https://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Aster+SelenePuella Magi Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T20:49:56ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.39.3https://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oriko_Magica&diff=14856Talk:Oriko Magica2011-05-23T06:27:32Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Changed Puella Magi to Magical Girl */</p>
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<div>Some latest news, just as an FYI: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-05-18/2-madoka-magica-side-story-manga-land-in-top-5 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 17:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:And yet, there were no raws out of Japan... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 14:43, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::? There were raws otherwise they wouldn't have gotten scanlated...plus the groups that did, released raws too. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:51, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I meant, they took quite a while, for something that sold that well. And IIRC, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, the raws only came when anonscans and Yurikai received their own copies. I had a little talk with KFY about this, and how manga raws are rarer because you have to destroy the manga to scan it, but still, doesn't explain why the only decent raws I saw around only came 4 days after release, and from outside of Japan... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:56, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Oh, now that you clarified your statement, the only correlation there is if a manga sells well you're more likely to have someone feeling generous about taking apart and scanning their manga. But it largely depends on whether someone is feeling that generous, which is a random factor so sometimes you get more obscure manga with steady scanlations because of a reliable source of raws versus more popular counterparts that see delays because the scanlators have to provide their own. The original Madoka manga was very unusual in that raws came out almost immediately. That isn't the case with most manga out there so it's not surprising that Oriko required scanlators to get their own copies. If they'd waited a few more days, someone else probably would have scanned in it. TBH, for a franchise that isn't primarily manga, Madoka gets some of the fastest translations I've seen. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 17:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Is that so? Uh... Oh well, live and learn. I am just getting into manga, courtesy of Madoka, and I guess I'm learning things just as I learned about anime subs and whatnot. Hell, [[Talk:Puella Magi Kazumi Magica|just look at the first topic here]]. I did think the average raw/scanlation time would be higher than anime, but not that much. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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[[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]], where have you found the information that Oriko is a sequel? All other sources seem to indicate it as a prequel...<br />
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--[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 11:32, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:This article seems to indicate that [http://animapple.blogspot.com/2011/04/madoka-madoka-magica-hasnt-finished.html it is], I am more surprised that no one seems to be worried that it will be centered around <u>"MAHOU SHOUJO HUNTING"</u> --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:39, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Well, "silently reaching Madoka Kaname bit by bit" doesn't settle anything. It may refer to Madokami, but it may also refer to the week between Homura's release from hospital and her transferring in to Mitakihara's school. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::This has all the workings of an hilarious translation error, RE: "mahou shoujo hunting".<br />
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Question: I would like to verify what the evidence was that Oriko was a prequel. As far as I know, it was pure speculation on the part of fans because at the time of its announcement, it was what fans thought would explain Mami and Kyouko being in it despite being dead (or on the way there) in the anime. Now that we've seen episode 12, we know that doesn't have to be the case. So I'm not sure why the default mentality is "it's a prequel unless proven otherwise." Normally one thinks of a continuation/spin-off as being sequential to the original work, unless specifically stated otherwise.<br />
:There was some scan (the original link 404ed, and I'm too lazy to search for it elsewhere) with a comment by Mura Kuroe, reading 「およそ一般的な魔法少女らしからぬ佐倉杏子や衡撃的な殉職をした巴マミに、アニメとはまた違った角度からスポットを当てたり、オリジナルキャラが出てきたりと、かなり自由にやらせていただいております。現段階ではまだ何もお話できませんが(笑)、アニメを観終えた方がもっと『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』ワールドを楽しめる、観てない方は最初からアニメを観てみたくなる、そんなコミックスに出来るようがんばりますので楽しみにしていてください。」 (I actually retyped it some time ago for MAL, so that's how I have the text). What I was able to understand from it is that the manga will show Kyouko and Mami from different perspectives, will feature original characters and will be approaching the Madoka universe in a quite liberal way. It was clearly understood at the time (after ep8 - Mami had died long ago, and Kyouko was speculated to die soon, which actually happened) that it means a prequel, but yeah, now that Mami and Kyouko are back in a way, it's not that clear. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:03, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It was also subtly implied in the anime that Mami and Kyouko had some sort of shared backstory in the past, and it was thought that Oriko would cover that period. Before the synopsis was released, the description said it would cover an event that was not in the anime, which could suggest a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I can't see it ''not'' covering their shared past, but that can be done in the form of a flashback, as it's been suggested. I don't discard any possibility at the moment. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:33, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Better Translation? ==<br />
<br />
I have reason to think that both translations listed on this page contain important errors. The "Translation of Official Site" comes from [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/oriko/ here], but it seems to mention ''both'' Madoka and Homura (based off looking for the characters for "Homura"). But more importantly, when I put the text from [http://houbunsha.co.jp/comics/detail.php?p=%CB%E2%CB%A1%BE%AF%BD%F7%A4%AA%A4%EA%A4%B3%A1%F9%A5%DE%A5%AE%A5%AB here] into an online translator, the last two lines actually appear to be the two English lines seen [http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4832240161/ on the cover here] (click and zoom in on the upper left. Granted, it looks like it's badly translated English, but still). Could anyone re-translate these? (I have no capability of translating Japanese). -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I took a shot at translating the little text that's available, and while I don't have a complete set yet, I was able to pinpoint some problems. For example, the "Who could be the girl that stands in front of Mami and Kyouko?" could be better expressed as "Who in the world is this young girl standing before Mami and Kyouko...?" (''Mami to Kyouko no mae ni tatazumu kono otome wa ittai...?'') The "magical girl hunting" bit is also vague in English, whereas in Japanese I'm pretty sure that it clearly refers to "the hunting activities of magical girls," rather than "the hunting ''of'' magical girls." It's difficult for me since I'm not well-versed in the language, but I'll try to help out! [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:14, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Er, going back to the "hunting" part, since that's apparently what a lot of people are concerned about: it's "mahou shoujo kari." When discussing, say, a fox hunt in Japanese, you write "kitsune kari." I guess the white-robed "magical beasts" are going on a hunt? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:26, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi, I'm an owner of the animapple blog. I also think calling this manga sequel is a bit to far-fatched from the information currently given. Before this synopsis being released, the only information we had was; 'Oriko Magica will be looking at other character's story in different perspective'. Thus, there are two possibilities; 1. The idea of 'prequel' was all trolling and this is indeed sequel, as that synopsis was posted 'AFTER' the airing of last episode, 2. It is prequel from untold loop by homura. <br />
<br />
However, I still consider my translation to be accurate. 2ch's response justified that it is indeed 'magical girls being hunted', not 'magical girls hunting'. <br />
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I give you another fact that improves possibility of this being sequel. [http://i.imgur.com/u1ikn.jpg This concept design] by animator of MadoMagi instructs to make Homura look like 'villain' and mahou beast thing to be look like a 'good guy'. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 06:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Vol 2 cover ==<br />
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Oriko vol 2 cover is flying around, though I can't find a bigger version.<br> - This is now taken care of, going to resize the image to reduce space. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:56, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
[[File:Oriko 2 cover small.jpg|thumb]]<br><br />
I think this is definitive proof it is not a prequel, given that Homura has no glasses. Who the hell are those two in the back, though? Guess we'll have to wait to find out... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 15:49, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:But if this is not a prequel, then what the hell is Madoka doing on the cover? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:20, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It's either troll, metaphor, or real. You cannot judge anything from it. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 16:24, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Symbolism, I guess? She is being hugged by Homura, after all... <br>Anyway, that's the reason I said it wasn't a prequel, and not that it was a sequel. It might also be during the events of the anime, or in one of Homura's timelines, but those two girls in the back... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::It's most likely a fake cover, since a) it doesn't show up on Amazon, b) it doesn't make sense that the second cover would be released while the first volume's publication is still over a week away, and c) the art style is completely different, from the proportions to the coloring. Mura Kuroe couldn't have improved ''that'' much, unless the whole ''Oriko'' series is actually going to be drawn by different artists. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 16:30, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::That picture reminds me of a troll description on 2ch [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10]<br />
:::::"Kyouko Sakura who searches for a (fated?) white Puella Magi; Mami Tomoe, who confronts the culpit of the "Puella Magi Hunting", a black Puella Magi; and Homura Akemi, who does nothing but protect Madoka Kaname's peace. [...] Which would be, one time axis that already passed." --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::<s>Seems I was fooled, then. Bleh</s> Or not. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:50, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::: [http://www.madoka-magica.com/books/02.html It's from the official website.] I thought everyone knew about this already.--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:12, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Sorry for getting confused. (Seriously, though, the cover looks like somebody on 2ch grabbed some fanart from Pixiv, slapped some red circles and the logo on it, then released the thing to the internet.) The artist is still listed as "Mura Kuroe," so is he going to be using different art styles for the series? Did someone else produce the cover illustration? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 20:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I think the problem is that we only have a very small image to go on. If we had a larger image we could probably make something out. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:57, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
What I called a troll description earlier is now on Amazon, apparently for Oriko's [http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4832240366/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=466449256&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=4832240161&pf_rd_m=AN1VRQENFRJN5&pf_rd_r=1BEP78DP2S2ZFHBX190C second volume.] So is it real after all?<br />
::Well I checked the 2ch source [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10] and it points to [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/comics/] as its source which is a reputable seller. I checked and it has the same synopsis as Amazon. So I'd consider it legit. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:大ヒットオリジナルTVアニメ「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」の全編描き下ろしスピンオフコミック、完結巻!<br />
:因縁の白い魔法少女を探す佐倉杏子、魔法少女狩りの犯人、黒い魔法少女と対峙する巴マミ、ただひたすらに、鹿目まどかとの平穏を守ろうとする暁美ほむら。<br />
:交わることのないはずの3人の魔法少女が『織莉子』の手によって螺旋状に運命を束ねられていく。<br />
:それは、彼女たちの存在を試す物語――。<br />
:それは、過ぎ去ったひとつの時間軸――。 <br />
:: "One time axis" might mean that it takes place in one of the alternate timelines. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 23:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Someone on /a/ provided this basic summary translation. Someone else has verified this translation as accurate enough.<br />
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::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica".<br />
::*Kyouko searching for some white magical girl<br />
::*Mami confronting a black magical girl who's the criminal behind the "magical girl hunting"<br />
::*Homura protecting Madoka<br />
::*The path of those three magical girls weren't supposed to cross and [something about Oriko and fate]<br />
::*A story where their existence is tested<br />
::*The story of a passed time line <br />
::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica". --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Prequel/Sequel Debate ==<br />
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Should probably move this to a new section. Anyway:<br />
<br />
*Point A: "It can't be a prequel, the cover of Vol 2 shows Homura, not Moemura."<br />
**Sadly doesn't mean much. It could still be a prequel that happens in the one week we don't see before episode 1, and the cover is just a metaphor for what Homura is doing, and not something that will actually happen in the manga. The cover could also just be that: a cover, and have little to do with the story.<br />
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*Point B: "It can't be a sequel, Homura's not wearing Madoka's ribbons."<br />
**She doesn't start wearing the ribbons until after the "Sayaka vanishes" point in the timeline. This could also be the point where she starts remembering Madoka too. Therefore it doesn't really mean anything. Also once again, cover could just be a cover.<br />
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*Point C: "It's centered on Kyouko and Mami, so it has to be a prequel."<br />
**Could be. Could also just be set in the new setting where they are clearly working together.<br />
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Feel free to add points and counterpoints as necessary. However, I feel that right now we haven't been given anything conclusive about whether it's a prequel, sequel, or an outright alt-u. Until we see a Witch/Grief Seed or a Demon/Grief... Cube?, it would be better not to assume anything. It might mislead people and create false hopes.<br />
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I'll add pro-sequel points:<br />
* 1) Sayaka is the only major character missing in both Oriko covers and descriptions. This is an odd absence in prequel where you have Madoka and Homura present (meaning it couldn't be a time prior to Sayaka's introduction, as she's friends with Madoka). However, her absence would make sense in a sequel where Sayaka's died in episode 12. <br />
* 2) The introduction of new girls and the description of the manga as having a new plot-line with the "hunting of magical girls" seems to me like quite a bit of information you have to hand-wave to explain that all happened involving the major cast characters, and never get mentioned in the anime. Whereas it would fit for a continuation or spin-off without problems, especially since episode 12 makes it clear magical girls still exist, still fight, but things are different and a sequel could explain how.<br />
* 3) Normally if a manga is a prequel, that's mentioned in the advertisement. The fact it isn't leads me to believe that the publisher expects us to believe the default view: that a manga is a sequel or in this case, a spin-off, that follows that original body of work.<br />
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:I will take a third option and say it will be set after anime events, but it will fill in backstory from ''before'' the anime events through flashbacks, thus letting it function as both a sequel and a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Based on the translated manga of Oriko Magica, there is a part where Madoka appeared and called Homura. She mentioned that Sayaka is waiting for her. Thus, I would probably say that Point A and Point B is totally out. I suspect that this manga is not a prequel, nor a sequel. Probably another spin-off which is not really related to the original story, as what we really believe. The reasons are:<br />
::*1) Madoka and Sayaka never walk home together with Homura in the manga or the anime as far as I recall. Homura never got close to Madoka in the original work unlike this Oriko Magica's Homura who is willing to go back with her.<br />
::*2) Charlotte was defeated by Mami. <br />
::*3) Sayaka and Madoka seems like they knew nothing about Mami, witches and Puella Magi. <br />
::*4) Mami knew about Homura being a Puella Magi. In the manga or anime, Mami first met Homura when she was hunting for Kyuubey. --[[User:Demonicslayer|Demonicslayer]] 17:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::From what we see in the first 3 chapters, the only place Oriko fits is as one of the timelines Homura goes through between timeline 4 and timeline 5, so I'm putting it there on [[Timeline]].[[User:KM|KM]] 18:52, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: Actually, it could as well fit between T3 and T4. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:08, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Timeline 4 is shown right after the soul gem shooting with Homura looking horrified and starting her monologue about how nobody will accept the future. From her behavior, I think it's safe to assume 4 is immediately after 3 and it's the first time she fixed her eyes and hair. [[User:KM|KM]] 20:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Advertisement ==<br />
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Not sure if this is known, but here is an advertisement for the three next books:<br />
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http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/tokuho/<br />
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「魔法少女おりこ☆マギカ」第1巻 原案:Magica Quartet 漫画:ムラ黒江<br />
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TVアニメでは描かれない杏子の、マミの、そしてほむらとまどかのもうひとつの戦い。<br />
交わっていなかったはずの彼女たちを結びつけていたのは—「魔法少女狩り」!?<br />
コミカライズ版「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」同様に全編描き下ろしで贈るもうひとつの「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」!!<br />
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Here, "magical girl hunt" is in quotes. -- [[Special:Contributions/84.134.5.236|84.134.5.236]] 00:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==First 8 pages release==<br />
Since there are witches, this is at least in part a prequel. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 00:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
* It's either a prequel or an interquel, taking place during the series. It's amazing how much this series fooled us. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 00:16, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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****first chapter has been translated [http://www.yurikai.com/releases/16760 here] --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Story Summary from Japanese Wiki ==<br />
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Story summary from Japanese wiki<br />
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美国織莉子はキュゥべえと契約し魔法少女となったが、自らの魔法の力で見滝原の将来の惨状を目の当たりにする。その光景の中で見た一人の少女に着目し、キュゥべえに「とてもいい魔法少女の素体がいる」と告げる。<br />
<br />
一方、見滝原にやってきて魔女を倒した杏子は、両親が魔女に殺された少女、千歳ゆまと出会う。孤児になったゆまは杏子になつき、杏子もゆまをかつての自分を見るようになる。<br />
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そうした中、見滝原では魔法少女が魔法少女によって殺される「魔法少女狩り」が横行していた。この事件に杏子とゆま、見滝原を守るために戦うマミ、まどかが魔法少女にならないよう寄り添うほむら、魔法少女たちが巻き込まれることになる。<br />
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Translation:<br />
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Oriko Mikuni made contract with QB and became a mahou shoujo (MS). Using her magical power she could see the ruins of the city in future. She started to notice a young girl in her vision of the ruinous future city, and commented to QB that the girl had the material to make a very good MS.<br />
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On the other hand, Kyouko came to the city to defeat witches, and she encountered Yuma Chitose, a young girl whose parents were killed by a witch. Yuma, now an orphan, became attached to Kyouko, and Kyouko also started to see her younger self in Yuma.<br />
<br />
And around this time, in the city there were frequent happenings of "mahou shoujo hunting" in which one MS was killed by another MS. And the characters including the pair of Kyouko and Yuma, Mami who fought for the peace of the city, Homura whose sole purpose was to prevent Madoka from turning into a MS, and of course Oriko, all got drawn into this "hunt". <br />
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Also: From the Japanese wiki, a mention of a new girl Kirika who seems to be a follower of Oriko and helped her when she transformed into a MS. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 18:08, 12 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:Spoiler: Oriko is a corrupt word for Oracle. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:19, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==Fan Gallery with actual Manga Pages ==<br />
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This [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_disfuntional_family.png] and this [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_fancy_hotel_bath_house.png] are actual manga pages with english translation. Should we just leave them on the fan gallery anyway? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 23:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If we're going to have them,I would put them in the normal gallery, since they're official images, even if they've been translated. They're not demonstrating anything, though, so I would hesitate to have them on the page at all. It's on that grey-zone re:copyright. --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 00:36, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:It's not the image itself, it's the humorous commentary like "Yuma, hasnt anyone taught you not to go to fancy hotels with strangers?" is separated so say someone with limited understanding of English and hasn't read Oriko doesn't accidently think that Yuma is going into a hotel with a stranger (and all the negative implications associated with that). It's clearly fan humor and that's why it goes in the fan gallery. =[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 00:39, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==Information Box==<br />
*Should we have an information box like date of publishing, the illustrators, the publishers, info. etc? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:00, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Changed Puella Magi to Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
In short: "Mahou Shoujo" is Japanese. "Puella Magi" is Latin. "Magical Girl" is English. Given this is written in English, I opted for the third choice. If we're going with Puella Magi for the site overall, may I ask why we're using Latin instead of English? I think you're all aware of the "mahou shoujo" vs. "puella magi" debate. In short, "puella magi" is used in the logo. However, in Japanese, the title, the anime dialogue, and what's written in manga, it's always "mahou shoujo." Personally, I think using the English translation of "magical girl" is the best way to circumvent the issue outside of references to titles, e.g. "Puella Magi Oriko Magica" the manga has the titular character Oriko, who is a magical girl. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:My personal, (very) biased opinion is simple: "magical girl" is kind of... empty and meaningless. Whereas here, unlike in other anime/manga, they actually went out and gave them a worthy title. I think they intended on having us use it in English, but that's speculation, of course. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 08:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Fact is, this debate has been going on for ages (basically since gg released the first episode, i.e. Jan. 6) and no consensus has ever been reached. <br />
:*The pro-"Puella Magi" base their argument on that "it's in the title so it's official" (plus it's been used in the Madoka Café as a translation for 魔法少女). <br />
:*The pro-"Magical Girl" say that "nobody ever says that in canon; they say "mahou shoujo" which translates in English to "magical girl", and we speak English, not Latin". <br />
:Since there was no agreement whatsoever, we use both translation indifferently on this wiki. I feel personally more inclined to using "Magical Girl" ("Puella Magi" may be in the title, but it's like the name of the franchise), but since the [[Glossary]] says Puella Magi, I tried to use it instead out of consistency. I do not think we should force the use of one or the other, unless we wanna start another endless argument (to not say "shitstorm").<br>tl;dr you can use whichever you want, and revert things if you want, as long as it doesn't end up in an edit war --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::OK, that was my question to see if there was some kind of consensus as to what to use. Both terms being used interchangeable is fine. It's not like terms haven't been used interchangeable for other anime in the genre like "Cure" for PreCure or "Sailor Senshi" for Sailor Moon (both of which, unlike Madoka, use those terms in anime and manga dialogue). For people who are fans of the magical girl genre, there is nothing wrong with the use of "magical girl," as it is used commonly for very popular series like CCS and Nanoha. It's no different than calling someone like Batman a superhero. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Adding my two cents here that one of the striking things about Madoka is how they intentionally keep things simple. None of the girls use a special name for themselves after they transform...no, "Sailor Moon" or "Cure Blossom." They stick to their civilian names which are ordinary Japanese names. The choice feels deliberate, like saying any girl could be asked to contract. Also, aside from Mami, none of them name their special attacks but simply go about their business. They also only refer to themselves as "mahou shoujo" which is the garden-variety, commonly used term "magical girl." So sticking with the use of ordinary terms, in my opinion, is suitable for an anime that seems to make a point of using deliberately simple names. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am flexible to either terms until Urobuchi tells us otherwise. Personally I prefer Puella Magi to separate Madoka from the usual Magical Girl genre, because this is not your typical magical girl show. When I think Mahou Shoujo, I think sailor moon, pretty cure, etc. Nanoha is kind of the same but with gundams but still retain some of that formula, and the idea that magical girls are girls of justice and that idealistic view of the world. In contrast that is not the case in Madoka. This is Urobuchi's world and it is at odds with that view. Which is why I see it that way. That is my personal view, I am not trying to push this view on others. I am reminded of the feud with Star Trek fans: Trekkies vs Trekkers. I just say, just get over it and just be flexible about it until we get [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod Word of God.] --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Seems like we're all on the same page with being flexible on the terms. The more I think about it, the less I care but for exactly the opposite reason the rest of you are giving, ironically. Because most magical girl franchises use a different term aside from magical girl. Sailor Moon "Senshi," Pretty Cure "Cure," Nanoha "Mage," etc. So having another term for magical girl is a common choice. I suppose then it's fine if it's the same for Madoka, even if it's a bit unusual that Puella Magi is never used in-universe in the anime or manga. The whole "gg" thing by the way was clearly their standard trolling. They know it annoys people when we see and hear "mahou shoujo" and rather than using that or magical girl, went with the Latin (and not even accurate Latin at that) term for fun. It's like seeing someone call Batman a "superhero" and some translator turns it into "Eximus Virito! (also wrong Latin) every time. Ah well. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 23:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::we cant forget that Puella Magi was probably done on purpose and there is an actual hidden meaning on that for those who dont know. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 00:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::If you mean from episode 8 at the end with QB, I never understood how people came up with it having to do with puella magi. What QB says is "mahou shoujo" and what he says only makes sense in context of that phrase, "since this country calls women who are still growing up shoujo (少女 girls), for girls who on the way of becoming majo (魔女 witches), it's logical to call them mahou shoujo (魔法少女 magical girls)". Anyways, I've yet to see SHAFT verify why they used bad Latin or the reason they used it aside from "it looks cool" just like the reason Gen googled Mami's final attack in different languages to come up with "Tiro Finale"...because it looked cool. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:32, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::: I thought it was because it can be interpreted as "girl [form] of the sorcerer", or a girl who is slaved to the sorcerer or something. Well, only SHAFT or Urobuchi knows for sure. It just adds to the mystery. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 01:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Just like when they made up that [[Amy|cat]] as a excuse to troll the viewers. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 01:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's been a while since I've taken my Latin, but reasoning that phrase requires some creativity because it doesn't make sense. The two words we have are: puella (girl-singular) and magi (male sorcerors/magicians/wise man-plural, as in the wise men who met with baby Jesus). If one tried to make the most sense of it, it'd probably be "girl of/from the male sorcerors" which still doesn't quite make sense in the context of the anime, you know? The QB/Madoka link would make more sense if it was puella magus or for magical girls in relation to QB, pullae magus or pullae magi if you're going with a race of Incubators. That's why I kind of go...bad Latin, makes no sense! --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: This reminds me of some rumors regarding Kyubey's "boss", because of the interpretation regarding Puella Magi, many suspected Kyubey was just a hell spawn pet from hell doing the work of the real villain or something, perhaps Puella Magi was a Red Herring to mess up with us? I feel like they like to troll us on everything. Maybe I am starting to sound like a raving mad lunatic with a tinfoil hat. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 05:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Latin 'magi' is not just the masculine plural of 'magus'; it can also be the genitive masculine (and neuter; recall that Kyubey might not have a gender) singular. Hence, 'of the sorceror'. [[Special:Contributions/175.141.163.175|175.141.163.175]] 06:40, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::This to me sounds like a case of trying to fit the word to the justification and not the other way around. "Magus" is the singular, "Magi" is the plural in Latin. Magi is also quite notable as the term used to describe the three wise men in the Bible who met Mary and baby Jesus, which is why it strikes me as particularly odd someone would try to use a far more obscure use of it as gender neutral singular. I don't buy Japan being quite that savvy in Latin. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 06:50, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:As a Latin student, I will back up any Latin-related statements, and I will say that "Puella Magi" likely had some thought put into it due to its grouping with "Magica", given that "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" (Magical Girl Madoka of the Mage) completely checks out grammar-wise, something difficult to do without some thought. That said, however, I prefer magical girl. Why? They simply don't ever say "Puella Magi" in the series. Ever. It's given in official outside-universe material, but that's exactly it: outside material (for heaven's sake, it was in a bathroom and a card in a cafe). A wiki refers to in-universe material, in which they always use magical girl. Let alone the fact that "Puella Magi" might even refer specifically to girls like Madoka, Oriko, Kazumi rather than magical girls in general (thus saying the customers are special). "Puella Magi" could mean anything, and we don't know what on earth it is supposed to refer to, while a magical girl is a magical girl and you can't change that. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 00:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::You're right that with the rest of the title, it makes sense. Taking out the phrase "Puella Magi" makes it nonsensical. If anything, it should be "Puella Magica" as the correct Latin for "magical girl," but no one sees inclined to do that. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, it's not ''nonsensical'' per se, it does have a legit meaning of "girl of the mage", which is why everyone sees fit to use it. However, I do not see it as a replace-all for "magical girl" as easily as others might make it seem. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 06:27, 23 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Speculah: Oriko's plan==<br />
I think it is too early to speculate but I just wanted to point out some information that I have gathered as well as some pieces that I have thought about. So the manga confirms that "Magical Girl Hunting" is actually the literal translation of hunting Magical Girls, not about a documentary of the lives of Magical Girls hunting witches. So for some reason Oriko thinks that killing Puella Magi/Magical Girls is part of the solution, but solution to what? What I can gather is that she wants to stop Walpurgis Night. She has accepted her fate and knows she will become a witch, but what drives her?. What is Oriko's goal? It seems to be tied to her father's dream [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_family_portrait.png]. But what was his dream exactly? Ch 3 shows a young Oriko who wants to maintain the peace and make people happy, perhaps that is why she wants to defend the city. But since it is too early to tell this is just an speculation, not until we find more information.<br />
<br />
Now as to why is Oriko killing magical girls. It makes no sense practically. The more magical girls she kills the more Kyubey would replace, this would be a minor setback but considering the possibility that the whole planet has Puella Magi, and not just Japan she cant stop or sabotage Kyubey's plans and I dont think that is her objective. So what else could it be? One of the theories regarding Walpurgis Night is that Walpurgis Night is a gathering of witches and one of the theories is that Walpurgis Night is formed from the amalgamation of several Witches. If this is true she could be targeting magical girls who she suspects will transform into witches who would become part of Walpurgis Night, this is just a possibility. I am reminded of Homura's data on her home and her analysis wall, perhaps Homura at one point she had the same idea but scraped it for whatever reason (perhaps Homura is not a cold blood killer). Again, just speculation and no solid evidence to confirm this, but it cold explain why Oriko is hunting other magical girls. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think there is a flaw in Oriko's plan, if that is her plan, if she kills a magical girl before she becomes a Witch, wont another Witch could take her place? Sounds like a game of whack-a-mole. Then there is Yuma, still no clues why she is essential to Oriko's plan. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
