10-calendar.jpg|Homura's calendar at the hospital.
File:Moon-E4-Elly-fight.jpg|The moon on the night when Sayaka fought Elly in Episode 4.
File:Moon-E7-Intro.jpg|The moon at the start of Episode 7 when Kyubey tortures Sayaka.
File:Moon-E7-After-Hitomi-Ultimatum.jpg|The moon later in Episode 7, when Sayaka fights Elsa Maria.
File:Moon-E8-Homura-Sayaka-Confrontation.jpg|The moon when Homura confronts and threatens to kill Sayaka in Episode 8.
File:Moon-E8-Park.jpg|The moon during the Episode 8 park scene where Kyubey eats his own corpse.
File:Moon-E8-Park-2.jpg|The moon during the Episode 8 park scene when Homura reveals the name Incubator.
File:Moon-E8-End.jpg|The moon at the end of Episode 8 after Sayaka becomes a witch.
File:Moon-E8-End-2.jpg|Another shot of the moon at the end of Episode 8.
File:Moon-E9-Start.jpg|The moon in the beginning of Episode 9 when Homura and Kyoko escape from Oktavia's barrier.
File:Moon-E9-End.jpg|The moon at the end of Episode 9, on the next night when Oktavia is defeated.
File:WalpurgisDay.jpg|Walpurgis Night is defeated, and daylight appears.
File:Moon-E12-NearEnd.jpg|The moon near the end of Episode 12, when Homura discusses the history of the universe with Kyubey.
</gallery>

[[Category:Articles]]

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-08-22T04:53:02Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Highest solo clocking? */

Community:Grief Syndrome

2011-08-21T10:12:58Z

Magic9mushroom: "Stat" in this context is short for "statistic", not "status". I didn't know whether "statistic" would overload the box.

[[File:Griefsyndrome.jpg|350px|thumb|right|]]
[[Image:Twilightfrontier.png | http://www.tasofro.net]]

[http://www.tasofro.net/mdk/ Grief Syndrome] is a doujin game by [http://www.tasofro.net Twilight Frontier] (also known as Tasofro) which was released at Comiket 80 on August 13, 2011. It is a side-scrolling beat-em-up featuring the characters of Puella Magi Madoka Magica. 1 to 3 players can play with local (all gamepads/keyboards connected to the same computer) multiplayer.

==Frequently Asked Questions==
*Online multiplayer where?
:The game doesn't support online play. Earlier Tasofro games have had online multiplayer, so there may be some hope of an update if the game is successful.
*How do I play multiplayer?
:First you need to assign keys for other players using the configuration program. Then at the character select screen players 2 and 3 can join by pressing their select buttons (weak attack).
*Do I need an English translation?
:No, many things are already in English and the game is playable with no knowledge of Japanese.
*Error: d3dx9_43.dll not found
:Open the directx folder that comes with the installer and run DXSETUP.exe or download the dll and place it into game folder next to griefsyndrome.exe
*It still won't run.
:Try setting your system locale to JAP in the Region and Language Settings, then restart.
*How do you save the game?
:The game saves your lap and some statistics when you defeat Walpurgis Night. You can't save in the middle of a run or keep levels unlocked between runs. Make sure the game is in its default directory and that it has write permission.
*How do you use full screen?
:Alt+Enter. You can use the configuration program to enable the full screen feature.
*The kyubey icon/configuration program won't open even though the game is not running
:Set the compatibility mode to NT 4.0 and run the program as Administrator
*Is there a way to change the BGM?
:The BGM music data file is the one labeled GS01.dat. You will need an extractor/ dat compiler to do this

==Gameplay==

Players begin a new game in Gertrud's level. They must fight through each level in sequence, defeating Gertrud, Charlotte, Elly, Elsa Maria, and Walpurgis Night. A bonus Oktavia level is unlocked if Sayaka dies. Magical girls cannot be resurrected when they run out of soul limit, except by restarting the game from the beginning and discarding all current progress.

Magical girls have health bars and soul limit counters. Permanent death occurs when the soul limit reaches zero. The health bar is recharged by consuming soul limit after taking damage. When the health bar becomes empty or the girl falls down a deadly pit, a percentage of her soul limit points is consumed to construct a new body for her. Using special abilities turns part of the health bar blue. No soul limit is lost if it recharges while still blue, but taking any damage during this period will turn the blue area into additional damage.

Defeating enemies causes the girls to level up, increasing their damage output and survivability. The maximum level is 99. The soul limit is fully recharged after defeating a witch.

Defeating Walpurgis Night completes a lap. One of many ending screens is displayed depending on which girls remain alive, and your game is saved. You can start a new game from the next lap. As lap number increases, enemy attack power and health increases, so the game becomes more difficult, but the girls will also level up more quickly. Unlike the girls, the bosses can have levels over 99. On the higher laps, their levels will even be in the thousands, if not tens of thousands.

The highest lap known to be unlocked so far is 458330. Lap numbers are unlocked based this formula: highest lap beaten squared plus one.<br>
lap 1^2+1=2<br>
lap 2^2+1=5<br>
lap 5^2+1=26<br>
lap 26^2+1=677<br>
lap 677^2+1=458330<br>
etc.

==Controls==
*Left, Right: Move sideways
*Up, Down: Aim or use alternate attacks in combination with the Z and X keys
*Z: Quick/Weak attack (select at menu screens)
*X: Strong attack (go back at menu screens)
*A: Special Ability
*C: Jump. Hold down and press C while standing on platforms to drop through.
*Q: Menu

Some players use a number pad mapping terminology to name moves. For example, "8Z x2 j.6X" The first number is a position on the number pad: 8=up, 6=right, 2=down, 5=neutral, corresponding to how a joystick would work. The letter after it is the default key for that ability. x followed by a number means repeat it that many times. "j." means to do it while jumping.

==Configuration==
The program with a Kyubey icon allows you to configure the game. Make sure the game is not running when you use it.

[[File:GriefSyndromeConfig.png | 300px]]

One popular modification is changing the jump key to space. The configuration program also allows you to mute the sound or enable full screen.

If the controls menu does not open, and you're not in Windows 7, try activating NT compatibility mode in properties. There has been a report of a bug that only allows one key to be changed at a time.

==Characters==

===Madoka===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Madoka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmadokaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Stat base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">92</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">28875</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+128</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">9.6%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">45</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Madoka is a ranged attacker who relies on charging up abilities. She can use cheap tactics to rain destruction on enemies without allowing them any opportunity to fight back, and possesses a huge soul limit, but she is vulnerable to being interrupted while charging attacks, has a limited set of abilities, and her main attacks require precise aiming.

Abilities:
*Strong Attack: Fire a piercing arrow horizontally. Holding the key down causes Madoka to charge up for more power. Charged version has unlimited piercing and will knockback into a wallbounce.
*Quick Attack: Fire a barrage of arrows. Holding the key down increases the number of arrows fired. Holding up or down while starting the attack causes Madoka to aim upwards or downwards. Pushes back both large and small enemies.
*Special: Arrows rain from the sky, damaging all enemies near Madoka. The shower will knock down enemies.
*Charging: While charging up attacks, Madoka can float in the air. She can do this indefinitely, staying out of an enemy's reach.
*Idle: Madoka looks super cute.

Review/Tips:
Madoka has the most SL out of the characters, both starting and growth rate. Don't take her charging shots for granted, they are very effective in stunning/controlling mobs of enemies, especially with their knockback. All her moves essentially put the enemies in a stun state and do quick and rapid damage. To get out of a crowded situation you can fire her special as a canopy of safety, while it rains death on the enemy you are being protected at the same time. Not bad eh? When she fires her bow in midair, it creates a magical platform where she is suspended for a few seconds. Madoka can store a charge of the quick attack by jumping after charging it, or by fully charging a strong attack. If a quick attack is used next, it will start charging from level 2. Therefore, alternating between strong and quick attacks maximizes damage.

===Homura===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Homura
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gshomuidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Stat base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">88</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+4</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">17460</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+102</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">16.5%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">50</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Homura is a ranged attacker who uses combinations of explosives and gunfire to attack. She's deadly and versatile, but has a very low soul limit and requires tactical play to set up combos.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Fire a rather weak handgun. Can be fired 7 times. Bullets will disappear before reaching full screen.
*Standing Strong Attack: M249 Machine gun. If used midair, the gun will change to a Howa Type 59 but do the same damage. Will slow your fall in mid-air. Bullets do not disappear. Slightly pushes Homura back.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: AT-4. May be jump-canceled anytime after the projectile is fired. May miss close grounded enemies.
*Down Strong Attack: Jump and drop a grenade. Pushes Homura back a little. Holding left or right will throw the bomb farther.
*Up Strong Attack: Mortar. May be jump-canceled any time after the mortar appears, even before it is fired, making this move effective for setting up high-damage combos.
*Up Strong Attack(mid-air): Throws a pipe bomb upwards. Moves Homura forward slightly. Holding left or right will throw the bomb farther.
*Special: Freeze time for a few seconds.
*Idle: The wind be blowing back and forward a lot.

Review/Tips:
Homura is a great character to have for multiplayer. Not only does her special
(time freeze) stack with other character's moves, but she has quite a few defensive
maneuvers as well. While weak in the soul limit and life department, she does
have the second fastest growth of soul limit per level. Though her Soul Limit is quite low and drains quickly and she lacks the jumping abilities of the other girls, she makes up for it with fast projectiles and a time-freezing special. It's worthy of note that Homura and her allies are completely invulnerable to enemy attacks during a time stop and can walk into projectiles and enemies without consequences.

Mortar/Nade Spam: Hold up/right or up/left then tap XC repeatedly to rain down explosions to your enemies

Homura rocket-cancel: Hold right or left direction then X followed by CX then followed by CX, if done correctly you should fire 3 rockets in one go

A decent combo for her is to freeze time, throw a grenade, then shoot the bazooka and finish off with a standing strong attack. This should generally launch them up and use the bazooka to push them while the bullets are hitting them.

===Mami===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Mami
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gsmamiidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Stat base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">110</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+5</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">22278</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+84</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">14.8%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">100</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Mami is a hybrid melee-ranged fighter who is widely regarded as the most difficult character to play. Her muskets have a very short range, her damage is low, and her truly powerful move, Tiro Finale, turns an enormous amount of the health bar blue.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Summon and fire muskets in succession with very low range, but AoE damage. Can be pressed 8 times.
*Standing Strong Attack: Multiple Muskets. The longer you hold it the more muskets will appear. This can hold you still in the air. You can jump cancel this move at any time. Doing so before letting the Strong Attack button go will cause the summoned muskets to disappear without firing. If you jump cancel after letting go, however, the muskets will fire and then disappear like normal.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: Step forward and strike the enemy with muskets, followed by a very strong dual musket shot with a little movement in the direction you are pressing. Hits behind Mami as well.
*Down Strong Attack: A cloth whip that will hold enemies still. You can continue holding the button down to keep them still longer. Will not hold bosses down.
*Up Strong Attack: Mami's hands turn into cannons and fire upwards diagonally to either side. Does not hit directly above her, though it has good vertical range.
*Down and jump: Dive downward and hit for no damage, but if she hits an enemy she will jump off.
*Special: Tiro Finale. Summons a very large musket and fires a strong laser. Considering the subtraction from the health bar, this move is extremely risky, and is best used to punish bosses when they present an opening. The button can be hold down for a longer duration, but consume more in the process. (i.e. Impossible to perform when the move can drain nearly all of the bar)
*Idle: I can almost see them! ALMOST! ALMOST!

Review/Tips:
Mami has a sizable SL supply but takes a considerable hit when reviving as well (nearly double the cost of some other characters) making her large pool quite deceptive as you will see your reserves run dry if you are not careful.
While extremely vulnerable if enemies get the upper hand, her evasion skills are unsurpassed. Jumping and shooting the rifle leaves her nearly invulnerable while floating airborne. Her hitbox is near her feet at this state. The same goes for the dual cannon move which does big damage to boot. Her special is a boss killer but be aware you need to back up more since the gun takes a large portion of the screen and only hits in front. I would say you need to back up nearly full screen distance for it to hit. Repeatedly jump-canceling her forward-strong attack allows her to advance across the screen while attacking. Using her up strong attack during the rising part of a jump causes her to do the attack during the jump. Using it during the falling part of a jump causes her to do an extra small jump and then the attack. This attack can be used as a third jump in tight situations. Also, a good way to do damage against high up or large enemies is to do an up strong attack on the ground, and then jump cancel it and do a rising up strong attack and repeat when you land. Using her down strong attack causes a quick jump forward, and if you cancel it right after the whip comes out with a jump, you can move forward quickly.

===Sayaka===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Sayaka
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gssayakaidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Stat base</td><td nowrap="nowrap" style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">138</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+6</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">19935</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+82</td>
<tr><td nowrap="nowrap" style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive   </td><td style="text-align:left;">6.2%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">20 (+20 to add Strong Attack)</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Sayaka is a mobile melee fighter who uses charges and aerial attacks. She is an extremely powerful solo character whose diving attack can destroy enemies easily. Her strong attacks can chain into each other, making her extremely mobile while attacking.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Swing her sword back and forward. Can be pressed 8 times with the 8th being a step froward and slash.
*Standing Strong Attack: Lunge forward. Chargeable.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: Forward slash attack. Will knock back small enemies.
*Down Strong Attack: Jump backwards and then diagonally attack the way you were facing.
*Up Strong Attack: Jump forward diagonally. Can be done twice. Beware using this move in the air, it incurs a long recovery time.
*Down and jump: Dive downward and hit for no damage, but if she hits an enemy she will jump off.
*Special: Forward dash. Press Strong Attack during the beginning to add a powerful attack with some extra cost to your bar. During the dash you do not take hit stun, but you can still take damage.
*Idle: Bouncy. Well, except for her chest. Why so flat, Sayaka?

Review/Tips:
Sayaka is the definitive powerhouse that can tank it out with little to no effort.
Her attacks are very strong and fast and is probably the most powerful character in the game (at least for lower Laps).
Her left/right strong attack will stun enemies and send them flying into the wall. A good way damage enemies, especially those on later laps with lots of hp, without fear of retaliation is to continuously hit them into the wall. This works on larger enemies, as well. Just hit them as they're bouncing off the wall to negate their super armor, and then the next hit will slam them into the wall, again.
You have to really try hard to die on the first few laps of the game. I wonder what happens if she does die...

===Kyouko===

<table class="infobox" style="width:22em;text-align:left;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em; padding: 0.2em; border:solid #aaa 1px;float:right;clear:right;">
<th colspan="3" style="text-align:center;background-color:#CCF;font-size: 120%;font-weight:bold;">
Kyouko
</th>
<tr><td colspan="3" style="text-align: center;">[[File:Gskyokoidle.gif]]</td></tr>
<tr><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Parameter</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Stat base</td><td style="background-color: #EEF; font-weight: bold; text-align: center;">Per level</td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Vitality</td><td style="text-align:left;">95</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+5</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Power</td><td style="text-align:left;">10</td style="text-align: left;"><td>+1</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Soul limit</td><td style="text-align:left;">23742 </td style="text-align: left;"><td>+87</td>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">SL lost in revive</td><td style="text-align:left;">12.5%</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td style="text-align:left;background-color:#EEF; font-weight:bold;}">Special cost</td><td style="text-align:left;">35</td style="text-align: left;"><td></td></tr></table>

Kyouko is an offensively oriented melee fighter who has high damage attacks that cover wide areas. She is an extremely powerful solo character who can destroy waves of enemies easily in the early laps, but she can't handle taking very much damage.

Abilities:
*Quick Attack: Swing her spear. 2 pokes 6 swings. Can be pressed 8 times.
*Standing Strong Attack: Lunge forward. Chargeable.
*Left/Right Strong Attack: Spinning double hit.
*Down Strong Attack: Jump and slash down. While in midair her attack changes to a charge downward.
*Up Strong Attack: Use her spear like a pole vault bending it and causing it to spring upward. Even in the air...
*Down and jump: Dive downward and hit for no damage, but if she hits an enemy she will jump off.
*Special: Create a barrier to block the enemies.
*Idle: No Pocky?

Review/Tips:
Kyouko is no pushover and is excellent at crowd control and melee combat.
Although the slower of the two tanks, Kyouko's spear launch move deals great damage and is particularly effective at evading attacks. The spear charge is her damage-dealer. Her Spear twirl grants invulnerability frames. Her special has limited use, such as projectile evading but usually hurts more than helps her because it ironically leaves this tank in a vulnerable state.

The most useful attack for Kyouko at lower levels (i.e., Lap 26) is her Up Strong Attack. This attack is her third strongest attack (behind the Charged Lunge and Downward Strong attacks), covers an enormous area (including behind her) and can be spammed quickly, juggling enemies with ease. At lower levels, this attack will OHKO small enemies rendering even the largest crowds a trivial chore.

Kyouko combo: Zx5 + 5X + 6X + j2X + j2X or j8X

==Stages==

===Gertrud===

Gertrud boss fight

Small Anthony enemies (the ones with mustaches) spawn indefinitely during this boss fight. Gertrud, grounded, will slowly moves about the stage. She will alternate between these attacks at random:
* Body slam forward. Be careful, this move has farther range than it appears. Hits on the ground where her body impacts.
* Jump forward, up, or back and hit you where she lands. Only hits around her feet.
* Back up quickly and hit you by her feet. This is typically followed up by one of her other attacks.
* Jump straight up into the ceiling and position herself above where you are. After a time she will fall straight back down and do a body slam.
* Send out a large scissor attack that has pretty large range in front of her. Both the scissors and the vines they're connected to can hit you.
* Summon Adelbert enemies (the small white enemies) from the ground at spaced intervals. After a brief time, the Adelberts will turn into spikes to form walls. After the summoning Gertrud will typically do her ceiling jump attack if you're far away, or her other moves if you're close by.
Considering her attacks, it's pretty safe to do air attacks since most of Gertrud's attacks only hit near the ground. The Adelbert enemies she summons can be destroyed in one hit by strong attacks, unlike those found in the stage, so you can easily destroy them and run away instead of being trapped waiting for her to fall on you.

===Charlotte===
This stage is pretty linear like all the other stages but you'll come across a maze half way through, its best to follow the doors that have a blue hue(not the door color itself, but the light shining out of it) do this until you reach a room with the two staircases on either side, then head to the pink one(it should be after the one room filled w/ two giant rat enemies and their small minions). Though the game will take pity on you eventually and head you onward to the correct path, if you do mess up repeatedly. Though in later laps, it becomes beneficial to mess up and redo these rooms to grind for levels but this loop(the 2 big mice room and double staircase room) will only lasts four times, since starting the fifth one, the game will correct you to the path to Charlotte.

Charlotte boss fight

Charlotte initially appears in her first form and never moves or attacks you. To begin the true boss fight, you must defeat this first form. In the mean time, small enemies spawn indefinitely throughout the stage. Once you've defeated the first form, her second form appears from above in the center of the stage and bites downward. This can hit you for large damage. Don't be intimidated by her large size. The actual area where she can damage you is generally centered around her face when she attacks. She will alternate between these attacks at random:
* Bite forward and downward or upwards towards where you are.
* Jump forward and slams down on the ground in front.
* Charge up for a bit before moving forward for while, biting low at ground level or high at platform level toward where you are. High version can end with a body slam that hits the ground in front.
* She will back up several times, typically followed by another attack.
* Jump upward off the screen. She then appears above you and bites downward. This move is very powerful so do your best to avoid it.
Considering her attack pattern, it is fairly safe to stay near her, as long as you're behind her. She backs up much faster than most of the characters can move, though, so when she does, it's usually best to stay away.
* On later laps, a good way to grind levels is to, during Charlotte's first form, ignore her and just attack her minions.

===H.N. Elly (Kirsten)===

Kirsten boss fight

The setting of this boss fight is different from usual. There's no ground, only six floating TV's, the bottom four of which you can use as platforms. Falling off a platform just causes you to fall through and then appear above where you fell. If you fall off the sides, you'll land on the side platforms. If you you fall through the middle, you will probably drift towards one of the lower platforms. You can fall indefinitely, and steer yourself using the left and right arrows. Kirsten takes the form of four TV's which constantly rotate in a circle at the center of the stage. The main body, and the only place she can be harmed, is the TV containing the blue silhouette. Green blood spurts out of the TV to show that you're doing damage. The other TV's will contain one of three different images that have different effects:
* Lightning - periodically shoots lightning outwards.
* Minion - periodically spawns small minions.
* Exclamation point - if this TV is hit, three electrical orbs will fly out.
Every so often, Kirsten and all the TV's will whirl around in place for a short time during which she's invulnerable. After, they will resume rotating with some changes:
* Kirsten's position amongst the TV's may change at random.
* The images on the other TV's may change at random.
* The direction that TV's rotate may change at random.
* The speed at which the TV's rotate may change at random.
* The TV's may change to rotate in a circle with a small diameter (all of Kirsten's TV's touching), a large diameter (the TV's can reach the platforms), or a medium diameter (half way between) at random.
This fight is mostly made difficult by the spawning of enemies that will interrupt you while you try to attack Kirsten. Don't expend too much effort trying to take them out before attacking Kirsten, however, because it's likely that more will spawn before you get a chance to attack her if you pay too much attention to them. Unlike enemies throughout the stage, though, enemies that spawn from the TV's can be killed with one attack, be it weak or strong, so if you are close to an enemy you can take it out quickly before continuing your assault.

===Elsa Maria===

Elsa Maria boss fight

Elsa Maria is a grounded, generally stationary boss. She will only move after each attack where she will idle for a time before disappearing and reappearing again somewhere at random. Small and medium sized enemies of every kind from this stage will spawn at random indefinitely. She will alternate between these attacks at random:
* Hands extend out of her body and home in on you in a straight line.
* Hands extend straight out of her body at random angles and then turn once to home in on you.
* Note for the above two hand attacks, at low health she will do another volley of hands after the first.
* Hands extend straight out of her body radially like spokes of a wheel.
* Note that for all the hand attacks, only the hand can hit you, not the arm, so that's the only part you have to dodge.
* A large tree extends out of the back of her head and covers that entire side of the screen. This move is extremely powerful and hits many times. If you get hit by it, it will one hit KO you. An easy way to dodge this move is to pay attention to Elsa Maria's form when she appears. If it's any other attack, her body with morph into a blob like shape before attacking, But if it's this attack, her body will not change; the tree will just start extending out. This move also has fairly long start-up time, so it's not hard to get out of the way if you see it coming.
Taking her OHKO move into account, it's safest to attack Elsa Maria from behind at all times. Her other attacks are best to deal with at a distance. The homing hands you can avoid by staying in place and running and jumping away as they approach. The straight homing hands are best dealt with by moving vertically, while the angled ones by moving horizontally. The radial hands you need to look for an opening between the hands. And the tree you can avoid completely simply by being behind it. She will never appear so close to the edge of the screen that you can't avoid it.

===Oktavia von Seckendorff===

You obtain this boss fight after Sayaka dies at any time. There are no enemies present on this stage except Oktavia.

Oktavia boss fight

This is the only boss fight where enemies don't spawn. Oktavia will slide back and forth across the stage. She will alternate between these attacks:
* Summon four wheels that bounce across the screen from behind her. This occurs when Oktavia turns sideways, leans back, and raises both her arms high. These wheels are destructible, and hitting them delays their descent.
* Summon many wheels in the sky that, after a short time, fall straight down and then, after a short time, roll off to the sides. This occurs when Oktavia raises only her sword arm. These wheels are destructible, but cannot be hit while they're in the air. Hitting them on the ground will stall their forward rolling.
* Dash very quickly around the stage. She doesn't attack during this, nor is she invulnerable.
* Big sword slash that causes a large shockwave along the ground that goes in both directions from the impact of the sword. The sword slash can hit you. Both the slash and the shockwave do tremendous damage and will one hit KO you. The shockwave, though, only hits near the ground, so you can jump or stall in the air to avoid it. Try to be behind her or far from her when she does this move to avoid getting hit by the slash. An indicator that she's about to use this move is if he raises her sword arm and slides back and forth quickly.
* Retreat to the background where she is invulnerable and summon wheels to fall straight down randomly from the sky. The wheels will disappear after hitting the ground once. After many wheels fall, she will return to the foreground.
A good way to dodge the bouncing 4 wheels is to try and keep your distance and then run to stand under the wheels' bounce. The wheels bounce very high, so it's not a good idea to try and jump or stall in the air over them. On the other hand, a good way to dodge the second wheel attack is to get out of the way of where they will fall while they're spawning in the air, and then jump or stall in the air over them as they roll off to the sides. If you want to go about destroying the wheels during the second wheel attack, keep in mind that, as mentioned before, the wheels during this attack can't be hit in the air, only on the ground. The last wheel attack where she's invulnerable can be dealt with by simply running back and forth to dodge. You can also try destroying the wheels with upward aimed attacks since they can be destroyed in one hit by any attack. Kyouko's super has very good application here. Any wheel will be destroyed if it touches her barrier. One or two uses is enough to be safe for the entire duration of this move.

===Walpurgisnacht===

Walpurgisnacht boss fight

* This is another boss fight where there are platforms instead of solid ground. Unlike Kirsten's fight, though, if you fall here you die. Again, enemies spawn indefinitely. Walpurgisnacht has 2 main phases of attack.
* In her first phases she will float about the stage in random directions and let her minions attack you. Periodically a group of six blue orbs will appear in a hexagon formation randomly around the stage and fire blue lasers out radially. The lasers are the same as the ones her minions fire and will first shoot a thin beam showing the direction they will shoot before actually shooting, so you have some time to dodge.
* After some time, Walpurgisnacht will enter her second phase. During this phase she retreats to the background and she is completely invulnerable. If you have not destroyed her enemies they will remain. However, during this phase they will not re-spawn once killed. To start this phase, debris will fly up and then fall from the sky, rotating as they fall. The debris cannot be destroyed so you must dodge. Each piece does large damage. After the debris finishes falling, Walpurgisnacht will shoot fire from her mouth that covers large portions of the stage as it arcs about. Keep in mind, though, that it can only hit you when it passes through the foreground. This fire is extremely powerful and will one hit KO you, so do your best to avoid it. A good strategy is to wait at the top platform in the center of the stage so you can watch the fire and see which direction it will move in so you can effectively dodge. After the fire attack finishes, Walpurgisnacht will return to the foreground and resume her first phase. At low health, after the fire attack, she will drop an enormous building from the sky centered where you are. You will know when it's starting when the screen shakes. This move is also a one hit KO, but it's not too hard to outrun. Also, Sayaka can super dash away, while Homura can stop time.
* Walpurgisnacht is enormous, so it's extremely easy to hit her. Using Madoka's super attack can result in all of the arrows hitting for enormous damage. At lap 100+ this is by far the easiest way to dispatch the boss. Simply get Madoka to level 99 and let the arrows rain. No more than 10 specials will finish off the boss with little to no effort. The challenge is the journey there.

==Trophies==

*Silver Trophy: Clear game once
*Silver Trophy: Clear the game without any downs (Deaths?)
*Obtain all endings
*Silver Trophy: Use everyone a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Madoka a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Homura a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Mami a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Sayaka a total of 100 times
*Silver Trophy: Use Kyouko a total of 100 times
*Gold Trophy: Use everyone 100 times each
*Silver Trophy: Defeat 1000 familiars
*Gold Trophy: Defeat 10000 familiars
*Silver Trophy: Defeat 100 witches
*Gold Trophy: Defeat 1000 witches
*Silver Trophy: Reach level 30
*Gold Trophy: Reach level 99
*Silver Trophy: Use magic ability 100 times
*Gold Trophy: Use magic ability 1000 times
*Silver Trophy: 100 hit combo
*Gold Trophy: 500 hit combo

==Endings==

The game has multiple endings depending on which characters in your party are alive at the end of the game. Getting all of the endings is a of requirements of one of the trophies. Currently identified ones and their conditions are as follows:

Ending 1:
All of your party members survive.

Ending 2:
Only Madoka and Homura survive.

Ending 3:
Only Sayaka and Kyouko survive.

Ending 4:
Only Mami survives.

Ending 5:
Only Madoka and Sayaka die.

Ending 6:
Only Sayaka dies.

Ending 7:
Only Mami dies.

Ending 8:
Only Kyouko dies.

Ending 9:
Only Madoka dies.

Ending 10:
Default ending when one of the other endings doesn't occur. Example ways to get this ending:
*Only Homura dies.
*Only Sayaka and Kyouko die.
*Only Madoka and Mami survive.
*Only Madoka and Sayaka survive.
*Only Homura survives.
*Only Kyouko survives.
*Only Sayaka survives.
*Only Madoka survives.

==System Requirements==

*OS: Windows 7, Vista, or XP
*CPU: 2GHz or higher
*RAM: 1GB
*Hard drive space: 1GB
*Graphics: DirectX9.0c compatible with 256MB VRAM
*Display: 800x600 resolution
*Input Device: Game pad recommended, keyboard supported

[[Threads#Grief_Syndrome | Threads discussing Grief Syndrome]]

== Gallery ==
Illustrated by [http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=13134 Asato Mizu]
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center">
File:Griefsyndrome cover.jpg|Cover
File:Grief Syndrome 13.jpg|Stage Select screen
File:GS_Select_Screen.jpg|Character Select screen
File:Grief Syndrome 01.jpg|Everyone survives
File:Grief Syndrome 03.jpg|Only Homura and Madoka survive
File:Grief Syndrome 04.jpg|Only Kyoko and Sayaka survive
File:Grief Syndrome 08.jpg|Only Mami lives
File:Grief Syndrome 15.jpg|Only Madoka and Sayaka die
File:Grief Syndrome 05.jpg|Only Sayaka dies
File:Grief Syndrome 06.jpg|Only Mami dies
File:Grief Syndrome 09.jpg|Only Kyoko dies
File:Grief Syndrome 10.jpg|Only Madoka dies
File:Grief Syndrome 07.jpg|Homura in hospital, conditions variable
</gallery>

==External links==
*[http://www.tasofro.net Twilight Frontier website]
*[http://www.tasofro.net/mdk/ Grief Syndrome website]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqblxdzpAho Trailer video]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasofro About Tasofro]

[[Category:Fangames]]

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-08-21T10:08:07Z

Magic9mushroom:

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-08-21T10:05:01Z

Magic9mushroom:

Community talk:Grief Syndrome

2011-08-20T10:22:50Z

Magic9mushroom:

Talk:Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-07-30T09:35:18Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Speculated numbers on timelines */

== Killing Kyubey ==
Whoever said that is overthinking this. Homura only killed Kyubey ''twice'' in the fifth timeline as stated. The March 18th event ''only'' happened in the fourth timeline, and we can infer Homura did something ''else'' in the fifth timeline, maybe by distracting Kyubey or Mami somehow. Would you mind if I edit this to add in other timelines? -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:06, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
:Have fun editing, I'm going to be busy looking for moon pictures.

Whichever anon is doing the majority of the editing for this, I believe you've got quite some time missing in the middle of timeline 5 there. A full moon is shown at the beginning of episode 7, right after the reveal that the magical girls are actually their soul gems in episode 6. This implies that it occurs on April 16th or 17th, not as late as the 24th. I don't think Shaft would mess this up- they're making a point to get it accurate.
The day after that (around April 18th), Kyousuke returns to school, and Hitomi gives her ultimatum. That night is the Elsa Maria fight. Later the same night, Sayaka runs away in the rain, and Homura talks to Kyouko about Walpurgis Night. I think a time skip follows that, based on the moon.[[User:AzureThunder|AzureThunder]] 23:17, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
:I've been trying to figure out what's going on with that. After Homura and Kyouko have the talk in homu home, we see Hitomi hit on Kyousuke. Then Madoka goes to Sayaka's home and learns she didn't come back last night, and runs off to look for her. That's the day after the full moon. Next is the Sayaka vs Homura confrontation, which has a crescent moon. So if there's a time skip, it happens around 9:40 ep 8. Then we see Madoka in the park running around searching for Sayaka, so the skip went by with Madoka still running around, no indication of Sayaka contacting her or her parents, or any police search, and the transition looks as if she went off fighting the same night as a reaction to seeing the couple.
This page needs some major edits now that the last two episodes have revealed that our timeline isn't timeline 5. Looks like the subtle differences between episode 1 and the end of 10 weren't just for show. It's still hard to tell a lot of things though.

== E11 ==

The funeral narration states that Sayaka went missing on the 12th, but Sayaka was seen by several people after this, and when Madoka visited her parents the apparent last-seen date was the 20th. Either the 12th is a mistranslation, it refers to when she started cutting school rather than when she was last seen, or the timeline is wrong. The moon on the 12th was a half moon, but there was a full moon when Sayaka returned to her house after the bridge scene.
:The audio clearly says 12日 (''juu-ni nichi''), so it is not a translation error. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 08:29, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
:Because it's been officially stated that Sayaka went missing on the 12th, all the events that took place before she went missing from home and school (the night she killed Elsa Maria) have to be redated to before the 12th. I know quite a bit of effort was put into indentifying the dates from the moon phases, but the spoken statement ought to take precedence.--[[Special:Contributions/60.53.91.70|60.53.91.70]] 08:29, 4 July 2011 (UTC) anon
::Yeah, this is a problem. And pushing it back makes Homura's comment to Kyouko about Walpurgis coming in two weeks fall about three weeks before it. I'll have to get the BD versions and see if they fixed anything, although the chances of that are low. [[User:KM|KM]] 17:09, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

A band-aid reason for calling timeline 5 timeline 5 has been added to avoid the confusion of making timeline nomenclature different than what has been used in all the speculah and analysis so far.

== Clocks ==

E12: When Madoka meets Mami and Kyouko after making her wish, the clock reads exactly midnight.

== Numbering Additional Timelines ==

Proposed standard for numbering timelines other than the ones listed:
ISO PWI ????:2011 Numbering Additional Timelines

Integers will be used for timelines 1 through 5 as numbered in the [[:Image:Ep10_timeline_chart.jpg | chart of timelines]], and timeline 6, which is the new universe timeline in which Homura meets Madoka's family.

Other timelines will use decimals, similar to software version numbers. They will be numbered in chronological order when possible. If chronological order does not make sense, they will be numbered in the order in which Homura perceives them. If the order is not known, a letter may be used until enough evidence is available.

Example:

Timeline 4: As seen in ep 10, Homura wakes up, fixes her eyes and hair, kills witches, and attempts to defeat Walpurgis alone.

Timeline 4.1: As seen at the end of ep 10, Homura shoots Kyubey and encounters Madoka.

Timeline 4.1.1: An example-only timeline that occurs between 4.1 and 4.2, but was only discovered after 4.2 had already been named.

Timeline 4.2: An example-only timeline that occurs after 4.1, but before 5.

Timeline 4.x: The timeline the Oriko manga takes place in, which happens after Homura changes her hair, but before Madoka eliminates witches in timeline 5. (Note: There has been speculation that this timeline is part of a separate story continuity, and may not fit in with the anime timelines.)

Timeline 5: The main timeline most of the anime takes place in.