about the timeline:<br />
it is after mami snapped, isn´t it? homure doesn´t turst mami and doesn´t want madoka to make contact with anyone so she won´t become a magical girl<br />
:Likely so. The first three timelines from ep 10 can be assumed to be continuous: however, timelines 4 and 5, not so much. Most think Oriko (as well as any possible additional timeline) takes place between T4 and T5. I personally think it's between T3 and T4, but whatever the case, yes, it would be after that.<br>But the most obvious clue would be that Homura is not Moemura :P --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 11:24, 22 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::This is assuming there are no more additional timelines after T5, but nothing says there cant be. It is impossible to tell how many timelines Homura created since we are assuming only the ones we observed. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 11:40, 22 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Timeline 5 is the one where Madoka becomes a god, so anything after that would have no witches. That does make the "5" pretty nonsensical, but "Timeline 5" was already in widespread use by the time we got strong evidence, so it can't be helped. Maybe someday we're going to end up with genderswapped Oriko timeline 4.3.1-0.27b or something. [[User:KM|KM]] 13:25, 22 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Actually, there are some people who think the final scenes in ep 10 are not from the "final" timeline, as Homura doesn't back down in ep 1 like she did. I believe Mutopis was referring to that. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::[[Timeline]] The last reset shown in episode 10 isn't what "Timeline 5" is based on. The name comes from the [[:Image:Ep10_timeline_chart.jpg | chart some anon made right after ep10 aired]], which defines Timeline 5 as the one episodes 2-9 take place in. Since this is pretty crazy, I think I'm going to go add a numbering standard for extra timelines. [[User:KM|KM]] 13:54, 22 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Honestly, we don't know what other timelines there are within the continuity of the anime, so the numbering system is correct as far as we know. It's possible there's more but we don't know for certain either way. Remember Oriko is a different source and is considered a spin-off and volume 2's description includes "the path of those three magical girls weren't supposed to cross." So there's a possibility that it's an alternative continuity that is separate from the anime, e.g. this timeline never happened to the anime characters. For naming purposes, we can call it the Oriko TL and describe it as seemingly set after TL 3 of the anime. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 14:23, 22 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Oriko_Mikuni&diff=14632Oriko Mikuni2011-05-21T00:53:40Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Trivia */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Oriko Mikuni<br />
|image=<center>[[File:OrikoCharacterPage01.png]]</center><br />
|jname=美国 織莉子 (Mikuni Oriko) <br />
}}<br />
{{Nihongo|'''Oriko Mikuni'''|美国 織莉子|Mikuni Oriko}} is the titular character from [[Oriko_Magica|Puella Magi Oriko Magica]]. She is a magical girl with the ability to forsee the future.<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
Oriko's ability to forsee the future gained her the understanding that magical girls can become witches, and because of that, a terrible future could await the city. Due to that vision, as well as her upbringing as the daughter of a politician, Oriko feels responsible to prevent that possible future, at all costs. Oriko smiles as she lies to Yuma, to manipulate the young girl into contracting with Kyubey. She convinces her close friend Kirika to do the dirty work of killing other magical girls. Oriko feels those means are justified by her end goal of protecting the peace she has achieved in her life with [[Kirika]], as well as bringing peace to the world. She seems to be highly influenced by her political family in her ability to exercise Machiavellian tactics with much personal charisma, all for the sake of a lofty goal. <br />
<br />
Oriko shows a gentler side in her personal nature with her close friend Kirika. She enjoys teasing Kirika, but deep down, Oriko cares greatly for her. She'll even let Kirika sleep in her lap after a battle. Oriko also shows devotion to her family, from when she was a little child helping out her father in his campaigns to now doing what she can to help make her father's dream of a peaceful world come true.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
Oriko contracted with [[Kyubey]] for a currently unknown wish. When testing out her magic for the first time, we cannot see Oriko's exact vision, but it's strongly implied that she sees [[Mitakihara_Town|Mitakihara Town]] in ruins equivalent to the destruction caused by [[Walpurgis_Night|Walpurgisnacht]] (as seen in Madoka's dream in [[Episode 1]] of the anime). Oriko knows that the witch has to be stopped, but it's much too strong for her to face. She is then struck by another vision and it is implied that she sees a vision of a girl, perhaps [[Yuma]], who can stop the witch. She tells Kyubey that this girl is a great [[Puella_Magi|Puella Magi]] candidate.<br />
<br />
She appears again when [[Kyouko]] has gone to fight a witch, leaving Yuma behind at their hotel room. She speaks to Yuma and suggests that Kyouko may already be dead, playing on Yuma's fear of being alone. Yuma rushes off to find her friend, leading to a chain reaction of events that ends with her becoming contracted. Kyouko swears she's going to make Oriko pay for making Yuma into a magical girl.<br />
<br />
In a flashback, it's revealed that Oriko is the daughter of a politician, Hisaomi Mikuni. As a young child, she helped him in his campaign. Now she wants to make his dream of bringing peace to the city, and then to the world, come true.<br />
<br />
While in her father's rose garden, she and [[Kirika]] prepare to have tea. A witch attacks them, and as Kirika fights it, Oriko prepares the tea. Kirika ends up smashing their table and ruining it, so the two just sit together, Kirika resting in Oriko's lap. Oriko comments, "If you weren't here, I would be really broken," to the sleeping Kirika, and then seems to have another vision. This tells her that she's going to have to ask Kirika to fight again, to "protect [their] world."<br />
<br />
==Powers, Weapons & Abilities==<br />
Oriko's powers manifest as the ability to see into the future.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
*Despite being the titular character, Oriko is not featured on the first volume cover of [[Oriko_Magica|Oriko Magica]].<br />
*Oriko means "weaver girl", and sounds similar to Oracle. The first character for Mikuni (美) means "beauty", while the second one (国) means "country". Read differently and using an alternate reading, Mikuni can refer to 未来に (miku ni), meaning "to the future".<br />
*A number of fans have noted similarities between Oriko and Touhou Project characters [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Maribel_Han Marbiel Han] and [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo Yukari Yakumo].<br />
*Kirika and Oriko are exactly 121 days and 3 hours apart in age. Oriko is the older of the two.<br />
<br />
==Speculation==<br />
*It is likely that Hisahomi is not her birth father, as she mentions her "mother and father in heaven".<br />
*It is suspected that with her power to see the future she has learned the truth behind the Puella Magi system; maybe she saw her own fate where she becomes a witch.<br />
*It is speculated that Oriko {{Spoiler|will become one of the witches seen in the anime; candidates include Gertrud, Elsa Maria and Walpurgis Night}}.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery position="center" captionalign="left"><br />
File:Oriko_Magica_Sample_Fantranslated.jpg|Oriko using her magic for the first time.<br />
File:OrikoCasulaDress.png|Oriko in her normal clothes.<br />
File:ChildOriko01.png|Oriko as a child.<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==Fanart==<br />
{{fanart}}<br />
<gallery position="center" captionalign="left"><br />
File:Orikomikuni-fanart01.jpg<br />
File:Oriko and kyubey01.jpg<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oriko_Magica&diff=14631Talk:Oriko Magica2011-05-21T00:50:18Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Changed Puella Magi to Magical Girl */</p>
<hr />
<div>Some latest news, just as an FYI: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-05-18/2-madoka-magica-side-story-manga-land-in-top-5 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 17:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:And yet, there were no raws out of Japan... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 14:43, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::? There were raws otherwise they wouldn't have gotten scanlated...plus the groups that did, released raws too. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:51, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I meant, they took quite a while, for something that sold that well. And IIRC, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, the raws only came when anonscans and Yurikai received their own copies. I had a little talk with KFY about this, and how manga raws are rarer because you have to destroy the manga to scan it, but still, doesn't explain why the only decent raws I saw around only came 4 days after release, and from outside of Japan... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:56, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Oh, now that you clarified your statement, the only correlation there is if a manga sells well you're more likely to have someone feeling generous about taking apart and scanning their manga. But it largely depends on whether someone is feeling that generous, which is a random factor so sometimes you get more obscure manga with steady scanlations because of a reliable source of raws versus more popular counterparts that see delays because the scanlators have to provide their own. The original Madoka manga was very unusual in that raws came out almost immediately. That isn't the case with most manga out there so it's not surprising that Oriko required scanlators to get their own copies. If they'd waited a few more days, someone else probably would have scanned in it. TBH, for a franchise that isn't primarily manga, Madoka gets some of the fastest translations I've seen. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 17:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Is that so? Uh... Oh well, live and learn. I am just getting into manga, courtesy of Madoka, and I guess I'm learning things just as I learned about anime subs and whatnot. Hell, [[Talk:Puella Magi Kazumi Magica|just look at the first topic here]]. I did think the average raw/scanlation time would be higher than anime, but not that much. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
------<br />
[[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]], where have you found the information that Oriko is a sequel? All other sources seem to indicate it as a prequel...<br />
<br />
--[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 11:32, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:This article seems to indicate that [http://animapple.blogspot.com/2011/04/madoka-madoka-magica-hasnt-finished.html it is], I am more surprised that no one seems to be worried that it will be centered around <u>"MAHOU SHOUJO HUNTING"</u> --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:39, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Well, "silently reaching Madoka Kaname bit by bit" doesn't settle anything. It may refer to Madokami, but it may also refer to the week between Homura's release from hospital and her transferring in to Mitakihara's school. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::This has all the workings of an hilarious translation error, RE: "mahou shoujo hunting".<br />
<br />
Question: I would like to verify what the evidence was that Oriko was a prequel. As far as I know, it was pure speculation on the part of fans because at the time of its announcement, it was what fans thought would explain Mami and Kyouko being in it despite being dead (or on the way there) in the anime. Now that we've seen episode 12, we know that doesn't have to be the case. So I'm not sure why the default mentality is "it's a prequel unless proven otherwise." Normally one thinks of a continuation/spin-off as being sequential to the original work, unless specifically stated otherwise.<br />
:There was some scan (the original link 404ed, and I'm too lazy to search for it elsewhere) with a comment by Mura Kuroe, reading 「およそ一般的な魔法少女らしからぬ佐倉杏子や衡撃的な殉職をした巴マミに、アニメとはまた違った角度からスポットを当てたり、オリジナルキャラが出てきたりと、かなり自由にやらせていただいております。現段階ではまだ何もお話できませんが(笑)、アニメを観終えた方がもっと『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』ワールドを楽しめる、観てない方は最初からアニメを観てみたくなる、そんなコミックスに出来るようがんばりますので楽しみにしていてください。」 (I actually retyped it some time ago for MAL, so that's how I have the text). What I was able to understand from it is that the manga will show Kyouko and Mami from different perspectives, will feature original characters and will be approaching the Madoka universe in a quite liberal way. It was clearly understood at the time (after ep8 - Mami had died long ago, and Kyouko was speculated to die soon, which actually happened) that it means a prequel, but yeah, now that Mami and Kyouko are back in a way, it's not that clear. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:03, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It was also subtly implied in the anime that Mami and Kyouko had some sort of shared backstory in the past, and it was thought that Oriko would cover that period. Before the synopsis was released, the description said it would cover an event that was not in the anime, which could suggest a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I can't see it ''not'' covering their shared past, but that can be done in the form of a flashback, as it's been suggested. I don't discard any possibility at the moment. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:33, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Better Translation? ==<br />
<br />
I have reason to think that both translations listed on this page contain important errors. The "Translation of Official Site" comes from [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/oriko/ here], but it seems to mention ''both'' Madoka and Homura (based off looking for the characters for "Homura"). But more importantly, when I put the text from [http://houbunsha.co.jp/comics/detail.php?p=%CB%E2%CB%A1%BE%AF%BD%F7%A4%AA%A4%EA%A4%B3%A1%F9%A5%DE%A5%AE%A5%AB here] into an online translator, the last two lines actually appear to be the two English lines seen [http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4832240161/ on the cover here] (click and zoom in on the upper left. Granted, it looks like it's badly translated English, but still). Could anyone re-translate these? (I have no capability of translating Japanese). -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I took a shot at translating the little text that's available, and while I don't have a complete set yet, I was able to pinpoint some problems. For example, the "Who could be the girl that stands in front of Mami and Kyouko?" could be better expressed as "Who in the world is this young girl standing before Mami and Kyouko...?" (''Mami to Kyouko no mae ni tatazumu kono otome wa ittai...?'') The "magical girl hunting" bit is also vague in English, whereas in Japanese I'm pretty sure that it clearly refers to "the hunting activities of magical girls," rather than "the hunting ''of'' magical girls." It's difficult for me since I'm not well-versed in the language, but I'll try to help out! [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:14, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Er, going back to the "hunting" part, since that's apparently what a lot of people are concerned about: it's "mahou shoujo kari." When discussing, say, a fox hunt in Japanese, you write "kitsune kari." I guess the white-robed "magical beasts" are going on a hunt? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:26, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi, I'm an owner of the animapple blog. I also think calling this manga sequel is a bit to far-fatched from the information currently given. Before this synopsis being released, the only information we had was; 'Oriko Magica will be looking at other character's story in different perspective'. Thus, there are two possibilities; 1. The idea of 'prequel' was all trolling and this is indeed sequel, as that synopsis was posted 'AFTER' the airing of last episode, 2. It is prequel from untold loop by homura. <br />
<br />
However, I still consider my translation to be accurate. 2ch's response justified that it is indeed 'magical girls being hunted', not 'magical girls hunting'. <br />
<br />
I give you another fact that improves possibility of this being sequel. [http://i.imgur.com/u1ikn.jpg This concept design] by animator of MadoMagi instructs to make Homura look like 'villain' and mahou beast thing to be look like a 'good guy'. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 06:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Vol 2 cover ==<br />
<br />
Oriko vol 2 cover is flying around, though I can't find a bigger version.<br><br />
[[File:Oriko 2 cover small.jpg]]<br><br />
I think this is definitive proof it is not a prequel, given that Homura has no glasses. Who the hell are those two in the back, though? Guess we'll have to wait to find out... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 15:49, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:But if this is not a prequel, then what the hell is Madoka doing on the cover? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:20, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It's either troll, metaphor, or real. You cannot judge anything from it. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 16:24, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Symbolism, I guess? She is being hugged by Homura, after all... <br>Anyway, that's the reason I said it wasn't a prequel, and not that it was a sequel. It might also be during the events of the anime, or in one of Homura's timelines, but those two girls in the back... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::It's most likely a fake cover, since a) it doesn't show up on Amazon, b) it doesn't make sense that the second cover would be released while the first volume's publication is still over a week away, and c) the art style is completely different, from the proportions to the coloring. Mura Kuroe couldn't have improved ''that'' much, unless the whole ''Oriko'' series is actually going to be drawn by different artists. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 16:30, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::That picture reminds me of a troll description on 2ch [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10]<br />
:::::"Kyouko Sakura who searches for a (fated?) white Puella Magi; Mami Tomoe, who confronts the culpit of the "Puella Magi Hunting", a black Puella Magi; and Homura Akemi, who does nothing but protect Madoka Kaname's peace. [...] Which would be, one time axis that already passed." --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::<s>Seems I was fooled, then. Bleh</s> Or not. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:50, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::: [http://www.madoka-magica.com/books/02.html It's from the official website.] I thought everyone knew about this already.--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:12, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Sorry for getting confused. (Seriously, though, the cover looks like somebody on 2ch grabbed some fanart from Pixiv, slapped some red circles and the logo on it, then released the thing to the internet.) The artist is still listed as "Mura Kuroe," so is he going to be using different art styles for the series? Did someone else produce the cover illustration? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 20:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I think the problem is that we only have a very small image to go on. If we had a larger image we could probably make something out. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:57, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
What I called a troll description earlier is now on Amazon, apparently for Oriko's [http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4832240366/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=466449256&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=4832240161&pf_rd_m=AN1VRQENFRJN5&pf_rd_r=1BEP78DP2S2ZFHBX190C second volume.] So is it real after all?<br />
::Well I checked the 2ch source [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10] and it points to [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/comics/] as its source which is a reputable seller. I checked and it has the same synopsis as Amazon. So I'd consider it legit. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:大ヒットオリジナルTVアニメ「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」の全編描き下ろしスピンオフコミック、完結巻!<br />
:因縁の白い魔法少女を探す佐倉杏子、魔法少女狩りの犯人、黒い魔法少女と対峙する巴マミ、ただひたすらに、鹿目まどかとの平穏を守ろうとする暁美ほむら。<br />
:交わることのないはずの3人の魔法少女が『織莉子』の手によって螺旋状に運命を束ねられていく。<br />
:それは、彼女たちの存在を試す物語――。<br />
:それは、過ぎ去ったひとつの時間軸――。 <br />
:: "One time axis" might mean that it takes place in one of the alternate timelines. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 23:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Someone on /a/ provided this basic summary translation. Someone else has verified this translation as accurate enough.<br />
<br />
::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica".<br />
::*Kyouko searching for some white magical girl<br />
::*Mami confronting a black magical girl who's the criminal behind the "magical girl hunting"<br />
::*Homura protecting Madoka<br />
::*The path of those three magical girls weren't supposed to cross and [something about Oriko and fate]<br />
::*A story where their existence is tested<br />
::*The story of a passed time line <br />
::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica". --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prequel/Sequel Debate ==<br />
<br />
Should probably move this to a new section. Anyway:<br />
<br />
*Point A: "It can't be a prequel, the cover of Vol 2 shows Homura, not Moemura."<br />
**Sadly doesn't mean much. It could still be a prequel that happens in the one week we don't see before episode 1, and the cover is just a metaphor for what Homura is doing, and not something that will actually happen in the manga. The cover could also just be that: a cover, and have little to do with the story.<br />
<br />
*Point B: "It can't be a sequel, Homura's not wearing Madoka's ribbons."<br />
**She doesn't start wearing the ribbons until after the "Sayaka vanishes" point in the timeline. This could also be the point where she starts remembering Madoka too. Therefore it doesn't really mean anything. Also once again, cover could just be a cover.<br />
<br />
*Point C: "It's centered on Kyouko and Mami, so it has to be a prequel."<br />
**Could be. Could also just be set in the new setting where they are clearly working together.<br />
<br />
Feel free to add points and counterpoints as necessary. However, I feel that right now we haven't been given anything conclusive about whether it's a prequel, sequel, or an outright alt-u. Until we see a Witch/Grief Seed or a Demon/Grief... Cube?, it would be better not to assume anything. It might mislead people and create false hopes.<br />
<br />
I'll add pro-sequel points:<br />
* 1) Sayaka is the only major character missing in both Oriko covers and descriptions. This is an odd absence in prequel where you have Madoka and Homura present (meaning it couldn't be a time prior to Sayaka's introduction, as she's friends with Madoka). However, her absence would make sense in a sequel where Sayaka's died in episode 12. <br />
* 2) The introduction of new girls and the description of the manga as having a new plot-line with the "hunting of magical girls" seems to me like quite a bit of information you have to hand-wave to explain that all happened involving the major cast characters, and never get mentioned in the anime. Whereas it would fit for a continuation or spin-off without problems, especially since episode 12 makes it clear magical girls still exist, still fight, but things are different and a sequel could explain how.<br />
* 3) Normally if a manga is a prequel, that's mentioned in the advertisement. The fact it isn't leads me to believe that the publisher expects us to believe the default view: that a manga is a sequel or in this case, a spin-off, that follows that original body of work.<br />
<br />
:I will take a third option and say it will be set after anime events, but it will fill in backstory from ''before'' the anime events through flashbacks, thus letting it function as both a sequel and a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::Based on the translated manga of Oriko Magica, there is a part where Madoka appeared and called Homura. She mentioned that Sayaka is waiting for her. Thus, I would probably say that Point A and Point B is totally out. I suspect that this manga is not a prequel, nor a sequel. Probably another spin-off which is not really related to the original story, as what we really believe. The reasons are:<br />
::*1) Madoka and Sayaka never walk home together with Homura in the manga or the anime as far as I recall. Homura never got close to Madoka in the original work unlike this Oriko Magica's Homura who is willing to go back with her.<br />
::*2) Charlotte was defeated by Mami. <br />
::*3) Sayaka and Madoka seems like they knew nothing about Mami, witches and Puella Magi. <br />
::*4) Mami knew about Homura being a Puella Magi. In the manga or anime, Mami first met Homura when she was hunting for Kyuubey. --[[User:Demonicslayer|Demonicslayer]] 17:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::From what we see in the first 3 chapters, the only place Oriko fits is as one of the timelines Homura goes through between timeline 4 and timeline 5, so I'm putting it there on [[Timeline]].[[User:KM|KM]] 18:52, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: Actually, it could as well fit between T3 and T4. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:08, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Timeline 4 is shown right after the soul gem shooting with Homura looking horrified and starting her monologue about how nobody will accept the future. From her behavior, I think it's safe to assume 4 is immediately after 3 and it's the first time she fixed her eyes and hair. [[User:KM|KM]] 20:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Advertisement ==<br />
<br />
Not sure if this is known, but here is an advertisement for the three next books:<br />
<br />
http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/tokuho/<br />
<br />
「魔法少女おりこ☆マギカ」第1巻 原案:Magica Quartet 漫画:ムラ黒江<br />
<br />
TVアニメでは描かれない杏子の、マミの、そしてほむらとまどかのもうひとつの戦い。<br />
交わっていなかったはずの彼女たちを結びつけていたのは—「魔法少女狩り」!?<br />
コミカライズ版「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」同様に全編描き下ろしで贈るもうひとつの「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」!!<br />
<br />
Here, "magical girl hunt" is in quotes. -- [[Special:Contributions/84.134.5.236|84.134.5.236]] 00:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==First 8 pages release==<br />
Since there are witches, this is at least in part a prequel. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 00:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
* It's either a prequel or an interquel, taking place during the series. It's amazing how much this series fooled us. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 00:16, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
****first chapter has been translated [http://www.yurikai.com/releases/16760 here] --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Story Summary from Japanese Wiki ==<br />
<br />
Story summary from Japanese wiki<br />
<br />
美国織莉子はキュゥべえと契約し魔法少女となったが、自らの魔法の力で見滝原の将来の惨状を目の当たりにする。その光景の中で見た一人の少女に着目し、キュゥべえに「とてもいい魔法少女の素体がいる」と告げる。<br />
<br />
一方、見滝原にやってきて魔女を倒した杏子は、両親が魔女に殺された少女、千歳ゆまと出会う。孤児になったゆまは杏子になつき、杏子もゆまをかつての自分を見るようになる。<br />
<br />
そうした中、見滝原では魔法少女が魔法少女によって殺される「魔法少女狩り」が横行していた。この事件に杏子とゆま、見滝原を守るために戦うマミ、まどかが魔法少女にならないよう寄り添うほむら、魔法少女たちが巻き込まれることになる。<br />
<br />
Translation:<br />
<br />
Oriko Mikuni made contract with QB and became a mahou shoujo (MS). Using her magical power she could see the ruins of the city in future. She started to notice a young girl in her vision of the ruinous future city, and commented to QB that the girl had the material to make a very good MS.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, Kyouko came to the city to defeat witches, and she encountered Yuma Chitose, a young girl whose parents were killed by a witch. Yuma, now an orphan, became attached to Kyouko, and Kyouko also started to see her younger self in Yuma.<br />
<br />
And around this time, in the city there were frequent happenings of "mahou shoujo hunting" in which one MS was killed by another MS. And the characters including the pair of Kyouko and Yuma, Mami who fought for the peace of the city, Homura whose sole purpose was to prevent Madoka from turning into a MS, and of course Oriko, all got drawn into this "hunt". <br />
<br />
Also: From the Japanese wiki, a mention of a new girl Kirika who seems to be a follower of Oriko and helped her when she transformed into a MS. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 18:08, 12 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Spoiler: Oriko is a corrupt word for Oracle. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:19, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Fan Gallery with actual Manga Pages ==<br />
<br />
This [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_disfuntional_family.png] and this [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_fancy_hotel_bath_house.png] are actual manga pages with english translation. Should we just leave them on the fan gallery anyway? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 23:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If we're going to have them,I would put them in the normal gallery, since they're official images, even if they've been translated. They're not demonstrating anything, though, so I would hesitate to have them on the page at all. It's on that grey-zone re:copyright. --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 00:36, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:It's not the image itself, it's the humorous commentary like "Yuma, hasnt anyone taught you not to go to fancy hotels with strangers?" is separated so say someone with limited understanding of English and hasn't read Oriko doesn't accidently think that Yuma is going into a hotel with a stranger (and all the negative implications associated with that). It's clearly fan humor and that's why it goes in the fan gallery. =[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 00:39, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Information Box==<br />
*Should we have an information box like date of publishing, the illustrators, the publishers, info. etc? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:00, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Changed Puella Magi to Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
In short: "Mahou Shoujo" is Japanese. "Puella Magi" is Latin. "Magical Girl" is English. Given this is written in English, I opted for the third choice. If we're going with Puella Magi for the site overall, may I ask why we're using Latin instead of English? I think you're all aware of the "mahou shoujo" vs. "puella magi" debate. In short, "puella magi" is used in the logo. However, in Japanese, the title, the anime dialogue, and what's written in manga, it's always "mahou shoujo." Personally, I think using the English translation of "magical girl" is the best way to circumvent the issue outside of references to titles, e.g. "Puella Magi Oriko Magica" the manga has the titular character Oriko, who is a magical girl. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:My personal, (very) biased opinion is simple: "magical girl" is kind of... empty and meaningless. Whereas here, unlike in other anime/manga, they actually went out and gave them a worthy title. I think they intended on having us use it in English, but that's speculation, of course. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 08:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Fact is, this debate has been going on for ages (basically since gg released the first episode, i.e. Jan. 6) and no consensus has ever been reached. <br />
:*The pro-"Puella Magi" base their argument on that "it's in the title so it's official" (plus it's been used in the Madoka Café as a translation for 魔法少女). <br />
:*The pro-"Magical Girl" say that "nobody ever says that in canon; they say "mahou shoujo" which translates in English to "magical girl", and we speak English, not Latin". <br />
:Since there was no agreement whatsoever, we use both translation indifferently on this wiki. I feel personally more inclined to using "Magical Girl" ("Puella Magi" may be in the title, but it's like the name of the franchise), but since the [[Glossary]] says Puella Magi, I tried to use it instead out of consistency. I do not think we should force the use of one or the other, unless we wanna start another endless argument (to not say "shitstorm").<br>tl;dr you can use whichever you want, and revert things if you want, as long as it doesn't end up in an edit war --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::OK, that was my question to see if there was some kind of consensus as to what to use. Both terms being used interchangeable is fine. It's not like terms haven't been used interchangeable for other anime in the genre like "Cure" for PreCure or "Sailor Senshi" for Sailor Moon (both of which, unlike Madoka, use those terms in anime and manga dialogue). For people who are fans of the magical girl genre, there is nothing wrong with the use of "magical girl," as it is used commonly for very popular series like CCS and Nanoha. It's no different than calling someone like Batman a superhero. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Adding my two cents here that one of the striking things about Madoka is how they intentionally keep things simple. None of the girls use a special name for themselves after they transform...no, "Sailor Moon" or "Cure Blossom." They stick to their civilian names which are ordinary Japanese names. The choice feels deliberate, like saying any girl could be asked to contract. Also, aside from Mami, none of them name their special attacks but simply go about their business. They also only refer to themselves as "mahou shoujo" which is the garden-variety, commonly used term "magical girl." So sticking with the use of ordinary terms, in my opinion, is suitable for an anime that seems to make a point of using deliberately simple names. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am flexible to either terms until Urobuchi tells us otherwise. Personally I prefer Puella Magi to separate Madoka from the usual Magical Girl genre, because this is not your typical magical girl show. When I think Mahou Shoujo, I think sailor moon, pretty cure, etc. Nanoha is kind of the same but with gundams but still retain some of that formula, and the idea that magical girls are girls of justice and that idealistic view of the world. In contrast that is not the case in Madoka. This is Urobuchi's world and it is at odds with that view. Which is why I see it that way. That is my personal view, I am not trying to push this view on others. I am reminded of the feud with Star Trek fans: Trekkies vs Trekkers. I just say, just get over it and just be flexible about it until we get [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod Word of God.] --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Seems like we're all on the same page with being flexible on the terms. The more I think about it, the less I care but for exactly the opposite reason the rest of you are giving, ironically. Because most magical girl franchises use a different term aside from magical girl. Sailor Moon "Senshi," Pretty Cure "Cure," Nanoha "Mage," etc. So having another term for magical girl is a common choice. I suppose then it's fine if it's the same for Madoka, even if it's a bit unusual that Puella Magi is never used in-universe in the anime or manga. The whole "gg" thing by the way was clearly their standard trolling. They know it annoys people when we see and hear "mahou shoujo" and rather than using that or magical girl, went with the Latin (and not even accurate Latin at that) term for fun. It's like seeing someone call Batman a "superhero" and some translator turns it into "Eximus Virito! (also wrong Latin) every time. Ah well. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 23:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::we cant forget that Puella Magi was probably done on purpose and there is an actual hidden meaning on that for those who dont know. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 00:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::If you mean from episode 8 at the end with QB, I never understood how people came up with it having to do with puella magi. What QB says is "mahou shoujo" and what he says only makes sense in context of that phrase, "since this country calls women who are still growing up shoujo (少女 girls), for girls who on the way of becoming majo (魔女 witches), it's logical to call them mahou shoujo (魔法少女 magical girls)". Anyways, I've yet to see SHAFT verify why they used bad Latin or the reason they used it aside from "it looks cool" just like the reason Gen googled Mami's final attack in different languages to come up with "Tiro Finale"...because it looked cool. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:32, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::: I thought it was because it can be interpreted as "girl [form] of the sorcerer", or a girl who is slaved to the sorcerer or something. Well, only SHAFT or Urobuchi knows for sure. It just adds to the mystery. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 01:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Just like when they made up that [[Amy|cat]] as a excuse to troll the viewers. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 01:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's been a while since I've taken my Latin, but reasoning that phrase requires some creativity because it doesn't make sense. The two words we have are: puella (girl-singular) and magi (male sorcerors/magicians/wise man-plural, as in the wise men who met with baby Jesus). If one tried to make the most sense of it, it'd probably be "girl of/from the male sorcerors" which still doesn't quite make sense in the context of the anime, you know? The QB/Madoka link would make more sense if it was puella magus or for magical girls in relation to QB, pullae magus or pullae magi if you're going with a race of Incubators. That's why I kind of go...bad Latin, makes no sense! --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: This reminds me of some rumors regarding Kyubey's "boss", because of the interpretation regarding Puella Magi, many suspected Kyubey was just a hell spawn pet from hell doing the work of the real villain or something, perhaps Puella Magi was a Red Herring to mess up with us? I feel like they like to troll us on everything. Maybe I am starting to sound like a raving mad lunatic with a tinfoil hat. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 05:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Latin 'magi' is not just the masculine plural of 'magus'; it can also be the genitive masculine (and neuter; recall that Kyubey might not have a gender) singular. Hence, 'of the sorceror'. [[Special:Contributions/175.141.163.175|175.141.163.175]] 06:40, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::This to me sounds like a case of trying to fit the word to the justification and not the other way around. "Magus" is the singular, "Magi" is the plural in Latin. Magi is also quite notable as the term used to describe the three wise men in the Bible who met Mary and baby Jesus, which is why it strikes me as particularly odd someone would try to use a far more obscure use of it as gender neutral singular. I don't buy Japan being quite that savvy in Latin. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 06:50, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:As a Latin student, I will back up any Latin-related statements, and I will say that "Puella Magi" likely had some thought put into it due to its grouping with "Magica", given that "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" (Magical Girl Madoka of the Mage) completely checks out grammar-wise, something difficult to do without some thought. That said, however, I prefer magical girl. Why? They simply don't ever say "Puella Magi" in the series. Ever. It's given in official outside-universe material, but that's exactly it: outside material (for heaven's sake, it was in a bathroom and a card in a cafe). A wiki refers to in-universe material, in which they always use magical girl. Let alone the fact that "Puella Magi" might even refer specifically to girls like Madoka, Oriko, Kazumi rather than magical girls in general (thus saying the customers are special). "Puella Magi" could mean anything, and we don't know what on earth it is supposed to refer to, while a magical girl is a magical girl and you can't change that. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 00:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Speculah: Oriko's plan==<br />
I think it is too early to speculate but I just wanted to point out some information that I have gathered as well as some pieces that I have thought about. So the manga confirms that "Magical Girl Hunting" is actually the literal translation of hunting Magical Girls, not about a documentary of the lives of Magical Girls hunting witches. So for some reason Oriko thinks that killing Puella Magi/Magical Girls is part of the solution, but solution to what? What I can gather is that she wants to stop Walpurgis Night. She has accepted her fate and knows she will become a witch, but what drives her?. What is Oriko's goal? It seems to be tied to her father's dream [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_family_portrait.png]. But what was his dream exactly? Ch 3 shows a young Oriko who wants to maintain the peace and make people happy, perhaps that is why she wants to defend the city. But since it is too early to tell this is just an speculation, not until we find more information.<br />
<br />
Now as to why is Oriko killing magical girls. It makes no sense practically. The more magical girls she kills the more Kyubey would replace, this would be a minor setback but considering the possibility that the whole planet has Puella Magi, and not just Japan she cant stop or sabotage Kyubey's plans and I dont think that is her objective. So what else could it be? One of the theories regarding Walpurgis Night is that Walpurgis Night is a gathering of witches and one of the theories is that Walpurgis Night is formed from the amalgamation of several Witches. If this is true she could be targeting magical girls who she suspects will transform into witches who would become part of Walpurgis Night, this is just a possibility. I am reminded of Homura's data on her home and her analysis wall, perhaps Homura at one point she had the same idea but scraped it for whatever reason (perhaps Homura is not a cold blood killer). Again, just speculation and no solid evidence to confirm this, but it cold explain why Oriko is hunting other magical girls. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think there is a flaw in Oriko's plan, if that is her plan, if she kills a magical girl before she becomes a Witch, wont another Witch could take her place? Sounds like a game of whack-a-mole. Then there is Yuma, still no clues why she is essential to Oriko's plan. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oriko_Magica&diff=14630Talk:Oriko Magica2011-05-21T00:49:49Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Changed Puella Magi to Magical Girl */</p>
<hr />
<div>Some latest news, just as an FYI: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-05-18/2-madoka-magica-side-story-manga-land-in-top-5 --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 17:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:And yet, there were no raws out of Japan... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 14:43, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::? There were raws otherwise they wouldn't have gotten scanlated...plus the groups that did, released raws too. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:51, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I meant, they took quite a while, for something that sold that well. And IIRC, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, the raws only came when anonscans and Yurikai received their own copies. I had a little talk with KFY about this, and how manga raws are rarer because you have to destroy the manga to scan it, but still, doesn't explain why the only decent raws I saw around only came 4 days after release, and from outside of Japan... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:56, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Oh, now that you clarified your statement, the only correlation there is if a manga sells well you're more likely to have someone feeling generous about taking apart and scanning their manga. But it largely depends on whether someone is feeling that generous, which is a random factor so sometimes you get more obscure manga with steady scanlations because of a reliable source of raws versus more popular counterparts that see delays because the scanlators have to provide their own. The original Madoka manga was very unusual in that raws came out almost immediately. That isn't the case with most manga out there so it's not surprising that Oriko required scanlators to get their own copies. If they'd waited a few more days, someone else probably would have scanned in it. TBH, for a franchise that isn't primarily manga, Madoka gets some of the fastest translations I've seen. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 17:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Is that so? Uh... Oh well, live and learn. I am just getting into manga, courtesy of Madoka, and I guess I'm learning things just as I learned about anime subs and whatnot. Hell, [[Talk:Puella Magi Kazumi Magica|just look at the first topic here]]. I did think the average raw/scanlation time would be higher than anime, but not that much. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
------<br />
[[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]], where have you found the information that Oriko is a sequel? All other sources seem to indicate it as a prequel...<br />
<br />
--[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 11:32, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:This article seems to indicate that [http://animapple.blogspot.com/2011/04/madoka-madoka-magica-hasnt-finished.html it is], I am more surprised that no one seems to be worried that it will be centered around <u>"MAHOU SHOUJO HUNTING"</u> --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:39, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Well, "silently reaching Madoka Kaname bit by bit" doesn't settle anything. It may refer to Madokami, but it may also refer to the week between Homura's release from hospital and her transferring in to Mitakihara's school. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::This has all the workings of an hilarious translation error, RE: "mahou shoujo hunting".<br />
<br />
Question: I would like to verify what the evidence was that Oriko was a prequel. As far as I know, it was pure speculation on the part of fans because at the time of its announcement, it was what fans thought would explain Mami and Kyouko being in it despite being dead (or on the way there) in the anime. Now that we've seen episode 12, we know that doesn't have to be the case. So I'm not sure why the default mentality is "it's a prequel unless proven otherwise." Normally one thinks of a continuation/spin-off as being sequential to the original work, unless specifically stated otherwise.<br />
:There was some scan (the original link 404ed, and I'm too lazy to search for it elsewhere) with a comment by Mura Kuroe, reading 「およそ一般的な魔法少女らしからぬ佐倉杏子や衡撃的な殉職をした巴マミに、アニメとはまた違った角度からスポットを当てたり、オリジナルキャラが出てきたりと、かなり自由にやらせていただいております。現段階ではまだ何もお話できませんが(笑)、アニメを観終えた方がもっと『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』ワールドを楽しめる、観てない方は最初からアニメを観てみたくなる、そんなコミックスに出来るようがんばりますので楽しみにしていてください。」 (I actually retyped it some time ago for MAL, so that's how I have the text). What I was able to understand from it is that the manga will show Kyouko and Mami from different perspectives, will feature original characters and will be approaching the Madoka universe in a quite liberal way. It was clearly understood at the time (after ep8 - Mami had died long ago, and Kyouko was speculated to die soon, which actually happened) that it means a prequel, but yeah, now that Mami and Kyouko are back in a way, it's not that clear. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:03, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It was also subtly implied in the anime that Mami and Kyouko had some sort of shared backstory in the past, and it was thought that Oriko would cover that period. Before the synopsis was released, the description said it would cover an event that was not in the anime, which could suggest a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I can't see it ''not'' covering their shared past, but that can be done in the form of a flashback, as it's been suggested. I don't discard any possibility at the moment. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:33, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Better Translation? ==<br />
<br />
I have reason to think that both translations listed on this page contain important errors. The "Translation of Official Site" comes from [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/oriko/ here], but it seems to mention ''both'' Madoka and Homura (based off looking for the characters for "Homura"). But more importantly, when I put the text from [http://houbunsha.co.jp/comics/detail.php?p=%CB%E2%CB%A1%BE%AF%BD%F7%A4%AA%A4%EA%A4%B3%A1%F9%A5%DE%A5%AE%A5%AB here] into an online translator, the last two lines actually appear to be the two English lines seen [http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4832240161/ on the cover here] (click and zoom in on the upper left. Granted, it looks like it's badly translated English, but still). Could anyone re-translate these? (I have no capability of translating Japanese). -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I took a shot at translating the little text that's available, and while I don't have a complete set yet, I was able to pinpoint some problems. For example, the "Who could be the girl that stands in front of Mami and Kyouko?" could be better expressed as "Who in the world is this young girl standing before Mami and Kyouko...?" (''Mami to Kyouko no mae ni tatazumu kono otome wa ittai...?'') The "magical girl hunting" bit is also vague in English, whereas in Japanese I'm pretty sure that it clearly refers to "the hunting activities of magical girls," rather than "the hunting ''of'' magical girls." It's difficult for me since I'm not well-versed in the language, but I'll try to help out! [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:14, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Er, going back to the "hunting" part, since that's apparently what a lot of people are concerned about: it's "mahou shoujo kari." When discussing, say, a fox hunt in Japanese, you write "kitsune kari." I guess the white-robed "magical beasts" are going on a hunt? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:26, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi, I'm an owner of the animapple blog. I also think calling this manga sequel is a bit to far-fatched from the information currently given. Before this synopsis being released, the only information we had was; 'Oriko Magica will be looking at other character's story in different perspective'. Thus, there are two possibilities; 1. The idea of 'prequel' was all trolling and this is indeed sequel, as that synopsis was posted 'AFTER' the airing of last episode, 2. It is prequel from untold loop by homura. <br />
<br />
However, I still consider my translation to be accurate. 2ch's response justified that it is indeed 'magical girls being hunted', not 'magical girls hunting'. <br />
<br />
I give you another fact that improves possibility of this being sequel. [http://i.imgur.com/u1ikn.jpg This concept design] by animator of MadoMagi instructs to make Homura look like 'villain' and mahou beast thing to be look like a 'good guy'. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 06:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Vol 2 cover ==<br />
<br />
Oriko vol 2 cover is flying around, though I can't find a bigger version.<br><br />
[[File:Oriko 2 cover small.jpg]]<br><br />
I think this is definitive proof it is not a prequel, given that Homura has no glasses. Who the hell are those two in the back, though? Guess we'll have to wait to find out... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 15:49, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:But if this is not a prequel, then what the hell is Madoka doing on the cover? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:20, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It's either troll, metaphor, or real. You cannot judge anything from it. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 16:24, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Symbolism, I guess? She is being hugged by Homura, after all... <br>Anyway, that's the reason I said it wasn't a prequel, and not that it was a sequel. It might also be during the events of the anime, or in one of Homura's timelines, but those two girls in the back... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::It's most likely a fake cover, since a) it doesn't show up on Amazon, b) it doesn't make sense that the second cover would be released while the first volume's publication is still over a week away, and c) the art style is completely different, from the proportions to the coloring. Mura Kuroe couldn't have improved ''that'' much, unless the whole ''Oriko'' series is actually going to be drawn by different artists. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 16:30, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::That picture reminds me of a troll description on 2ch [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10]<br />
:::::"Kyouko Sakura who searches for a (fated?) white Puella Magi; Mami Tomoe, who confronts the culpit of the "Puella Magi Hunting", a black Puella Magi; and Homura Akemi, who does nothing but protect Madoka Kaname's peace. [...] Which would be, one time axis that already passed." --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::<s>Seems I was fooled, then. Bleh</s> Or not. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:50, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::: [http://www.madoka-magica.com/books/02.html It's from the official website.] I thought everyone knew about this already.--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:12, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Sorry for getting confused. (Seriously, though, the cover looks like somebody on 2ch grabbed some fanart from Pixiv, slapped some red circles and the logo on it, then released the thing to the internet.) The artist is still listed as "Mura Kuroe," so is he going to be using different art styles for the series? Did someone else produce the cover illustration? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 20:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I think the problem is that we only have a very small image to go on. If we had a larger image we could probably make something out. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:57, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
What I called a troll description earlier is now on Amazon, apparently for Oriko's [http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4832240366/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=466449256&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=4832240161&pf_rd_m=AN1VRQENFRJN5&pf_rd_r=1BEP78DP2S2ZFHBX190C second volume.] So is it real after all?<br />
::Well I checked the 2ch source [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10] and it points to [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/comics/] as its source which is a reputable seller. I checked and it has the same synopsis as Amazon. So I'd consider it legit. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:大ヒットオリジナルTVアニメ「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」の全編描き下ろしスピンオフコミック、完結巻!<br />
:因縁の白い魔法少女を探す佐倉杏子、魔法少女狩りの犯人、黒い魔法少女と対峙する巴マミ、ただひたすらに、鹿目まどかとの平穏を守ろうとする暁美ほむら。<br />
:交わることのないはずの3人の魔法少女が『織莉子』の手によって螺旋状に運命を束ねられていく。<br />
:それは、彼女たちの存在を試す物語――。<br />
:それは、過ぎ去ったひとつの時間軸――。 <br />
:: "One time axis" might mean that it takes place in one of the alternate timelines. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 23:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Someone on /a/ provided this basic summary translation. Someone else has verified this translation as accurate enough.<br />
<br />
::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica".<br />
::*Kyouko searching for some white magical girl<br />
::*Mami confronting a black magical girl who's the criminal behind the "magical girl hunting"<br />
::*Homura protecting Madoka<br />
::*The path of those three magical girls weren't supposed to cross and [something about Oriko and fate]<br />
::*A story where their existence is tested<br />
::*The story of a passed time line <br />
::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica". --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prequel/Sequel Debate ==<br />
<br />
Should probably move this to a new section. Anyway:<br />
<br />
*Point A: "It can't be a prequel, the cover of Vol 2 shows Homura, not Moemura."<br />
**Sadly doesn't mean much. It could still be a prequel that happens in the one week we don't see before episode 1, and the cover is just a metaphor for what Homura is doing, and not something that will actually happen in the manga. The cover could also just be that: a cover, and have little to do with the story.<br />
<br />
*Point B: "It can't be a sequel, Homura's not wearing Madoka's ribbons."<br />
**She doesn't start wearing the ribbons until after the "Sayaka vanishes" point in the timeline. This could also be the point where she starts remembering Madoka too. Therefore it doesn't really mean anything. Also once again, cover could just be a cover.<br />
<br />
*Point C: "It's centered on Kyouko and Mami, so it has to be a prequel."<br />
**Could be. Could also just be set in the new setting where they are clearly working together.<br />
<br />
Feel free to add points and counterpoints as necessary. However, I feel that right now we haven't been given anything conclusive about whether it's a prequel, sequel, or an outright alt-u. Until we see a Witch/Grief Seed or a Demon/Grief... Cube?, it would be better not to assume anything. It might mislead people and create false hopes.<br />
<br />
I'll add pro-sequel points:<br />
* 1) Sayaka is the only major character missing in both Oriko covers and descriptions. This is an odd absence in prequel where you have Madoka and Homura present (meaning it couldn't be a time prior to Sayaka's introduction, as she's friends with Madoka). However, her absence would make sense in a sequel where Sayaka's died in episode 12. <br />
* 2) The introduction of new girls and the description of the manga as having a new plot-line with the "hunting of magical girls" seems to me like quite a bit of information you have to hand-wave to explain that all happened involving the major cast characters, and never get mentioned in the anime. Whereas it would fit for a continuation or spin-off without problems, especially since episode 12 makes it clear magical girls still exist, still fight, but things are different and a sequel could explain how.<br />
* 3) Normally if a manga is a prequel, that's mentioned in the advertisement. The fact it isn't leads me to believe that the publisher expects us to believe the default view: that a manga is a sequel or in this case, a spin-off, that follows that original body of work.<br />
<br />
:I will take a third option and say it will be set after anime events, but it will fill in backstory from ''before'' the anime events through flashbacks, thus letting it function as both a sequel and a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::Based on the translated manga of Oriko Magica, there is a part where Madoka appeared and called Homura. She mentioned that Sayaka is waiting for her. Thus, I would probably say that Point A and Point B is totally out. I suspect that this manga is not a prequel, nor a sequel. Probably another spin-off which is not really related to the original story, as what we really believe. The reasons are:<br />
::*1) Madoka and Sayaka never walk home together with Homura in the manga or the anime as far as I recall. Homura never got close to Madoka in the original work unlike this Oriko Magica's Homura who is willing to go back with her.<br />
::*2) Charlotte was defeated by Mami. <br />
::*3) Sayaka and Madoka seems like they knew nothing about Mami, witches and Puella Magi. <br />
::*4) Mami knew about Homura being a Puella Magi. In the manga or anime, Mami first met Homura when she was hunting for Kyuubey. --[[User:Demonicslayer|Demonicslayer]] 17:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::From what we see in the first 3 chapters, the only place Oriko fits is as one of the timelines Homura goes through between timeline 4 and timeline 5, so I'm putting it there on [[Timeline]].[[User:KM|KM]] 18:52, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: Actually, it could as well fit between T3 and T4. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:08, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Timeline 4 is shown right after the soul gem shooting with Homura looking horrified and starting her monologue about how nobody will accept the future. From her behavior, I think it's safe to assume 4 is immediately after 3 and it's the first time she fixed her eyes and hair. [[User:KM|KM]] 20:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Advertisement ==<br />
<br />
Not sure if this is known, but here is an advertisement for the three next books:<br />
<br />
http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/tokuho/<br />
<br />
「魔法少女おりこ☆マギカ」第1巻 原案:Magica Quartet 漫画:ムラ黒江<br />
<br />
TVアニメでは描かれない杏子の、マミの、そしてほむらとまどかのもうひとつの戦い。<br />
交わっていなかったはずの彼女たちを結びつけていたのは—「魔法少女狩り」!?<br />
コミカライズ版「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」同様に全編描き下ろしで贈るもうひとつの「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」!!<br />
<br />
Here, "magical girl hunt" is in quotes. -- [[Special:Contributions/84.134.5.236|84.134.5.236]] 00:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==First 8 pages release==<br />
Since there are witches, this is at least in part a prequel. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 00:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
* It's either a prequel or an interquel, taking place during the series. It's amazing how much this series fooled us. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 00:16, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
****first chapter has been translated [http://www.yurikai.com/releases/16760 here] --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Story Summary from Japanese Wiki ==<br />
<br />
Story summary from Japanese wiki<br />
<br />
美国織莉子はキュゥべえと契約し魔法少女となったが、自らの魔法の力で見滝原の将来の惨状を目の当たりにする。その光景の中で見た一人の少女に着目し、キュゥべえに「とてもいい魔法少女の素体がいる」と告げる。<br />
<br />
一方、見滝原にやってきて魔女を倒した杏子は、両親が魔女に殺された少女、千歳ゆまと出会う。孤児になったゆまは杏子になつき、杏子もゆまをかつての自分を見るようになる。<br />
<br />
そうした中、見滝原では魔法少女が魔法少女によって殺される「魔法少女狩り」が横行していた。この事件に杏子とゆま、見滝原を守るために戦うマミ、まどかが魔法少女にならないよう寄り添うほむら、魔法少女たちが巻き込まれることになる。<br />
<br />
Translation:<br />
<br />
Oriko Mikuni made contract with QB and became a mahou shoujo (MS). Using her magical power she could see the ruins of the city in future. She started to notice a young girl in her vision of the ruinous future city, and commented to QB that the girl had the material to make a very good MS.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, Kyouko came to the city to defeat witches, and she encountered Yuma Chitose, a young girl whose parents were killed by a witch. Yuma, now an orphan, became attached to Kyouko, and Kyouko also started to see her younger self in Yuma.<br />
<br />
And around this time, in the city there were frequent happenings of "mahou shoujo hunting" in which one MS was killed by another MS. And the characters including the pair of Kyouko and Yuma, Mami who fought for the peace of the city, Homura whose sole purpose was to prevent Madoka from turning into a MS, and of course Oriko, all got drawn into this "hunt". <br />
<br />
Also: From the Japanese wiki, a mention of a new girl Kirika who seems to be a follower of Oriko and helped her when she transformed into a MS. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 18:08, 12 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Spoiler: Oriko is a corrupt word for Oracle. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:19, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Fan Gallery with actual Manga Pages ==<br />
<br />
This [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_disfuntional_family.png] and this [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_fancy_hotel_bath_house.png] are actual manga pages with english translation. Should we just leave them on the fan gallery anyway? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 23:45, 16 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If we're going to have them,I would put them in the normal gallery, since they're official images, even if they've been translated. They're not demonstrating anything, though, so I would hesitate to have them on the page at all. It's on that grey-zone re:copyright. --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 00:36, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:It's not the image itself, it's the humorous commentary like "Yuma, hasnt anyone taught you not to go to fancy hotels with strangers?" is separated so say someone with limited understanding of English and hasn't read Oriko doesn't accidently think that Yuma is going into a hotel with a stranger (and all the negative implications associated with that). It's clearly fan humor and that's why it goes in the fan gallery. =[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 00:39, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Information Box==<br />
*Should we have an information box like date of publishing, the illustrators, the publishers, info. etc? --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:00, 17 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Changed Puella Magi to Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
In short: "Mahou Shoujo" is Japanese. "Puella Magi" is Latin. "Magical Girl" is English. Given this is written in English, I opted for the third choice. If we're going with Puella Magi for the site overall, may I ask why we're using Latin instead of English? I think you're all aware of the "mahou shoujo" vs. "puella magi" debate. In short, "puella magi" is used in the logo. However, in Japanese, the title, the anime dialogue, and what's written in manga, it's always "mahou shoujo." Personally, I think using the English translation of "magical girl" is the best way to circumvent the issue outside of references to titles, e.g. "Puella Magi Oriko Magica" the manga has the titular character Oriko, who is a magical girl. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:My personal, (very) biased opinion is simple: "magical girl" is kind of... empty and meaningless. Whereas here, unlike in other anime/manga, they actually went out and gave them a worthy title. I think they intended on having us use it in English, but that's speculation, of course. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 08:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Fact is, this debate has been going on for ages (basically since gg released the first episode, i.e. Jan. 6) and no consensus has ever been reached. <br />
:*The pro-"Puella Magi" base their argument on that "it's in the title so it's official" (plus it's been used in the Madoka Café as a translation for 魔法少女). <br />
:*The pro-"Magical Girl" say that "nobody ever says that in canon; they say "mahou shoujo" which translates in English to "magical girl", and we speak English, not Latin". <br />
:Since there was no agreement whatsoever, we use both translation indifferently on this wiki. I feel personally more inclined to using "Magical Girl" ("Puella Magi" may be in the title, but it's like the name of the franchise), but since the [[Glossary]] says Puella Magi, I tried to use it instead out of consistency. I do not think we should force the use of one or the other, unless we wanna start another endless argument (to not say "shitstorm").<br>tl;dr you can use whichever you want, and revert things if you want, as long as it doesn't end up in an edit war --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:33, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::OK, that was my question to see if there was some kind of consensus as to what to use. Both terms being used interchangeable is fine. It's not like terms haven't been used interchangeable for other anime in the genre like "Cure" for PreCure or "Sailor Senshi" for Sailor Moon (both of which, unlike Madoka, use those terms in anime and manga dialogue). For people who are fans of the magical girl genre, there is nothing wrong with the use of "magical girl," as it is used commonly for very popular series like CCS and Nanoha. It's no different than calling someone like Batman a superhero. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Adding my two cents here that one of the striking things about Madoka is how they intentionally keep things simple. None of the girls use a special name for themselves after they transform...no, "Sailor Moon" or "Cure Blossom." They stick to their civilian names which are ordinary Japanese names. The choice feels deliberate, like saying any girl could be asked to contract. Also, aside from Mami, none of them name their special attacks but simply go about their business. They also only refer to themselves as "mahou shoujo" which is the garden-variety, commonly used term "magical girl." So sticking with the use of ordinary terms, in my opinion, is suitable for an anime that seems to make a point of using deliberately simple names. -[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 13:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am flexible to either terms until Urobuchi tells us otherwise. Personally I prefer Puella Magi to separate Madoka from the usual Magical Girl genre, because this is not your typical magical girl show. When I think Mahou Shoujo, I think sailor moon, pretty cure, etc. Nanoha is kind of the same but with gundams but still retain some of that formula, and the idea that magical girls are girls of justice and that idealistic view of the world. In contrast that is not the case in Madoka. This is Urobuchi's world and it is at odds with that view. Which is why I see it that way. That is my personal view, I am not trying to push this view on others. I am reminded of the feud with Star Trek fans: Trekkies vs Trekkers. I just say, just get over it and just be flexible about it until we get [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod Word of God.] --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Seems like we're all on the same page with being flexible on the terms. The more I think about it, the less I care but for exactly the opposite reason the rest of you are giving, ironically. Because most magical girl franchises use a different term aside from magical girl. Sailor Moon "Senshi," Pretty Cure "Cure," Nanoha "Mage," etc. So having another term for magical girl is a common choice. I suppose then it's fine if it's the same for Madoka, even if it's a bit unusual that Puella Magi is never used in-universe in the anime or manga. The whole "gg" thing by the way was clearly their standard trolling. They know it annoys people when we see and hear "mahou shoujo" and rather than using that or magical girl, went with the Latin (and not even accurate Latin at that) term for fun. It's like seeing someone call Batman a "superhero" and some translator turns it into "Eximus Virito! (also wrong Latin) every time. Ah well. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 23:23, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::we cant forget that Puella Magi was probably done on purpose and there is an actual hidden meaning on that for those who dont know. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 00:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::If you mean from episode 8 at the end with QB, I never understood how people came up with it having to do with puella magi. What QB says is "mahou shoujo" and what he says only makes sense in context of that phrase, "since this country calls women who are still growing up shoujo (少女 girls), for girls who on the way of becoming majo (魔女 witches), it's logical to call them mahou shoujo (魔法少女 magical girls)". Anyways, I've yet to see SHAFT verify why they used bad Latin or the reason they used it aside from "it looks cool" just like the reason Gen googled Mami's final attack in different languages to come up with "Tiro Finale"...because it looked cool. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:32, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::: I thought it was because it can be interpreted as "girl [form] of the sorcerer", or a girl who is slaved to the sorcerer or something. Well, only SHAFT or Urobuchi knows for sure. It just adds to the mystery. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 01:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Just like when they made up that [[Amy|cat]] as a excuse to troll the viewers. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 01:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It's been a while since I've taken my Latin, but reasoning that phrase requires some creativity because it doesn't make sense. The two words we have are: puella (girl-singular) and magi (male sorcerors/magicians/wise man-plural, as in the wise men who met with baby Jesus). If one tried to make the most sense of it, it'd probably be "girl of/from the male sorcerors" which still doesn't quite make sense in the context of the anime, you know? The QB/Madoka link would make more sense if it was puella magus or for magical girls in relation to QB, pullae magus or pullae magi if you're going with a race of Incubators. That's why I kind of go...bad Latin, makes no sense! --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: This reminds me of some rumors regarding Kyubey's "boss", because of the interpretation regarding Puella Magi, many suspected Kyubey was just a hell spawn pet from hell doing the work of the real villain or something, perhaps Puella Magi was a Red Herring to mess up with us? I feel like they like to troll us on everything. Maybe I am starting to sound like a raving mad lunatic with a tinfoil hat. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 05:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Latin 'magi' is not just the masculine plural of 'magus'; it can also be the genitive masculine (and neuter; recall that Kyubey might not have a gender) singular. Hence, 'of the sorceror'. [[Special:Contributions/175.141.163.175|175.141.163.175]] 06:40, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::This to me sounds like a case of trying to fit the word to the justification and not the other way around. "Magus" is the singular, "Magi" is the plural in Latin. Magi is also quite notable as the term used to describe the three wise men in the Bible who met Mary and baby Jesus, which is why it strikes me as particularly odd someone would try to use a far more obscure use of it as gender neutral singular. I don't buy Japan being quite that savvy in Latin. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 06:50, 20 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:As a Latin student, I will back up any Latin-related statements, and I will say that "Puella Magi" likely had some thought put into it due to its grouping with "Magica", given that "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" (Magical Girl Madoka of the Mage) completely checks out grammar-wise, something difficult to do without some thought. That said, however, I prefer magical girl. Why? They simply don't ever say "Puella Magi" in the series. Ever. It's given in official outside-universe material, but that's exactly it: outside material (for heaven's sake, it was in a bathroom and a card in a cafe). A wiki refers to in-universe material, in which they always use magical girl. Let alone the fact that "Puella Magi" might even refer specifically to girls like Madoka, Oriko, Kazumi rather than magical girls in general (thus saying the customers are special). <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 00:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Speculah: Oriko's plan==<br />