:I'll ask the obvious question...what is the reason we need this kind of detailed numbering system? Has there really been confusion about what occurs in sequence within a given timeline from an anime, or has the confusion centered more around what event is coming from which source? What I think would be helpful is adding new charts. For instance, one for BD/DVD additions like the Drama CD from Vol. 1 that add more detail to the timelines. But it should be a separate chart so someone who has only watched the anime doesn't get confused about all the things they supposedly "missed." You can also expand the original anime timeline chart to include notations of where chronologically additions from the BD/DVD extras occurred to place the timing, but have all the details in its own chart. Needs it anyways, based on the level of detail we're seeing. Same for Oriko, a separate one for its own timeline, with a notation of when approximately we think it occurred in the original timeline chart. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 14:54, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

::There's been confusion about which events happen in which timelines, whether things like the end of ep 10 are separate timelines, which timelines the "countless repetitions" fall between, and why timeline 5 isn't the 5th timeline Homura experienced. The detail makes sure don't have to keep changing the system if new spinoffs or flashbacks add more timelines. Even if no new canon material comes out, it might help fan fiction make more sense. The chart idea would be great. The current one is pretty old, and more charts like that would make this stuff easier to understand. [[User:KM|KM]] 15:15, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

:::Yeah, the problem you're describing stems more from speculah about there being more timelines than we see in episode 10 and general confusion about time travel altogether. Part of it is a translation issue. Both gg and Nutbladder referred to Homura traveling "countless" timelines in episode 11, strongly implying more. Yesy provided a more correct translation of "many" which leaves the door more open to either interpretation. Either way you look at it, we don't have any evidence to be able to number the timelines anything other than what we have now, TL1-5 and maybe TL6 if you refer to Madoka's new universe at that, though you could argue it's TL1 in a brand new universe, since she remade everything so TL1-5 never existed. The sub-numbering seems like an onerous task, and I'm not sure how much users are going to adopt it, but I'm not one to stop someone from being more organized. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 17:02, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

==Speculated numbers on timelines==

We should probably put at least some guesses in. The only two guesses I can make are that the main timeline is timeline 12 (there are 11 pictures in the OP's bit about the lost future) and that it's timeline 15 (there are 14 strings of fate attached to Madoka during Kyubey's lecture to Homura). Of these, I think the latter's likely to be correct, since the OP scene cuts away without revealing whether there could have been more. Anyone got any others? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 09:40, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
:OP pic only shows 5 timelines. Oriko makes 6 if we consider it canon and that's all we know for sure. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
::I was talking about the bit where Madoka and Kyubey are sitting in the foreground while a slideshow of magical girl Madoka is playing in the background. There are 11 slides there. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 23:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Link the pic? I don't see it on this page or discussion page.
:I suspect it's a much larger number and the scene was done that way for artistic reasons, but the strings of fate thing is still a very interesting observation. [[User:KM|KM]] 18:27, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
::You suspect there are more than 16 timelines? Any particular reason? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 23:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
:::I disagree with KM. I would bet on a number closer to what Shroom guessed. I mean... I've seen it around, people who think Homura spend decades, centuries, hell, even millenia trying to save Madoka. 13 timelines, one moth a timeline, equates to a year and a month. I think that, given Homura's experience (plently, but still not enough to predict everything), and her mild changes in personality (she is still the same, after all, beneath the layers of coldness and distance: someone trapped for much longer would have had their true personality marred and slashed), it's a very reasonable number. A much higher number... 100 timelines would be more than eight years, a thousand would be eighty three! Honestly, I think it's way too farfetched, not even Chuck Norris would have been to keep it's sanity, despite all the dovey love for Madoka and all. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 00:01, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
::I'd say it's closer to 1 1/2 months per timeline, assuming Walpurgis Night is actually May 1st. There's also the fact that Madoka's power scales extremely fast with timelines (in timeline 1 she was of similar power to Mami and died fighting Walpurgis Night even with help, while in 4 she one-shotted it), so assuming some form of exponential scaling Madoka would end up at "universe-scale power" in the mid-teens (the maths I used: a witch can normally affect an area maybe 100m in diameter, but timeline 4 Kriemhild Gretchen was capable of affecting the whole Earth (10,000 km), giving a 100,000x boost in power for 3 timelines. Hence, after 15 timelines Madoka would be able to affect an area approximately 10^27 metres across, which compares quite well with the 8.8*10^26 m size of the observable universe). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 01:27, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
:::On speculah: I would caution everyone on speculating too much on little details. Remember Gen Urobuchi on the ending only had it as "Homura fighting outside of Japan," but with all the anime production effects, people speculated elaborate scenarios that just were not what he envisioned when he wrote the ending. I believe this is likely the case with people making up numbers of cycles without any real basis for it except "it's more than shown." This is probably true but determining a number on the evidence I've seen is impossible. It is literally picking a number out of the hat. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 03:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

:::With her statistics, being practiced enough at acting to come off as naturally cool and stylish to everyone despite having been THAT awkward in the beginning, the way Homura has all the math memorized perfectly despite homework being the least of her problems, the elaborate setup against Walpurgis (which surely didn't work on the first try, and requires gathering a lot of gear that would be tricky to steal), and the way she's treating Madoka, 16 seems low. I'd guess more like the 40-80 range. But there's nothing concrete and 16 is plausible speculation. If it still isn't added by then, I'll make a speculation section with both when I revise the page after watching the new BD.

:::As for the scaling, how do we know whether range scales linearly with power level? Also, TL1 Madoka+Mami appeared to reach a double kill (no sign of Walpurgis, Homu and Kyubey were safe running around the battlefield, and it visually looked like the dead Walpurgis scenarios and not like the live Walpurgis ones), but TL3 Madoka+Homu did only slightly better. If Madoka's power had been cubed, she should've performed better than that. So my guess is she's scaling linearly, two timelines equals double Madoka, and in TL4 either used the wish to power up or crossed a threshold. Suppose quadruple Madoka has just enough raw power to simply brute force it, but triple Madoka would have to take risks and wear Walpurgis down the hard way.
:::: If power scales linearly (Madoka's power after X timelines = X * Madoka's power after 1 timeline) then there would have to have been trillions of repetitions to bring her power up to universe-ending levels from planet-ending levels (Earth is tiny compared to the solar system, let alone the universe). I don't think Homura would be capable of surviving billions of years of Groundhog Day with her sanity intact. As for range/power scaling, if one assumes that power scales exponentially with number of timelines then any polynomial scaling of range with power will fall out as a constant term (as (e^x)^n = e^(x*n)).

:::: Of course, the Doylist explanation here is one of most writers not understanding the sheer magnitude of the difference in scale between a planet and the universe, but in terms of Watsonian explanations, I think my logic is pretty sound. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 09:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
:::For timelines we know about in the entire franchise, the second drama cd seems to be in a new, unknown timeline, so we've got that, the first 4, the one at the end of ep 10 that looks like episode 1 but had minor differences, the main one, and Oriko, for 8. [[User:KM|KM]] 05:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
::::I should mention there's some doubt among fans as to whether the second drama CD is canon (Madoka wouldn't be the first anime with a mix of canon and non-canon in the same extra materials). This is partly because a Hidamari Sketch writer did the script and partly because of some noted discrepancies. Two that I can think of is Kyubey referring to the girls as "Maho Shojo Tai" which he never does in the anime. The other is Kyubey being treated like a pet, e.g. told to get off the table, whereas in the anime he's treated as a peer, e.g. allowed to stay on the table as long as he wishes. That said, I'm inclined to agree that there are more timelines but trying to identify how many exactly or even ballpark is really just guessing. From what I've seen of Gen Urubochi's style in interviews, I tend to think he doesn't have an exact number in his head (it's exactly 37 times, guys!) but more like he leaves the number option open to allow for the writing of side-stories. He may have a lower and upper limit in his mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a wide range between the two. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 07:14, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
:::::Me neither. I just have a really hard time believing Homura spent more than, say, five years (40 timlines, thanks Shroom for correcting me on the time per timeline) trapped in that cycle. After seeing the comments here, I see that's obviously not the case, but I though that most people who believed in ridiculously high numbers did so because of her statement that she watched people (well, Mami) die "countless" times. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
:::: There is another thing that points to a relatively small number - the main anime timeline is the first time Kyubey explains to Homura how she's making Madoka more powerful. Kyubey's rather smart, so a large number of timelines before he figures it out would seem to strain belief (despite his lack of retaining memory, there's the whole monkeys-on-typewriters issue). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 09:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-07-29T01:27:54Z

Magic9mushroom:

User:Magic9mushroom

2011-07-29T00:44:38Z

Magic9mushroom:

Not a huge fan of anime, but I watch a bit of it.

I prefer the abbreviations "m9m", "'shroom" or "shroomy" to "Magic".

Also, I'm a uni student majoring in Chemistry and Pure Mathematics.

User:Magic9mushroom

2011-07-29T00:20:45Z

Magic9mushroom: Created page with "Not a huge fan of anime, but I watch a bit of it. I prefer the abbreviations "m9m", "'shroom" or "shroomy" to "Magic"."

Not a huge fan of anime, but I watch a bit of it.

I prefer the abbreviations "m9m", "'shroom" or "shroomy" to "Magic".

Talk:Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-07-28T23:45:27Z

Magic9mushroom:

Talk:Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-07-28T09:43:42Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Speculated numbers on timelines */ oops

Talk:Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-07-28T09:40:54Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Speculated numbers on timelines */

Talk:Madoka Magica Timeline

2011-07-28T09:35:42Z

Magic9mushroom: Guesses, dunno if they've been made before but I haven't seen them.

Community talk:Population dynamics

2011-07-25T00:18:38Z

Magic9mushroom:

<div style="border:1px solid #c0c090;padding:10px;background:#FDFFEE;margin:-0.4em 0 0.6em;">'''Previous discussions are archived at''':
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Analysis]] (refined model analysis)
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Archive 1]] (old discussions, up to Apr. 17th)
</div>

==Japanese translations==

Since quite a lot of our japanese colleagues seem to want a translation, here's what I found so far:
*[http://joeshishimaru.jugem.jp/?eid=2375]
*[http://nmori.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-446.html]
(comes directly from random tweets).<br>Hope it helps --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

==Simulations and graphs==
I feel that you should add the assumed numbers right above the graphs, because those will affect greatly how the graphs turn out, and I think that putting the numbers up front will enable readers to agree with your starting numbers first.[[Special:Contributions/220.255.2.142|220.255.2.142]] 13:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the advice, adding it right now. Also, note that they are in the image's description field. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering, what are those numbers that appeared below the constants in the simulation tables? (<math>\textstyle{ {C \over {B+D} } }</math>, <math>\textstyle{C \left( {{B-K} \over {B+D}} \right)}</math>, ...). Maybe we should put somewhere what they represent, because as-is they're not really relevant ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

==Twitter and IRC corrections==
Along with the other tweets, I found this one that seemed interresting, but I'm not sure I understand it. Basically, they're saying the refined model only works when F+B+1-K>0?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=aibery|id=49153350415028224|japanese=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。|english=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}

It might be nice to investigate it a little, or explain why it is the case if you know... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

:It is a stumbling block I located as well.
:In the case when M(t) > W(t), ΔW=(F+B-K)W, that is, change in witch population depends solely on the current population, modified by the constant (F+B-K). If F+B-K is negative, then ΔW is negative, and the population spirals downwards to zero, and M becomes a linear function Ct. The population dynamics breaks down. The only way to avoid this is if F+B-K is nonegative, but I am not certain how we can justify it, unless we call Kyuubey as a rational agent again. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::Actually, it's just a logical consequence of our model. If we change the hypotheses so that soul gems dim over time, we should fall back to a working model. I wouldn't do it though, since there has been no proof of that in canon, and it means setting a model to show us what we want to show, instead of solving the inconsistency at its source. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:::It's a interesting thought, with the refined modeled, the witch population either is always increasing or always decreasing, as long as it is smaller than the magical girls population. If we also include dimming, both populations has the additional potential to simulatenously stabilized, but also with the caveat that the witch population is less than the magical girls population. This implies that unlike the simple model, both refinements have significant dependence on actual variable values. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 14:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Another tweet I found but I don't understand. Basically, if I got it right, this person asked their professor to look into it and they have some ideas of corrections to make?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=goodhuntstalker|id=50571505112846336|japanese=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ|english=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Interresting remark from the IRC: when a witch is killed, do her familiars disappear as well? (at least the ones that didn't achieve maturation). And the subsequent question: is it taken into account in our models? I'd say "yes" to both questions since <math>\Delta W = F * W(t) + ... </math>, but I'm not sure so external opinions would be welcome. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:There's no clean cut answer since we don't actually model the familiar population. I suppose the best interpretation is that since F*W(t) is dependent on witch numbers, all familiars die when their witch was killed. What if this isn't true? How can we adjust the model to account for this? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Damn my poor skills at japanese. Isn't this tweet saying something interresting? If anybody could translate it, or at least tell us if it says anything new ...

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59241793056813056|english=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい|japanese=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:According to my Rikaichan skills, it says: ''This is great. Well done LOL, but I dare to say, the state change diagram seems wrong. Because witches are not turning back into magical girls upon death, the K state change should not link dead with M(t). The equations are correct.'' --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 19:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There's another tweet by the same author, with my <s>trans</s>guesslation attempt:
{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59246142113841153|english=If we put this analysis into practical use, at a given time ''t'', total amount of extracted energy equals an integral over that time t of: population of magical girls * probability of turning into a witch * amount of energy Kyubey extracts in a unit of time. In short, E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dt. It looks like a great source of energy, compared to a nuclear power plant.|japanese=この解析を応用すれば、時間ｔでの魔法少女の個体数×魔女への状態遷移確率×エネルギー抽出量でＱＢが時間当たりに抽出するエネルギー量、さらにそれを時間ｔで積分すれば、エネルギーの総抽出量が計算できるね。つまり、E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dtだな。原発よりいいエネルギー源になりそうｗ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
This time nothing interesting here. But translated just in case someone wonders what's there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 00:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, this can be done. Oh God! You're John Nash, right? I've been studying your equilibrium. To come up with something totally original the way you did... I've been developing a theory. I believe I can show that Galois extensions are covering spaces. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
::One of these days we're gonna discover the Theory of Everything if we go on like that ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yet another tweet that seems interresting, but to make it worse than usual I don't even have access to the jisho.org plugin, so I had to go with lolgoogle translate. Anyway, hopefully someone will understand what it says:

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=nekosan|id=65036264247795712|english=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん|japanese=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== Thoughts for exploration ==
If you were willing to use a more complicated simulation, here are some thoughts.
* First, you could model the fights themselves. Each fight would end in either a Win, Draw, or Loss for the magical girl. With a loss, the magical girl dies, requardless if the other combatant was a witch or a familiar. With a draw, the girl expends some energy, again reguardless of the opponent (and perhaps my be unable to fight for a couple of iterations). Winning is different though, as if the magical girl wins against a familiar, she still merely expends energy, while against a witch she's able to recharge. On the other hand, if a familiar has enough battles in its favor, it becomes a witch.
* Second, you can have the probabilities of each iteration feed back on themselves, with draws reducing the chances for future wins and wins increasing them.
* Third, you can make some assumptions about how long each girl has, from a bit a extrapolation. Something like each magical girl has 100 units of energy (life force) available when she makes the contract, and each fight uses up 10 units, and if she doesn't find an opponent, she uses up 1 unit. If a magical girl's enery runs out, she becomes a witch.
* Fourth, you can insert some randomness into each value to give some acknowledgement to the quirks of each fight. The only thing to determine is how likely it is for magical girls to fight witches and/or familiars in a given iteration. A simple way would be for a magical girl to have a 1% chance of finding a given witch or familiar, and check against all of them. You could assume that a magical girl could kill 1 enemy per iteration, or have that change with the number of victories she has.
* Fifth, you could stipulate that if a witch has a battle in its favor or doesn't fight a magical girl at all for that iteration, it generates a familiar.
* So, the change in population would be the net (summation) of all the fights between magical girls and familiars.
[[User:Kylone|Kylone]] 15:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:I think these changes will move this project beyond the realm of population modeling to life simulation. I think there's some interesting ideas here though: Is it proper for the modeling to assume that all MS and Witches have the same K, B, D, F rate, regardless of age? It's obvious from the show that [[Kyouko|veterans]] have higher survival rate than [[Sayaka|newbies]], and older [[Speculah:Walpurgis Night|witches]] are tougher than newer ones. It's possible to pseudo-account for this in modeling if we change the dependences not just on M[t] & W[t], but also on M[t-1] & W[t-1], how it will effect the outcome is not something I can possibly analyze by hand.
:: While we know that some witches are tougher than others, it doesn't necessarily correlate with age. For all we know, older witches get crazier and more self-absorbed and become less effective in combat. Oktavia von Seckendorff (Sayaka) seemed to be an unusually tough opponent (although her opponents in both episodes 9 and 10 probably weren't fighting their best), despite being only a day or two old and born from a young inexperienced magical girl. [[Special:Contributions/86.13.224.153|86.13.224.153]] 19:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Additionally, I'd like to point out an issue with the first point in the list. Familiars don't become Witches by winning fights, they "evolve" by eating a certain number of humans. I think the strength of a witch might also be partially dependent on the number of humans it has consumed, but also on a number of other factors, such as the strength of their curse (Sayaka), and the innate potential originally possessed by the magical girl(Madoka). Perhaps witches born from familiars are initially weaker than those born directly from magical girls, so their strength depends more on how many humans they've eaten than those whose grief seed came from a soul gem?[[User:Jorlem|Jorlem]] 20:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:However, I think all of us that edits this page have been quite burnt out at this point to try out these changes, so don't expect any work on this for quite some time. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, I like your approach. It's not really modeling (it's more like a live simulation as prima said), but it might be interresting to try, just out of curiosity. The main concern of your approach is that it relies on a lot of variables we have to extrapolate/think up. It's gonna be hard to find realistic values that give an interpretable result (just see the problems we already have with the time-based model ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that I have access to the "real" Matlab (not FreeMat) and Simulink, I'll try to make a more detailed analysis of the last model which we expected to be chaotic ... As soon as I find out how to use the min() function in Simulink's differential equations editor --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== F, C, D/B are dynamic; Witches can be revived as necessary ==

* Familiar-to-witch conversion rate decreases as the number of witches relative to the number of humans increases due to competition for "food"/saturation in a city being reached.
* QB's recruitment rate is obviously situation-dependent as he'll only recruit as many magical girls as he needs. If there are many witches around he may recruit more. If there are few around he might recruit extremely instable girls who will turn into witches soon. And he will also try to keep the number of magical girls low to avoid an entire army of MGs marching around, that would get too much attention
* If there are plenty of witches around then MGs can also hunt for the weakest ones first to gather soulpower, thus decreasing their conversion rate (decreases B) and avoiding deaths (decreases D)

The system is not instable at all, it's self-regulating. If there are too many MG's QB can just stop recruiting and wait until they turn one way or another. He can also release one of his stored grief seeds and resurrect a witch by saturating the seed with additional grief. See episode 3.
If there are too many witches their self-replication via F gets decreases since they are competing for food, humans. --[[Special:Contributions/91.16.15.53|91.16.15.53]] 06:54, 28 March 2011 (BST)

== Zombies ==

Just realized that this could be slightly modified for zombies. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 04:34, 29 March 2011 (BST)
:Also vampires. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 08:30, 30 March 2011 (BST)
:You might be interested in this study on zombie population modeling: http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
::I also thought about zombie population modeling given the similarities between both models. I've been a little lazy lately (and busy with real-life stuff too) so I didn't take the time to go and look for the articles on the subject, but it was on my todo-list ... Maybe I'll try and adapt it one of these days if I find the time and motivation, just in case we get different results from what is already on the page. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

== Reaction Kinetics ==

* The speed of a reaction depends on the concentration of the reactants. Assuming that the distribution of both magical girls and witches are uniform, I think <math> - K \times M(t) \times W(t) </math> is a better model for the death of witches than either the simple model (<math> - K \times M(t) </math>) or the refined model (<math> - K \times \mathrm{Min}(W(t), M(t))</math>.) --[[Special:Contributions/24.23.181.131|24.23.181.131]] 01:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Amaki
::Gotta read up on rate equations, but I do think this is a valid refinement to the models. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

==Full pop dynamics model==

I came up with a model which I believe better predicts the actions of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, Witches, and Kyubey.