I think it is too early to speculate but I just wanted to point out some information that I have gathered as well as some pieces that I have thought about. So the manga confirms that "Magical Girl Hunting" is actually the literal translation of hunting Magical Girls, not about a documentary of the lives of Magical Girls hunting witches. So for some reason Oriko thinks that killing Puella Magi/Magical Girls is part of the solution, but solution to what? What I can gather is that she wants to stop Walpurgis Night. She has accepted her fate and knows she will become a witch, but what drives her?. What is Oriko's goal? It seems to be tied to her father's dream [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Oriko_family_portrait.png]. But what was his dream exactly? Ch 3 shows a young Oriko who wants to maintain the peace and make people happy, perhaps that is why she wants to defend the city. But since it is too early to tell this is just an speculation, not until we find more information.<br />
<br />
Now as to why is Oriko killing magical girls. It makes no sense practically. The more magical girls she kills the more Kyubey would replace, this would be a minor setback but considering the possibility that the whole planet has Puella Magi, and not just Japan she cant stop or sabotage Kyubey's plans and I dont think that is her objective. So what else could it be? One of the theories regarding Walpurgis Night is that Walpurgis Night is a gathering of witches and one of the theories is that Walpurgis Night is formed from the amalgamation of several Witches. If this is true she could be targeting magical girls who she suspects will transform into witches who would become part of Walpurgis Night, this is just a possibility. I am reminded of Homura's data on her home and her analysis wall, perhaps Homura at one point she had the same idea but scraped it for whatever reason (perhaps Homura is not a cold blood killer). Again, just speculation and no solid evidence to confirm this, but it cold explain why Oriko is hunting other magical girls. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 21:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think there is a flaw in Oriko's plan, if that is her plan, if she kills a magical girl before she becomes a Witch, wont another Witch could take her place? Sounds like a game of whack-a-mole. Then there is Yuma, still no clues why she is essential to Oriko's plan. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Oriko_Magica&diff=13447Oriko Magica2011-05-14T00:04:44Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Gallery */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[file:Oriko Art.jpg|thumb|Promotional art for Oriko Magica]]<br />
<br />
'''Puella Magi Oriko Magica''' (魔法少女おりこ☆マギカ, ''Mahou Shoujo Oriko Magica'') is the second spin-off [[manga]] illustrated by Mura Kuroe with draft by Magica Quartet. The first volume will be published by ''[[wikipedia:Houbunsha|Houbunsha]]'' and features the return of [[Kyouko]] and [[Mami]] from the anime as well as new cast members.<br />
<br />
Although the first volume was initially intended to be released on April 12, 2011, the [[Wikipedia: 2011_Tōhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami| 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami]], as well as the subsequent postponement of the last two episodes of the anime has caused ''Oriko Magica'' to be postponed to May 12, 2011. The second volume will be released on June 13, 2011.<br />
<br />
==Plot==<br />
Promotional material indicates the story will be set after the events of the anime, revolving around [[Kyouko Sakura|Kyouko]], [[Mami Tomoe|Mami]], [[Homura Akemi|Homura]], and a new magical girl named Oriko. [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]] may make a vague appearance.<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
;[[Mami Tomoe]]<br />
<br />
;[[Kyouko Sakura]]<br />
<br />
;[[Oriko Mikuni]] (織莉子)<br />
<br />
;[[Madoka Kaname]]<br />
<br />
;[[Homura Akemi]]<br />
<br />
;[[Yuma Chitose]]<br />
<br />
;[[Kirika Kure]] (呉 キリカ)<br />
<br />
==Translation of Official Site== <br />
Even though the TV anime ended, Puella Magi will not.<br/><br />
Who could be the girl that stands in front of Mami and Kyouko?<br/>Stay tuned for volume one of the official spin-off comic "Puella Magi Oriko Magica", which shows another fight that was not depicted in Mami's, Kyouko's as well as Homura and Madoka's TV anime!!<br />
<br />
[[File:Oriko Magica Sample Fantranslated.jpg|thumb|Sample Oriko page with fan translation]]<br />
==Official synopsis==<br />
Volume 1:<br />
<br />
:Introducing a spin-off comic from the big-hit original TV anime "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" with a whole new story!<br/>Kyouko Sakura, who spends all her time fighting in isolation, Mami Tomoe, who protects Mitakihara Town with a heart of justice and Homura Akemi, who silently approaches Madoka Kaname.<br/>A story revolving around each Puella Magi's battles that weren't meant to cross, centering in an event called "Puella Magi Hunting".<br/>Which would be, an incident that would change the fate of the girls completely.<br/>Which would be, the beginning of a new Puella Magi story...<br />
<br />
The first eight pages are available for official preview here [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/comics/book/index.php?cid=494]. Click on the orange button.<br />
<br />
Volume 2:<br />
<br />
:Kyouko Sakura who searches for a fated white Puella Magi; Mami Tomoe, who confronts the culpit of the "Puella Magi Hunting", a black Puella Magi; and Homura Akemi, who does nothing but protect Madoka Kaname's peace. The path of those three magical girls weren't supposed to cross. A story where their existence is tested. The story of a passed time line. This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime, "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica".<br />
<br />
== Front Covers ==<br />
<gallery position="center" captionalign="left"><br />
File:Oriko Art.jpg|Volume 1<br />
File:Oriko 2 cover small.jpg|Volume 2<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
== Gallery ==<br />
<gallery position="center" captionalign="left"><br />
File:Black mage Kirika Kure art.jpg|Fan art of Kirika Kure<br />
File:ChitoseandKyouko.jpg|Fan art of Kyouko and Yuma<br />
File:Close-up.jpg|Free illustration that comes with Oriko vol. 1<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/oriko/ Official website for ''Puella Magi Oriko Magica'']<br />
*[http://www.madoka-magica.com/books/02.html Covers for ''Puella Magi Oriko Magica'' on official website.]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Manga]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Jubey&diff=13088Jubey2011-05-11T02:01:55Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Trivia */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Jubey<br />
|image=<center>[[File:Jubey square.png]]</center><br />
|jname=ジュゥべぇ (Jubey) <!--Someone check this, please--><br />
}}<br />
{{Nihongo|'''Jubey'''|ジュゥべぇ|Juubee}} is a character in [[Kazumi_Magica|Puella Magi Kazumi Magica: The Innocent Malice]].<br />
<br />
Described as a {{nihongo|fairy|妖精|yōsei}}, but very likely an Incubator, he was the [[Pleiades Saints]]'s contractor. He is particularly notable for being able to clean their [[Soul Gem|Soul Gems]] by his own, relieving the girls of the need to compete for [[Grief Seed|Grief Seeds]].<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
While he is very likely an Incubator, and should therefore be emotionless, he has displayed more emotional behavior in a few panels than his counterpart [[Kyubey]] has in the entire anime.<br />
He displays annoyance/embarrassment when violently hugged by Satomi against her breasts, and disgust when he is fed Evil Nuts instead of Grief Seeds.<br />
Furthermore, he dislikes being called Bey-chan.<br />
<br />
Most importantly, he appears to be able to understand the concept of deception. While he behaves normally around the Pleiades, he is shown looking down on them with an evil grin, saying, "Do you think things will go well this time, Pleiades?".<br />
<br />
It should be noted, however, that while Incubators may be emotionless (apart from mentally ill ones), the [[Madoka Magica (manga)|Manga version of Madoka Magica]] has given Kyubey a lot more facial expressions.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
{{spoilers|media=kazumi}}<br />
[[File:Jubey Cleanup.png|300px|thumb|Jubey cleaning house, literally.]]<br />
Jubey has so far only appeared in Kazumi Magica.<br />
<br />
He appeared after the Pleiades rescued Umika and Kaoru from an escaped witch. He stood on a rooftop watching their celebration, alongside Kyubey.<br />
<br />
Jumping down, he came to the attention of Kazumi, who was shocked at what seemed to be a talking cat. Satomi introduced him as Jubey, the fairy who had turned them into Puellae Magi. He proceeded to absorb the darkness inside the girls' Soul Gems by gracefully spinning in the air, and then he quite literally ate a Grief Seed given to him by Nico. When he asked for more, he was fed Evil Nuts, the awkward looking Grief Seeds dropped by the pseudo-witches they faced before. He spat them out with apparent disgust, saying they weren't Grief Seeds. Umika theorized they imitated the Grief Seed's power and were created by [[Yuuri|the mysterious girl from before]], but before they could draw further conclusions, a huge blast hit the group. Jubey was next seen sleeping with Kazumi's black cat while the rest of the Pleiades discuss Yuuri's attack and their plan of action at Umika, Kaoru and Kazumi's home.<br />
<br />
==Powers, Weapons & Abilities==<br />
{{spoilers|media=anime|episode=8|margin=330px}}<br />
As an Incubator, he wields the power to grant wishes through contracts and, by removing one's soul and giving it a physical form as a Soul Gem, give a Puella Magi their powers. He also disposes of Grief Seeds by eating them. It is assumed he possesses other powers displayed by his "cousin", Kyubey, such as possessing multiple bodies and being able to show memories inside other's minds.<br />
<br />
He has, however, shown an ability of his own, unseen before: the power to clean a Puella Magi's Soul Gem on his own, without requiring the use of a Grief Seed. This could have franchise-wide implications.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
<br />
* Unlike Kyubey, who merely drops Grief Seeds onto a hatch in his back, Jubey literally ''eats'' them: the circle in his forehead can be seen clenching just as one's mouth does while eating, and munching sounds can be heard.<br />
* Jubey's name is a pun on Kyubey's name ("kyuu" in Japanese is "nine", while "juu" is "ten"). It likely has nothing to do with the word "Incubator".<br />
<br />
==Speculation==<br />
[[File:Jubey munch 2.png|thumb|Munch munch.]]<br />
* It appears that he absorbs the grief from the Soul Gems onto his skin, which is appropriately pitch black. On the other hand, he is seen making a gulping noise and licking his lips afterwards, suggesting some sort of consumption.<br />
* In the anime, magical girls worked alone or in small groups because the Grief Seeds they needed to clean their Soul Gems were a limited resource. Magical girls could easily clash over territory and were just as likely to compete than cooperate. When the Pleiades Saints were revealed to be a seven-member magical girl team, a number of readers wondered how that could be possible in this context. It was considered unlikely that there were enough witches in Asunaro City to support seven magical girls. Chapter 4 explained that Jubey, the fairy they contracted with, can clean their Soul Gems, meaning they don't need to compete for Grief Seeds.<br />
** What was left unexplained was why this was done. Kyubey has never demonstrated the ability to clean Soul Gems in the anime. In fact, he actively sought to have the girls corrupt their Soul Gems and turn into witches. One probable explanation is that from what we've seen, the Pleiades had fairly minor wishes and were therefore weaker magical girls. Being weak magical girls, they wouldn't become powerful witches, and thus they wouldn't produce a lot of energy when they transformed. It is then more efficient for Jubey to let them hunt Grief Seeds for him than to try and convert them into witches.<br>In purely mathematical terms, a team of weak Puellae Magi capturing a more powerful witch than themselves, using team tactics to level the field, is extremely efficient when it comes to energy output.<br />
* It was mentioned in the anime that it was possible for an Incubator to have emotions, but they would be considered mentally ill. Juubey might be one of those Incubators.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Ju and Kyu.png|Jubey standing alongside Kyubey. Together known as The Legion Of Doom.<br />
File:Jubey evil grin.png|Maybe not such a good "fairy".<br />
File:Jubey munch 1.png|Just a snack.<br />
File:Imitation Grief Seed (Evil Nut).png|An "imitation" Grief Seed, a.k.a Evil Nut. Do not feed them your Incubator. Especially after midnight.<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Jubey&diff=13087Jubey2011-05-11T02:00:38Z<p>Aster Selene: Jubey actually has a very different speech pattern from Kyubey's, so...</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Jubey<br />
|image=<center>[[File:Jubey square.png]]</center><br />
|jname=ジュゥべぇ (Jubey) <!--Someone check this, please--><br />
}}<br />
{{Nihongo|'''Jubey'''|ジュゥべぇ|Juubee}} is a character in [[Kazumi_Magica|Puella Magi Kazumi Magica: The Innocent Malice]].<br />
<br />
Described as a {{nihongo|fairy|妖精|yōsei}}, but very likely an Incubator, he was the [[Pleiades Saints]]'s contractor. He is particularly notable for being able to clean their [[Soul Gem|Soul Gems]] by his own, relieving the girls of the need to compete for [[Grief Seed|Grief Seeds]].<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
While he is very likely an Incubator, and should therefore be emotionless, he has displayed more emotional behavior in a few panels than his counterpart [[Kyubey]] has in the entire anime.<br />
He displays annoyance/embarrassment when violently hugged by Satomi against her breasts, and disgust when he is fed Evil Nuts instead of Grief Seeds.<br />
Furthermore, he dislikes being called Bey-chan.<br />
<br />
Most importantly, he appears to be able to understand the concept of deception. While he behaves normally around the Pleiades, he is shown looking down on them with an evil grin, saying, "Do you think things will go well this time, Pleiades?".<br />
<br />
It should be noted, however, that while Incubators may be emotionless (apart from mentally ill ones), the [[Madoka Magica (manga)|Manga version of Madoka Magica]] has given Kyubey a lot more facial expressions.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
{{spoilers|media=kazumi}}<br />
[[File:Jubey Cleanup.png|300px|thumb|Jubey cleaning house, literally.]]<br />
Jubey has so far only appeared in Kazumi Magica.<br />
<br />
He appeared after the Pleiades rescued Umika and Kaoru from an escaped witch. He stood on a rooftop watching their celebration, alongside Kyubey.<br />
<br />
Jumping down, he came to the attention of Kazumi, who was shocked at what seemed to be a talking cat. Satomi introduced him as Jubey, the fairy who had turned them into Puellae Magi. He proceeded to absorb the darkness inside the girls' Soul Gems by gracefully spinning in the air, and then he quite literally ate a Grief Seed given to him by Nico. When he asked for more, he was fed Evil Nuts, the awkward looking Grief Seeds dropped by the pseudo-witches they faced before. He spat them out with apparent disgust, saying they weren't Grief Seeds. Umika theorized they imitated the Grief Seed's power and were created by [[Yuuri|the mysterious girl from before]], but before they could draw further conclusions, a huge blast hit the group. Jubey was next seen sleeping with Kazumi's black cat while the rest of the Pleiades discuss Yuuri's attack and their plan of action at Umika, Kaoru and Kazumi's home.<br />
<br />
==Powers, Weapons & Abilities==<br />
{{spoilers|media=anime|episode=8|margin=330px}}<br />
As an Incubator, he wields the power to grant wishes through contracts and, by removing one's soul and giving it a physical form as a Soul Gem, give a Puella Magi their powers. He also disposes of Grief Seeds by eating them. It is assumed he possesses other powers displayed by his "cousin", Kyubey, such as possessing multiple bodies and being able to show memories inside other's minds.<br />
<br />
He has, however, shown an ability of his own, unseen before: the power to clean a Puella Magi's Soul Gem on his own, without requiring the use of a Grief Seed. This could have franchise-wide implications.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
<br />
* Unlike Kyubey, who merely drops Grief Seeds onto a hatch in his back, Jubey literally ''eats'' them: the circle in his forehead can be seen clenching just as one's mouth does while eating, and munching sounds can be heard.<br />
<br />
==Speculation==<br />
[[File:Jubey munch 2.png|thumb|Munch munch.]]<br />
* It appears that he absorbs the grief from the Soul Gems onto his skin, which is appropriately pitch black. On the other hand, he is seen making a gulping noise and licking his lips afterwards, suggesting some sort of consumption.<br />
* In the anime, magical girls worked alone or in small groups because the Grief Seeds they needed to clean their Soul Gems were a limited resource. Magical girls could easily clash over territory and were just as likely to compete than cooperate. When the Pleiades Saints were revealed to be a seven-member magical girl team, a number of readers wondered how that could be possible in this context. It was considered unlikely that there were enough witches in Asunaro City to support seven magical girls. Chapter 4 explained that Jubey, the fairy they contracted with, can clean their Soul Gems, meaning they don't need to compete for Grief Seeds.<br />
** What was left unexplained was why this was done. Kyubey has never demonstrated the ability to clean Soul Gems in the anime. In fact, he actively sought to have the girls corrupt their Soul Gems and turn into witches. One probable explanation is that from what we've seen, the Pleiades had fairly minor wishes and were therefore weaker magical girls. Being weak magical girls, they wouldn't become powerful witches, and thus they wouldn't produce a lot of energy when they transformed. It is then more efficient for Jubey to let them hunt Grief Seeds for him than to try and convert them into witches.<br>In purely mathematical terms, a team of weak Puellae Magi capturing a more powerful witch than themselves, using team tactics to level the field, is extremely efficient when it comes to energy output.<br />
* It was mentioned in the anime that it was possible for an Incubator to have emotions, but they would be considered mentally ill. Juubey might be one of those Incubators.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Ju and Kyu.png|Jubey standing alongside Kyubey. Together known as The Legion Of Doom.<br />
File:Jubey evil grin.png|Maybe not such a good "fairy".<br />
File:Jubey munch 1.png|Just a snack.<br />
File:Imitation Grief Seed (Evil Nut).png|An "imitation" Grief Seed, a.k.a Evil Nut. Do not feed them your Incubator. Especially after midnight.<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jubey&diff=13078Talk:Jubey2011-05-10T22:45:48Z<p>Aster Selene: </p>
<hr />
<div>I just wonder - the word "Incubator" is all over this page - shouldn't we tag the entire article as spoiling ep8 of the anime because of that? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 22:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think any page related to Kazumi and Oriko ought to be spoiler-tagged. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 22:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Speculah:Puellae_Magi_Don%27t_Age&diff=12744Speculah:Puellae Magi Don't Age2011-05-08T19:14:41Z<p>Aster Selene: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:How old are you.jpg|thumb|How old is Kyouko?]]<br />
This speculah was first spotted in animefan's comment on [http://thoughteclipse.blog.com/2011/02/18/mahou-shoujo-madoka%E2%98%85magica-7-the-road-to-hell-is-paved-with-good-intentions/ Steel's blog post about Episode 7]. Whether it is his original theory or not is unknown.<br />
<br />
The theory basically says that Puella Magi, due to the "zombie"-like nature of their bodies, stop aging the day they make the contract. The explanation given in the original comment is that rather than the original body becoming soulless, it is "replaced altogether by a magical meat puppet that approximates her old body appearance", though other explanations for the same basic theory are also possible.<br />
<br />
=== Evidence ===<br />
<br />
* [[Kyouko Sakura]] gives most evidence:<br />
** She speaks in an "arcane" dialect of Japanese; however, characters using strange speech patterns or dialects isn't uncommon in anime (still, it's a fair point).<br />
** In her memories in [[Episode 7]], she is seen in clothes of Victorian style, while not looking significantly younger; moreover, some events in these memories indicate a different age, like the water bucket; however, the highly stylized nature of the memories scenes may mean it is not a valid evidence. On the other hand, she was also shown, in normal animation during her memories, to be wearing modern clothes before her contract with Kyubey, thus dispelling the possibility of her born before the late 20th century.<br />
** We never see any hint of her going to school, which might mean she's graduated; however it's also possible that since she came from a family that could barely afford food, it's why she's not going to school.<br />
** Kyouko is also able to use her Soul Gem's magic to keep [[Sayaka Miki]]'s body from going cold/decomposing after death. While this isn't outright defying the concept of aging, it comes rather close.<br />
** In the concept art showing a younger Kyouko and her family, Kyouko and her sister are wearing fairly modern clothes; however, the art is not within context. However, a shot in Episode 7 shows the younger Kyouko drawn normally; her outfit is distinctly modern, detracting from the theory that she is centuries old.<br />
* [[Homura Akemi|Homura]] speaks about seeing many Puella Magi die, and trying to stop girls from becoming Puella Magi many times, implying that she's doing it for a very long time - yet she passes as a 13-14-year-old. Not to mention about her Intelligence as shown in episode 1. ''<span style="color:#e00;">(In [[Episode 10]], it was revealed that {{Spoiler|she simply saw the same Puella Magi die multiple times due to having traveled back in time multiple times due to her wish.}})</span>''<br />
* In the retrospect scene of [[Mami Tomoe|Mami]] making a contract with [[Kyubey]] in [[Episode 3]], she appears to be of the same age as she is in the current timeline, while she is said to be a long-time and experienced Puella Magi. However, it's worth keeping in mind that "long time" for a Puella Magi could just mean a few months, or maybe just a year, and in that timeframe Mami wouldn't have changed enough for it to be noticeable.<br />
* {{Spoiler|Near the end of the final episode, Homura is seen in what some have interpreted as a post-apocalyptic wasteland of the far future; this must be taken with a grain of salt, though, since it's pure speculation.}}<br />
<br />
None of this evidence can be considered a hard proof, though.<br />
<br />
A possible variation of this theory is that every Puella Magi can choose herself whether to age or not. It can be further variated that they are not aware of that choice - it may be linked with the decision not to feel body pain (about which [[Kyubey]] was talking to [[Sayaka Miki|Sayaka]] in [[Episode 7]]'s pre-OP scene), for example.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Articles]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kazumi_Magica&diff=12743Talk:Kazumi Magica2011-05-08T19:05:47Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Expansion */</p>
<hr />
<div>Is it "Niko" or "Nico"? The scanlations use the latter. -[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:23, 7 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wait. Independent chapters? ==<br />
<br />
I'm seeing Chapters One through Three of Kazumi on Mangafox. Yet the first volume is only coming out in May 12th?<br />
I am kinda nob when it comes to manga... so, does "serialization" means that these chapters are coming out in Kirara Forward each month, before they're packed together and released as a volume? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yes. Most manga series are published chapter-by-chapter each week or month in a magazine, with volumes being released whenever a set number of chapters is reached. [[Special:Contributions/64.89.144.100|64.89.144.100]] 20:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::In that case, should we add each chapter's release date? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:::I believe a release date along with a summary of the chapters would be in order, with proper spoiler tags of course.<br />
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== Runes? ==<br />
I think there is some runic text in Kazumi chapter 1. Anyone have a translation? - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 13:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Do you have a scan or something? Might as well try and translate them, I'm pretty bored anyway. Also, we should probably make a page for them then, [[Runes:Kazumi Magica]] or something. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 14:26, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c001/4.html I see them here, but suddenly I'm not sure if they were added there by the scanlators or not.] There ''might'' be some [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c003/5.html here] as well, I'm not sure. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 15:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, the first one is obviously added by the scanlator. It reads "scanlated by /a/non for /a/non, raws from [something I couldn't read due to quality]". --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The mysterious characters on the second one don't look like any recognized runes to me. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In case you're talking about "入口は??", that's japanese. I can't make it quite out, but it should say something like "Entrance this way". --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Oh my. I know enough Japanese to know what 入口 is, but it's such an obfuscated font I'd never tell it's kanji. Thanks for pointing it out! --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The last scanlator runeword matches the raw provider name in the watermark in the next page, and it's mixing archaic and modern.<br />
::::: Thank you all very much, sorry for the inconvenience. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Juubey? ==<br />
<br />
Where'd you get this from? O.o [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:[[File:Juubey.jpg|200px]]<br />
:It seems that scans leaked on 2ch. [[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 13:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Now notice the shadow next to Juubey in the first panel. Juubey may not be an Incubator after all... -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:02, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Jubey's definitely an Incubator. The girl on the second page (I forget her name) calls him/her/it "the fairy that made us into puella magi". It seems that Kyubey is present on the first page, though...--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Exactly. Kyubey is a hive mind. Why would he need to talk to himself like that? I think the fact that it's a "fairy" is going to be a major point. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Even if there's a hive mind, that doesn't mean they can simply telepathically talk or instantly know what another Incubator is up to. Like the Human Interfaces in Haruhi.--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Volume 1 ==<br />
Dumb question: I would imagine that since it's being released the same time as ''Oriko'' it might get lost in the shuffle, but is there anyone who's planning to look through it and see if there are any differences/additions to the original serialized chapters? -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If someone will upload the scans (raws are fine) of the tankobon somewhere (preferably as some DDL, but torrent is OK, too), then I can do that. But seeing how Kazumi is rather unpopular, I'm not so sure of the scan availability. I don't plan on buying Kazumi myself. Not in the slightest. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 20:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Yeah, that's what concerns me. I'd do it myself, if I could get the scans, but...--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 21:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It is? Uh... it's got half a million views in MangaFox, but then again, I guess that doesn't translate in the "Madoka is sold out EVERYWHERE" thing we had with the original manga. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: It's more that I'm worried Kazumi will be ignored when Oriko comes out. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 22:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::: Well obviously. Slapping the main characters on it = automatic profit. And Kazumi was just getting intresting :/ (well, to most people. I've liked it since the start. Though it might just be because I love Kazumi and real tech mixed with magic (the GPS, Yuuri's SMGs are ''almost'' [[wikipedia:Walther MPL|Walther MPL]]'s, etc.)) --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Expansion ==<br />
<br />
This is a question that also applies to Oriko.<br>Right now, we have a single page to cover everything in each manga release. Granted, they're nearly not the same scale as Madoka, and one of them is just a medium conversion with few changes. But still, there's more to it than just this.<br />
The most obvious example being a page for Kazumi herself, Umika and Kaoru, and another for the Pleiades Saints. And maybe then think about other stuff.<br>I volunteer to work on it, but I won't be able to until the weekend, university and fencing are keeping me locked up.<br>But that's not really my main question. That would be: should it be done? Okay, this is "Puella Magi wiki", not "Madoka wiki". But given the obviously huge focus on Madoka, and the apparent lack of interest in the spin-offs (so far), is it justifiable? <br>I certainly think so, but I want to hear from you. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 00:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I myself am not interested in the spinoffs, but definitely think that ''Kazumi'' at least should get its own set of character pages and the like. My only problem is with ''Oriko'': the current translation of the second volume's synopsis calls it the "concluding" volume, meaning that the series most likely isn't going to have enough content to justify taking up more than one page -- especially considering that any new insight into the anime characters can just be entered onto ''their'' preexisting pages. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 03:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I support Kazumi pages. Oriko at the very least should get her own page. It's approximately 8 chapters, which is relatively significant. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 05:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think it's best to separate manga characterizations from the anime ones. Oriko is described as a spin-off, so events and characterizations may not be considered canon to the anime. We know even the direct adaptation manga has significant differences from the anime. For example, the manga shows Sayaka killing the men on the train whereas Shinbo in the anime chose not to go that route. Either interpretation was acceptable to Urobuchi who left the scenario open to both so neither are technically wrong but it would be confusing and a bit misleading to not clearly state what was in the anime and what was in the manga. This would also apply to the background information on Madoka's characters from Oriko. I'm all for having it included but the source should be clearly stated and preferably categorized so it avoids any confusion. As for Kazumi, as long as the pages stay under the manga section, it sounds fine, just don't want it under the characters page where people might get confused with them and the Madoka anime characters. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
SUGGESTION: Since the character pages all need to be cleaned up a little big in general (speculah about characters should be moved to a new speculah page for characters, for example, and be tagged right/wrong/uncomfirmed), redundant discussions need to be trimmed, etc etc, just add a "in the manga" section to each character page that will, as necessary, detail their involvement in the mangas. Furthermore, I believe that each major manga character (so Kazumi and Oriko, at least) should get their own page on the characters page. Just add a section for manga-only characters.<br />
:The character pages do need clean-up however I don't think Kazumi or any other manga-only characters (like in Oriko) should be included with the Madoka ones. The website is dedicated to Puella Magi (or Mahou Shoujo) Madoka Magica. That means the character pages should really only be dedicated to those characters in the anime. The manga only characters belong in the manga section as something in addition that might interest people, but isn't the main focus or draw to this site. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 07:41, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I agree with the sentiment, but why have a wiki for the anime and a wiki for the manga when we could have a single unified wiki that properly identifies what comes from the manga and what comes from the anime? This just seems like it'll split the fanbase between working on a manga wiki and working on an anime wiki... and guess which one will get more attention and which one will be incomplete and barely worked on if that happens? I'm not seeing the harm in adding manga material, as long as it is clearly identified and marked which is what. Not only that, but knowing that the mangas are being produced by the same company, they may reveal things that will fill in the blanks for the anime. If a decision can't be reached by single individuals, though... why not hold a poll?<br />
<br />