The model:

M(t+1) = M(t) + C + I*W(t) - B*M(t) - K*M(t)*W(t)

W(t+1) = W(t) + B*M(t) + F*(W(t)-H*M(t)) - S*M(t)*W(t)

Variables:

M(t) = number of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls alive at time t.

W(t) = number of Witches alive at time t.

Parameters:

C = number of girls who contract with Kyubey in a given area and time, as a base (this is needed to lift the populations from 0).

I = increment to number of girls who contract based on number of Witches (as encounters with witches are usually how he gets his claws in)

B = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls mature into Witches (largely independent of number of Witches, since the magic expended fighting them is regained by use of Grief Seeds)

K = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls are killed by Witches (only other Magical Girls and Witches have a hope of killing one thanks to their effective lichdom, and generally they avoid fighting each other - if you wanted you could add an additional quadratic term in M(t) to represent territorial rivalry)

F = rate at which Witches propagate due to familiars without the intervention of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls.

H = average heroism of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, expressed as the number of witches they can suppress familiar reproduction from. It's called heroism because only "heroic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Sayaka and Mami engage in this, whereas "pragmatic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Homura (kinda) and Kyouko do not.

S = rate at which witches are slain by Puellae Magi/Magical Girls. (as normal humans generally are unable to kill them)

Of note, with many sensible choices of parameters this model has stable solutions with more Witches than Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, as is apparently the case in the show.

Note that to scale this model up or down, one must modify the quadratic parameters K and S, as they are a result of density rather than absolute number. For each doubling of C (the only constant parameter), they must be halved.

[[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

----

:Rather fried at the moment, any chance you can run some simulations to get an idea how this model changes the population dynamics? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

::I ran it through Excel a bunch of times before putting it up. There are some sets of parameters that result in quickly-attained (within 20 iterations) stable solutions that persist indefinitely. There are others for which everything generally goes nuts (the quadratic terms can result in more witches being killed than there are witches to kill, or more magical girls dying than there are magical girls to die) but these are an artifact of running the simulation discretely AFAIK. Familiar reproduction can result in apocalypse for sufficiently large F and sufficiently small H, but will be contained by I kicking in (though, again, there are issues with running this discretely). The important parts for the stability of the solution are the quadratic terms and the existence of I to curb apocalypse - H is only provided for completeness and accuracy. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 11:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
:::We'll need matlab for this one. I can try to work out some results on paper, but that'll be several days from now. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:40, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
::::I have tried some model like this very much. Given that there be many familiars per witch and very low rate for them to become witches(so that number of witches won't grow exponentially), the factor H is really neglectable. Even every magical girl kills familiars like Sayaka, the number of witches won't significant decrease than nobody does that. Sayaka, you are really such a fool. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 06:19, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
:Well, like I said, H is included for completeness. It does affect the steady state, though, decreasing the amount of witches and increasing the amount of magical girls.
::''H'' does affect the equilibrium, but it won't change the qualitative outcome AFAIK. If a set of values leads to a dominance of witches, then <math>W(t) > M(t)_{t \rightarrow \infty}</math> no matter what the value for ''H'' is (as long as it's lower than 1 of course).<br>Also, could you give me the values you used and that gave a chaotic outcome? It may be related to my change with the ''C'' factor (see below), but I always get an equilibrium... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 12:29, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Ok, now I found whether H is important is depend on the contribution to # of witches from familiars. By carefully choosing the parameters, equilibrium can be ensured to prevent number of witches out of control. If most witches came from familiar (higher F value and lower B value), then killing familiars does help reducing number of witches. But I don't see many witches came from familiars in the anime. One of my results as an example may be viewed at [https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=zh_TW&hl=zh_TW&key=0AkA8SnM-_mEpdFZLYkEwYTNrVmF1MG9RQ2s2UjF6dmc&single=true&gid=1&output=html here.] The 4th and 5th columns are values with H=100%, while 6th and 7th columns are values with H=0%. More heroic MGs can help reduce witches and number of killed MGs, but also means more MGs become witches, so the outcome is still not much difference. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:19, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: If F is near the critical value to cause runaway, then obviously H is relevant, as a tiny change can cause huge differences in the result. Also, there is a constant threat of witches in Mitakihara (sp?) City, but only one MG is seen to turn over the course of the show, so the implication is that most witches do indeed come from familiars (the argument is that every single magical girl seen killed many witches, but a MG can produce a grand total of one witch via direct transformation, so most of those witches have to come from familiars assuming a steady state). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

----

Now that I have a chance to sit down and look at this model, I think it's extremely sound in logic and should in some way be placed on [[population dynamics]] as the primary model. I still doesn't have a chance to analyze its full implications yet, but I hope [[user:Homerun-chan]] will run some matlab on this.
:Did someone say "Matlab"? Cuz I think I herd someone say "Matlab"...<br>Anyway, I'm back home, so I'll make a script off it when I get the time (which will be a bit tricky since I'm working fulltime starting on Monday... Either I'll hijack one of their computer or do it on my free time). I just got back like 3 minutes ago so I didn't carefully read the model yet, but more model refinements is always bound to be a good thing :) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:28, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

----

If we settle on this model, our next venue of research should be start proposing realistic numbers for the constants and variables. For example, we can dig through census datas and find the yearly rate of unidentified deaths and suicides, and infer certain numbers regarding witches from it. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
:Are you planning to infer the number of witches in the "real" world based on our models, instead of just analyzing qualitative data? Might be interesting, but also extremely tricky, as we have to guess and fine-tune most of the parameters in our equations --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:58, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: A bunch of the parameters can be estimated based on what we see in the show, for instance the K/S (D/K in your version) ratio based on the number of witches seen killed vs. the number of magical girls seen killed. With an established density of witches, the B/D ratio can also be established from the known proportions of magical girls that die vs. become witches. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
::: We could do that, but that means implying values from a sample of 5 MSes and roughly 14 witches. I know this is the only data we have (excluding the manga spin-offs), but statistically speaking, that is a bit too few... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:54, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

----

I think there's something odd with your model Magic9mushroom. Because of the ''I'' and ''C'' parameters, at each iteration, the number of MSes being contracted depends both on the number of witches, and on a constant term. In other words, that would mean Kyubey "randomly" chooses ''C'' girls, and also contracts ''I'' girls that were in contact with witches. I don't remember any canon element that would allow us to validate or debunk this assumption, but it seems more consistent to me that QBe only contracts girls that were approached by witches; so, I ran [[Matlab:New population model|a script]] with only the ''C'' parameter for now, I'll modify it if needed as the conversation goes on. (Note: I also renamed your K as D, and your S as K, since that's the names we used in the previous models) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 12:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
: Well, Mami's and Kyouko's backstories imply they had no contact with witches prior to becoming Magical Girls (well, it's possible that Mami's accident was caused by a witch's curse, but there isn't much indication either way), so I'd say that it is indeed validated by canon. Additionally, I is crucially important, since it increases magical girl production (and thus attrition) when there are too many witches, making the model more stable. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: Oh, also, looking at your results, I see that you've assumed 120 witches are killed in battle for every magical girl that is. Don't you think that's a bit much? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:34, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:::''K=0.12'' actually means that at each iteration, 12% of the total population of witches is killed by the whole population of MSes, if I'm not mistaken. That value may be wrong (as all the others, in fact), I chose it quite randomly based on previous models. Once again, it would help quite a lot if you could give me the values you used (those that gave a chaotic system in particular, but also one or two that led to an equilibrium), so that I can play with it a bit.<br>That is, before prima gives us realistic numbers based on US censuses and [http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12351748/%23madoka.jpg rainbow-colored suicide charts] --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 21:54, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:::: You are mistaken. K = 0.12 means that ''each'' magical girl kills 12% of the entire witch population at every iteration. Unless you're running the model over a tiny area this is probably too large. The cases I got of an apocalyptic cycle were ones with high F (0.6 or so); the witches kill off the magical girls and grow out of control, upon which Kyubey contracts enough magical girls to result in 100% death rates for both sides. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 00:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

== See also ==

Experimental results are being discussed [[Talk:Matlab:Gradual dimming population model|here]] --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

== After the Finale ==

In the finale, Madoka "changed the fundamental laws of nature" by "wishing to remove magic girls before they ever become witches." In terms of our models, the essential effect of this wish removes B*M(t) component from our differential equations. Are there any model that are capable of provide for an sustainable W(t) (for magical creatures) population even when B*M(t) are removed? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:Why do you want to model the population dynamics after the ending, i.e. when one of the populations disappeared? Basically, even if QBe continues generating MSes (but he'd have no reason to since they wouldn't become witches), no MS would become a witch anymore, so in the end W(t) stays at zero and M(t) grows linearly, that's all. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
::I suppose you're right. There's nothing in the witch population model that carries over for magical creatures. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Just rewatched episode 12 (in fact, I paid attention to it for the first time), so I should correct myself: apparently, there are still Magical Girls in the new world, and they are still fighting, but this time MSes and "magical beast" do not interact in any other way than fighting each other. That looks like a regular Lotka-Volterra system to me. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Population dynamics

2011-07-24T20:34:25Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Full pop dynamics model */

<div style="border:1px solid #c0c090;padding:10px;background:#FDFFEE;margin:-0.4em 0 0.6em;">'''Previous discussions are archived at''':
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Analysis]] (refined model analysis)
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Archive 1]] (old discussions, up to Apr. 17th)
</div>

==Japanese translations==

Since quite a lot of our japanese colleagues seem to want a translation, here's what I found so far:
*[http://joeshishimaru.jugem.jp/?eid=2375]
*[http://nmori.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-446.html]
(comes directly from random tweets).<br>Hope it helps --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

==Simulations and graphs==
I feel that you should add the assumed numbers right above the graphs, because those will affect greatly how the graphs turn out, and I think that putting the numbers up front will enable readers to agree with your starting numbers first.[[Special:Contributions/220.255.2.142|220.255.2.142]] 13:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the advice, adding it right now. Also, note that they are in the image's description field. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering, what are those numbers that appeared below the constants in the simulation tables? (<math>\textstyle{ {C \over {B+D} } }</math>, <math>\textstyle{C \left( {{B-K} \over {B+D}} \right)}</math>, ...). Maybe we should put somewhere what they represent, because as-is they're not really relevant ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

==Twitter and IRC corrections==
Along with the other tweets, I found this one that seemed interresting, but I'm not sure I understand it. Basically, they're saying the refined model only works when F+B+1-K>0?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=aibery|id=49153350415028224|japanese=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。|english=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}

It might be nice to investigate it a little, or explain why it is the case if you know... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

:It is a stumbling block I located as well.
:In the case when M(t) > W(t), ΔW=(F+B-K)W, that is, change in witch population depends solely on the current population, modified by the constant (F+B-K). If F+B-K is negative, then ΔW is negative, and the population spirals downwards to zero, and M becomes a linear function Ct. The population dynamics breaks down. The only way to avoid this is if F+B-K is nonegative, but I am not certain how we can justify it, unless we call Kyuubey as a rational agent again. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::Actually, it's just a logical consequence of our model. If we change the hypotheses so that soul gems dim over time, we should fall back to a working model. I wouldn't do it though, since there has been no proof of that in canon, and it means setting a model to show us what we want to show, instead of solving the inconsistency at its source. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:::It's a interesting thought, with the refined modeled, the witch population either is always increasing or always decreasing, as long as it is smaller than the magical girls population. If we also include dimming, both populations has the additional potential to simulatenously stabilized, but also with the caveat that the witch population is less than the magical girls population. This implies that unlike the simple model, both refinements have significant dependence on actual variable values. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 14:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Another tweet I found but I don't understand. Basically, if I got it right, this person asked their professor to look into it and they have some ideas of corrections to make?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=goodhuntstalker|id=50571505112846336|japanese=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ|english=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Interresting remark from the IRC: when a witch is killed, do her familiars disappear as well? (at least the ones that didn't achieve maturation). And the subsequent question: is it taken into account in our models? I'd say "yes" to both questions since <math>\Delta W = F * W(t) + ... </math>, but I'm not sure so external opinions would be welcome. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:There's no clean cut answer since we don't actually model the familiar population. I suppose the best interpretation is that since F*W(t) is dependent on witch numbers, all familiars die when their witch was killed. What if this isn't true? How can we adjust the model to account for this? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Damn my poor skills at japanese. Isn't this tweet saying something interresting? If anybody could translate it, or at least tell us if it says anything new ...

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59241793056813056|english=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい|japanese=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:According to my Rikaichan skills, it says: ''This is great. Well done LOL, but I dare to say, the state change diagram seems wrong. Because witches are not turning back into magical girls upon death, the K state change should not link dead with M(t). The equations are correct.'' --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 19:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There's another tweet by the same author, with my <s>trans</s>guesslation attempt:
{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59246142113841153|english=If we put this analysis into practical use, at a given time ''t'', total amount of extracted energy equals an integral over that time t of: population of magical girls * probability of turning into a witch * amount of energy Kyubey extracts in a unit of time. In short, E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dt. It looks like a great source of energy, compared to a nuclear power plant.|japanese=この解析を応用すれば、時間ｔでの魔法少女の個体数×魔女への状態遷移確率×エネルギー抽出量でＱＢが時間当たりに抽出するエネルギー量、さらにそれを時間ｔで積分すれば、エネルギーの総抽出量が計算できるね。つまり、E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dtだな。原発よりいいエネルギー源になりそうｗ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
This time nothing interesting here. But translated just in case someone wonders what's there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 00:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, this can be done. Oh God! You're John Nash, right? I've been studying your equilibrium. To come up with something totally original the way you did... I've been developing a theory. I believe I can show that Galois extensions are covering spaces. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
::One of these days we're gonna discover the Theory of Everything if we go on like that ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yet another tweet that seems interresting, but to make it worse than usual I don't even have access to the jisho.org plugin, so I had to go with lolgoogle translate. Anyway, hopefully someone will understand what it says:

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=nekosan|id=65036264247795712|english=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん|japanese=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== Thoughts for exploration ==
If you were willing to use a more complicated simulation, here are some thoughts.
* First, you could model the fights themselves. Each fight would end in either a Win, Draw, or Loss for the magical girl. With a loss, the magical girl dies, requardless if the other combatant was a witch or a familiar. With a draw, the girl expends some energy, again reguardless of the opponent (and perhaps my be unable to fight for a couple of iterations). Winning is different though, as if the magical girl wins against a familiar, she still merely expends energy, while against a witch she's able to recharge. On the other hand, if a familiar has enough battles in its favor, it becomes a witch.
* Second, you can have the probabilities of each iteration feed back on themselves, with draws reducing the chances for future wins and wins increasing them.
* Third, you can make some assumptions about how long each girl has, from a bit a extrapolation. Something like each magical girl has 100 units of energy (life force) available when she makes the contract, and each fight uses up 10 units, and if she doesn't find an opponent, she uses up 1 unit. If a magical girl's enery runs out, she becomes a witch.
* Fourth, you can insert some randomness into each value to give some acknowledgement to the quirks of each fight. The only thing to determine is how likely it is for magical girls to fight witches and/or familiars in a given iteration. A simple way would be for a magical girl to have a 1% chance of finding a given witch or familiar, and check against all of them. You could assume that a magical girl could kill 1 enemy per iteration, or have that change with the number of victories she has.
* Fifth, you could stipulate that if a witch has a battle in its favor or doesn't fight a magical girl at all for that iteration, it generates a familiar.
* So, the change in population would be the net (summation) of all the fights between magical girls and familiars.
[[User:Kylone|Kylone]] 15:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:I think these changes will move this project beyond the realm of population modeling to life simulation. I think there's some interesting ideas here though: Is it proper for the modeling to assume that all MS and Witches have the same K, B, D, F rate, regardless of age? It's obvious from the show that [[Kyouko|veterans]] have higher survival rate than [[Sayaka|newbies]], and older [[Speculah:Walpurgis Night|witches]] are tougher than newer ones. It's possible to pseudo-account for this in modeling if we change the dependences not just on M[t] & W[t], but also on M[t-1] & W[t-1], how it will effect the outcome is not something I can possibly analyze by hand.
:: While we know that some witches are tougher than others, it doesn't necessarily correlate with age. For all we know, older witches get crazier and more self-absorbed and become less effective in combat. Oktavia von Seckendorff (Sayaka) seemed to be an unusually tough opponent (although her opponents in both episodes 9 and 10 probably weren't fighting their best), despite being only a day or two old and born from a young inexperienced magical girl. [[Special:Contributions/86.13.224.153|86.13.224.153]] 19:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Additionally, I'd like to point out an issue with the first point in the list. Familiars don't become Witches by winning fights, they "evolve" by eating a certain number of humans. I think the strength of a witch might also be partially dependent on the number of humans it has consumed, but also on a number of other factors, such as the strength of their curse (Sayaka), and the innate potential originally possessed by the magical girl(Madoka). Perhaps witches born from familiars are initially weaker than those born directly from magical girls, so their strength depends more on how many humans they've eaten than those whose grief seed came from a soul gem?[[User:Jorlem|Jorlem]] 20:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:However, I think all of us that edits this page have been quite burnt out at this point to try out these changes, so don't expect any work on this for quite some time. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, I like your approach. It's not really modeling (it's more like a live simulation as prima said), but it might be interresting to try, just out of curiosity. The main concern of your approach is that it relies on a lot of variables we have to extrapolate/think up. It's gonna be hard to find realistic values that give an interpretable result (just see the problems we already have with the time-based model ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that I have access to the "real" Matlab (not FreeMat) and Simulink, I'll try to make a more detailed analysis of the last model which we expected to be chaotic ... As soon as I find out how to use the min() function in Simulink's differential equations editor --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== F, C, D/B are dynamic; Witches can be revived as necessary ==

* Familiar-to-witch conversion rate decreases as the number of witches relative to the number of humans increases due to competition for "food"/saturation in a city being reached.
* QB's recruitment rate is obviously situation-dependent as he'll only recruit as many magical girls as he needs. If there are many witches around he may recruit more. If there are few around he might recruit extremely instable girls who will turn into witches soon. And he will also try to keep the number of magical girls low to avoid an entire army of MGs marching around, that would get too much attention
* If there are plenty of witches around then MGs can also hunt for the weakest ones first to gather soulpower, thus decreasing their conversion rate (decreases B) and avoiding deaths (decreases D)

The system is not instable at all, it's self-regulating. If there are too many MG's QB can just stop recruiting and wait until they turn one way or another. He can also release one of his stored grief seeds and resurrect a witch by saturating the seed with additional grief. See episode 3.
If there are too many witches their self-replication via F gets decreases since they are competing for food, humans. --[[Special:Contributions/91.16.15.53|91.16.15.53]] 06:54, 28 March 2011 (BST)

== Zombies ==

Just realized that this could be slightly modified for zombies. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 04:34, 29 March 2011 (BST)
:Also vampires. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 08:30, 30 March 2011 (BST)
:You might be interested in this study on zombie population modeling: http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
::I also thought about zombie population modeling given the similarities between both models. I've been a little lazy lately (and busy with real-life stuff too) so I didn't take the time to go and look for the articles on the subject, but it was on my todo-list ... Maybe I'll try and adapt it one of these days if I find the time and motivation, just in case we get different results from what is already on the page. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

== Reaction Kinetics ==

* The speed of a reaction depends on the concentration of the reactants. Assuming that the distribution of both magical girls and witches are uniform, I think <math> - K \times M(t) \times W(t) </math> is a better model for the death of witches than either the simple model (<math> - K \times M(t) </math>) or the refined model (<math> - K \times \mathrm{Min}(W(t), M(t))</math>.) --[[Special:Contributions/24.23.181.131|24.23.181.131]] 01:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Amaki
::Gotta read up on rate equations, but I do think this is a valid refinement to the models. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

==Full pop dynamics model==

I came up with a model which I believe better predicts the actions of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, Witches, and Kyubey.

The model:

M(t+1) = M(t) + C + I*W(t) - B*M(t) - K*M(t)*W(t)

W(t+1) = W(t) + B*M(t) + F*(W(t)-H*M(t)) - S*M(t)*W(t)

Variables:

M(t) = number of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls alive at time t.

W(t) = number of Witches alive at time t.

Parameters:

C = number of girls who contract with Kyubey in a given area and time, as a base (this is needed to lift the populations from 0).

I = increment to number of girls who contract based on number of Witches (as encounters with witches are usually how he gets his claws in)

B = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls mature into Witches (largely independent of number of Witches, since the magic expended fighting them is regained by use of Grief Seeds)

K = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls are killed by Witches (only other Magical Girls and Witches have a hope of killing one thanks to their effective lichdom, and generally they avoid fighting each other - if you wanted you could add an additional quadratic term in M(t) to represent territorial rivalry)

F = rate at which Witches propagate due to familiars without the intervention of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls.

H = average heroism of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, expressed as the number of witches they can suppress familiar reproduction from. It's called heroism because only "heroic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Sayaka and Mami engage in this, whereas "pragmatic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Homura (kinda) and Kyouko do not.

S = rate at which witches are slain by Puellae Magi/Magical Girls. (as normal humans generally are unable to kill them)

Of note, with many sensible choices of parameters this model has stable solutions with more Witches than Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, as is apparently the case in the show.

Note that to scale this model up or down, one must modify the quadratic parameters K and S, as they are a result of density rather than absolute number. For each doubling of C (the only constant parameter), they must be halved.

[[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

----

:Rather fried at the moment, any chance you can run some simulations to get an idea how this model changes the population dynamics? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

::I ran it through Excel a bunch of times before putting it up. There are some sets of parameters that result in quickly-attained (within 20 iterations) stable solutions that persist indefinitely. There are others for which everything generally goes nuts (the quadratic terms can result in more witches being killed than there are witches to kill, or more magical girls dying than there are magical girls to die) but these are an artifact of running the simulation discretely AFAIK. Familiar reproduction can result in apocalypse for sufficiently large F and sufficiently small H, but will be contained by I kicking in (though, again, there are issues with running this discretely). The important parts for the stability of the solution are the quadratic terms and the existence of I to curb apocalypse - H is only provided for completeness and accuracy. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 11:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
:::We'll need matlab for this one. I can try to work out some results on paper, but that'll be several days from now. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:40, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
::::I have tried some model like this very much. Given that there be many familiars per witch and very low rate for them to become witches(so that number of witches won't grow exponentially), the factor H is really neglectable. Even every magical girl kills familiars like Sayaka, the number of witches won't significant decrease than nobody does that. Sayaka, you are really such a fool. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 06:19, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
:Well, like I said, H is included for completeness. It does affect the steady state, though, decreasing the amount of witches and increasing the amount of magical girls.
::''H'' does affect the equilibrium, but it won't change the qualitative outcome AFAIK. If a set of values leads to a dominance of witches, then <math>W(t) > M(t)_{t \rightarrow \infty}</math> no matter what the value for ''H'' is (as long as it's lower than 1 of course).<br>Also, could you give me the values you used and that gave a chaotic outcome? It may be related to my change with the ''C'' factor (see below), but I always get an equilibrium... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 12:29, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Ok, now I found whether H is important is depend on the contribution to # of witches from familiars. By carefully choosing the parameters, equilibrium can be ensured to prevent number of witches out of control. If most witches came from familiar (higher F value and lower B value), then killing familiars does help reducing number of witches. But I don't see many witches came from familiars in the anime. One of my results as an example may be viewed at [https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=zh_TW&hl=zh_TW&key=0AkA8SnM-_mEpdFZLYkEwYTNrVmF1MG9RQ2s2UjF6dmc&single=true&gid=1&output=html here.] The 4th and 5th columns are values with H=100%, while 6th and 7th columns are values with H=0%. More heroic MGs can help reduce witches and number of killed MGs, but also means more MGs become witches, so the outcome is still not much difference. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:19, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: If F is near the critical value to cause runaway, then obviously H is relevant, as a tiny change can cause huge differences in the result. Also, there is a constant threat of witches in Mitakihara (sp?) City, but only one MG is seen to turn over the course of the show, so the implication is that most witches do indeed come from familiars (the argument is that every single magical girl seen killed many witches, but a MG can produce a grand total of one witch via direct transformation, so most of those witches have to come from familiars assuming a steady state). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

----

Now that I have a chance to sit down and look at this model, I think it's extremely sound in logic and should in some way be placed on [[population dynamics]] as the primary model. I still doesn't have a chance to analyze its full implications yet, but I hope [[user:Homerun-chan]] will run some matlab on this.
:Did someone say "Matlab"? Cuz I think I herd someone say "Matlab"...<br>Anyway, I'm back home, so I'll make a script off it when I get the time (which will be a bit tricky since I'm working fulltime starting on Monday... Either I'll hijack one of their computer or do it on my free time). I just got back like 3 minutes ago so I didn't carefully read the model yet, but more model refinements is always bound to be a good thing :) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:28, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

----

If we settle on this model, our next venue of research should be start proposing realistic numbers for the constants and variables. For example, we can dig through census datas and find the yearly rate of unidentified deaths and suicides, and infer certain numbers regarding witches from it. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
:Are you planning to infer the number of witches in the "real" world based on our models, instead of just analyzing qualitative data? Might be interesting, but also extremely tricky, as we have to guess and fine-tune most of the parameters in our equations --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:58, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: A bunch of the parameters can be estimated based on what we see in the show, for instance the K/S (D/K in your version) ratio based on the number of witches seen killed vs. the number of magical girls seen killed. With an established density of witches, the B/D ratio can also be established from the known proportions of magical girls that die vs. become witches. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

----

I think there's something odd with your model Magic9mushroom. Because of the ''I'' and ''C'' parameters, at each iteration, the number of MSes being contracted depends both on the number of witches, and on a constant term. In other words, that would mean Kyubey "randomly" chooses ''C'' girls, and also contracts ''I'' girls that were in contact with witches. I don't remember any canon element that would allow us to validate or debunk this assumption, but it seems more consistent to me that QBe only contracts girls that were approached by witches; so, I ran [[Matlab:New population model|a script]] with only the ''C'' parameter for now, I'll modify it if needed as the conversation goes on. (Note: I also renamed your K as D, and your S as K, since that's the names we used in the previous models) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 12:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
: Well, Mami's and Kyouko's backstories imply they had no contact with witches prior to becoming Magical Girls (well, it's possible that Mami's accident was caused by a witch's curse, but there isn't much indication either way), so I'd say that it is indeed validated by canon. Additionally, I is crucially important, since it increases magical girl production (and thus attrition) when there are too many witches, making the model more stable. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: Oh, also, looking at your results, I see that you've assumed 120 witches are killed in battle for every magical girl that is. Don't you think that's a bit much? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:34, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

== See also ==

Experimental results are being discussed [[Talk:Matlab:Gradual dimming population model|here]] --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

== After the Finale ==

In the finale, Madoka "changed the fundamental laws of nature" by "wishing to remove magic girls before they ever become witches." In terms of our models, the essential effect of this wish removes B*M(t) component from our differential equations. Are there any model that are capable of provide for an sustainable W(t) (for magical creatures) population even when B*M(t) are removed? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:Why do you want to model the population dynamics after the ending, i.e. when one of the populations disappeared? Basically, even if QBe continues generating MSes (but he'd have no reason to since they wouldn't become witches), no MS would become a witch anymore, so in the end W(t) stays at zero and M(t) grows linearly, that's all. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
::I suppose you're right. There's nothing in the witch population model that carries over for magical creatures. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Just rewatched episode 12 (in fact, I paid attention to it for the first time), so I should correct myself: apparently, there are still Magical Girls in the new world, and they are still fighting, but this time MSes and "magical beast" do not interact in any other way than fighting each other. That looks like a regular Lotka-Volterra system to me. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Population dynamics

2011-07-24T20:30:16Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Full pop dynamics model */

<div style="border:1px solid #c0c090;padding:10px;background:#FDFFEE;margin:-0.4em 0 0.6em;">'''Previous discussions are archived at''':
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Analysis]] (refined model analysis)
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Archive 1]] (old discussions, up to Apr. 17th)
</div>

==Japanese translations==

Since quite a lot of our japanese colleagues seem to want a translation, here's what I found so far:
*[http://joeshishimaru.jugem.jp/?eid=2375]
*[http://nmori.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-446.html]
(comes directly from random tweets).<br>Hope it helps --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

==Simulations and graphs==
I feel that you should add the assumed numbers right above the graphs, because those will affect greatly how the graphs turn out, and I think that putting the numbers up front will enable readers to agree with your starting numbers first.[[Special:Contributions/220.255.2.142|220.255.2.142]] 13:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the advice, adding it right now. Also, note that they are in the image's description field. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering, what are those numbers that appeared below the constants in the simulation tables? (<math>\textstyle{ {C \over {B+D} } }</math>, <math>\textstyle{C \left( {{B-K} \over {B+D}} \right)}</math>, ...). Maybe we should put somewhere what they represent, because as-is they're not really relevant ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

==Twitter and IRC corrections==
Along with the other tweets, I found this one that seemed interresting, but I'm not sure I understand it. Basically, they're saying the refined model only works when F+B+1-K>0?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=aibery|id=49153350415028224|japanese=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。|english=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}

It might be nice to investigate it a little, or explain why it is the case if you know... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

:It is a stumbling block I located as well.
:In the case when M(t) > W(t), ΔW=(F+B-K)W, that is, change in witch population depends solely on the current population, modified by the constant (F+B-K). If F+B-K is negative, then ΔW is negative, and the population spirals downwards to zero, and M becomes a linear function Ct. The population dynamics breaks down. The only way to avoid this is if F+B-K is nonegative, but I am not certain how we can justify it, unless we call Kyuubey as a rational agent again. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::Actually, it's just a logical consequence of our model. If we change the hypotheses so that soul gems dim over time, we should fall back to a working model. I wouldn't do it though, since there has been no proof of that in canon, and it means setting a model to show us what we want to show, instead of solving the inconsistency at its source. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:::It's a interesting thought, with the refined modeled, the witch population either is always increasing or always decreasing, as long as it is smaller than the magical girls population. If we also include dimming, both populations has the additional potential to simulatenously stabilized, but also with the caveat that the witch population is less than the magical girls population. This implies that unlike the simple model, both refinements have significant dependence on actual variable values. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 14:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Another tweet I found but I don't understand. Basically, if I got it right, this person asked their professor to look into it and they have some ideas of corrections to make?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=goodhuntstalker|id=50571505112846336|japanese=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ|english=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Interresting remark from the IRC: when a witch is killed, do her familiars disappear as well? (at least the ones that didn't achieve maturation). And the subsequent question: is it taken into account in our models? I'd say "yes" to both questions since <math>\Delta W = F * W(t) + ... </math>, but I'm not sure so external opinions would be welcome. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:There's no clean cut answer since we don't actually model the familiar population. I suppose the best interpretation is that since F*W(t) is dependent on witch numbers, all familiars die when their witch was killed. What if this isn't true? How can we adjust the model to account for this? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Damn my poor skills at japanese. Isn't this tweet saying something interresting? If anybody could translate it, or at least tell us if it says anything new ...

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59241793056813056|english=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい|japanese=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:According to my Rikaichan skills, it says: ''This is great. Well done LOL, but I dare to say, the state change diagram seems wrong. Because witches are not turning back into magical girls upon death, the K state change should not link dead with M(t). The equations are correct.'' --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 19:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There's another tweet by the same author, with my <s>trans</s>guesslation attempt:
{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59246142113841153|english=If we put this analysis into practical use, at a given time ''t'', total amount of extracted energy equals an integral over that time t of: population of magical girls * probability of turning into a witch * amount of energy Kyubey extracts in a unit of time. In short, E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dt. It looks like a great source of energy, compared to a nuclear power plant.|japanese=この解析を応用すれば、時間ｔでの魔法少女の個体数×魔女への状態遷移確率×エネルギー抽出量でＱＢが時間当たりに抽出するエネルギー量、さらにそれを時間ｔで積分すれば、エネルギーの総抽出量が計算できるね。つまり、E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dtだな。原発よりいいエネルギー源になりそうｗ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
This time nothing interesting here. But translated just in case someone wonders what's there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 00:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, this can be done. Oh God! You're John Nash, right? I've been studying your equilibrium. To come up with something totally original the way you did... I've been developing a theory. I believe I can show that Galois extensions are covering spaces. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
::One of these days we're gonna discover the Theory of Everything if we go on like that ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yet another tweet that seems interresting, but to make it worse than usual I don't even have access to the jisho.org plugin, so I had to go with lolgoogle translate. Anyway, hopefully someone will understand what it says:

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=nekosan|id=65036264247795712|english=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん|japanese=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== Thoughts for exploration ==
If you were willing to use a more complicated simulation, here are some thoughts.
* First, you could model the fights themselves. Each fight would end in either a Win, Draw, or Loss for the magical girl. With a loss, the magical girl dies, requardless if the other combatant was a witch or a familiar. With a draw, the girl expends some energy, again reguardless of the opponent (and perhaps my be unable to fight for a couple of iterations). Winning is different though, as if the magical girl wins against a familiar, she still merely expends energy, while against a witch she's able to recharge. On the other hand, if a familiar has enough battles in its favor, it becomes a witch.
* Second, you can have the probabilities of each iteration feed back on themselves, with draws reducing the chances for future wins and wins increasing them.
* Third, you can make some assumptions about how long each girl has, from a bit a extrapolation. Something like each magical girl has 100 units of energy (life force) available when she makes the contract, and each fight uses up 10 units, and if she doesn't find an opponent, she uses up 1 unit. If a magical girl's enery runs out, she becomes a witch.
* Fourth, you can insert some randomness into each value to give some acknowledgement to the quirks of each fight. The only thing to determine is how likely it is for magical girls to fight witches and/or familiars in a given iteration. A simple way would be for a magical girl to have a 1% chance of finding a given witch or familiar, and check against all of them. You could assume that a magical girl could kill 1 enemy per iteration, or have that change with the number of victories she has.
* Fifth, you could stipulate that if a witch has a battle in its favor or doesn't fight a magical girl at all for that iteration, it generates a familiar.
* So, the change in population would be the net (summation) of all the fights between magical girls and familiars.
[[User:Kylone|Kylone]] 15:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:I think these changes will move this project beyond the realm of population modeling to life simulation. I think there's some interesting ideas here though: Is it proper for the modeling to assume that all MS and Witches have the same K, B, D, F rate, regardless of age? It's obvious from the show that [[Kyouko|veterans]] have higher survival rate than [[Sayaka|newbies]], and older [[Speculah:Walpurgis Night|witches]] are tougher than newer ones. It's possible to pseudo-account for this in modeling if we change the dependences not just on M[t] & W[t], but also on M[t-1] & W[t-1], how it will effect the outcome is not something I can possibly analyze by hand.
:: While we know that some witches are tougher than others, it doesn't necessarily correlate with age. For all we know, older witches get crazier and more self-absorbed and become less effective in combat. Oktavia von Seckendorff (Sayaka) seemed to be an unusually tough opponent (although her opponents in both episodes 9 and 10 probably weren't fighting their best), despite being only a day or two old and born from a young inexperienced magical girl. [[Special:Contributions/86.13.224.153|86.13.224.153]] 19:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Additionally, I'd like to point out an issue with the first point in the list. Familiars don't become Witches by winning fights, they "evolve" by eating a certain number of humans. I think the strength of a witch might also be partially dependent on the number of humans it has consumed, but also on a number of other factors, such as the strength of their curse (Sayaka), and the innate potential originally possessed by the magical girl(Madoka). Perhaps witches born from familiars are initially weaker than those born directly from magical girls, so their strength depends more on how many humans they've eaten than those whose grief seed came from a soul gem?[[User:Jorlem|Jorlem]] 20:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:However, I think all of us that edits this page have been quite burnt out at this point to try out these changes, so don't expect any work on this for quite some time. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, I like your approach. It's not really modeling (it's more like a live simulation as prima said), but it might be interresting to try, just out of curiosity. The main concern of your approach is that it relies on a lot of variables we have to extrapolate/think up. It's gonna be hard to find realistic values that give an interpretable result (just see the problems we already have with the time-based model ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that I have access to the "real" Matlab (not FreeMat) and Simulink, I'll try to make a more detailed analysis of the last model which we expected to be chaotic ... As soon as I find out how to use the min() function in Simulink's differential equations editor --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== F, C, D/B are dynamic; Witches can be revived as necessary ==