::Actually, the wiki is called "puella-magi.net" (as opposed to the previous one who was madoka-centered), and the homepage states "(...) as well as any subsequent works.", so like the guy above me (who didn't sign his comment by the way), I think manga characters do have their place here. Why not just add a new row "Manga characters" in the [[Characters]]'s table? (just like Madoka's family and classmates) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:25, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Let me see if I can explain my thinking in clearer, more straight-forward fashion. The most logical way I see to fix the issues discussed is for: the manga to have its own subsection (equivalent to setting, products, media etc.) and in that section, each manga would have a separate listing under it. Then, you can break out the manga into a chapters and character page. This is a simple way to solve the issues of growth and also clearly separates what happens in the anime from what happens in the manga. You can also then provide a link from the anime characters pointing to the manga character page(s) to give additional information/discrepancies between what occurred in the anime and manga, but having separate pages makes it easy to see what characteristic was derived from which source. <br />
:::On the other hand, if you'd did it the other way people are suggesting, adding manga-only characters to the character section, it could easily become confusing to someone who is not familiar with both the anime and manga. It's also inconsistent with the format of the section under settings where location, glossary and (of course) episodes are all anime-specific. Then you may open up the can of worms where people start adding manga-only items to location, glossary, etc. If you say well why does any of this matter? It's because there are always discrepancies between "canon anime," "canon manga," and "spin-off manga," that are viewed as different level of authority by fans and it's important to them to know the distinction. Anytime those lines start getting blurred, you'll get a host of questions and arguments that could have been avoided by knowing that X came from this source and Y came from this other source, and OK the first source is canon and the second one isn't. Speaking from the painful experience of seeing this happen many times before with other franchises--well, it's always good to keep source material as clear as possible. <br />
:::One final comment: It only takes one or two dedicated fans to update the wiki on a manga volume and it seems Kazumi has those fans. I don't see why people are concerned it'll get neglected. Even if Kazumi updates are delayed because of Oriko's premiere, that would only be reflecting the fanbase interests and the wiki doing what it's suppose to: providing the info that's most interesting and timely to the fanbase. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 15:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay, I get your point better now, and it makes sense indeed. We just have to be careful to link the pages properly to give the "Manga" part of the wiki the attention it desserves, and to carefully state what should go where. The easiest way to do so would probably be to use a new namespace, "Manga:", for all those pages, right? <br>Also, another advantage I see in your way of separating things is that character pages (as well as others) won't grow any bigger that way. If we merge both the anime and manga info into one page, then it'd grow into a wall of text even bigger than it is now. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:29, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In all seriousness, have you ever seen any wiki related to some fictional work to have many pages about the same character for different media he/she appears in? The only example I am aware of is Asuka from Evangelion on the [http://wiki.evageeks.org EvaGeeks wiki]. Since her name and biography is quite different in the Rebuild movies, they chose to just mention her Rebuild version briefly in the main article ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Langley_Soryu Asuka Langley Soryu]) and make a separate article for the Rebuild character ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Shikinami_Langley Asuka Shikinami Langley]).<br />
:::::But look at [http://wiki.evageeks.org/Shinji_Ikari the page about Shinji]. There are several paragraphs about him in the original series and The End of Eva (treated jointly), and then subsections "in the manga", "in other Eva-base manga", "in Rebuild of Eva". They have no speculah section, but a trivia section titled "Notes", so it kind of evens out ;)<br />
:::::Anyway, the Madoka manga does not really differ ''that'' much from the anime. Even though I kind of outdid myself [[Manga differences|spotting almost every single difference]], most of them are fairly insignificant in terms of character development. Knowing the exact wording of Mami's wish or not? Sayaka killing the men on the train or not? Charlotte looking different in her caterpillar form? Kyubey having facial expression or not? Do they really justify making separate pages for anime and manga versions of every single character? I don't think so.<br />
:::::The only appearance of Madoka character in Kazumi is Kyubey's cameo and Madoka's silhouette as an illustration of a Puella Magi, which are totally insignificant for anything other than noting it. I don't think we'll ever see other anime characters in Kazumi, since it takes place in a different city. And Kazumi isn't in conflict with anime canon in terms of "the laws of the universe".<br />
:::::Oriko will be a different beast, because many of Madoka's main characters are also Oriko's main characters. But even if it will be in direct conflict with the anime canon, I vote for just having an "In other media" section, and then subsections "In ''Madoka'' manga", "In ''Oriko'' manga" etc. We don't have two separate Madokas (or Mamis, Homuras, Kyoukos, Kyubeys), it's the same character. And having many timelines doesn't change it (can you seriously imagine having separate page for eg. Keiichi from Higurashi for every arc?). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::So in the end it all comes down to how much difference there is between sources. If existing characters start changing a lot in one of the series, then they may need a separate page, but not if it's just minor changes/no changes at all, where a single section would be enough ... (note that there isn't much difference between both solution if the pages are linked proprely)<br>Anyway, I have to admit I don't follow any of the manga series, so I'll leave the debate to you guys. Just one last suggestion: why don't we do as usual, i.e. solving problems when they're here? We could just add stuff to the existing pages for now, and start thinking of another organization if it gets too messy in the future right? None of the pages look like they'd need a refactoring in the near future to me, and we still barely know anything about Kazumi/Oriko Magica so it's a bit hard to anticipate at this rate ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, sorry, I saw this discussion as a future direction, e.g. after Oriko and Kazumi's new volumes are out. Right now even the manga pages aren't even half as long as say, Homura's character page. So they're fine as one-pagers at the moment.<br />
::::::Hm, I think you're misunderstanding in thinking there'd be a "Manga Homura" page versus "Anime Homura" page. What I'm proposing is a "Manga Character page" for each manga so for instance, Kazumi would have a page listing all its characters. Madoka and Oriko's manga would provide for anime characters: a blurb description, a link to the anime-specific characters page, then list things unique to that manga. Then for Oriko it would list all the manga-specific characters like the three new girls, witches, etc. This to me is far clearer and easier for users than adding all the manga-only characters in Oriko and Kazumi to the already long list of characters, and then add more sections to the already lengthy anime character pages. I hear you about the wikis with the Eva examples and that makes sense when you normally have brief, general summaries that you can put together where there's consensus, and easily see where there's major differences from different sources. I personally prefer that format for character pages and I'd be for it if things were rolled up in summary format. But I see Madoka's wiki is different with very detailed levels of information for well, everything (like the summary paragraphs of all the manga vs. anime differences...that's not something you normally see on a wiki), and people seemed inclined in only adding and not trimming things back. When things are that detailed, it makes sense to separate out pages to reduce length and confusion. Madoka's manga doesn't have much but if people show as much interest in detailing things for Oriko, those character pages can really get out-of-hand. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::OK, I think I see your point now, and it seems we don't really differ much, if at all ;) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::::<s>Full-blown discussion engaged. Just as keikaku.</s><br>Don't mind me addressing initial ponderings, I was away all day. First, of course a proper separation is needed. I never in any way doubted that. The issue was "how", not "if", and you handled better than I would have. So, two main lines of thought, so far: a strong separation between anime and manga stuff, or a higher level of interaction, while asserting their differences. I must go with the last one. Character pages for ''at least'' the major manga characters (well... it's not like Madoka follows that rule), "In other media" sections for anime ones, and a "manga characters" section at the Characters page.<br>But I do absolutely agree that the differences in canon must be properly stated. Maybe some sort of header on both saying: <br><br>(NOTE: It is unclear how canonical the events of the manga editions are towards the anime. Use caution.)<br><br>Or something of the kind (shorter, of course). <br>As for things getting out of hand... that's what were here for, no? Although I do not believe things will go down that road. If they didn't with the anime (or rather: they did, but we rode through the storm), I find it hard to believe it will happen with Oriko, no matter the popularity. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here's a suggestion. Stop me if I'm wrong. Character pages, IMO, should be divided like this: <br />
*Brief Summary, First Appearance <br />
*Personality (Brief Overview) <br />
*History (backstory+role in the anime; this section would clearly point out that a character is NOT from the anime in the case of manga characters) <br />
*In the Manga (information may not be canon; use section to give an overview of what they do in each manga series, if applicable; for example, this would be a good place to note things like 'in the manga, <so and so forth>'s weapon is slightly different' or 'in the manga, <so and so forth> actually kills <unimportant characters on a train>')<br />
*Powers, Weapons & Abilities <br />
*Trivia <br />
*Gallery<br />
*Link to Speculah Page<br />
<br />
As it is right now, I won't lie, character pages look like shit. They're full of weird speculah, people have a tendency to use the various fields as mini-forums for discussion (instead of the talk pages), the official info sections are basically heaps of stuff, and the pages are NOT easy to read. Compare this to any other established wiki with dedicated character pages and... yeah, this is definitely a weird way to do it. More to the point: people need to stop using the character pages as discussion forums. They need to use the talk pages for that. If I'm wrong, then I guess it's no use hanging around and offering contributions now and again; I must have some odd, incompatible way of thinking for the people on this wiki.<br />
<br />
:Well I agree to the rest we should make a character page. However we don't had much official images of the characters from Kazumi. Like separating the character tablet of Madoka and Kazumi. -[[User:Dandan550|Dandan550]] 07:20, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I agree that the character pages need a cleanup, and actually, [[Wishlist|it's in the wishlist]]. I also agree that the speculah section should be a little more formal, and not "I think this ... I disagree with him ...". I don't see a problem with people adding sub-points to a point of speculah, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tsundere/Anime tvtropes-like], but we should just be careful not to turn it into a talkpage (i.e. we should avoid personal opinion and prefer neutral speech for instance).<br>As for the speculah section, if they're written correctly (and maybe cleaned up, like Homura's page), I don't see a reason to move them to another page. Since you're talking about other established wiki, just look at [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo the Touhou wiki] for instance: there is also a part of speculah on the characters pages, even though it's far smaller than here (I don't think that delirium about Yukari's name is canon, but I may be mistaken).<br>So yeah in conclusion I agree with you, except that I'd leave the speculah on the page if I were you. Also, I'm nitpicking here but I'm not sure "weapons and abilities" need a section on its own. What is there to write, except "Madoka uses a bow and has the ability to throw random stuff when things go downhill"? There's also [[Weapons|a page]] detailing what the weapons are, and so on.<br><br>tl;dr I agree with your way of doing things, with some minor changes. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 08:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::'Powers, abilities, etc' could link to the magic/magic speculah/weapon pages for more indepth outlooks. But for example, such a section on Homura's page would list out her shield, how it works (hourglass/one month), the timestopping, etc. The alternative would be to start including manga characters' stuff on those pages, which... risks making them swell and swell.<br />
:Thinking about this again, I'm starting to think we may want to make character pages for ''all'' of the characters, not just the major ones. Whether or not they are "significant", they are still part of the franchise, and the wiki should keep organization even if it means making an article for a character nobody cares about. At least, even a supporting character in, say, ''Kazumi'' would be more important than, say, the Hospital Staff in ''Madoka''. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 06:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I agree. I wasn't sure what the reaction would be, so I just put everything about them in the [[Pleiades Saints]] page. There is just one problem: with the small amount of info we have so far, it'll be impossible to use the new character page setup. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:42, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just wanted to verify if I'm understanding the new proposed structure correctly, regarding the structure of the character breakdown.<br />
<br />
Setting - All Anime specific<br />
*Characters - 1) Character Summary Table[http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Characters] -> 1.5) Individual Characters pages, now added manga sections ex: [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Homura_Akemi]<br />
*Locations<br />
*Glossary<br />
*Episodes<br />
<br />
Manga - Manga specific<br />
*Madoka - 1) Chapters subpage<br />
*Kazumi - 1) Chapters subpage, 2) Manga-specific Characters Summary table -> 2.5) Individual Characters pages <br />
*Oriko - 1) Chapters subpage, 2) Manga-specific Characters Summary table -> 2.5) Individual Characters pages<br />
<br />
Is this correct? --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 08:34, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:A lot of wikis (like the Haruhi Wiki, which I'm currently managing) have two character formats, one for major characters with a format with lots of detailed information, and one for characters we don't know much about and thus have a much more condensed format. Compare [http://haruhi.wikia.com/wiki/Kyon this] (major character) and [http://haruhi.wikia.com/wiki/Sasaki this] (minor character). Obviously this wiki would have a more organized format, but you get what I mean. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 19:02, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Spoiler tags ==<br />
<br />
I'm posting this in the Kazumi Magica talkpage, but it is not limited to Kazumi, but rather to the whole wiki. Kazumi Magica page can act as an example, and also helps me bring attention, since much of the wiki work now revolves around it ;)<br />
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Anyway - I feel the {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} is quite overused. I am using ir myself, following the common practice, but I somehow feel this is wrong. I even have a feeling that the inline spoiler tag is not well suited for the structure and character of this wiki. It works quite well on TVtropes, which has a more constant structure of pages, but... have you ever seen something like that on any other wiki? (what's more, our inline spoiler tag being black makes it less visually neat than TVtropes' white tag)<br />
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The idea is noble, but it leads to some weird situations. Here on Kazumi Magica page, having "Pleiades Saints" header spoilered, or even entire Chapter 4 summary doesn't look like it is what we've wanted...<br />
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I was talking about other established wikis above. The [http://wiki.evageeks.org/ EvaGeeks wiki] has only a spoiler warning box, and even more - uses it just for "recent media" (eg. the Rebuild movies). [http://starwars.wikia.com/ Wookiepedia] doesn't seem to have a spoiler tag ''at all'' (likely due to a line of thought that a wiki of some fictional work is primarily for people familiar with said work - it actually makes sense to me). [http://soranowoto.wikia.com/ So Ra No Wo To wiki], which may have been some kind of inspiration for ours (SRNWT being the original ''speculah'' anime) also only has a spoiler box... and doesn't use it anywhere. Spoiler boxes are also only kind of spoiler tags found on [http://en.touhouwiki.net/ Touhou Wiki] mentioned above and. Wikipedia actually got rid of ''all'' spoiler tags they once had.<br />
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tl;dr - I propose on cleaning the wiki of most (or even all) usage of {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} and strongly discouraging its use in new content (or even deleting it altogether). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:13, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
: As the one who used Spoiler tags on this page, I'm personally following a "Avoid spoiling major events of the previous two chapters" rule for Kazumi just in case no-one has seen it yet. Once Chapter 5 comes out I'd remove the Pleiades Saint spoilers, for example. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 10:17, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Actually, it's possible to put a reference in the spoiler box. It only works with the anime episodes right now, but I'll edit it so that it accepts manga chapters too. Anyway, nothing refrains you of adding a spoiler box at the top of the section/page, which explains what is spoilered. See [[Template:Spoilers]] (subject to change in the following minutes/hours). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:Yeah, I started a discussion going in the same direction on [[Talk:Episode_12#Spoilers|the ep12 talkpage]], which is basically a black page at the moment. I agree with you in that spoilerish paragraphs should be tagged with a box, not with the inline tag. As its name states, the inline tag was at first meant for ... inline spoilers, i.e. words or parts of a sentence that could be spoilerish, and difficult to tag otherwise. Using them for a whole paragraph, or for headers, is just wrong usage. I wouldn't go as far as completely removing this tag, but we sure need clear guidelines regarding its usage.<br>On the aesthetic part, I can try making it white if you find it less visually aggressive (the [[Episode 12]] page isn't really visually pleasant at the moment, I agree). Problem with the white spoiler tag is the opposite as the black one: you miss one more easily. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Changed the spoiler tags to something TVtropes-like, i.e. white with gray bottom border. Tell me what you think about it. (I didn't find how to hide the links though, "a" and "a:visited" don't seem to work for some reason ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 11:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Links weren't hidden in the black version, either (though they were barely visible as dark blue on black). For the links, it works when you'll use <code>.inline-spoilers, .inline-spoilers a { color: white !important; } .inline-spoilers:hover { color: black !important; }</code>. However, then the tags won't get un-spoilered on hover, so you'll have to add something like <code>.inline-spoilers:hover a { color: #0645ad !important; }</code> and so on for other link classes (<code>a.stub</code>, <code>a.new</code> and also the visited and active versions, if you care), which is kind of ugly as per design robustness, but... works ;)<br />As for the aesthetics of the white version, it looks great, at least for my tastes :) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 21:02, 7 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kazumi_Magica&diff=12742Talk:Kazumi Magica2011-05-08T19:02:49Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Expansion */</p>
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<div>Is it "Niko" or "Nico"? The scanlations use the latter. -[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:23, 7 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Wait. Independent chapters? ==<br />
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I'm seeing Chapters One through Three of Kazumi on Mangafox. Yet the first volume is only coming out in May 12th?<br />
I am kinda nob when it comes to manga... so, does "serialization" means that these chapters are coming out in Kirara Forward each month, before they're packed together and released as a volume? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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: Yes. Most manga series are published chapter-by-chapter each week or month in a magazine, with volumes being released whenever a set number of chapters is reached. [[Special:Contributions/64.89.144.100|64.89.144.100]] 20:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::In that case, should we add each chapter's release date? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:::I believe a release date along with a summary of the chapters would be in order, with proper spoiler tags of course.<br />
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== Runes? ==<br />
I think there is some runic text in Kazumi chapter 1. Anyone have a translation? - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 13:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Do you have a scan or something? Might as well try and translate them, I'm pretty bored anyway. Also, we should probably make a page for them then, [[Runes:Kazumi Magica]] or something. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 14:26, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c001/4.html I see them here, but suddenly I'm not sure if they were added there by the scanlators or not.] There ''might'' be some [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c003/5.html here] as well, I'm not sure. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 15:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, the first one is obviously added by the scanlator. It reads "scanlated by /a/non for /a/non, raws from [something I couldn't read due to quality]". --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The mysterious characters on the second one don't look like any recognized runes to me. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In case you're talking about "入口は??", that's japanese. I can't make it quite out, but it should say something like "Entrance this way". --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Oh my. I know enough Japanese to know what 入口 is, but it's such an obfuscated font I'd never tell it's kanji. Thanks for pointing it out! --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The last scanlator runeword matches the raw provider name in the watermark in the next page, and it's mixing archaic and modern.<br />
::::: Thank you all very much, sorry for the inconvenience. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Juubey? ==<br />
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Where'd you get this from? O.o [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:[[File:Juubey.jpg|200px]]<br />
:It seems that scans leaked on 2ch. [[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 13:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Now notice the shadow next to Juubey in the first panel. Juubey may not be an Incubator after all... -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:02, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Jubey's definitely an Incubator. The girl on the second page (I forget her name) calls him/her/it "the fairy that made us into puella magi". It seems that Kyubey is present on the first page, though...--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Exactly. Kyubey is a hive mind. Why would he need to talk to himself like that? I think the fact that it's a "fairy" is going to be a major point. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Even if there's a hive mind, that doesn't mean they can simply telepathically talk or instantly know what another Incubator is up to. Like the Human Interfaces in Haruhi.--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Volume 1 ==<br />
Dumb question: I would imagine that since it's being released the same time as ''Oriko'' it might get lost in the shuffle, but is there anyone who's planning to look through it and see if there are any differences/additions to the original serialized chapters? -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If someone will upload the scans (raws are fine) of the tankobon somewhere (preferably as some DDL, but torrent is OK, too), then I can do that. But seeing how Kazumi is rather unpopular, I'm not so sure of the scan availability. I don't plan on buying Kazumi myself. Not in the slightest. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 20:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Yeah, that's what concerns me. I'd do it myself, if I could get the scans, but...--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 21:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It is? Uh... it's got half a million views in MangaFox, but then again, I guess that doesn't translate in the "Madoka is sold out EVERYWHERE" thing we had with the original manga. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: It's more that I'm worried Kazumi will be ignored when Oriko comes out. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 22:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::: Well obviously. Slapping the main characters on it = automatic profit. And Kazumi was just getting intresting :/ (well, to most people. I've liked it since the start. Though it might just be because I love Kazumi and real tech mixed with magic (the GPS, Yuuri's SMGs are ''almost'' [[wikipedia:Walther MPL|Walther MPL]]'s, etc.)) --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Expansion ==<br />
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This is a question that also applies to Oriko.<br>Right now, we have a single page to cover everything in each manga release. Granted, they're nearly not the same scale as Madoka, and one of them is just a medium conversion with few changes. But still, there's more to it than just this.<br />
The most obvious example being a page for Kazumi herself, Umika and Kaoru, and another for the Pleiades Saints. And maybe then think about other stuff.<br>I volunteer to work on it, but I won't be able to until the weekend, university and fencing are keeping me locked up.<br>But that's not really my main question. That would be: should it be done? Okay, this is "Puella Magi wiki", not "Madoka wiki". But given the obviously huge focus on Madoka, and the apparent lack of interest in the spin-offs (so far), is it justifiable? <br>I certainly think so, but I want to hear from you. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 00:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I myself am not interested in the spinoffs, but definitely think that ''Kazumi'' at least should get its own set of character pages and the like. My only problem is with ''Oriko'': the current translation of the second volume's synopsis calls it the "concluding" volume, meaning that the series most likely isn't going to have enough content to justify taking up more than one page -- especially considering that any new insight into the anime characters can just be entered onto ''their'' preexisting pages. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 03:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I support Kazumi pages. Oriko at the very least should get her own page. It's approximately 8 chapters, which is relatively significant. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 05:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think it's best to separate manga characterizations from the anime ones. Oriko is described as a spin-off, so events and characterizations may not be considered canon to the anime. We know even the direct adaptation manga has significant differences from the anime. For example, the manga shows Sayaka killing the men on the train whereas Shinbo in the anime chose not to go that route. Either interpretation was acceptable to Urobuchi who left the scenario open to both so neither are technically wrong but it would be confusing and a bit misleading to not clearly state what was in the anime and what was in the manga. This would also apply to the background information on Madoka's characters from Oriko. I'm all for having it included but the source should be clearly stated and preferably categorized so it avoids any confusion. As for Kazumi, as long as the pages stay under the manga section, it sounds fine, just don't want it under the characters page where people might get confused with them and the Madoka anime characters. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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SUGGESTION: Since the character pages all need to be cleaned up a little big in general (speculah about characters should be moved to a new speculah page for characters, for example, and be tagged right/wrong/uncomfirmed), redundant discussions need to be trimmed, etc etc, just add a "in the manga" section to each character page that will, as necessary, detail their involvement in the mangas. Furthermore, I believe that each major manga character (so Kazumi and Oriko, at least) should get their own page on the characters page. Just add a section for manga-only characters.<br />
:The character pages do need clean-up however I don't think Kazumi or any other manga-only characters (like in Oriko) should be included with the Madoka ones. The website is dedicated to Puella Magi (or Mahou Shoujo) Madoka Magica. That means the character pages should really only be dedicated to those characters in the anime. The manga only characters belong in the manga section as something in addition that might interest people, but isn't the main focus or draw to this site. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 07:41, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I agree with the sentiment, but why have a wiki for the anime and a wiki for the manga when we could have a single unified wiki that properly identifies what comes from the manga and what comes from the anime? This just seems like it'll split the fanbase between working on a manga wiki and working on an anime wiki... and guess which one will get more attention and which one will be incomplete and barely worked on if that happens? I'm not seeing the harm in adding manga material, as long as it is clearly identified and marked which is what. Not only that, but knowing that the mangas are being produced by the same company, they may reveal things that will fill in the blanks for the anime. If a decision can't be reached by single individuals, though... why not hold a poll?<br />
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::Actually, the wiki is called "puella-magi.net" (as opposed to the previous one who was madoka-centered), and the homepage states "(...) as well as any subsequent works.", so like the guy above me (who didn't sign his comment by the way), I think manga characters do have their place here. Why not just add a new row "Manga characters" in the [[Characters]]'s table? (just like Madoka's family and classmates) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:25, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Let me see if I can explain my thinking in clearer, more straight-forward fashion. The most logical way I see to fix the issues discussed is for: the manga to have its own subsection (equivalent to setting, products, media etc.) and in that section, each manga would have a separate listing under it. Then, you can break out the manga into a chapters and character page. This is a simple way to solve the issues of growth and also clearly separates what happens in the anime from what happens in the manga. You can also then provide a link from the anime characters pointing to the manga character page(s) to give additional information/discrepancies between what occurred in the anime and manga, but having separate pages makes it easy to see what characteristic was derived from which source. <br />
:::On the other hand, if you'd did it the other way people are suggesting, adding manga-only characters to the character section, it could easily become confusing to someone who is not familiar with both the anime and manga. It's also inconsistent with the format of the section under settings where location, glossary and (of course) episodes are all anime-specific. Then you may open up the can of worms where people start adding manga-only items to location, glossary, etc. If you say well why does any of this matter? It's because there are always discrepancies between "canon anime," "canon manga," and "spin-off manga," that are viewed as different level of authority by fans and it's important to them to know the distinction. Anytime those lines start getting blurred, you'll get a host of questions and arguments that could have been avoided by knowing that X came from this source and Y came from this other source, and OK the first source is canon and the second one isn't. Speaking from the painful experience of seeing this happen many times before with other franchises--well, it's always good to keep source material as clear as possible. <br />
:::One final comment: It only takes one or two dedicated fans to update the wiki on a manga volume and it seems Kazumi has those fans. I don't see why people are concerned it'll get neglected. Even if Kazumi updates are delayed because of Oriko's premiere, that would only be reflecting the fanbase interests and the wiki doing what it's suppose to: providing the info that's most interesting and timely to the fanbase. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 15:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay, I get your point better now, and it makes sense indeed. We just have to be careful to link the pages properly to give the "Manga" part of the wiki the attention it desserves, and to carefully state what should go where. The easiest way to do so would probably be to use a new namespace, "Manga:", for all those pages, right? <br>Also, another advantage I see in your way of separating things is that character pages (as well as others) won't grow any bigger that way. If we merge both the anime and manga info into one page, then it'd grow into a wall of text even bigger than it is now. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:29, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In all seriousness, have you ever seen any wiki related to some fictional work to have many pages about the same character for different media he/she appears in? The only example I am aware of is Asuka from Evangelion on the [http://wiki.evageeks.org EvaGeeks wiki]. Since her name and biography is quite different in the Rebuild movies, they chose to just mention her Rebuild version briefly in the main article ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Langley_Soryu Asuka Langley Soryu]) and make a separate article for the Rebuild character ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Shikinami_Langley Asuka Shikinami Langley]).<br />
:::::But look at [http://wiki.evageeks.org/Shinji_Ikari the page about Shinji]. There are several paragraphs about him in the original series and The End of Eva (treated jointly), and then subsections "in the manga", "in other Eva-base manga", "in Rebuild of Eva". They have no speculah section, but a trivia section titled "Notes", so it kind of evens out ;)<br />