* Familiar-to-witch conversion rate decreases as the number of witches relative to the number of humans increases due to competition for "food"/saturation in a city being reached.
* QB's recruitment rate is obviously situation-dependent as he'll only recruit as many magical girls as he needs. If there are many witches around he may recruit more. If there are few around he might recruit extremely instable girls who will turn into witches soon. And he will also try to keep the number of magical girls low to avoid an entire army of MGs marching around, that would get too much attention
* If there are plenty of witches around then MGs can also hunt for the weakest ones first to gather soulpower, thus decreasing their conversion rate (decreases B) and avoiding deaths (decreases D)

The system is not instable at all, it's self-regulating. If there are too many MG's QB can just stop recruiting and wait until they turn one way or another. He can also release one of his stored grief seeds and resurrect a witch by saturating the seed with additional grief. See episode 3.
If there are too many witches their self-replication via F gets decreases since they are competing for food, humans. --[[Special:Contributions/91.16.15.53|91.16.15.53]] 06:54, 28 March 2011 (BST)

== Zombies ==

Just realized that this could be slightly modified for zombies. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 04:34, 29 March 2011 (BST)
:Also vampires. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 08:30, 30 March 2011 (BST)
:You might be interested in this study on zombie population modeling: http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
::I also thought about zombie population modeling given the similarities between both models. I've been a little lazy lately (and busy with real-life stuff too) so I didn't take the time to go and look for the articles on the subject, but it was on my todo-list ... Maybe I'll try and adapt it one of these days if I find the time and motivation, just in case we get different results from what is already on the page. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

== Reaction Kinetics ==

* The speed of a reaction depends on the concentration of the reactants. Assuming that the distribution of both magical girls and witches are uniform, I think <math> - K \times M(t) \times W(t) </math> is a better model for the death of witches than either the simple model (<math> - K \times M(t) </math>) or the refined model (<math> - K \times \mathrm{Min}(W(t), M(t))</math>.) --[[Special:Contributions/24.23.181.131|24.23.181.131]] 01:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Amaki
::Gotta read up on rate equations, but I do think this is a valid refinement to the models. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

==Full pop dynamics model==

I came up with a model which I believe better predicts the actions of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, Witches, and Kyubey.

The model:

M(t+1) = M(t) + C + I*W(t) - B*M(t) - K*M(t)*W(t)

W(t+1) = W(t) + B*M(t) + F*(W(t)-H*M(t)) - S*M(t)*W(t)

Variables:

M(t) = number of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls alive at time t.

W(t) = number of Witches alive at time t.

Parameters:

C = number of girls who contract with Kyubey in a given area and time, as a base (this is needed to lift the populations from 0).

I = increment to number of girls who contract based on number of Witches (as encounters with witches are usually how he gets his claws in)

B = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls mature into Witches (largely independent of number of Witches, since the magic expended fighting them is regained by use of Grief Seeds)

K = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls are killed by Witches (only other Magical Girls and Witches have a hope of killing one thanks to their effective lichdom, and generally they avoid fighting each other - if you wanted you could add an additional quadratic term in M(t) to represent territorial rivalry)

F = rate at which Witches propagate due to familiars without the intervention of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls.

H = average heroism of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, expressed as the number of witches they can suppress familiar reproduction from. It's called heroism because only "heroic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Sayaka and Mami engage in this, whereas "pragmatic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Homura (kinda) and Kyouko do not.

S = rate at which witches are slain by Puellae Magi/Magical Girls. (as normal humans generally are unable to kill them)

Of note, with many sensible choices of parameters this model has stable solutions with more Witches than Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, as is apparently the case in the show.

Note that to scale this model up or down, one must modify the quadratic parameters K and S, as they are a result of density rather than absolute number. For each doubling of C (the only constant parameter), they must be halved.

[[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

----

:Rather fried at the moment, any chance you can run some simulations to get an idea how this model changes the population dynamics? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

::I ran it through Excel a bunch of times before putting it up. There are some sets of parameters that result in quickly-attained (within 20 iterations) stable solutions that persist indefinitely. There are others for which everything generally goes nuts (the quadratic terms can result in more witches being killed than there are witches to kill, or more magical girls dying than there are magical girls to die) but these are an artifact of running the simulation discretely AFAIK. Familiar reproduction can result in apocalypse for sufficiently large F and sufficiently small H, but will be contained by I kicking in (though, again, there are issues with running this discretely). The important parts for the stability of the solution are the quadratic terms and the existence of I to curb apocalypse - H is only provided for completeness and accuracy. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 11:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
:::We'll need matlab for this one. I can try to work out some results on paper, but that'll be several days from now. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:40, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
::::I have tried some model like this very much. Given that there be many familiars per witch and very low rate for them to become witches(so that number of witches won't grow exponentially), the factor H is really neglectable. Even every magical girl kills familiars like Sayaka, the number of witches won't significant decrease than nobody does that. Sayaka, you are really such a fool. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 06:19, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
:Well, like I said, H is included for completeness. It does affect the steady state, though, decreasing the amount of witches and increasing the amount of magical girls.
::''H'' does affect the equilibrium, but it won't change the qualitative outcome AFAIK. If a set of values leads to a dominance of witches, then <math>W(t) > M(t)_{t \rightarrow \infty}</math> no matter what the value for ''H'' is (as long as it's lower than 1 of course).<br>Also, could you give me the values you used and that gave a chaotic outcome? It may be related to my change with the ''C'' factor (see below), but I always get an equilibrium... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 12:29, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:::Ok, now I found whether H is important is depend on the contribution to # of witches from familiars. By carefully choosing the parameters, equilibrium can be ensured to prevent number of witches out of control. If most witches came from familiar (higher F value and lower B value), then killing familiars does help reducing number of witches. But I don't see many witches came from familiars in the anime. One of my results as an example may be viewed at [https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=zh_TW&hl=zh_TW&key=0AkA8SnM-_mEpdFZLYkEwYTNrVmF1MG9RQ2s2UjF6dmc&single=true&gid=1&output=html here.] The 4th and 5th columns are values with H=100%, while 6th and 7th columns are values with H=0%. More heroic MGs can help reduce witches and number of killed MGs, but also means more MGs become witches, so the outcome is still not much difference. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 14:19, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: If F is near the critical value to cause runaway, then obviously H is relevant, as a tiny change can cause huge differences in the result. Also, there is a constant threat of witches in Mitakihara (sp?) City, but only one MG is seen to turn over the course of the show, so the implication is that most witches do indeed come from familiars (the argument is that every single magical girl seen killed many witches, but a MG can produce a grand total of one witch via direct transformation, so most of those witches have to come from familiars assuming a steady state). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

----

Now that I have a chance to sit down and look at this model, I think it's extremely sound in logic and should in some way be placed on [[population dynamics]] as the primary model. I still doesn't have a chance to analyze its full implications yet, but I hope [[user:Homerun-chan]] will run some matlab on this.
:Did someone say "Matlab"? Cuz I think I herd someone say "Matlab"...<br>Anyway, I'm back home, so I'll make a script off it when I get the time (which will be a bit tricky since I'm working fulltime starting on Monday... Either I'll hijack one of their computer or do it on my free time). I just got back like 3 minutes ago so I didn't carefully read the model yet, but more model refinements is always bound to be a good thing :) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:28, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

----

If we settle on this model, our next venue of research should be start proposing realistic numbers for the constants and variables. For example, we can dig through census datas and find the yearly rate of unidentified deaths and suicides, and infer certain numbers regarding witches from it. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 06:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
:Are you planning to infer the number of witches in the "real" world based on our models, instead of just analyzing qualitative data? Might be interesting, but also extremely tricky, as we have to guess and fine-tune most of the parameters in our equations --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:58, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: A bunch of the parameters can be estimated based on what we see in the show, for instance the K/S (D/K in your version) ratio based on the number of witches seen killed vs. the number of magical girls seen killed. With an established density of witches, the B/D ratio can also be established from the known proportions of magical girls that die vs. become witches. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

----

I think there's something odd with your model Magic9mushroom. Because of the ''I'' and ''C'' parameters, at each iteration, the number of MSes being contracted depends both on the number of witches, and on a constant term. In other words, that would mean Kyubey "randomly" chooses ''C'' girls, and also contracts ''I'' girls that were in contact with witches. I don't remember any canon element that would allow us to validate or debunk this assumption, but it seems more consistent to me that QBe only contracts girls that were approached by witches; so, I ran [[Matlab:New population model|a script]] with only the ''C'' parameter for now, I'll modify it if needed as the conversation goes on. (Note: I also renamed your K as D, and your S as K, since that's the names we used in the previous models) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 12:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
:: Well, Mami's and Kyouko's backstories imply they had no contact with witches prior to becoming Magical Girls (well, it's possible that Mami's accident was caused by a witch's curse, but there isn't much indication either way), so I'd say that it is indeed validated by canon. Additionally, I is crucially important, since it increases magical girl production (and thus attrition) when there are too many witches, making the model more stable. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 20:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

== See also ==

Experimental results are being discussed [[Talk:Matlab:Gradual dimming population model|here]] --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

== After the Finale ==

In the finale, Madoka "changed the fundamental laws of nature" by "wishing to remove magic girls before they ever become witches." In terms of our models, the essential effect of this wish removes B*M(t) component from our differential equations. Are there any model that are capable of provide for an sustainable W(t) (for magical creatures) population even when B*M(t) are removed? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:Why do you want to model the population dynamics after the ending, i.e. when one of the populations disappeared? Basically, even if QBe continues generating MSes (but he'd have no reason to since they wouldn't become witches), no MS would become a witch anymore, so in the end W(t) stays at zero and M(t) grows linearly, that's all. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
::I suppose you're right. There's nothing in the witch population model that carries over for magical creatures. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Just rewatched episode 12 (in fact, I paid attention to it for the first time), so I should correct myself: apparently, there are still Magical Girls in the new world, and they are still fighting, but this time MSes and "magical beast" do not interact in any other way than fighting each other. That looks like a regular Lotka-Volterra system to me. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Population dynamics

2011-07-22T08:23:58Z

Magic9mushroom: /* Full pop dynamics model */

<div style="border:1px solid #c0c090;padding:10px;background:#FDFFEE;margin:-0.4em 0 0.6em;">'''Previous discussions are archived at''':
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Analysis]] (refined model analysis)
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Archive 1]] (old discussions, up to Apr. 17th)
</div>

==Japanese translations==

Since quite a lot of our japanese colleagues seem to want a translation, here's what I found so far:
*[http://joeshishimaru.jugem.jp/?eid=2375]
*[http://nmori.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-446.html]
(comes directly from random tweets).<br>Hope it helps --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

==Simulations and graphs==
I feel that you should add the assumed numbers right above the graphs, because those will affect greatly how the graphs turn out, and I think that putting the numbers up front will enable readers to agree with your starting numbers first.[[Special:Contributions/220.255.2.142|220.255.2.142]] 13:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the advice, adding it right now. Also, note that they are in the image's description field. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering, what are those numbers that appeared below the constants in the simulation tables? (<math>\textstyle{ {C \over {B+D} } }</math>, <math>\textstyle{C \left( {{B-K} \over {B+D}} \right)}</math>, ...). Maybe we should put somewhere what they represent, because as-is they're not really relevant ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

==Twitter and IRC corrections==
Along with the other tweets, I found this one that seemed interresting, but I'm not sure I understand it. Basically, they're saying the refined model only works when F+B+1-K>0?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=aibery|id=49153350415028224|japanese=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。|english=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}

It might be nice to investigate it a little, or explain why it is the case if you know... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

:It is a stumbling block I located as well.
:In the case when M(t) > W(t), ΔW=(F+B-K)W, that is, change in witch population depends solely on the current population, modified by the constant (F+B-K). If F+B-K is negative, then ΔW is negative, and the population spirals downwards to zero, and M becomes a linear function Ct. The population dynamics breaks down. The only way to avoid this is if F+B-K is nonegative, but I am not certain how we can justify it, unless we call Kyuubey as a rational agent again. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::Actually, it's just a logical consequence of our model. If we change the hypotheses so that soul gems dim over time, we should fall back to a working model. I wouldn't do it though, since there has been no proof of that in canon, and it means setting a model to show us what we want to show, instead of solving the inconsistency at its source. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:::It's a interesting thought, with the refined modeled, the witch population either is always increasing or always decreasing, as long as it is smaller than the magical girls population. If we also include dimming, both populations has the additional potential to simulatenously stabilized, but also with the caveat that the witch population is less than the magical girls population. This implies that unlike the simple model, both refinements have significant dependence on actual variable values. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 14:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Another tweet I found but I don't understand. Basically, if I got it right, this person asked their professor to look into it and they have some ideas of corrections to make?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=goodhuntstalker|id=50571505112846336|japanese=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ|english=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Interresting remark from the IRC: when a witch is killed, do her familiars disappear as well? (at least the ones that didn't achieve maturation). And the subsequent question: is it taken into account in our models? I'd say "yes" to both questions since <math>\Delta W = F * W(t) + ... </math>, but I'm not sure so external opinions would be welcome. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:There's no clean cut answer since we don't actually model the familiar population. I suppose the best interpretation is that since F*W(t) is dependent on witch numbers, all familiars die when their witch was killed. What if this isn't true? How can we adjust the model to account for this? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Damn my poor skills at japanese. Isn't this tweet saying something interresting? If anybody could translate it, or at least tell us if it says anything new ...

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59241793056813056|english=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい|japanese=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:According to my Rikaichan skills, it says: ''This is great. Well done LOL, but I dare to say, the state change diagram seems wrong. Because witches are not turning back into magical girls upon death, the K state change should not link dead with M(t). The equations are correct.'' --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 19:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There's another tweet by the same author, with my <s>trans</s>guesslation attempt:
{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59246142113841153|english=If we put this analysis into practical use, at a given time ''t'', total amount of extracted energy equals an integral over that time t of: population of magical girls * probability of turning into a witch * amount of energy Kyubey extracts in a unit of time. In short, E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dt. It looks like a great source of energy, compared to a nuclear power plant.|japanese=この解析を応用すれば、時間ｔでの魔法少女の個体数×魔女への状態遷移確率×エネルギー抽出量でＱＢが時間当たりに抽出するエネルギー量、さらにそれを時間ｔで積分すれば、エネルギーの総抽出量が計算できるね。つまり、E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dtだな。原発よりいいエネルギー源になりそうｗ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
This time nothing interesting here. But translated just in case someone wonders what's there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 00:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, this can be done. Oh God! You're John Nash, right? I've been studying your equilibrium. To come up with something totally original the way you did... I've been developing a theory. I believe I can show that Galois extensions are covering spaces. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
::One of these days we're gonna discover the Theory of Everything if we go on like that ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yet another tweet that seems interresting, but to make it worse than usual I don't even have access to the jisho.org plugin, so I had to go with lolgoogle translate. Anyway, hopefully someone will understand what it says:

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=nekosan|id=65036264247795712|english=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん|japanese=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== Thoughts for exploration ==
If you were willing to use a more complicated simulation, here are some thoughts.
* First, you could model the fights themselves. Each fight would end in either a Win, Draw, or Loss for the magical girl. With a loss, the magical girl dies, requardless if the other combatant was a witch or a familiar. With a draw, the girl expends some energy, again reguardless of the opponent (and perhaps my be unable to fight for a couple of iterations). Winning is different though, as if the magical girl wins against a familiar, she still merely expends energy, while against a witch she's able to recharge. On the other hand, if a familiar has enough battles in its favor, it becomes a witch.
* Second, you can have the probabilities of each iteration feed back on themselves, with draws reducing the chances for future wins and wins increasing them.
* Third, you can make some assumptions about how long each girl has, from a bit a extrapolation. Something like each magical girl has 100 units of energy (life force) available when she makes the contract, and each fight uses up 10 units, and if she doesn't find an opponent, she uses up 1 unit. If a magical girl's enery runs out, she becomes a witch.
* Fourth, you can insert some randomness into each value to give some acknowledgement to the quirks of each fight. The only thing to determine is how likely it is for magical girls to fight witches and/or familiars in a given iteration. A simple way would be for a magical girl to have a 1% chance of finding a given witch or familiar, and check against all of them. You could assume that a magical girl could kill 1 enemy per iteration, or have that change with the number of victories she has.
* Fifth, you could stipulate that if a witch has a battle in its favor or doesn't fight a magical girl at all for that iteration, it generates a familiar.
* So, the change in population would be the net (summation) of all the fights between magical girls and familiars.
[[User:Kylone|Kylone]] 15:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:I think these changes will move this project beyond the realm of population modeling to life simulation. I think there's some interesting ideas here though: Is it proper for the modeling to assume that all MS and Witches have the same K, B, D, F rate, regardless of age? It's obvious from the show that [[Kyouko|veterans]] have higher survival rate than [[Sayaka|newbies]], and older [[Speculah:Walpurgis Night|witches]] are tougher than newer ones. It's possible to pseudo-account for this in modeling if we change the dependences not just on M[t] & W[t], but also on M[t-1] & W[t-1], how it will effect the outcome is not something I can possibly analyze by hand.
:: While we know that some witches are tougher than others, it doesn't necessarily correlate with age. For all we know, older witches get crazier and more self-absorbed and become less effective in combat. Oktavia von Seckendorff (Sayaka) seemed to be an unusually tough opponent (although her opponents in both episodes 9 and 10 probably weren't fighting their best), despite being only a day or two old and born from a young inexperienced magical girl. [[Special:Contributions/86.13.224.153|86.13.224.153]] 19:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Additionally, I'd like to point out an issue with the first point in the list. Familiars don't become Witches by winning fights, they "evolve" by eating a certain number of humans. I think the strength of a witch might also be partially dependent on the number of humans it has consumed, but also on a number of other factors, such as the strength of their curse (Sayaka), and the innate potential originally possessed by the magical girl(Madoka). Perhaps witches born from familiars are initially weaker than those born directly from magical girls, so their strength depends more on how many humans they've eaten than those whose grief seed came from a soul gem?[[User:Jorlem|Jorlem]] 20:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:However, I think all of us that edits this page have been quite burnt out at this point to try out these changes, so don't expect any work on this for quite some time. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, I like your approach. It's not really modeling (it's more like a live simulation as prima said), but it might be interresting to try, just out of curiosity. The main concern of your approach is that it relies on a lot of variables we have to extrapolate/think up. It's gonna be hard to find realistic values that give an interpretable result (just see the problems we already have with the time-based model ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that I have access to the "real" Matlab (not FreeMat) and Simulink, I'll try to make a more detailed analysis of the last model which we expected to be chaotic ... As soon as I find out how to use the min() function in Simulink's differential equations editor --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== F, C, D/B are dynamic; Witches can be revived as necessary ==

* Familiar-to-witch conversion rate decreases as the number of witches relative to the number of humans increases due to competition for "food"/saturation in a city being reached.
* QB's recruitment rate is obviously situation-dependent as he'll only recruit as many magical girls as he needs. If there are many witches around he may recruit more. If there are few around he might recruit extremely instable girls who will turn into witches soon. And he will also try to keep the number of magical girls low to avoid an entire army of MGs marching around, that would get too much attention
* If there are plenty of witches around then MGs can also hunt for the weakest ones first to gather soulpower, thus decreasing their conversion rate (decreases B) and avoiding deaths (decreases D)

The system is not instable at all, it's self-regulating. If there are too many MG's QB can just stop recruiting and wait until they turn one way or another. He can also release one of his stored grief seeds and resurrect a witch by saturating the seed with additional grief. See episode 3.
If there are too many witches their self-replication via F gets decreases since they are competing for food, humans. --[[Special:Contributions/91.16.15.53|91.16.15.53]] 06:54, 28 March 2011 (BST)

== Zombies ==

Just realized that this could be slightly modified for zombies. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 04:34, 29 March 2011 (BST)
:Also vampires. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 08:30, 30 March 2011 (BST)
:You might be interested in this study on zombie population modeling: http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
::I also thought about zombie population modeling given the similarities between both models. I've been a little lazy lately (and busy with real-life stuff too) so I didn't take the time to go and look for the articles on the subject, but it was on my todo-list ... Maybe I'll try and adapt it one of these days if I find the time and motivation, just in case we get different results from what is already on the page. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

== Reaction Kinetics ==

* The speed of a reaction depends on the concentration of the reactants. Assuming that the distribution of both magical girls and witches are uniform, I think <math> - K \times M(t) \times W(t) </math> is a better model for the death of witches than either the simple model (<math> - K \times M(t) </math>) or the refined model (<math> - K \times \mathrm{Min}(W(t), M(t))</math>.) --[[Special:Contributions/24.23.181.131|24.23.181.131]] 01:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Amaki
::Gotta read up on rate equations, but I do think this is a valid refinement to the models. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

==Full pop dynamics model==

I came up with a model which I believe better predicts the actions of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, Witches, and Kyubey.

The model:

M(t+1) = M(t) + C + I*W(t) - B*M(t) - K*M(t)*W(t)

W(t+1) = W(t) + B*M(t) + F*(W(t)-H*M(t)) - S*M(t)*W(t)

Variables:

M(t) = number of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls alive at time t.

W(t) = number of Witches alive at time t.

Parameters:

C = number of girls who contract with Kyubey in a given area and time, as a base (this is needed to lift the populations from 0).

I = increment to number of girls who contract based on number of Witches (as encounters with witches are usually how he gets his claws in)

B = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls mature into Witches (largely independent of number of Witches, since the magic expended fighting them is regained by use of Grief Seeds)

K = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls are killed by Witches (only other Magical Girls and Witches have a hope of killing one thanks to their effective lichdom, and generally they avoid fighting each other - if you wanted you could add an additional quadratic term in M(t) to represent territorial rivalry)

F = rate at which Witches propagate due to familiars without the intervention of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls.

H = average heroism of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, expressed as the number of witches they can suppress familiar reproduction from. It's called heroism because only "heroic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Sayaka and Mami engage in this, whereas "pragmatic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Homura (kinda) and Kyouko do not.

S = rate at which witches are slain by Puellae Magi/Magical Girls. (as normal humans generally are unable to kill them)

Of note, with many sensible choices of parameters this model has stable solutions with more Witches than Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, as is apparently the case in the show.

Note that to scale this model up or down, one must modify the quadratic parameters K and S, as they are a result of density rather than absolute number. For each doubling of C (the only constant parameter), they must be halved.

[[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

:Rather fried at the moment, any chance you can run some simulations to get an idea how this model changes the population dynamics? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

::I ran it through Excel a bunch of times before putting it up. There are some sets of parameters that result in quickly-attained (within 20 iterations) stable solutions that persist indefinitely. There are others for which everything generally goes nuts (the quadratic terms can result in more witches being killed than there are witches to kill, or more magical girls dying than there are magical girls to die) but these are an artifact of running the simulation discretely AFAIK. Familiar reproduction can result in apocalypse for sufficiently large F and sufficiently small H, but will be contained by I kicking in (though, again, there are issues with running this discretely). The important parts for the stability of the solution are the quadratic terms and the existence of I to curb apocalypse - H is only provided for completeness and accuracy. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 11:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
:::We'll need matlab for this one. I can try to work out some results on paper, but that'll be several days from now. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:40, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
::::I have tried some model like this very much. Given that there be many familiars per witch and very low rate for them to become witches(so that number of witches won't grow exponentially), the factor H is really neglectable. Even every magical girl kills familiars like Sayaka, the number of witches won't significant decrease than nobody does that. Sayaka, you are really such a fool. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 06:19, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
:Well, like I said, H is included for completeness. It does affect the steady state, though, decreasing the amount of witches and increasing the amount of magical girls.

== See also ==

Experimental results are being discussed [[Talk:Matlab:Gradual dimming population model|here]] --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

== After the Finale ==

In the finale, Madoka "changed the fundamental laws of nature" by "wishing to remove magic girls before they ever become witches." In terms of our models, the essential effect of this wish removes B*M(t) component from our differential equations. Are there any model that are capable of provide for an sustainable W(t) (for magical creatures) population even when B*M(t) are removed? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:Why do you want to model the population dynamics after the ending, i.e. when one of the populations disappeared? Basically, even if QBe continues generating MSes (but he'd have no reason to since they wouldn't become witches), no MS would become a witch anymore, so in the end W(t) stays at zero and M(t) grows linearly, that's all. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
::I suppose you're right. There's nothing in the witch population model that carries over for magical creatures. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Just rewatched episode 12 (in fact, I paid attention to it for the first time), so I should correct myself: apparently, there are still Magical Girls in the new world, and they are still fighting, but this time MSes and "magical beast" do not interact in any other way than fighting each other. That looks like a regular Lotka-Volterra system to me. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Population dynamics

2011-07-19T11:39:30Z

Magic9mushroom: reply...

<div style="border:1px solid #c0c090;padding:10px;background:#FDFFEE;margin:-0.4em 0 0.6em;">'''Previous discussions are archived at''':
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Analysis]] (refined model analysis)
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Archive 1]] (old discussions, up to Apr. 17th)
</div>

==Japanese translations==

Since quite a lot of our japanese colleagues seem to want a translation, here's what I found so far:
*[http://joeshishimaru.jugem.jp/?eid=2375]
*[http://nmori.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-446.html]
(comes directly from random tweets).<br>Hope it helps --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

==Simulations and graphs==
I feel that you should add the assumed numbers right above the graphs, because those will affect greatly how the graphs turn out, and I think that putting the numbers up front will enable readers to agree with your starting numbers first.[[Special:Contributions/220.255.2.142|220.255.2.142]] 13:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the advice, adding it right now. Also, note that they are in the image's description field. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering, what are those numbers that appeared below the constants in the simulation tables? (<math>\textstyle{ {C \over {B+D} } }</math>, <math>\textstyle{C \left( {{B-K} \over {B+D}} \right)}</math>, ...). Maybe we should put somewhere what they represent, because as-is they're not really relevant ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

==Twitter and IRC corrections==
Along with the other tweets, I found this one that seemed interresting, but I'm not sure I understand it. Basically, they're saying the refined model only works when F+B+1-K>0?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=aibery|id=49153350415028224|japanese=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。|english=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}

It might be nice to investigate it a little, or explain why it is the case if you know... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

:It is a stumbling block I located as well.
:In the case when M(t) > W(t), ΔW=(F+B-K)W, that is, change in witch population depends solely on the current population, modified by the constant (F+B-K). If F+B-K is negative, then ΔW is negative, and the population spirals downwards to zero, and M becomes a linear function Ct. The population dynamics breaks down. The only way to avoid this is if F+B-K is nonegative, but I am not certain how we can justify it, unless we call Kyuubey as a rational agent again. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::Actually, it's just a logical consequence of our model. If we change the hypotheses so that soul gems dim over time, we should fall back to a working model. I wouldn't do it though, since there has been no proof of that in canon, and it means setting a model to show us what we want to show, instead of solving the inconsistency at its source. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:::It's a interesting thought, with the refined modeled, the witch population either is always increasing or always decreasing, as long as it is smaller than the magical girls population. If we also include dimming, both populations has the additional potential to simulatenously stabilized, but also with the caveat that the witch population is less than the magical girls population. This implies that unlike the simple model, both refinements have significant dependence on actual variable values. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 14:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Another tweet I found but I don't understand. Basically, if I got it right, this person asked their professor to look into it and they have some ideas of corrections to make?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=goodhuntstalker|id=50571505112846336|japanese=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ|english=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Interresting remark from the IRC: when a witch is killed, do her familiars disappear as well? (at least the ones that didn't achieve maturation). And the subsequent question: is it taken into account in our models? I'd say "yes" to both questions since <math>\Delta W = F * W(t) + ... </math>, but I'm not sure so external opinions would be welcome. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:There's no clean cut answer since we don't actually model the familiar population. I suppose the best interpretation is that since F*W(t) is dependent on witch numbers, all familiars die when their witch was killed. What if this isn't true? How can we adjust the model to account for this? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Damn my poor skills at japanese. Isn't this tweet saying something interresting? If anybody could translate it, or at least tell us if it says anything new ...

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59241793056813056|english=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい|japanese=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:According to my Rikaichan skills, it says: ''This is great. Well done LOL, but I dare to say, the state change diagram seems wrong. Because witches are not turning back into magical girls upon death, the K state change should not link dead with M(t). The equations are correct.'' --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 19:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There's another tweet by the same author, with my <s>trans</s>guesslation attempt:
{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59246142113841153|english=If we put this analysis into practical use, at a given time ''t'', total amount of extracted energy equals an integral over that time t of: population of magical girls * probability of turning into a witch * amount of energy Kyubey extracts in a unit of time. In short, E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dt. It looks like a great source of energy, compared to a nuclear power plant.|japanese=この解析を応用すれば、時間ｔでの魔法少女の個体数×魔女への状態遷移確率×エネルギー抽出量でＱＢが時間当たりに抽出するエネルギー量、さらにそれを時間ｔで積分すれば、エネルギーの総抽出量が計算できるね。つまり、E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dtだな。原発よりいいエネルギー源になりそうｗ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
This time nothing interesting here. But translated just in case someone wonders what's there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 00:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, this can be done. Oh God! You're John Nash, right? I've been studying your equilibrium. To come up with something totally original the way you did... I've been developing a theory. I believe I can show that Galois extensions are covering spaces. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
::One of these days we're gonna discover the Theory of Everything if we go on like that ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yet another tweet that seems interresting, but to make it worse than usual I don't even have access to the jisho.org plugin, so I had to go with lolgoogle translate. Anyway, hopefully someone will understand what it says:

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=nekosan|id=65036264247795712|english=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん|japanese=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== Thoughts for exploration ==
If you were willing to use a more complicated simulation, here are some thoughts.
* First, you could model the fights themselves. Each fight would end in either a Win, Draw, or Loss for the magical girl. With a loss, the magical girl dies, requardless if the other combatant was a witch or a familiar. With a draw, the girl expends some energy, again reguardless of the opponent (and perhaps my be unable to fight for a couple of iterations). Winning is different though, as if the magical girl wins against a familiar, she still merely expends energy, while against a witch she's able to recharge. On the other hand, if a familiar has enough battles in its favor, it becomes a witch.
* Second, you can have the probabilities of each iteration feed back on themselves, with draws reducing the chances for future wins and wins increasing them.
* Third, you can make some assumptions about how long each girl has, from a bit a extrapolation. Something like each magical girl has 100 units of energy (life force) available when she makes the contract, and each fight uses up 10 units, and if she doesn't find an opponent, she uses up 1 unit. If a magical girl's enery runs out, she becomes a witch.
* Fourth, you can insert some randomness into each value to give some acknowledgement to the quirks of each fight. The only thing to determine is how likely it is for magical girls to fight witches and/or familiars in a given iteration. A simple way would be for a magical girl to have a 1% chance of finding a given witch or familiar, and check against all of them. You could assume that a magical girl could kill 1 enemy per iteration, or have that change with the number of victories she has.
* Fifth, you could stipulate that if a witch has a battle in its favor or doesn't fight a magical girl at all for that iteration, it generates a familiar.
* So, the change in population would be the net (summation) of all the fights between magical girls and familiars.
[[User:Kylone|Kylone]] 15:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:I think these changes will move this project beyond the realm of population modeling to life simulation. I think there's some interesting ideas here though: Is it proper for the modeling to assume that all MS and Witches have the same K, B, D, F rate, regardless of age? It's obvious from the show that [[Kyouko|veterans]] have higher survival rate than [[Sayaka|newbies]], and older [[Speculah:Walpurgis Night|witches]] are tougher than newer ones. It's possible to pseudo-account for this in modeling if we change the dependences not just on M[t] & W[t], but also on M[t-1] & W[t-1], how it will effect the outcome is not something I can possibly analyze by hand.
:: While we know that some witches are tougher than others, it doesn't necessarily correlate with age. For all we know, older witches get crazier and more self-absorbed and become less effective in combat. Oktavia von Seckendorff (Sayaka) seemed to be an unusually tough opponent (although her opponents in both episodes 9 and 10 probably weren't fighting their best), despite being only a day or two old and born from a young inexperienced magical girl. [[Special:Contributions/86.13.224.153|86.13.224.153]] 19:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Additionally, I'd like to point out an issue with the first point in the list. Familiars don't become Witches by winning fights, they "evolve" by eating a certain number of humans. I think the strength of a witch might also be partially dependent on the number of humans it has consumed, but also on a number of other factors, such as the strength of their curse (Sayaka), and the innate potential originally possessed by the magical girl(Madoka). Perhaps witches born from familiars are initially weaker than those born directly from magical girls, so their strength depends more on how many humans they've eaten than those whose grief seed came from a soul gem?[[User:Jorlem|Jorlem]] 20:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:However, I think all of us that edits this page have been quite burnt out at this point to try out these changes, so don't expect any work on this for quite some time. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, I like your approach. It's not really modeling (it's more like a live simulation as prima said), but it might be interresting to try, just out of curiosity. The main concern of your approach is that it relies on a lot of variables we have to extrapolate/think up. It's gonna be hard to find realistic values that give an interpretable result (just see the problems we already have with the time-based model ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that I have access to the "real" Matlab (not FreeMat) and Simulink, I'll try to make a more detailed analysis of the last model which we expected to be chaotic ... As soon as I find out how to use the min() function in Simulink's differential equations editor --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== F, C, D/B are dynamic; Witches can be revived as necessary ==

* Familiar-to-witch conversion rate decreases as the number of witches relative to the number of humans increases due to competition for "food"/saturation in a city being reached.
* QB's recruitment rate is obviously situation-dependent as he'll only recruit as many magical girls as he needs. If there are many witches around he may recruit more. If there are few around he might recruit extremely instable girls who will turn into witches soon. And he will also try to keep the number of magical girls low to avoid an entire army of MGs marching around, that would get too much attention
* If there are plenty of witches around then MGs can also hunt for the weakest ones first to gather soulpower, thus decreasing their conversion rate (decreases B) and avoiding deaths (decreases D)

The system is not instable at all, it's self-regulating. If there are too many MG's QB can just stop recruiting and wait until they turn one way or another. He can also release one of his stored grief seeds and resurrect a witch by saturating the seed with additional grief. See episode 3.
If there are too many witches their self-replication via F gets decreases since they are competing for food, humans. --[[Special:Contributions/91.16.15.53|91.16.15.53]] 06:54, 28 March 2011 (BST)

== Zombies ==

Just realized that this could be slightly modified for zombies. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 04:34, 29 March 2011 (BST)
:Also vampires. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 08:30, 30 March 2011 (BST)
:You might be interested in this study on zombie population modeling: http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
::I also thought about zombie population modeling given the similarities between both models. I've been a little lazy lately (and busy with real-life stuff too) so I didn't take the time to go and look for the articles on the subject, but it was on my todo-list ... Maybe I'll try and adapt it one of these days if I find the time and motivation, just in case we get different results from what is already on the page. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

== Reaction Kinetics ==

* The speed of a reaction depends on the concentration of the reactants. Assuming that the distribution of both magical girls and witches are uniform, I think <math> - K \times M(t) \times W(t) </math> is a better model for the death of witches than either the simple model (<math> - K \times M(t) </math>) or the refined model (<math> - K \times \mathrm{Min}(W(t), M(t))</math>.) --[[Special:Contributions/24.23.181.131|24.23.181.131]] 01:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Amaki
::Gotta read up on rate equations, but I do think this is a valid refinement to the models. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

==Full pop dynamics model==

I came up with a model which I believe better predicts the actions of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, Witches, and Kyubey.