:::::Anyway, the Madoka manga does not really differ ''that'' much from the anime. Even though I kind of outdid myself [[Manga differences|spotting almost every single difference]], most of them are fairly insignificant in terms of character development. Knowing the exact wording of Mami's wish or not? Sayaka killing the men on the train or not? Charlotte looking different in her caterpillar form? Kyubey having facial expression or not? Do they really justify making separate pages for anime and manga versions of every single character? I don't think so.<br />
:::::The only appearance of Madoka character in Kazumi is Kyubey's cameo and Madoka's silhouette as an illustration of a Puella Magi, which are totally insignificant for anything other than noting it. I don't think we'll ever see other anime characters in Kazumi, since it takes place in a different city. And Kazumi isn't in conflict with anime canon in terms of "the laws of the universe".<br />
:::::Oriko will be a different beast, because many of Madoka's main characters are also Oriko's main characters. But even if it will be in direct conflict with the anime canon, I vote for just having an "In other media" section, and then subsections "In ''Madoka'' manga", "In ''Oriko'' manga" etc. We don't have two separate Madokas (or Mamis, Homuras, Kyoukos, Kyubeys), it's the same character. And having many timelines doesn't change it (can you seriously imagine having separate page for eg. Keiichi from Higurashi for every arc?). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::So in the end it all comes down to how much difference there is between sources. If existing characters start changing a lot in one of the series, then they may need a separate page, but not if it's just minor changes/no changes at all, where a single section would be enough ... (note that there isn't much difference between both solution if the pages are linked proprely)<br>Anyway, I have to admit I don't follow any of the manga series, so I'll leave the debate to you guys. Just one last suggestion: why don't we do as usual, i.e. solving problems when they're here? We could just add stuff to the existing pages for now, and start thinking of another organization if it gets too messy in the future right? None of the pages look like they'd need a refactoring in the near future to me, and we still barely know anything about Kazumi/Oriko Magica so it's a bit hard to anticipate at this rate ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, sorry, I saw this discussion as a future direction, e.g. after Oriko and Kazumi's new volumes are out. Right now even the manga pages aren't even half as long as say, Homura's character page. So they're fine as one-pagers at the moment.<br />
::::::Hm, I think you're misunderstanding in thinking there'd be a "Manga Homura" page versus "Anime Homura" page. What I'm proposing is a "Manga Character page" for each manga so for instance, Kazumi would have a page listing all its characters. Madoka and Oriko's manga would provide for anime characters: a blurb description, a link to the anime-specific characters page, then list things unique to that manga. Then for Oriko it would list all the manga-specific characters like the three new girls, witches, etc. This to me is far clearer and easier for users than adding all the manga-only characters in Oriko and Kazumi to the already long list of characters, and then add more sections to the already lengthy anime character pages. I hear you about the wikis with the Eva examples and that makes sense when you normally have brief, general summaries that you can put together where there's consensus, and easily see where there's major differences from different sources. I personally prefer that format for character pages and I'd be for it if things were rolled up in summary format. But I see Madoka's wiki is different with very detailed levels of information for well, everything (like the summary paragraphs of all the manga vs. anime differences...that's not something you normally see on a wiki), and people seemed inclined in only adding and not trimming things back. When things are that detailed, it makes sense to separate out pages to reduce length and confusion. Madoka's manga doesn't have much but if people show as much interest in detailing things for Oriko, those character pages can really get out-of-hand. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::OK, I think I see your point now, and it seems we don't really differ much, if at all ;) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::::<s>Full-blown discussion engaged. Just as keikaku.</s><br>Don't mind me addressing initial ponderings, I was away all day. First, of course a proper separation is needed. I never in any way doubted that. The issue was "how", not "if", and you handled better than I would have. So, two main lines of thought, so far: a strong separation between anime and manga stuff, or a higher level of interaction, while asserting their differences. I must go with the last one. Character pages for ''at least'' the major manga characters (well... it's not like Madoka follows that rule), "In other media" sections for anime ones, and a "manga characters" section at the Characters page.<br>But I do absolutely agree that the differences in canon must be properly stated. Maybe some sort of header on both saying: <br><br>(NOTE: It is unclear how canonical the events of the manga editions are towards the anime. Use caution.)<br><br>Or something of the kind (shorter, of course). <br>As for things getting out of hand... that's what were here for, no? Although I do not believe things will go down that road. If they didn't with the anime (or rather: they did, but we rode through the storm), I find it hard to believe it will happen with Oriko, no matter the popularity. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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Here's a suggestion. Stop me if I'm wrong. Character pages, IMO, should be divided like this: <br />
*Brief Summary, First Appearance <br />
*Personality (Brief Overview) <br />
*History (backstory+role in the anime; this section would clearly point out that a character is NOT from the anime in the case of manga characters) <br />
*In the Manga (information may not be canon; use section to give an overview of what they do in each manga series, if applicable; for example, this would be a good place to note things like 'in the manga, <so and so forth>'s weapon is slightly different' or 'in the manga, <so and so forth> actually kills <unimportant characters on a train>')<br />
*Powers, Weapons & Abilities <br />
*Trivia <br />
*Gallery<br />
*Link to Speculah Page<br />
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As it is right now, I won't lie, character pages look like shit. They're full of weird speculah, people have a tendency to use the various fields as mini-forums for discussion (instead of the talk pages), the official info sections are basically heaps of stuff, and the pages are NOT easy to read. Compare this to any other established wiki with dedicated character pages and... yeah, this is definitely a weird way to do it. More to the point: people need to stop using the character pages as discussion forums. They need to use the talk pages for that. If I'm wrong, then I guess it's no use hanging around and offering contributions now and again; I must have some odd, incompatible way of thinking for the people on this wiki.<br />
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:Well I agree to the rest we should make a character page. However we don't had much official images of the characters from Kazumi. Like separating the character tablet of Madoka and Kazumi. -[[User:Dandan550|Dandan550]] 07:20, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::I agree that the character pages need a cleanup, and actually, [[Wishlist|it's in the wishlist]]. I also agree that the speculah section should be a little more formal, and not "I think this ... I disagree with him ...". I don't see a problem with people adding sub-points to a point of speculah, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tsundere/Anime tvtropes-like], but we should just be careful not to turn it into a talkpage (i.e. we should avoid personal opinion and prefer neutral speech for instance).<br>As for the speculah section, if they're written correctly (and maybe cleaned up, like Homura's page), I don't see a reason to move them to another page. Since you're talking about other established wiki, just look at [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo the Touhou wiki] for instance: there is also a part of speculah on the characters pages, even though it's far smaller than here (I don't think that delirium about Yukari's name is canon, but I may be mistaken).<br>So yeah in conclusion I agree with you, except that I'd leave the speculah on the page if I were you. Also, I'm nitpicking here but I'm not sure "weapons and abilities" need a section on its own. What is there to write, except "Madoka uses a bow and has the ability to throw random stuff when things go downhill"? There's also [[Weapons|a page]] detailing what the weapons are, and so on.<br><br>tl;dr I agree with your way of doing things, with some minor changes. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 08:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::'Powers, abilities, etc' could link to the magic/magic speculah/weapon pages for more indepth outlooks. But for example, such a section on Homura's page would list out her shield, how it works (hourglass/one month), the timestopping, etc. The alternative would be to start including manga characters' stuff on those pages, which... risks making them swell and swell.<br />
:Thinking about this again, I'm starting to think we may want to make character pages for ''all'' of the characters, not just the major ones. Whether or not they are "significant", they are still part of the franchise, and the wiki should keep organization even if it means making an article for a character nobody cares about. At least, even a supporting character in, say, ''Kazumi'' would be more important than, say, the Hospital Staff in ''Madoka''. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 06:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I agree. I wasn't sure what the reaction would be, so I just put everything about them in the [[Pleiades Saints]] page. There is just one problem: with the small amount of info we have so far, it'll be impossible to use the new character page setup. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:42, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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Just wanted to verify if I'm understanding the new proposed structure correctly, regarding the structure of the character breakdown.<br />
<br />
Setting - All Anime specific<br />
*Characters - 1) Character Summary Table[http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Characters] -> 1.5) Individual Characters pages, now added manga sections ex: [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Homura_Akemi]<br />
*Locations<br />
*Glossary<br />
*Episodes<br />
<br />
Manga - Manga specific<br />
*Madoka - 1) Chapters subpage<br />
*Kazumi - 1) Chapters subpage, 2) Manga-specific Characters Summary table -> 2.5) Individual Characters pages <br />
*Oriko - 1) Chapters subpage, 2) Manga-specific Characters Summary table -> 2.5) Individual Characters pages<br />
<br />
Is this correct? --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 08:34, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:A lot of wikis (like the Haruhi Wiki, which I'm currently managing) have two character formats, one for major characters with a format with lots of detailed information, and one for characteres we don't know much about and have a much more condensed format. Compare [http://haruhi.wikia.com/wiki/Kyon this] (major character) and [http://haruhi.wikia.com/wiki/Sasaki this] (minor character). Obviously this wiki would have a more organized format, but you get what I mean. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 19:02, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Spoiler tags ==<br />
<br />
I'm posting this in the Kazumi Magica talkpage, but it is not limited to Kazumi, but rather to the whole wiki. Kazumi Magica page can act as an example, and also helps me bring attention, since much of the wiki work now revolves around it ;)<br />
<br />
Anyway - I feel the {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} is quite overused. I am using ir myself, following the common practice, but I somehow feel this is wrong. I even have a feeling that the inline spoiler tag is not well suited for the structure and character of this wiki. It works quite well on TVtropes, which has a more constant structure of pages, but... have you ever seen something like that on any other wiki? (what's more, our inline spoiler tag being black makes it less visually neat than TVtropes' white tag)<br />
<br />
The idea is noble, but it leads to some weird situations. Here on Kazumi Magica page, having "Pleiades Saints" header spoilered, or even entire Chapter 4 summary doesn't look like it is what we've wanted...<br />
<br />
I was talking about other established wikis above. The [http://wiki.evageeks.org/ EvaGeeks wiki] has only a spoiler warning box, and even more - uses it just for "recent media" (eg. the Rebuild movies). [http://starwars.wikia.com/ Wookiepedia] doesn't seem to have a spoiler tag ''at all'' (likely due to a line of thought that a wiki of some fictional work is primarily for people familiar with said work - it actually makes sense to me). [http://soranowoto.wikia.com/ So Ra No Wo To wiki], which may have been some kind of inspiration for ours (SRNWT being the original ''speculah'' anime) also only has a spoiler box... and doesn't use it anywhere. Spoiler boxes are also only kind of spoiler tags found on [http://en.touhouwiki.net/ Touhou Wiki] mentioned above and. Wikipedia actually got rid of ''all'' spoiler tags they once had.<br />
<br />
tl;dr - I propose on cleaning the wiki of most (or even all) usage of {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} and strongly discouraging its use in new content (or even deleting it altogether). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:13, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
: As the one who used Spoiler tags on this page, I'm personally following a "Avoid spoiling major events of the previous two chapters" rule for Kazumi just in case no-one has seen it yet. Once Chapter 5 comes out I'd remove the Pleiades Saint spoilers, for example. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 10:17, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Actually, it's possible to put a reference in the spoiler box. It only works with the anime episodes right now, but I'll edit it so that it accepts manga chapters too. Anyway, nothing refrains you of adding a spoiler box at the top of the section/page, which explains what is spoilered. See [[Template:Spoilers]] (subject to change in the following minutes/hours). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, I started a discussion going in the same direction on [[Talk:Episode_12#Spoilers|the ep12 talkpage]], which is basically a black page at the moment. I agree with you in that spoilerish paragraphs should be tagged with a box, not with the inline tag. As its name states, the inline tag was at first meant for ... inline spoilers, i.e. words or parts of a sentence that could be spoilerish, and difficult to tag otherwise. Using them for a whole paragraph, or for headers, is just wrong usage. I wouldn't go as far as completely removing this tag, but we sure need clear guidelines regarding its usage.<br>On the aesthetic part, I can try making it white if you find it less visually aggressive (the [[Episode 12]] page isn't really visually pleasant at the moment, I agree). Problem with the white spoiler tag is the opposite as the black one: you miss one more easily. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Changed the spoiler tags to something TVtropes-like, i.e. white with gray bottom border. Tell me what you think about it. (I didn't find how to hide the links though, "a" and "a:visited" don't seem to work for some reason ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 11:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Links weren't hidden in the black version, either (though they were barely visible as dark blue on black). For the links, it works when you'll use <code>.inline-spoilers, .inline-spoilers a { color: white !important; } .inline-spoilers:hover { color: black !important; }</code>. However, then the tags won't get un-spoilered on hover, so you'll have to add something like <code>.inline-spoilers:hover a { color: #0645ad !important; }</code> and so on for other link classes (<code>a.stub</code>, <code>a.new</code> and also the visited and active versions, if you care), which is kind of ugly as per design robustness, but... works ;)<br />As for the aesthetics of the white version, it looks great, at least for my tastes :) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 21:02, 7 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Pleiades_Saints&diff=12669Pleiades Saints2011-05-08T06:59:27Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Speculation */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Pleiades 1.png|thumb|300px|From left to right, Nico, Mirai, Saki and Satomi]]The '''Pleiades Saints''' is a team of Puellae Magi featured in [[Puella Magi Kazumi Magica: The Innocent Malice]]. Together, they fight witches in Asunaro city.<br />
<br />
Their name is taken from the [[wikipedia: Pleiades (star cluster)|Pleiades star cluster]], whose stars are named after the [[wikipedia:Pleiades|Pleiades]] of Greek mythology (a.k.a the Seven Sisters).<br />
<br />
==Members==<br />
<br />
The Pleiades Saints' current roster is composed of:<br />
<br />
[[File:Kazumi running.png|right|250px]]<br />
;:[[Kazumi]] (かずみ)<br />
:A girl with amnesia who can't remember anything except her name. Despite this, she keeps an innocent, cheerful and friendly personality. She is also a glutton for delicious foods. Eventually she was found by her roommates and partners, Kaoru and Umika. Her wish is currently unknown because she never told it to her friends before she lost her memories.<br>She is the team's sharpshooter, maintaining some distance from the opponent and firing powerful magic beams when the opportunity arises.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Kaoru 2.png|right|250px]]<br />
;:[[Kaoru]] (カオル)<br />
:An athletic soccer player living with Umika and Kazumi. A bright older sister figure who takes good care of things. She wished for a strong, healthy body that would let her play soccer.<br>She fights by dealing powerful kicks and ball strikes, stunning, distracting and wearing down the opponent.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Umika examining.png|right|250px]]<br />
;:[[Umika|Umika Misaki]] (御崎 海香)<br />
:A popular novelist who bought the trio's house with her earnings. Her reliable, mature aura changes completely when there's a deadline looming. She is close to Kaoru and thinks of Kazumi as a little sister. She wished for the chance to meet an editor who would publish her stories.<br>In battle, she uses her magical book to read the opponent's mind in order to figure out it's weakness and to improve the team's chances of success.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Saki 2.png|right|250px]]<br />
;:Saki Asami (浅海 サキ)<br />
:A mature and intelligent girl, she effectively acts as the Pleiades' leader. Cool and collected, she is apt at commanding the other girls both in battle and outside of it. She also cares not only for their safety, but for their morale. <br>In battle, she wields an electric rod, and can summon lightning at will from it. When transformed, her glasses become a single monocle and goes commando.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Mirai 1.png|right|220px]]<br />
;:Mirai Wakaba (若葉 みらい)<br />
:An impulsive girl with long, puffy hair. She is hotheaded and is not afraid to express her thoughts as loud as possible, and occasionally vents out her frustration on Kazumi by smacking her (especially when Kazumi begins doubting herself). She also thinks of herself highly, sometimes even calling herself "Mirai-sama". But deep down she is a caring girl.<br>Her individual abilities in battle are so far unknown.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Satomi 1.png|right|220px]]<br />
;:Satomi Usagi (宇佐木 里美)<br />
:A polite girl who loves animals, and wants to become a veterinarian when she grows up. Her wish was to gain the ability to talk to animals, which she uses to gather information. <br>Her individual abilities in battle are so far unknown. When transformed, her suit gives her a feline appearance, complete with cat ears, paws, and even a long tail. She also wields a cat shaped staff.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[File:Nico 2.png|right|300px]]<br />
;:Nico Kanna (神流 ニコ)<br />
:A tech expert and arguably the most intelligent of the group. She uses several pieces of high tech equipment, most notably a smartphone with an app that can read a witch's residual power wavelength and calibrate the girl's Soul Gems to track it more accurately. She is also able to quickly analyze situations, and notice subtle details the others don't. She is constantly seen with the same uninterested look on her face, which barely changes even when pierced with an arrow.<br>While transformed, she dons an aviator suit, complete with goggles, a harness and a parachute backpack. In accordance with her tech expertise, she is able to summon CD-like disks, which are likely throwable weapons with cutting properties.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
[[File:Fili Del Toano.png|thumb|400px|''Fili Del Toano'' - A quick joint attack]][[File:Episodio Incrocio.png|thumb|400px|''Episodio Incrocio'', their joint bind spell.]]<br />
Though Kazumi, Kaoru and Umika were present since the start, the Pleiades were only introduced in chapter 3. After a witch traps Kaoru and Umika inside of itself and takes off, four mysterious girl come to Kazumi's help. They introduce themselves as the Pleiades Saints, a seven-girl witch-hunting team of which Kazumi and her abducted friends are also a part of. Together, they search for Kaoru and Umika across town. While they search, the mysterious girl from previous chapters {spoiler|, Yuuri,}} attacks Kazumi, having disguised herself as Satomi to separate her from the rest of the team. Overwhelmed, Kazumi is on the verge of defeat, but her four companions intervene. Kazumi is then held at gunpoint, causing them to hesitate, but she screams out to them to attack anyway. They do so, and fire a joint attack at the mysterious girl: ''Fili Del Toano''. It causes a large explosion, but the magical girl gets away. Kazumi is only lightly wounded.<br />
<br />
They reunite at Umika's house for a strategy meeting. While analyzing the situation, Saki, their presumed leader, makes a breakthrough. She discovers the symbol the witch left across town was also on the back of a book, leading her to conclude the witch has possessed a bookmobile. After filling up on Kazumi's delicious food, they head out to the last stop on the bookmobile schedule to intercept it. They successfully do so, and, leaving Kazumi on the outside to strike at command, rescue Kaoru and Umika just in time. Together, the six of them bind the witch with ''Episodio Incrocio''. However, Nico's GPS/com unit breaks, leaving them unable to give Kazumi the needed signal. Umika, thinking quickly, commands them to use candy flutes given to them by Kazumi. The sound reaches her, and the witch is destroyed by ''Limiti Esterni''.<br />
<br />
While they reunite and celebrate their victory, they are attacked by the mysterious Puella Magi from earlier, Yuuri. She kidnaps Kazumi, and orders them to go to the Asunaro Dome at midnight if they want Kazumi back. While waiting for the deadline, they speculate on Yuuri's motivations. At the right time, they head to the dome, but due to a force barrier they can do nothing but watch as Yuuri enacts her plane. Yuuri states her objective is to seek revenge on them. She interprets the Pleiades' failure to recognize her as having been "just that insignificant" to the girls. She then removes her hat, causing a shocked Umika to recognize her.<br />
<br />
==Teamwork==<br />
Given that none of the Saints appear to be overwhelmingly powerful, their strength comes from a number of joint tactics and attacks they have developed to make their numeric advantage as effective as possible.<br />
<br />
Their main strategy appear to be to take advantage of Kazumi's powerful magic beams. The six remaining girls engage the enemy, wearing it down and immobilizing it by casting a joint sealing spell, ''Episodio Incrocio'' (English: ''Crossover Episode''). This makes it a sitting duck for Kazumi to finish off.<br />
<br />
That is not their only joint attack. For situations that require a quick strike, ''Fili Del Toano'' is an option. It is a powerful attack that creates a large explosion on the target, aimed by laser beams fired from the girl's staffs.<br />
<br />
Outside of battle, they coordinate their search patterns to improve their chances of finding a witch. Along with Nico's app, this allows them to cover a wide area in just a few hours.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
* "Pleiades Saints" is a pun: "Pleiades Saints" and the Pleiades Star Cluster are pronounced the same way in Japanese and, when written, differ by only one character. Being named after a star cluster also produces another [[Astronomy]] reference.<br />
* They seem to have all contracted with Juubey, who cleans their Soul Gems.<br />
* Satomi's surname is meaningful, given her love for animals. Usagi means rabbit.<br />
* Twin cat-like fangs can be seen when Satomi fully opens her mouth. Together with her cat-like appearance when transformed, and her "Meow" shouts in battle, she can be seen as the (mandatory) cat girl in the Madoka universe.<br />
* When transformed, Saki sports a monocle, a military-style outfit, a beret and a rod, giving her the appearance of a high ranking military officer. It is quite suitable to her position within the group.<br />
* In contrast with her tough appearance, Saki seems to enjoy reading love stories. In her backpack, titles such as "My First Love Was The Milky Way" and "Lemon Kiss Stories" can be seen.<br />
<br />
==Speculation==<br />
{{spoilers|media=anime|episode=9}}<br />
* Given Nico's use of high tech and the ability to summon CD-like disks, it is peculated she made a wish concerning technology, for example to become a great programmer. <br />
* Yuuri, the mysterious girl who attacks them multiple times, holds a grudge against them from their shared past, though the girls appear to have no recollection of it until Umika recognizes her face. This past is apparently a very troubled one, and Yuuri believed she was being thought of as "insignificant". Note that Yuuri did indicate that her name and mysterious ghastly letter was somehow related to her identity.<br />
* Despite being named after the Seven Sisters of Greek mythology, [[wikipedia:Sterope (Pleiad)|Sterope]], [[wikipedia:Merope (Pleiades)|Merope]], [[wikipedia:Electra (Pleiad)|Electra]], [[wikipedia:Maia (mythology)|Maia]], [[wikipedia:Taygeta|Taygeta]], [[wikipedia:Celaeno|Celaeno]], and [[wikipedia:Alcyone (Pleiades)|Alcyone]] are only part of the nine brightest stars in the cluster. The other two stars are named after their parents, [[wikipedia:Atlas|Atlas]] and [[wikipedia:Pleione|Pleione]]. Given that the current roster of the Saints is composed of seven members, it is speculated that two of them are missing. Since Nico states they are named after the seven sisters, it leaves those two members as the "parents", or the most important (or senior) members of the team. <br>It is likely those two are Yuuri, who has a past connection to the group, and the mysterious girl in Yuuri's flashbacks, who seemed to be a friend of hers.<br />
* In the anime, magical girls worked alone or in small groups because the Grief Seeds they needed to clean their Soul Gems were a limited resource. Magical girls could easily clash over territory and were just as likely to compete than cooperate. When the Pleiades Saints were revealed to be a ''seven-member'' magical girl team, a number of readers wondered how that could be possible in this context. It was considered unlikely that there were enough witches in Asunaro City to support seven magical girls. Chapter 4 explained that Juubey, the fairy they contracted with, can clean their Soul Gems, meaning they don't need to compete for Grief Seeds. <br />
** What was left unexplained was is why this was done. Kyubey has never demonstrated the ability to clean Soul Gems in the anime. In fact, he actively seeked to have the girls corrupt their Soul Gems and turn into witches. One probable explanation is that from what we've seen, the Pleiades had fairly minior wishes and were therefore weaker magical girls. Being weak magical girls, they wouldn't become powerful witches, and thus they wouldn't produce a lot of energy when they transformed. It is then more efficient for Juubey to let them hunt Grief Seeds for him than to try and convert them into witches. <br>In purely mathematical terms, a team of weak Puella Magi capturing a more powerful witch than themselves using team tactics is more efficient when it comes to energy output.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery><br />
File:Satomi nyan nyan.png|Satomi demonstrating her ability. ''Good evenyan!''<br />
File:We're hungry!.png|Kazumi's cooking is in high demand within the Pleiades.<br />
File:Pleiades memory.png|One of Kazumi's flashbacks features the Pleiades. Notice how the girl in the witch hat resembles Yuuri: she wears stripped stockings and her witch hat isn't curved.<br />
File:Nico app.png|Nico explaining how her tracking app works.<br />
File:Pleiades mezzanotte.png|The Pleiades, sans Kazumi, playing candy flutes. For some reason, this is also an "attack", named ''Mezzanote Charmante''.<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kazumi_Magica&diff=12647Talk:Kazumi Magica2011-05-08T06:43:53Z<p>Aster Selene: derp. wow.</p>
<hr />
<div>Is it "Niko" or "Nico"? The scanlations use the latter. -[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:23, 7 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wait. Independent chapters? ==<br />
<br />
I'm seeing Chapters One through Three of Kazumi on Mangafox. Yet the first volume is only coming out in May 12th?<br />
I am kinda nob when it comes to manga... so, does "serialization" means that these chapters are coming out in Kirara Forward each month, before they're packed together and released as a volume? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yes. Most manga series are published chapter-by-chapter each week or month in a magazine, with volumes being released whenever a set number of chapters is reached. [[Special:Contributions/64.89.144.100|64.89.144.100]] 20:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::In that case, should we add each chapter's release date? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I believe a release date along with a summary of the chapters would be in order, with proper spoiler tags of course.<br />
<br />
== Runes? ==<br />
I think there is some runic text in Kazumi chapter 1. Anyone have a translation? - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 13:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Do you have a scan or something? Might as well try and translate them, I'm pretty bored anyway. Also, we should probably make a page for them then, [[Runes:Kazumi Magica]] or something. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 14:26, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c001/4.html I see them here, but suddenly I'm not sure if they were added there by the scanlators or not.] There ''might'' be some [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c003/5.html here] as well, I'm not sure. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 15:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, the first one is obviously added by the scanlator. It reads "scanlated by /a/non for /a/non, raws from [something I couldn't read due to quality]". --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The mysterious characters on the second one don't look like any recognized runes to me. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In case you're talking about "入口は??", that's japanese. I can't make it quite out, but it should say something like "Entrance this way". --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Oh my. I know enough Japanese to know what 入口 is, but it's such an obfuscated font I'd never tell it's kanji. Thanks for pointing it out! --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The last scanlator runeword matches the raw provider name in the watermark in the next page, and it's mixing archaic and modern.<br />
::::: Thank you all very much, sorry for the inconvenience. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Juubey? ==<br />
<br />
Where'd you get this from? O.o [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:[[File:Juubey.jpg|200px]]<br />
:It seems that scans leaked on 2ch. [[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 13:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Now notice the shadow next to Juubey in the first panel. Juubey may not be an Incubator after all... -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:02, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Jubey's definitely an Incubator. The girl on the second page (I forget her name) calls him/her/it "the fairy that made us into puella magi". It seems that Kyubey is present on the first page, though...--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Exactly. Kyubey is a hive mind. Why would he need to talk to himself like that? I think the fact that it's a "fairy" is going to be a major point. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Even if there's a hive mind, that doesn't mean they can simply telepathically talk or instantly know what another Incubator is up to. Like the Human Interfaces in Haruhi.--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Volume 1 ==<br />
Dumb question: I would imagine that since it's being released the same time as ''Oriko'' it might get lost in the shuffle, but is there anyone who's planning to look through it and see if there are any differences/additions to the original serialized chapters? -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If someone will upload the scans (raws are fine) of the tankobon somewhere (preferably as some DDL, but torrent is OK, too), then I can do that. But seeing how Kazumi is rather unpopular, I'm not so sure of the scan availability. I don't plan on buying Kazumi myself. Not in the slightest. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 20:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Yeah, that's what concerns me. I'd do it myself, if I could get the scans, but...--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 21:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It is? Uh... it's got half a million views in MangaFox, but then again, I guess that doesn't translate in the "Madoka is sold out EVERYWHERE" thing we had with the original manga. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: It's more that I'm worried Kazumi will be ignored when Oriko comes out. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 22:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::: Well obviously. Slapping the main characters on it = automatic profit. And Kazumi was just getting intresting :/ (well, to most people. I've liked it since the start. Though it might just be because I love Kazumi and real tech mixed with magic (the GPS, Yuuri's SMGs are ''almost'' [[wikipedia:Walther MPL|Walther MPL]]'s, etc.)) --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Expansion ==<br />
<br />
This is a question that also applies to Oriko.<br>Right now, we have a single page to cover everything in each manga release. Granted, they're nearly not the same scale as Madoka, and one of them is just a medium conversion with few changes. But still, there's more to it than just this.<br />
The most obvious example being a page for Kazumi herself, Umika and Kaoru, and another for the Pleiades Saints. And maybe then think about other stuff.<br>I volunteer to work on it, but I won't be able to until the weekend, university and fencing are keeping me locked up.<br>But that's not really my main question. That would be: should it be done? Okay, this is "Puella Magi wiki", not "Madoka wiki". But given the obviously huge focus on Madoka, and the apparent lack of interest in the spin-offs (so far), is it justifiable? <br>I certainly think so, but I want to hear from you. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 00:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I myself am not interested in the spinoffs, but definitely think that ''Kazumi'' at least should get its own set of character pages and the like. My only problem is with ''Oriko'': the current translation of the second volume's synopsis calls it the "concluding" volume, meaning that the series most likely isn't going to have enough content to justify taking up more than one page -- especially considering that any new insight into the anime characters can just be entered onto ''their'' preexisting pages. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 03:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I support Kazumi pages. Oriko at the very least should get her own page. It's approximately 8 chapters, which is relatively significant. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 05:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think it's best to separate manga characterizations from the anime ones. Oriko is described as a spin-off, so events and characterizations may not be considered canon to the anime. We know even the direct adaptation manga has significant differences from the anime. For example, the manga shows Sayaka killing the men on the train whereas Shinbo in the anime chose not to go that route. Either interpretation was acceptable to Urobuchi who left the scenario open to both so neither are technically wrong but it would be confusing and a bit misleading to not clearly state what was in the anime and what was in the manga. This would also apply to the background information on Madoka's characters from Oriko. I'm all for having it included but the source should be clearly stated and preferably categorized so it avoids any confusion. As for Kazumi, as long as the pages stay under the manga section, it sounds fine, just don't want it under the characters page where people might get confused with them and the Madoka anime characters. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