The model:

M(t+1) = M(t) + C + I*W(t) - B*M(t) - K*M(t)*W(t)

W(t+1) = W(t) + B*M(t) + F*(W(t)-H*M(t)) - S*M(t)*W(t)

Variables:

M(t) = number of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls alive at time t.

W(t) = number of Witches alive at time t.

Parameters:

C = number of girls who contract with Kyubey in a given area and time, as a base (this is needed to lift the populations from 0).

I = increment to number of girls who contract based on number of Witches (as encounters with witches are usually how he gets his claws in)

B = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls mature into Witches (largely independent of number of Witches, since the magic expended fighting them is regained by use of Grief Seeds)

K = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls are killed by Witches (only other Magical Girls and Witches have a hope of killing one thanks to their effective lichdom, and generally they avoid fighting each other - if you wanted you could add an additional quadratic term in M(t) to represent territorial rivalry)

F = rate at which Witches propagate due to familiars without the intervention of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls.

H = average heroism of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, expressed as the number of witches they can suppress familiar reproduction from. It's called heroism because only "heroic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Sayaka and Mami engage in this, whereas "pragmatic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Homura (kinda) and Kyouko do not.

S = rate at which witches are slain by Puellae Magi/Magical Girls. (as normal humans generally are unable to kill them)

Of note, with many sensible choices of parameters this model has stable solutions with more Witches than Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, as is apparently the case in the show.

Note that to scale this model up or down, one must modify the quadratic parameters K and S, as they are a result of density rather than absolute number. For each doubling of C (the only constant parameter), they must be halved.

[[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

:Rather fried at the moment, any chance you can run some simulations to get an idea how this model changes the population dynamics? - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 11:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

::I ran it through Excel a bunch of times before putting it up. There are some sets of parameters that result in quickly-attained (within 20 iterations) stable solutions that persist indefinitely. There are others for which everything generally goes nuts (the quadratic terms can result in more witches being killed than there are witches to kill, or more magical girls dying than there are magical girls to die) but these are an artifact of running the simulation discretely AFAIK. Familiar reproduction can result in apocalypse for sufficiently large F and sufficiently small H, but will be contained by I kicking in (though, again, there are issues with running this discretely). The important parts for the stability of the solution are the quadratic terms and the existence of I to curb apocalypse - H is only provided for completeness and accuracy. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 11:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

== See also ==

Experimental results are being discussed [[Talk:Matlab:Gradual dimming population model|here]] --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

== After the Finale ==

In the finale, Madoka "changed the fundamental laws of nature" by "wishing to remove magic girls before they ever become witches." In terms of our models, the essential effect of this wish removes B*M(t) component from our differential equations. Are there any model that are capable of provide for an sustainable W(t) (for magical creatures) population even when B*M(t) are removed? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:Why do you want to model the population dynamics after the ending, i.e. when one of the populations disappeared? Basically, even if QBe continues generating MSes (but he'd have no reason to since they wouldn't become witches), no MS would become a witch anymore, so in the end W(t) stays at zero and M(t) grows linearly, that's all. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
::I suppose you're right. There's nothing in the witch population model that carries over for magical creatures. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Just rewatched episode 12 (in fact, I paid attention to it for the first time), so I should correct myself: apparently, there are still Magical Girls in the new world, and they are still fighting, but this time MSes and "magical beast" do not interact in any other way than fighting each other. That looks like a regular Lotka-Volterra system to me. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Community talk:Population dynamics

2011-07-19T10:04:09Z

Magic9mushroom: Added a full model with proper dependencies for discussion

<div style="border:1px solid #c0c090;padding:10px;background:#FDFFEE;margin:-0.4em 0 0.6em;">'''Previous discussions are archived at''':
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Analysis]] (refined model analysis)
*[[Talk:Population dynamics/Archive 1]] (old discussions, up to Apr. 17th)
</div>

==Japanese translations==

Since quite a lot of our japanese colleagues seem to want a translation, here's what I found so far:
*[http://joeshishimaru.jugem.jp/?eid=2375]
*[http://nmori.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-446.html]
(comes directly from random tweets).<br>Hope it helps --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

==Simulations and graphs==
I feel that you should add the assumed numbers right above the graphs, because those will affect greatly how the graphs turn out, and I think that putting the numbers up front will enable readers to agree with your starting numbers first.[[Special:Contributions/220.255.2.142|220.255.2.142]] 13:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for the advice, adding it right now. Also, note that they are in the image's description field. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering, what are those numbers that appeared below the constants in the simulation tables? (<math>\textstyle{ {C \over {B+D} } }</math>, <math>\textstyle{C \left( {{B-K} \over {B+D}} \right)}</math>, ...). Maybe we should put somewhere what they represent, because as-is they're not really relevant ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

==Twitter and IRC corrections==
Along with the other tweets, I found this one that seemed interresting, but I'm not sure I understand it. Basically, they're saying the refined model only works when F+B+1-K>0?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=aibery|id=49153350415028224|japanese=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。|english=Refined modelで魔女が増加するのは F+B+1-K>0 の時だけのような気がするけど、たぶん私が間違ってるんだろう。discussionではmatrixまで用いられてて文系にはちとキツい。}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}

It might be nice to investigate it a little, or explain why it is the case if you know... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:48, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

:It is a stumbling block I located as well.
:In the case when M(t) > W(t), ΔW=(F+B-K)W, that is, change in witch population depends solely on the current population, modified by the constant (F+B-K). If F+B-K is negative, then ΔW is negative, and the population spirals downwards to zero, and M becomes a linear function Ct. The population dynamics breaks down. The only way to avoid this is if F+B-K is nonegative, but I am not certain how we can justify it, unless we call Kyuubey as a rational agent again. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
::Actually, it's just a logical consequence of our model. If we change the hypotheses so that soul gems dim over time, we should fall back to a working model. I wouldn't do it though, since there has been no proof of that in canon, and it means setting a model to show us what we want to show, instead of solving the inconsistency at its source. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
:::It's a interesting thought, with the refined modeled, the witch population either is always increasing or always decreasing, as long as it is smaller than the magical girls population. If we also include dimming, both populations has the additional potential to simulatenously stabilized, but also with the caveat that the witch population is less than the magical girls population. This implies that unlike the simple model, both refinements have significant dependence on actual variable values. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 14:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Another tweet I found but I don't understand. Basically, if I got it right, this person asked their professor to look into it and they have some ideas of corrections to make?

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=goodhuntstalker|id=50571505112846336|japanese=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ|english=これについて私が私淑する師匠は「tの函数だとおかしいところが出てくる？まあそのうち式も修正されるにちがいない」と。さすがフマクティとスケルトンの数について数学的証明をしただけの（ｒｙ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Interresting remark from the IRC: when a witch is killed, do her familiars disappear as well? (at least the ones that didn't achieve maturation). And the subsequent question: is it taken into account in our models? I'd say "yes" to both questions since <math>\Delta W = F * W(t) + ... </math>, but I'm not sure so external opinions would be welcome. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:There's no clean cut answer since we don't actually model the familiar population. I suppose the best interpretation is that since F*W(t) is dependent on witch numbers, all familiars die when their witch was killed. What if this isn't true? How can we adjust the model to account for this? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Damn my poor skills at japanese. Isn't this tweet saying something interresting? If anybody could translate it, or at least tell us if it says anything new ...

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59241793056813056|english=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい|japanese=れは凄いｗよくできてるｗが、あえて言えばこの状態遷移図は間違っている。魔女は殺されても魔法少女には戻らないので、状態遷移ＫはM(t)ではなくDeadに繋がっているべき。解析の式は正しい}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
:According to my Rikaichan skills, it says: ''This is great. Well done LOL, but I dare to say, the state change diagram seems wrong. Because witches are not turning back into magical girls upon death, the K state change should not link dead with M(t). The equations are correct.'' --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 19:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There's another tweet by the same author, with my <s>trans</s>guesslation attempt:
{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=KC_nishida|id=59246142113841153|english=If we put this analysis into practical use, at a given time ''t'', total amount of extracted energy equals an integral over that time t of: population of magical girls * probability of turning into a witch * amount of energy Kyubey extracts in a unit of time. In short, E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dt. It looks like a great source of energy, compared to a nuclear power plant.|japanese=この解析を応用すれば、時間ｔでの魔法少女の個体数×魔女への状態遷移確率×エネルギー抽出量でＱＢが時間当たりに抽出するエネルギー量、さらにそれを時間ｔで積分すれば、エネルギーの総抽出量が計算できるね。つまり、E=∫(M(t)*B*ΔE)dtだな。原発よりいいエネルギー源になりそうｗ}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
This time nothing interesting here. But translated just in case someone wonders what's there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 00:38, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
:Oh god, this can be done. Oh God! You're John Nash, right? I've been studying your equilibrium. To come up with something totally original the way you did... I've been developing a theory. I believe I can show that Galois extensions are covering spaces. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
::One of these days we're gonna discover the Theory of Everything if we go on like that ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yet another tweet that seems interresting, but to make it worse than usual I don't even have access to the jisho.org plugin, so I had to go with lolgoogle translate. Anyway, hopefully someone will understand what it says:

{{Tweet/Header}}
{{Tweet|user=nekosan|id=65036264247795712|english=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん|japanese=要するに自明なアトラクタに陥らない解集合に対応するパラメタ領域を探し求める試行を数限りなく繰り返したけど、結局は元の微分方程式に対応するdynamicsが書き換わることで解決が図られたというわけなんだな、たぶん}}
{{Tweet/Footer}}
--[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 20:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== Thoughts for exploration ==
If you were willing to use a more complicated simulation, here are some thoughts.
* First, you could model the fights themselves. Each fight would end in either a Win, Draw, or Loss for the magical girl. With a loss, the magical girl dies, requardless if the other combatant was a witch or a familiar. With a draw, the girl expends some energy, again reguardless of the opponent (and perhaps my be unable to fight for a couple of iterations). Winning is different though, as if the magical girl wins against a familiar, she still merely expends energy, while against a witch she's able to recharge. On the other hand, if a familiar has enough battles in its favor, it becomes a witch.
* Second, you can have the probabilities of each iteration feed back on themselves, with draws reducing the chances for future wins and wins increasing them.
* Third, you can make some assumptions about how long each girl has, from a bit a extrapolation. Something like each magical girl has 100 units of energy (life force) available when she makes the contract, and each fight uses up 10 units, and if she doesn't find an opponent, she uses up 1 unit. If a magical girl's enery runs out, she becomes a witch.
* Fourth, you can insert some randomness into each value to give some acknowledgement to the quirks of each fight. The only thing to determine is how likely it is for magical girls to fight witches and/or familiars in a given iteration. A simple way would be for a magical girl to have a 1% chance of finding a given witch or familiar, and check against all of them. You could assume that a magical girl could kill 1 enemy per iteration, or have that change with the number of victories she has.
* Fifth, you could stipulate that if a witch has a battle in its favor or doesn't fight a magical girl at all for that iteration, it generates a familiar.
* So, the change in population would be the net (summation) of all the fights between magical girls and familiars.
[[User:Kylone|Kylone]] 15:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:I think these changes will move this project beyond the realm of population modeling to life simulation. I think there's some interesting ideas here though: Is it proper for the modeling to assume that all MS and Witches have the same K, B, D, F rate, regardless of age? It's obvious from the show that [[Kyouko|veterans]] have higher survival rate than [[Sayaka|newbies]], and older [[Speculah:Walpurgis Night|witches]] are tougher than newer ones. It's possible to pseudo-account for this in modeling if we change the dependences not just on M[t] & W[t], but also on M[t-1] & W[t-1], how it will effect the outcome is not something I can possibly analyze by hand.
:: While we know that some witches are tougher than others, it doesn't necessarily correlate with age. For all we know, older witches get crazier and more self-absorbed and become less effective in combat. Oktavia von Seckendorff (Sayaka) seemed to be an unusually tough opponent (although her opponents in both episodes 9 and 10 probably weren't fighting their best), despite being only a day or two old and born from a young inexperienced magical girl. [[Special:Contributions/86.13.224.153|86.13.224.153]] 19:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Additionally, I'd like to point out an issue with the first point in the list. Familiars don't become Witches by winning fights, they "evolve" by eating a certain number of humans. I think the strength of a witch might also be partially dependent on the number of humans it has consumed, but also on a number of other factors, such as the strength of their curse (Sayaka), and the innate potential originally possessed by the magical girl(Madoka). Perhaps witches born from familiars are initially weaker than those born directly from magical girls, so their strength depends more on how many humans they've eaten than those whose grief seed came from a soul gem?[[User:Jorlem|Jorlem]] 20:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
:However, I think all of us that edits this page have been quite burnt out at this point to try out these changes, so don't expect any work on this for quite some time. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 16:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

:Actually, I like your approach. It's not really modeling (it's more like a live simulation as prima said), but it might be interresting to try, just out of curiosity. The main concern of your approach is that it relies on a lot of variables we have to extrapolate/think up. It's gonna be hard to find realistic values that give an interpretable result (just see the problems we already have with the time-based model ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that I have access to the "real" Matlab (not FreeMat) and Simulink, I'll try to make a more detailed analysis of the last model which we expected to be chaotic ... As soon as I find out how to use the min() function in Simulink's differential equations editor --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

== F, C, D/B are dynamic; Witches can be revived as necessary ==

* Familiar-to-witch conversion rate decreases as the number of witches relative to the number of humans increases due to competition for "food"/saturation in a city being reached.
* QB's recruitment rate is obviously situation-dependent as he'll only recruit as many magical girls as he needs. If there are many witches around he may recruit more. If there are few around he might recruit extremely instable girls who will turn into witches soon. And he will also try to keep the number of magical girls low to avoid an entire army of MGs marching around, that would get too much attention
* If there are plenty of witches around then MGs can also hunt for the weakest ones first to gather soulpower, thus decreasing their conversion rate (decreases B) and avoiding deaths (decreases D)

The system is not instable at all, it's self-regulating. If there are too many MG's QB can just stop recruiting and wait until they turn one way or another. He can also release one of his stored grief seeds and resurrect a witch by saturating the seed with additional grief. See episode 3.
If there are too many witches their self-replication via F gets decreases since they are competing for food, humans. --[[Special:Contributions/91.16.15.53|91.16.15.53]] 06:54, 28 March 2011 (BST)

== Zombies ==

Just realized that this could be slightly modified for zombies. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 04:34, 29 March 2011 (BST)
:Also vampires. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 08:30, 30 March 2011 (BST)
:You might be interested in this study on zombie population modeling: http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf [[User:Prima|Prima]] 03:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
::I also thought about zombie population modeling given the similarities between both models. I've been a little lazy lately (and busy with real-life stuff too) so I didn't take the time to go and look for the articles on the subject, but it was on my todo-list ... Maybe I'll try and adapt it one of these days if I find the time and motivation, just in case we get different results from what is already on the page. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

== Reaction Kinetics ==

* The speed of a reaction depends on the concentration of the reactants. Assuming that the distribution of both magical girls and witches are uniform, I think <math> - K \times M(t) \times W(t) </math> is a better model for the death of witches than either the simple model (<math> - K \times M(t) </math>) or the refined model (<math> - K \times \mathrm{Min}(W(t), M(t))</math>.) --[[Special:Contributions/24.23.181.131|24.23.181.131]] 01:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Amaki
::Gotta read up on rate equations, but I do think this is a valid refinement to the models. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 09:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

==Full pop dynamics model==

I came up with a model which I believe better predicts the actions of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, Witches, and Kyubey.

The model:

M(t+1) = M(t) + C + I*W(t) - B*M(t) - K*M(t)*W(t)

W(t+1) = W(t) + B*M(t) + F*(W(t)-H*M(t)) - S*M(t)*W(t)

Variables:

M(t) = number of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls alive at time t.

W(t) = number of Witches alive at time t.

Parameters:

C = number of girls who contract with Kyubey in a given area and time, as a base (this is needed to lift the populations from 0).

I = increment to number of girls who contract based on number of Witches (as encounters with witches are usually how he gets his claws in)

B = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls mature into Witches (largely independent of number of Witches, since the magic expended fighting them is regained by use of Grief Seeds)

K = rate at which Puellae Magi/Magical Girls are killed by Witches (only other Magical Girls and Witches have a hope of killing one thanks to their effective lichdom, and generally they avoid fighting each other - if you wanted you could add an additional quadratic term in M(t) to represent territorial rivalry)

F = rate at which Witches propagate due to familiars without the intervention of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls.

H = average heroism of Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, expressed as the number of witches they can suppress familiar reproduction from. It's called heroism because only "heroic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Sayaka and Mami engage in this, whereas "pragmatic" Puellae Magi/Magical Girls like Homura (kinda) and Kyouko do not.

S = rate at which witches are slain by Puellae Magi/Magical Girls. (as normal humans generally are unable to kill them)

Of note, with many sensible choices of parameters this model has stable solutions with more Witches than Puellae Magi/Magical Girls, as is apparently the case in the show.

Note that to scale this model up or down, one must modify the quadratic parameters K and S, as they are a result of density rather than absolute number. For each doubling of C (the only constant parameter), they must be halved.

[[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 10:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

== See also ==

Experimental results are being discussed [[Talk:Matlab:Gradual dimming population model|here]] --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 18:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

== After the Finale ==

In the finale, Madoka "changed the fundamental laws of nature" by "wishing to remove magic girls before they ever become witches." In terms of our models, the essential effect of this wish removes B*M(t) component from our differential equations. Are there any model that are capable of provide for an sustainable W(t) (for magical creatures) population even when B*M(t) are removed? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:Why do you want to model the population dynamics after the ending, i.e. when one of the populations disappeared? Basically, even if QBe continues generating MSes (but he'd have no reason to since they wouldn't become witches), no MS would become a witch anymore, so in the end W(t) stays at zero and M(t) grows linearly, that's all. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 17:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
::I suppose you're right. There's nothing in the witch population model that carries over for magical creatures. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 17:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
:::Just rewatched episode 12 (in fact, I paid attention to it for the first time), so I should correct myself: apparently, there are still Magical Girls in the new world, and they are still fighting, but this time MSes and "magical beast" do not interact in any other way than fighting each other. That looks like a regular Lotka-Volterra system to me. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 19:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)