SUGGESTION: Since the character pages all need to be cleaned up a little big in general (speculah about characters should be moved to a new speculah page for characters, for example, and be tagged right/wrong/uncomfirmed), redundant discussions need to be trimmed, etc etc, just add a "in the manga" section to each character page that will, as necessary, detail their involvement in the mangas. Furthermore, I believe that each major manga character (so Kazumi and Oriko, at least) should get their own page on the characters page. Just add a section for manga-only characters.<br />
:The character pages do need clean-up however I don't think Kazumi or any other manga-only characters (like in Oriko) should be included with the Madoka ones. The website is dedicated to Puella Magi (or Mahou Shoujo) Madoka Magica. That means the character pages should really only be dedicated to those characters in the anime. The manga only characters belong in the manga section as something in addition that might interest people, but isn't the main focus or draw to this site. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 07:41, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I agree with the sentiment, but why have a wiki for the anime and a wiki for the manga when we could have a single unified wiki that properly identifies what comes from the manga and what comes from the anime? This just seems like it'll split the fanbase between working on a manga wiki and working on an anime wiki... and guess which one will get more attention and which one will be incomplete and barely worked on if that happens? I'm not seeing the harm in adding manga material, as long as it is clearly identified and marked which is what. Not only that, but knowing that the mangas are being produced by the same company, they may reveal things that will fill in the blanks for the anime. If a decision can't be reached by single individuals, though... why not hold a poll?<br />
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::Actually, the wiki is called "puella-magi.net" (as opposed to the previous one who was madoka-centered), and the homepage states "(...) as well as any subsequent works.", so like the guy above me (who didn't sign his comment by the way), I think manga characters do have their place here. Why not just add a new row "Manga characters" in the [[Characters]]'s table? (just like Madoka's family and classmates) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:25, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Let me see if I can explain my thinking in clearer, more straight-forward fashion. The most logical way I see to fix the issues discussed is for: the manga to have its own subsection (equivalent to setting, products, media etc.) and in that section, each manga would have a separate listing under it. Then, you can break out the manga into a chapters and character page. This is a simple way to solve the issues of growth and also clearly separates what happens in the anime from what happens in the manga. You can also then provide a link from the anime characters pointing to the manga character page(s) to give additional information/discrepancies between what occurred in the anime and manga, but having separate pages makes it easy to see what characteristic was derived from which source. <br />
:::On the other hand, if you'd did it the other way people are suggesting, adding manga-only characters to the character section, it could easily become confusing to someone who is not familiar with both the anime and manga. It's also inconsistent with the format of the section under settings where location, glossary and (of course) episodes are all anime-specific. Then you may open up the can of worms where people start adding manga-only items to location, glossary, etc. If you say well why does any of this matter? It's because there are always discrepancies between "canon anime," "canon manga," and "spin-off manga," that are viewed as different level of authority by fans and it's important to them to know the distinction. Anytime those lines start getting blurred, you'll get a host of questions and arguments that could have been avoided by knowing that X came from this source and Y came from this other source, and OK the first source is canon and the second one isn't. Speaking from the painful experience of seeing this happen many times before with other franchises--well, it's always good to keep source material as clear as possible. <br />
:::One final comment: It only takes one or two dedicated fans to update the wiki on a manga volume and it seems Kazumi has those fans. I don't see why people are concerned it'll get neglected. Even if Kazumi updates are delayed because of Oriko's premiere, that would only be reflecting the fanbase interests and the wiki doing what it's suppose to: providing the info that's most interesting and timely to the fanbase. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 15:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay, I get your point better now, and it makes sense indeed. We just have to be careful to link the pages properly to give the "Manga" part of the wiki the attention it desserves, and to carefully state what should go where. The easiest way to do so would probably be to use a new namespace, "Manga:", for all those pages, right? <br>Also, another advantage I see in your way of separating things is that character pages (as well as others) won't grow any bigger that way. If we merge both the anime and manga info into one page, then it'd grow into a wall of text even bigger than it is now. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:29, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In all seriousness, have you ever seen any wiki related to some fictional work to have many pages about the same character for different media he/she appears in? The only example I am aware of is Asuka from Evangelion on the [http://wiki.evageeks.org EvaGeeks wiki]. Since her name and biography is quite different in the Rebuild movies, they chose to just mention her Rebuild version briefly in the main article ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Langley_Soryu Asuka Langley Soryu]) and make a separate article for the Rebuild character ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Shikinami_Langley Asuka Shikinami Langley]).<br />
:::::But look at [http://wiki.evageeks.org/Shinji_Ikari the page about Shinji]. There are several paragraphs about him in the original series and The End of Eva (treated jointly), and then subsections "in the manga", "in other Eva-base manga", "in Rebuild of Eva". They have no speculah section, but a trivia section titled "Notes", so it kind of evens out ;)<br />
:::::Anyway, the Madoka manga does not really differ ''that'' much from the anime. Even though I kind of outdid myself [[Manga differences|spotting almost every single difference]], most of them are fairly insignificant in terms of character development. Knowing the exact wording of Mami's wish or not? Sayaka killing the men on the train or not? Charlotte looking different in her caterpillar form? Kyubey having facial expression or not? Do they really justify making separate pages for anime and manga versions of every single character? I don't think so.<br />
:::::The only appearance of Madoka character in Kazumi is Kyubey's cameo and Madoka's silhouette as an illustration of a Puella Magi, which are totally insignificant for anything other than noting it. I don't think we'll ever see other anime characters in Kazumi, since it takes place in a different city. And Kazumi isn't in conflict with anime canon in terms of "the laws of the universe".<br />
:::::Oriko will be a different beast, because many of Madoka's main characters are also Oriko's main characters. But even if it will be in direct conflict with the anime canon, I vote for just having an "In other media" section, and then subsections "In ''Madoka'' manga", "In ''Oriko'' manga" etc. We don't have two separate Madokas (or Mamis, Homuras, Kyoukos, Kyubeys), it's the same character. And having many timelines doesn't change it (can you seriously imagine having separate page for eg. Keiichi from Higurashi for every arc?). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::So in the end it all comes down to how much difference there is between sources. If existing characters start changing a lot in one of the series, then they may need a separate page, but not if it's just minor changes/no changes at all, where a single section would be enough ... (note that there isn't much difference between both solution if the pages are linked proprely)<br>Anyway, I have to admit I don't follow any of the manga series, so I'll leave the debate to you guys. Just one last suggestion: why don't we do as usual, i.e. solving problems when they're here? We could just add stuff to the existing pages for now, and start thinking of another organization if it gets too messy in the future right? None of the pages look like they'd need a refactoring in the near future to me, and we still barely know anything about Kazumi/Oriko Magica so it's a bit hard to anticipate at this rate ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, sorry, I saw this discussion as a future direction, e.g. after Oriko and Kazumi's new volumes are out. Right now even the manga pages aren't even half as long as say, Homura's character page. So they're fine as one-pagers at the moment.<br />
::::::Hm, I think you're misunderstanding in thinking there'd be a "Manga Homura" page versus "Anime Homura" page. What I'm proposing is a "Manga Character page" for each manga so for instance, Kazumi would have a page listing all its characters. Madoka and Oriko's manga would provide for anime characters: a blurb description, a link to the anime-specific characters page, then list things unique to that manga. Then for Oriko it would list all the manga-specific characters like the three new girls, witches, etc. This to me is far clearer and easier for users than adding all the manga-only characters in Oriko and Kazumi to the already long list of characters, and then add more sections to the already lengthy anime character pages. I hear you about the wikis with the Eva examples and that makes sense when you normally have brief, general summaries that you can put together where there's consensus, and easily see where there's major differences from different sources. I personally prefer that format for character pages and I'd be for it if things were rolled up in summary format. But I see Madoka's wiki is different with very detailed levels of information for well, everything (like the summary paragraphs of all the manga vs. anime differences...that's not something you normally see on a wiki), and people seemed inclined in only adding and not trimming things back. When things are that detailed, it makes sense to separate out pages to reduce length and confusion. Madoka's manga doesn't have much but if people show as much interest in detailing things for Oriko, those character pages can really get out-of-hand. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::OK, I think I see your point now, and it seems we don't really differ much, if at all ;) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::::<s>Full-blown discussion engaged. Just as keikaku.</s><br>Don't mind me addressing initial ponderings, I was away all day. First, of course a proper separation is needed. I never in any way doubted that. The issue was "how", not "if", and you handled better than I would have. So, two main lines of thought, so far: a strong separation between anime and manga stuff, or a higher level of interaction, while asserting their differences. I must go with the last one. Character pages for ''at least'' the major manga characters (well... it's not like Madoka follows that rule), "In other media" sections for anime ones, and a "manga characters" section at the Characters page.<br>But I do absolutely agree that the differences in canon must be properly stated. Maybe some sort of header on both saying: <br><br>(NOTE: It is unclear how canonical the events of the manga editions are towards the anime. Use caution.)<br><br>Or something of the kind (shorter, of course). <br>As for things getting out of hand... that's what were here for, no? Although I do not believe things will go down that road. If they didn't with the anime (or rather: they did, but we rode through the storm), I find it hard to believe it will happen with Oriko, no matter the popularity. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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Here's a suggestion. Stop me if I'm wrong. Character pages, IMO, should be divided like this: <br />
*Brief Summary, First Appearance <br />
*Personality (Brief Overview) <br />
*History (backstory+role in the anime; this section would clearly point out that a character is NOT from the anime in the case of manga characters) <br />
*In the Manga (information may not be canon; use section to give an overview of what they do in each manga series, if applicable; for example, this would be a good place to note things like 'in the manga, <so and so forth>'s weapon is slightly different' or 'in the manga, <so and so forth> actually kills <unimportant characters on a train>')<br />
*Powers, Weapons & Abilities <br />
*Trivia <br />
*Gallery<br />
*Link to Speculah Page<br />
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As it is right now, I won't lie, character pages look like shit. They're full of weird speculah, people have a tendency to use the various fields as mini-forums for discussion (instead of the talk pages), the official info sections are basically heaps of stuff, and the pages are NOT easy to read. Compare this to any other established wiki with dedicated character pages and... yeah, this is definitely a weird way to do it. More to the point: people need to stop using the character pages as discussion forums. They need to use the talk pages for that. If I'm wrong, then I guess it's no use hanging around and offering contributions now and again; I must have some odd, incompatible way of thinking for the people on this wiki.<br />
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:Well I agree to the rest we should make a character page. However we don't had much official images of the characters from Kazumi. Like separating the character tablet of Madoka and Kazumi. -[[User:Dandan550|Dandan550]] 07:20, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::I agree that the character pages need a cleanup, and actually, [[Wishlist|it's in the wishlist]]. I also agree that the speculah section should be a little more formal, and not "I think this ... I disagree with him ...". I don't see a problem with people adding sub-points to a point of speculah, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tsundere/Anime tvtropes-like], but we should just be careful not to turn it into a talkpage (i.e. we should avoid personal opinion and prefer neutral speech for instance).<br>As for the speculah section, if they're written correctly (and maybe cleaned up, like Homura's page), I don't see a reason to move them to another page. Since you're talking about other established wiki, just look at [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo the Touhou wiki] for instance: there is also a part of speculah on the characters pages, even though it's far smaller than here (I don't think that delirium about Yukari's name is canon, but I may be mistaken).<br>So yeah in conclusion I agree with you, except that I'd leave the speculah on the page if I were you. Also, I'm nitpicking here but I'm not sure "weapons and abilities" need a section on its own. What is there to write, except "Madoka uses a bow and has the ability to throw random stuff when things go downhill"? There's also [[Weapons|a page]] detailing what the weapons are, and so on.<br><br>tl;dr I agree with your way of doing things, with some minor changes. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 08:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::'Powers, abilities, etc' could link to the magic/magic speculah/weapon pages for more indepth outlooks. But for example, such a section on Homura's page would list out her shield, how it works (hourglass/one month), the timestopping, etc. The alternative would be to start including manga characters' stuff on those pages, which... risks making them swell and swell.<br />
:Thinking about this again, I'm starting to think we may want to make character pages for ''all'' of the characters, not just the major ones. Whether or not they are "significant", they are still part of the franchise, and the wiki should keep organization even if it means making an article for a character nobody cares about. At least, even a supporting character in, say, ''Kazumi'' would be more important than, say, the Hospital Staff in ''Madoka''. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 06:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Spoiler tags ==<br />
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I'm posting this in the Kazumi Magica talkpage, but it is not limited to Kazumi, but rather to the whole wiki. Kazumi Magica page can act as an example, and also helps me bring attention, since much of the wiki work now revolves around it ;)<br />
<br />
Anyway - I feel the {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} is quite overused. I am using ir myself, following the common practice, but I somehow feel this is wrong. I even have a feeling that the inline spoiler tag is not well suited for the structure and character of this wiki. It works quite well on TVtropes, which has a more constant structure of pages, but... have you ever seen something like that on any other wiki? (what's more, our inline spoiler tag being black makes it less visually neat than TVtropes' white tag)<br />
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The idea is noble, but it leads to some weird situations. Here on Kazumi Magica page, having "Pleiades Saints" header spoilered, or even entire Chapter 4 summary doesn't look like it is what we've wanted...<br />
<br />
I was talking about other established wikis above. The [http://wiki.evageeks.org/ EvaGeeks wiki] has only a spoiler warning box, and even more - uses it just for "recent media" (eg. the Rebuild movies). [http://starwars.wikia.com/ Wookiepedia] doesn't seem to have a spoiler tag ''at all'' (likely due to a line of thought that a wiki of some fictional work is primarily for people familiar with said work - it actually makes sense to me). [http://soranowoto.wikia.com/ So Ra No Wo To wiki], which may have been some kind of inspiration for ours (SRNWT being the original ''speculah'' anime) also only has a spoiler box... and doesn't use it anywhere. Spoiler boxes are also only kind of spoiler tags found on [http://en.touhouwiki.net/ Touhou Wiki] mentioned above and. Wikipedia actually got rid of ''all'' spoiler tags they once had.<br />
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tl;dr - I propose on cleaning the wiki of most (or even all) usage of {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} and strongly discouraging its use in new content (or even deleting it altogether). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:13, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
: As the one who used Spoiler tags on this page, I'm personally following a "Avoid spoiling major events of the previous two chapters" rule for Kazumi just in case no-one has seen it yet. Once Chapter 5 comes out I'd remove the Pleiades Saint spoilers, for example. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 10:17, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Actually, it's possible to put a reference in the spoiler box. It only works with the anime episodes right now, but I'll edit it so that it accepts manga chapters too. Anyway, nothing refrains you of adding a spoiler box at the top of the section/page, which explains what is spoilered. See [[Template:Spoilers]] (subject to change in the following minutes/hours). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:Yeah, I started a discussion going in the same direction on [[Talk:Episode_12#Spoilers|the ep12 talkpage]], which is basically a black page at the moment. I agree with you in that spoilerish paragraphs should be tagged with a box, not with the inline tag. As its name states, the inline tag was at first meant for ... inline spoilers, i.e. words or parts of a sentence that could be spoilerish, and difficult to tag otherwise. Using them for a whole paragraph, or for headers, is just wrong usage. I wouldn't go as far as completely removing this tag, but we sure need clear guidelines regarding its usage.<br>On the aesthetic part, I can try making it white if you find it less visually aggressive (the [[Episode 12]] page isn't really visually pleasant at the moment, I agree). Problem with the white spoiler tag is the opposite as the black one: you miss one more easily. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Changed the spoiler tags to something TVtropes-like, i.e. white with gray bottom border. Tell me what you think about it. (I didn't find how to hide the links though, "a" and "a:visited" don't seem to work for some reason ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 11:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Links weren't hidden in the black version, either (though they were barely visible as dark blue on black). For the links, it works when you'll use <code>.inline-spoilers, .inline-spoilers a { color: white !important; } .inline-spoilers:hover { color: black !important; }</code>. However, then the tags won't get un-spoilered on hover, so you'll have to add something like <code>.inline-spoilers:hover a { color: #0645ad !important; }</code> and so on for other link classes (<code>a.stub</code>, <code>a.new</code> and also the visited and active versions, if you care), which is kind of ugly as per design robustness, but... works ;)<br />As for the aesthetics of the white version, it looks great, at least for my tastes :) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 21:02, 7 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kazumi_Magica&diff=12645Talk:Kazumi Magica2011-05-08T06:43:32Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Expansion */</p>
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<div>Is it "Niko" or "Nico"? The scanlations use the latter. -[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:23, 7 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Wait. Independent chapters? ==<br />
<br />
I'm seeing Chapters One through Three of Kazumi on Mangafox. Yet the first volume is only coming out in May 12th?<br />
I am kinda nob when it comes to manga... so, does "serialization" means that these chapters are coming out in Kirara Forward each month, before they're packed together and released as a volume? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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: Yes. Most manga series are published chapter-by-chapter each week or month in a magazine, with volumes being released whenever a set number of chapters is reached. [[Special:Contributions/64.89.144.100|64.89.144.100]] 20:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::In that case, should we add each chapter's release date? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:::I believe a release date along with a summary of the chapters would be in order, with proper spoiler tags of course.<br />
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== Runes? ==<br />
I think there is some runic text in Kazumi chapter 1. Anyone have a translation? - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 13:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Do you have a scan or something? Might as well try and translate them, I'm pretty bored anyway. Also, we should probably make a page for them then, [[Runes:Kazumi Magica]] or something. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 14:26, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c001/4.html I see them here, but suddenly I'm not sure if they were added there by the scanlators or not.] There ''might'' be some [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c003/5.html here] as well, I'm not sure. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 15:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, the first one is obviously added by the scanlator. It reads "scanlated by /a/non for /a/non, raws from [something I couldn't read due to quality]". --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The mysterious characters on the second one don't look like any recognized runes to me. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In case you're talking about "入口は??", that's japanese. I can't make it quite out, but it should say something like "Entrance this way". --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Oh my. I know enough Japanese to know what 入口 is, but it's such an obfuscated font I'd never tell it's kanji. Thanks for pointing it out! --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The last scanlator runeword matches the raw provider name in the watermark in the next page, and it's mixing archaic and modern.<br />
::::: Thank you all very much, sorry for the inconvenience. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Juubey? ==<br />
<br />
Where'd you get this from? O.o [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:[[File:Juubey.jpg|200px]]<br />
:It seems that scans leaked on 2ch. [[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 13:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Now notice the shadow next to Juubey in the first panel. Juubey may not be an Incubator after all... -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:02, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Jubey's definitely an Incubator. The girl on the second page (I forget her name) calls him/her/it "the fairy that made us into puella magi". It seems that Kyubey is present on the first page, though...--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Exactly. Kyubey is a hive mind. Why would he need to talk to himself like that? I think the fact that it's a "fairy" is going to be a major point. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Even if there's a hive mind, that doesn't mean they can simply telepathically talk or instantly know what another Incubator is up to. Like the Human Interfaces in Haruhi.--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Volume 1 ==<br />
Dumb question: I would imagine that since it's being released the same time as ''Oriko'' it might get lost in the shuffle, but is there anyone who's planning to look through it and see if there are any differences/additions to the original serialized chapters? -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If someone will upload the scans (raws are fine) of the tankobon somewhere (preferably as some DDL, but torrent is OK, too), then I can do that. But seeing how Kazumi is rather unpopular, I'm not so sure of the scan availability. I don't plan on buying Kazumi myself. Not in the slightest. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 20:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Yeah, that's what concerns me. I'd do it myself, if I could get the scans, but...--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 21:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It is? Uh... it's got half a million views in MangaFox, but then again, I guess that doesn't translate in the "Madoka is sold out EVERYWHERE" thing we had with the original manga. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: It's more that I'm worried Kazumi will be ignored when Oriko comes out. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 22:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::: Well obviously. Slapping the main characters on it = automatic profit. And Kazumi was just getting intresting :/ (well, to most people. I've liked it since the start. Though it might just be because I love Kazumi and real tech mixed with magic (the GPS, Yuuri's SMGs are ''almost'' [[wikipedia:Walther MPL|Walther MPL]]'s, etc.)) --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Expansion ==<br />
<br />
This is a question that also applies to Oriko.<br>Right now, we have a single page to cover everything in each manga release. Granted, they're nearly not the same scale as Madoka, and one of them is just a medium conversion with few changes. But still, there's more to it than just this.<br />
The most obvious example being a page for Kazumi herself, Umika and Kaoru, and another for the Pleiades Saints. And maybe then think about other stuff.<br>I volunteer to work on it, but I won't be able to until the weekend, university and fencing are keeping me locked up.<br>But that's not really my main question. That would be: should it be done? Okay, this is "Puella Magi wiki", not "Madoka wiki". But given the obviously huge focus on Madoka, and the apparent lack of interest in the spin-offs (so far), is it justifiable? <br>I certainly think so, but I want to hear from you. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 00:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I myself am not interested in the spinoffs, but definitely think that ''Kazumi'' at least should get its own set of character pages and the like. My only problem is with ''Oriko'': the current translation of the second volume's synopsis calls it the "concluding" volume, meaning that the series most likely isn't going to have enough content to justify taking up more than one page -- especially considering that any new insight into the anime characters can just be entered onto ''their'' preexisting pages. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 03:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I support Kazumi pages. Oriko at the very least should get her own page. It's approximately 8 chapters, which is relatively significant. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 05:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think it's best to separate manga characterizations from the anime ones. Oriko is described as a spin-off, so events and characterizations may not be considered canon to the anime. We know even the direct adaptation manga has significant differences from the anime. For example, the manga shows Sayaka killing the men on the train whereas Shinbo in the anime chose not to go that route. Either interpretation was acceptable to Urobuchi who left the scenario open to both so neither are technically wrong but it would be confusing and a bit misleading to not clearly state what was in the anime and what was in the manga. This would also apply to the background information on Madoka's characters from Oriko. I'm all for having it included but the source should be clearly stated and preferably categorized so it avoids any confusion. As for Kazumi, as long as the pages stay under the manga section, it sounds fine, just don't want it under the characters page where people might get confused with them and the Madoka anime characters. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 05:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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SUGGESTION: Since the character pages all need to be cleaned up a little big in general (speculah about characters should be moved to a new speculah page for characters, for example, and be tagged right/wrong/uncomfirmed), redundant discussions need to be trimmed, etc etc, just add a "in the manga" section to each character page that will, as necessary, detail their involvement in the mangas. Furthermore, I believe that each major manga character (so Kazumi and Oriko, at least) should get their own page on the characters page. Just add a section for manga-only characters.<br />
:The character pages do need clean-up however I don't think Kazumi or any other manga-only characters (like in Oriko) should be included with the Madoka ones. The website is dedicated to Puella Magi (or Mahou Shoujo) Madoka Magica. That means the character pages should really only be dedicated to those characters in the anime. The manga only characters belong in the manga section as something in addition that might interest people, but isn't the main focus or draw to this site. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 07:41, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I agree with the sentiment, but why have a wiki for the anime and a wiki for the manga when we could have a single unified wiki that properly identifies what comes from the manga and what comes from the anime? This just seems like it'll split the fanbase between working on a manga wiki and working on an anime wiki... and guess which one will get more attention and which one will be incomplete and barely worked on if that happens? I'm not seeing the harm in adding manga material, as long as it is clearly identified and marked which is what. Not only that, but knowing that the mangas are being produced by the same company, they may reveal things that will fill in the blanks for the anime. If a decision can't be reached by single individuals, though... why not hold a poll?<br />
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::Actually, the wiki is called "puella-magi.net" (as opposed to the previous one who was madoka-centered), and the homepage states "(...) as well as any subsequent works.", so like the guy above me (who didn't sign his comment by the way), I think manga characters do have their place here. Why not just add a new row "Manga characters" in the [[Characters]]'s table? (just like Madoka's family and classmates) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:25, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Let me see if I can explain my thinking in clearer, more straight-forward fashion. The most logical way I see to fix the issues discussed is for: the manga to have its own subsection (equivalent to setting, products, media etc.) and in that section, each manga would have a separate listing under it. Then, you can break out the manga into a chapters and character page. This is a simple way to solve the issues of growth and also clearly separates what happens in the anime from what happens in the manga. You can also then provide a link from the anime characters pointing to the manga character page(s) to give additional information/discrepancies between what occurred in the anime and manga, but having separate pages makes it easy to see what characteristic was derived from which source. <br />
:::On the other hand, if you'd did it the other way people are suggesting, adding manga-only characters to the character section, it could easily become confusing to someone who is not familiar with both the anime and manga. It's also inconsistent with the format of the section under settings where location, glossary and (of course) episodes are all anime-specific. Then you may open up the can of worms where people start adding manga-only items to location, glossary, etc. If you say well why does any of this matter? It's because there are always discrepancies between "canon anime," "canon manga," and "spin-off manga," that are viewed as different level of authority by fans and it's important to them to know the distinction. Anytime those lines start getting blurred, you'll get a host of questions and arguments that could have been avoided by knowing that X came from this source and Y came from this other source, and OK the first source is canon and the second one isn't. Speaking from the painful experience of seeing this happen many times before with other franchises--well, it's always good to keep source material as clear as possible. <br />
:::One final comment: It only takes one or two dedicated fans to update the wiki on a manga volume and it seems Kazumi has those fans. I don't see why people are concerned it'll get neglected. Even if Kazumi updates are delayed because of Oriko's premiere, that would only be reflecting the fanbase interests and the wiki doing what it's suppose to: providing the info that's most interesting and timely to the fanbase. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 15:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay, I get your point better now, and it makes sense indeed. We just have to be careful to link the pages properly to give the "Manga" part of the wiki the attention it desserves, and to carefully state what should go where. The easiest way to do so would probably be to use a new namespace, "Manga:", for all those pages, right? <br>Also, another advantage I see in your way of separating things is that character pages (as well as others) won't grow any bigger that way. If we merge both the anime and manga info into one page, then it'd grow into a wall of text even bigger than it is now. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:29, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In all seriousness, have you ever seen any wiki related to some fictional work to have many pages about the same character for different media he/she appears in? The only example I am aware of is Asuka from Evangelion on the [http://wiki.evageeks.org EvaGeeks wiki]. Since her name and biography is quite different in the Rebuild movies, they chose to just mention her Rebuild version briefly in the main article ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Langley_Soryu Asuka Langley Soryu]) and make a separate article for the Rebuild character ([http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Shikinami_Langley Asuka Shikinami Langley]).<br />
:::::But look at [http://wiki.evageeks.org/Shinji_Ikari the page about Shinji]. There are several paragraphs about him in the original series and The End of Eva (treated jointly), and then subsections "in the manga", "in other Eva-base manga", "in Rebuild of Eva". They have no speculah section, but a trivia section titled "Notes", so it kind of evens out ;)<br />
:::::Anyway, the Madoka manga does not really differ ''that'' much from the anime. Even though I kind of outdid myself [[Manga differences|spotting almost every single difference]], most of them are fairly insignificant in terms of character development. Knowing the exact wording of Mami's wish or not? Sayaka killing the men on the train or not? Charlotte looking different in her caterpillar form? Kyubey having facial expression or not? Do they really justify making separate pages for anime and manga versions of every single character? I don't think so.<br />
:::::The only appearance of Madoka character in Kazumi is Kyubey's cameo and Madoka's silhouette as an illustration of a Puella Magi, which are totally insignificant for anything other than noting it. I don't think we'll ever see other anime characters in Kazumi, since it takes place in a different city. And Kazumi isn't in conflict with anime canon in terms of "the laws of the universe".<br />
:::::Oriko will be a different beast, because many of Madoka's main characters are also Oriko's main characters. But even if it will be in direct conflict with the anime canon, I vote for just having an "In other media" section, and then subsections "In ''Madoka'' manga", "In ''Oriko'' manga" etc. We don't have two separate Madokas (or Mamis, Homuras, Kyoukos, Kyubeys), it's the same character. And having many timelines doesn't change it (can you seriously imagine having separate page for eg. Keiichi from Higurashi for every arc?). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::So in the end it all comes down to how much difference there is between sources. If existing characters start changing a lot in one of the series, then they may need a separate page, but not if it's just minor changes/no changes at all, where a single section would be enough ... (note that there isn't much difference between both solution if the pages are linked proprely)<br>Anyway, I have to admit I don't follow any of the manga series, so I'll leave the debate to you guys. Just one last suggestion: why don't we do as usual, i.e. solving problems when they're here? We could just add stuff to the existing pages for now, and start thinking of another organization if it gets too messy in the future right? None of the pages look like they'd need a refactoring in the near future to me, and we still barely know anything about Kazumi/Oriko Magica so it's a bit hard to anticipate at this rate ... --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 16:36, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, sorry, I saw this discussion as a future direction, e.g. after Oriko and Kazumi's new volumes are out. Right now even the manga pages aren't even half as long as say, Homura's character page. So they're fine as one-pagers at the moment.<br />
::::::Hm, I think you're misunderstanding in thinking there'd be a "Manga Homura" page versus "Anime Homura" page. What I'm proposing is a "Manga Character page" for each manga so for instance, Kazumi would have a page listing all its characters. Madoka and Oriko's manga would provide for anime characters: a blurb description, a link to the anime-specific characters page, then list things unique to that manga. Then for Oriko it would list all the manga-specific characters like the three new girls, witches, etc. This to me is far clearer and easier for users than adding all the manga-only characters in Oriko and Kazumi to the already long list of characters, and then add more sections to the already lengthy anime character pages. I hear you about the wikis with the Eva examples and that makes sense when you normally have brief, general summaries that you can put together where there's consensus, and easily see where there's major differences from different sources. I personally prefer that format for character pages and I'd be for it if things were rolled up in summary format. But I see Madoka's wiki is different with very detailed levels of information for well, everything (like the summary paragraphs of all the manga vs. anime differences...that's not something you normally see on a wiki), and people seemed inclined in only adding and not trimming things back. When things are that detailed, it makes sense to separate out pages to reduce length and confusion. Madoka's manga doesn't have much but if people show as much interest in detailing things for Oriko, those character pages can really get out-of-hand. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::OK, I think I see your point now, and it seems we don't really differ much, if at all ;) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::::<s>Full-blown discussion engaged. Just as keikaku.</s><br>Don't mind me addressing initial ponderings, I was away all day. First, of course a proper separation is needed. I never in any way doubted that. The issue was "how", not "if", and you handled better than I would have. So, two main lines of thought, so far: a strong separation between anime and manga stuff, or a higher level of interaction, while asserting their differences. I must go with the last one. Character pages for ''at least'' the major manga characters (well... it's not like Madoka follows that rule), "In other media" sections for anime ones, and a "manga characters" section at the Characters page.<br>But I do absolutely agree that the differences in canon must be properly stated. Maybe some sort of header on both saying: <br><br>(NOTE: It is unclear how canonical the events of the manga editions are towards the anime. Use caution.)<br><br>Or something of the kind (shorter, of course). <br>As for things getting out of hand... that's what were here for, no? Although I do not believe things will go down that road. If they didn't with the anime (or rather: they did, but we rode through the storm), I find it hard to believe it will happen with Oriko, no matter the popularity. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 23:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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Here's a suggestion. Stop me if I'm wrong. Character pages, IMO, should be divided like this: <br />
*Brief Summary, First Appearance <br />
*Personality (Brief Overview) <br />
*History (backstory+role in the anime; this section would clearly point out that a character is NOT from the anime in the case of manga characters) <br />
*In the Manga (information may not be canon; use section to give an overview of what they do in each manga series, if applicable; for example, this would be a good place to note things like 'in the manga, <so and so forth>'s weapon is slightly different' or 'in the manga, <so and so forth> actually kills <unimportant characters on a train>')<br />
*Powers, Weapons & Abilities <br />
*Trivia <br />
*Gallery<br />
*Link to Speculah Page<br />
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As it is right now, I won't lie, character pages look like shit. They're full of weird speculah, people have a tendency to use the various fields as mini-forums for discussion (instead of the talk pages), the official info sections are basically heaps of stuff, and the pages are NOT easy to read. Compare this to any other established wiki with dedicated character pages and... yeah, this is definitely a weird way to do it. More to the point: people need to stop using the character pages as discussion forums. They need to use the talk pages for that. If I'm wrong, then I guess it's no use hanging around and offering contributions now and again; I must have some odd, incompatible way of thinking for the people on this wiki.<br />
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:Well I agree to the rest we should make a character page. However we don't had much official images of the characters from Kazumi. Like separating the character tablet of Madoka and Kazumi. -[[User:Dandan550|Dandan550]] 07:20, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::I agree that the character pages need a cleanup, and actually, [[Wishlist|it's in the wishlist]]. I also agree that the speculah section should be a little more formal, and not "I think this ... I disagree with him ...". I don't see a problem with people adding sub-points to a point of speculah, [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tsundere/Anime tvtropes-like], but we should just be careful not to turn it into a talkpage (i.e. we should avoid personal opinion and prefer neutral speech for instance).<br>As for the speculah section, if they're written correctly (and maybe cleaned up, like Homura's page), I don't see a reason to move them to another page. Since you're talking about other established wiki, just look at [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo the Touhou wiki] for instance: there is also a part of speculah on the characters pages, even though it's far smaller than here (I don't think that delirium about Yukari's name is canon, but I may be mistaken).<br>So yeah in conclusion I agree with you, except that I'd leave the speculah on the page if I were you. Also, I'm nitpicking here but I'm not sure "weapons and abilities" need a section on its own. What is there to write, except "Madoka uses a bow and has the ability to throw random stuff when things go downhill"? There's also [[Weapons|a page]] detailing what the weapons are, and so on.<br><br>tl;dr I agree with your way of doing things, with some minor changes. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 08:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::'Powers, abilities, etc' could link to the magic/magic speculah/weapon pages for more indepth outlooks. But for example, such a section on Homura's page would list out her shield, how it works (hourglass/one month), the timestopping, etc. The alternative would be to start including manga characters' stuff on those pages, which... risks making them swell and swell.<br />
:Thinking about this again, I'm starting to think we may want to make character pages for ''all'' of the characters, not just the major ones. Whether or not they are "significant", they are still part of the franchise, and the wiki should keep organization even if it means making an article for a character nobody cares about. At least, even a supporting character in, say, ''Oriko'' would be more important than, say, the Hospital Staff in ''Madoka''. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 06:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Spoiler tags ==<br />
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I'm posting this in the Kazumi Magica talkpage, but it is not limited to Kazumi, but rather to the whole wiki. Kazumi Magica page can act as an example, and also helps me bring attention, since much of the wiki work now revolves around it ;)<br />
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Anyway - I feel the {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} is quite overused. I am using ir myself, following the common practice, but I somehow feel this is wrong. I even have a feeling that the inline spoiler tag is not well suited for the structure and character of this wiki. It works quite well on TVtropes, which has a more constant structure of pages, but... have you ever seen something like that on any other wiki? (what's more, our inline spoiler tag being black makes it less visually neat than TVtropes' white tag)<br />
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The idea is noble, but it leads to some weird situations. Here on Kazumi Magica page, having "Pleiades Saints" header spoilered, or even entire Chapter 4 summary doesn't look like it is what we've wanted...<br />
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I was talking about other established wikis above. The [http://wiki.evageeks.org/ EvaGeeks wiki] has only a spoiler warning box, and even more - uses it just for "recent media" (eg. the Rebuild movies). [http://starwars.wikia.com/ Wookiepedia] doesn't seem to have a spoiler tag ''at all'' (likely due to a line of thought that a wiki of some fictional work is primarily for people familiar with said work - it actually makes sense to me). [http://soranowoto.wikia.com/ So Ra No Wo To wiki], which may have been some kind of inspiration for ours (SRNWT being the original ''speculah'' anime) also only has a spoiler box... and doesn't use it anywhere. Spoiler boxes are also only kind of spoiler tags found on [http://en.touhouwiki.net/ Touhou Wiki] mentioned above and. Wikipedia actually got rid of ''all'' spoiler tags they once had.<br />
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tl;dr - I propose on cleaning the wiki of most (or even all) usage of {{spoiler|inline spoiler tag}} and strongly discouraging its use in new content (or even deleting it altogether). --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:13, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
: As the one who used Spoiler tags on this page, I'm personally following a "Avoid spoiling major events of the previous two chapters" rule for Kazumi just in case no-one has seen it yet. Once Chapter 5 comes out I'd remove the Pleiades Saint spoilers, for example. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 10:17, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Actually, it's possible to put a reference in the spoiler box. It only works with the anime episodes right now, but I'll edit it so that it accepts manga chapters too. Anyway, nothing refrains you of adding a spoiler box at the top of the section/page, which explains what is spoilered. See [[Template:Spoilers]] (subject to change in the following minutes/hours). --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:23, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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:Yeah, I started a discussion going in the same direction on [[Talk:Episode_12#Spoilers|the ep12 talkpage]], which is basically a black page at the moment. I agree with you in that spoilerish paragraphs should be tagged with a box, not with the inline tag. As its name states, the inline tag was at first meant for ... inline spoilers, i.e. words or parts of a sentence that could be spoilerish, and difficult to tag otherwise. Using them for a whole paragraph, or for headers, is just wrong usage. I wouldn't go as far as completely removing this tag, but we sure need clear guidelines regarding its usage.<br>On the aesthetic part, I can try making it white if you find it less visually aggressive (the [[Episode 12]] page isn't really visually pleasant at the moment, I agree). Problem with the white spoiler tag is the opposite as the black one: you miss one more easily. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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::Changed the spoiler tags to something TVtropes-like, i.e. white with gray bottom border. Tell me what you think about it. (I didn't find how to hide the links though, "a" and "a:visited" don't seem to work for some reason ...) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 11:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Links weren't hidden in the black version, either (though they were barely visible as dark blue on black). For the links, it works when you'll use <code>.inline-spoilers, .inline-spoilers a { color: white !important; } .inline-spoilers:hover { color: black !important; }</code>. However, then the tags won't get un-spoilered on hover, so you'll have to add something like <code>.inline-spoilers:hover a { color: #0645ad !important; }</code> and so on for other link classes (<code>a.stub</code>, <code>a.new</code> and also the visited and active versions, if you care), which is kind of ugly as per design robustness, but... works ;)<br />As for the aesthetics of the white version, it looks great, at least for my tastes :) --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 21:02, 7 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oriko_Magica&diff=12577Talk:Oriko Magica2011-05-08T00:06:00Z<p>Aster Selene: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]], where have you found the information that Oriko is a sequel? All other sources seem to indicate it as a prequel...<br />
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--[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 11:32, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:This article seems to indicate that [http://animapple.blogspot.com/2011/04/madoka-madoka-magica-hasnt-finished.html it is], I am more surprised that no one seems to be worried that it will be centered around <u>"MAHOU SHOUJO HUNTING"</u> --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:39, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Well, "silently reaching Madoka Kaname bit by bit" doesn't settle anything. It may refer to Madokami, but it may also refer to the week between Homura's release from hospital and her transferring in to Mitakihara's school. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::This has all the workings of an hilarious translation error, RE: "mahou shoujo hunting".<br />
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Question: I would like to verify what the evidence was that Oriko was a prequel. As far as I know, it was pure speculation on the part of fans because at the time of its announcement, it was what fans thought would explain Mami and Kyouko being in it despite being dead (or on the way there) in the anime. Now that we've seen episode 12, we know that doesn't have to be the case. So I'm not sure why the default mentality is "it's a prequel unless proven otherwise." Normally one thinks of a continuation/spin-off as being sequential to the original work, unless specifically stated otherwise.<br />
:There was some scan (the original link 404ed, and I'm too lazy to search for it elsewhere) with a comment by Mura Kuroe, reading 「およそ一般的な魔法少女らしからぬ佐倉杏子や衡撃的な殉職をした巴マミに、アニメとはまた違った角度からスポットを当てたり、オリジナルキャラが出てきたりと、かなり自由にやらせていただいております。現段階ではまだ何もお話できませんが(笑)、アニメを観終えた方がもっと『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』ワールドを楽しめる、観てない方は最初からアニメを観てみたくなる、そんなコミックスに出来るようがんばりますので楽しみにしていてください。」 (I actually retyped it some time ago for MAL, so that's how I have the text). What I was able to understand from it is that the manga will show Kyouko and Mami from different perspectives, will feature original characters and will be approaching the Madoka universe in a quite liberal way. It was clearly understood at the time (after ep8 - Mami had died long ago, and Kyouko was speculated to die soon, which actually happened) that it means a prequel, but yeah, now that Mami and Kyouko are back in a way, it's not that clear. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:03, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It was also subtly implied in the anime that Mami and Kyouko had some sort of shared backstory in the past, and it was thought that Oriko would cover that period. Before the synopsis was released, the description said it would cover an event that was not in the anime, which could suggest a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I can't see it ''not'' covering their shared past, but that can be done in the form of a flashback, as it's been suggested. I don't discard any possibility at the moment. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 21:33, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Better Translation? ==<br />
<br />
I have reason to think that both translations listed on this page contain important errors. The "Translation of Official Site" comes from [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/oriko/ here], but it seems to mention ''both'' Madoka and Homura (based off looking for the characters for "Homura"). But more importantly, when I put the text from [http://houbunsha.co.jp/comics/detail.php?p=%CB%E2%CB%A1%BE%AF%BD%F7%A4%AA%A4%EA%A4%B3%A1%F9%A5%DE%A5%AE%A5%AB here] into an online translator, the last two lines actually appear to be the two English lines seen [http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4832240161/ on the cover here] (click and zoom in on the upper left. Granted, it looks like it's badly translated English, but still). Could anyone re-translate these? (I have no capability of translating Japanese). -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I took a shot at translating the little text that's available, and while I don't have a complete set yet, I was able to pinpoint some problems. For example, the "Who could be the girl that stands in front of Mami and Kyouko?" could be better expressed as "Who in the world is this young girl standing before Mami and Kyouko...?" (''Mami to Kyouko no mae ni tatazumu kono otome wa ittai...?'') The "magical girl hunting" bit is also vague in English, whereas in Japanese I'm pretty sure that it clearly refers to "the hunting activities of magical girls," rather than "the hunting ''of'' magical girls." It's difficult for me since I'm not well-versed in the language, but I'll try to help out! [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:14, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Er, going back to the "hunting" part, since that's apparently what a lot of people are concerned about: it's "mahou shoujo kari." When discussing, say, a fox hunt in Japanese, you write "kitsune kari." I guess the white-robed "magical beasts" are going on a hunt? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 04:26, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi, I'm an owner of the animapple blog. I also think calling this manga sequel is a bit to far-fatched from the information currently given. Before this synopsis being released, the only information we had was; 'Oriko Magica will be looking at other character's story in different perspective'. Thus, there are two possibilities; 1. The idea of 'prequel' was all trolling and this is indeed sequel, as that synopsis was posted 'AFTER' the airing of last episode, 2. It is prequel from untold loop by homura. <br />
<br />
However, I still consider my translation to be accurate. 2ch's response justified that it is indeed 'magical girls being hunted', not 'magical girls hunting'. <br />
<br />
I give you another fact that improves possibility of this being sequel. [http://i.imgur.com/u1ikn.jpg This concept design] by animator of MadoMagi instructs to make Homura look like 'villain' and mahou beast thing to be look like a 'good guy'. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 06:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Vol 2 cover ==<br />
<br />
Oriko vol 2 cover is flying around, though I can't find a bigger version.<br><br />
[[File:Oriko 2 cover small.jpg]]<br><br />
I think this is definitive proof it is not a prequel, given that Homura has no glasses. Who the hell are those two in the back, though? Guess we'll have to wait to find out... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 15:49, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:But if this is not a prequel, then what the hell is Madoka doing on the cover? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:20, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It's either troll, metaphor, or real. You cannot judge anything from it. [[User:Ring0tamegane|Ring0tamegane]] 16:24, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Symbolism, I guess? She is being hugged by Homura, after all... <br>Anyway, that's the reason I said it wasn't a prequel, and not that it was a sequel. It might also be during the events of the anime, or in one of Homura's timelines, but those two girls in the back... --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::It's most likely a fake cover, since a) it doesn't show up on Amazon, b) it doesn't make sense that the second cover would be released while the first volume's publication is still over a week away, and c) the art style is completely different, from the proportions to the coloring. Mura Kuroe couldn't have improved ''that'' much, unless the whole ''Oriko'' series is actually going to be drawn by different artists. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 16:30, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::That picture reminds me of a troll description on 2ch [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10]<br />
:::::"Kyouko Sakura who searches for a (fated?) white Puella Magi; Mami Tomoe, who confronts the culpit of the "Puella Magi Hunting", a black Puella Magi; and Homura Akemi, who does nothing but protect Madoka Kaname's peace. [...] Which would be, one time axis that already passed." --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::<s>Seems I was fooled, then. Bleh</s> Or not. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:50, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::: [http://www.madoka-magica.com/books/02.html It's from the official website.] I thought everyone knew about this already.--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:12, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Sorry for getting confused. (Seriously, though, the cover looks like somebody on 2ch grabbed some fanart from Pixiv, slapped some red circles and the logo on it, then released the thing to the internet.) The artist is still listed as "Mura Kuroe," so is he going to be using different art styles for the series? Did someone else produce the cover illustration? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 20:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I think the problem is that we only have a very small image to go on. If we had a larger image we could probably make something out. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:57, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
What I called a troll description earlier is now on Amazon, apparently for Oriko's [http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4832240366/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=466449256&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=4832240161&pf_rd_m=AN1VRQENFRJN5&pf_rd_r=1BEP78DP2S2ZFHBX190C second volume.] So is it real after all?<br />
::Well I checked the 2ch source [http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/comic/1303950844/10] and it points to [http://www.dokidokivisual.com/comics/] as its source which is a reputable seller. I checked and it has the same synopsis as Amazon. So I'd consider it legit. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:大ヒットオリジナルTVアニメ「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」の全編描き下ろしスピンオフコミック、完結巻!<br />
:因縁の白い魔法少女を探す佐倉杏子、魔法少女狩りの犯人、黒い魔法少女と対峙する巴マミ、ただひたすらに、鹿目まどかとの平穏を守ろうとする暁美ほむら。<br />
:交わることのないはずの3人の魔法少女が『織莉子』の手によって螺旋状に運命を束ねられていく。<br />
:それは、彼女たちの存在を試す物語――。<br />
:それは、過ぎ去ったひとつの時間軸――。 <br />
:: "One time axis" might mean that it takes place in one of the alternate timelines. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 23:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Someone on /a/ provided this basic summary translation. Someone else has verified this translation as accurate enough.<br />
<br />
::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica".<br />
::*Kyouko searching for some white magical girl<br />
::*Mami confronting a black magical girl who's the criminal behind the "magical girl hunting"<br />
::*Homura protecting Madoka<br />
::*The path of those three magical girls weren't supposed to cross and [something about Oriko and fate]<br />
::*A story where their existence is tested<br />
::*The story of a passed time line <br />
::*This is the concluding volume of the spin-off comic made for the big-hit TV anime "Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica". --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 01:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Prequel/Sequel Debate ==<br />
<br />
Should probably move this to a new section. Anyway:<br />
<br />
*Point A: "It can't be a prequel, the cover of Vol 2 shows Homura, not Moemura."<br />
**Sadly doesn't mean much. It could still be a prequel that happens in the one week we don't see before episode 1, and the cover is just a metaphor for what Homura is doing, and not something that will actually happen in the manga. The cover could also just be that: a cover, and have little to do with the story.<br />
<br />
*Point B: "It can't be a sequel, Homura's not wearing Madoka's ribbons."<br />
**She doesn't start wearing the ribbons until after the "Sayaka vanishes" point in the timeline. This could also be the point where she starts remembering Madoka too. Therefore it doesn't really mean anything. Also once again, cover could just be a cover.<br />
<br />
*Point C: "It's centered on Kyouko and Mami, so it has to be a prequel."<br />
**Could be. Could also just be set in the new setting where they are clearly working together.<br />
<br />
Feel free to add points and counterpoints as necessary. However, I feel that right now we haven't been given anything conclusive about whether it's a prequel, sequel, or an outright alt-u. Until we see a Witch/Grief Seed or a Demon/Grief... Cube?, it would be better not to assume anything. It might mislead people and create false hopes.<br />
<br />
I'll add pro-sequel points:<br />
* 1) Sayaka is the only major character missing in both Oriko covers and descriptions. This is an odd absence in prequel where you have Madoka and Homura present (meaning it couldn't be a time prior to Sayaka's introduction, as she's friends with Madoka). However, her absence would make sense in a sequel where Sayaka's died in episode 12. <br />
* 2) The introduction of new girls and the description of the manga as having a new plot-line with the "hunting of magical girls" seems to me like quite a bit of information you have to hand-wave to explain that all happened involving the major cast characters, and never get mentioned in the anime. Whereas it would fit for a continuation or spin-off without problems, especially since episode 12 makes it clear magical girls still exist, still fight, but things are different and a sequel could explain how.<br />
* 3) Normally if a manga is a prequel, that's mentioned in the advertisement. The fact it isn't leads me to believe that the publisher expects us to believe the default view: that a manga is a sequel or in this case, a spin-off, that follows that original body of work.<br />
<br />
:I will take a third option and say it will be set after anime events, but it will fill in backstory from ''before'' the anime events through flashbacks, thus letting it function as both a sequel and a prequel. --[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 18:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Advertisement ==<br />
<br />
Not sure if this is known, but here is an advertisement for the three next books:<br />
<br />
http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/tokuho/<br />
<br />
「魔法少女おりこ☆マギカ」第1巻 原案:Magica Quartet 漫画:ムラ黒江<br />
<br />
TVアニメでは描かれない杏子の、マミの、そしてほむらとまどかのもうひとつの戦い。<br />
交わっていなかったはずの彼女たちを結びつけていたのは—「魔法少女狩り」!?<br />
コミカライズ版「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」同様に全編描き下ろしで贈るもうひとつの「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」!!<br />
<br />
Here, "magical girl hunt" is in quotes. -- [[Special:Contributions/84.134.5.236|84.134.5.236]] 00:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==First 8 pages release==<br />
Since there are witches, this is at least in part a prequel. <small>[[User:Aster Selene|Only dead fish]] [[User talk:Aster Selene|go with the flow.]]</small> 00:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Umika_Misaki&diff=12534Talk:Umika Misaki2011-05-07T20:00:57Z<p>Aster Selene: Created page with "==Name== I think this page should be "Umika Misaki" as per Madoka Kaname and Mami Tomoe. ~~~~"</p>
<hr />
<div>==Name==<br />
I think this page should be "Umika Misaki" as per [[Madoka Kaname]] and [[Mami Tomoe]]. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 20:00, 7 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kazumi_Magica&diff=12122Talk:Kazumi Magica2011-05-05T05:07:34Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Expansion */</p>
<hr />
<div>Is it "Niko" or "Nico"? The scanlations use the latter. -[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:23, 7 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wait. Independent chapters? ==<br />
<br />
I'm seeing Chapters One through Three of Kazumi on Mangafox. Yet the first volume is only coming out in May 12th?<br />
I am kinda nob when it comes to manga... so, does "serialization" means that these chapters are coming out in Kirara Forward each month, before they're packed together and released as a volume? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 20:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yes. Most manga series are published chapter-by-chapter each week or month in a magazine, with volumes being released whenever a set number of chapters is reached. [[Special:Contributions/64.89.144.100|64.89.144.100]] 20:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::In that case, should we add each chapter's release date? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I believe a release date along with a summary of the chapters would be in order, with proper spoiler tags of course.<br />
<br />
== Runes? ==<br />
I think there is some runic text in Kazumi chapter 1. Anyone have a translation? - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 13:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Do you have a scan or something? Might as well try and translate them, I'm pretty bored anyway. Also, we should probably make a page for them then, [[Runes:Kazumi Magica]] or something. --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 14:26, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c001/4.html I see them here, but suddenly I'm not sure if they were added there by the scanlators or not.] There ''might'' be some [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahoushoujo_kazumi_magica_the_innocent_malice/v01/c003/5.html here] as well, I'm not sure. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 15:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, the first one is obviously added by the scanlator. It reads "scanlated by /a/non for /a/non, raws from [something I couldn't read due to quality]". --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The mysterious characters on the second one don't look like any recognized runes to me. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 16:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::In case you're talking about "入口は??", that's japanese. I can't make it quite out, but it should say something like "Entrance this way". --[[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 16:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Oh my. I know enough Japanese to know what 入口 is, but it's such an obfuscated font I'd never tell it's kanji. Thanks for pointing it out! --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::The last scanlator runeword matches the raw provider name in the watermark in the next page, and it's mixing archaic and modern.<br />
::::: Thank you all very much, sorry for the inconvenience. - [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 17:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Juubey? ==<br />
<br />
Where'd you get this from? O.o [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 13:37, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:[[File:Juubey.jpg|200px]]<br />
:It seems that scans leaked on 2ch. [[User:TATZL|TATZL]] 13:48, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Now notice the shadow next to Juubey in the first panel. Juubey may not be an Incubator after all... -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 14:02, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Jubey's definitely an Incubator. The girl on the second page (I forget her name) calls him/her/it "the fairy that made us into puella magi". It seems that Kyubey is present on the first page, though...--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Exactly. Kyubey is a hive mind. Why would he need to talk to himself like that? I think the fact that it's a "fairy" is going to be a major point. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 16:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::Even if there's a hive mind, that doesn't mean they can simply telepathically talk or instantly know what another Incubator is up to. Like the Human Interfaces in Haruhi.--[[User:Urutapu|urutapu]] 16:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Volume 1 ==<br />
Dumb question: I would imagine that since it's being released the same time as ''Oriko'' it might get lost in the shuffle, but is there anyone who's planning to look through it and see if there are any differences/additions to the original serialized chapters? -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 20:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:If someone will upload the scans (raws are fine) of the tankobon somewhere (preferably as some DDL, but torrent is OK, too), then I can do that. But seeing how Kazumi is rather unpopular, I'm not so sure of the scan availability. I don't plan on buying Kazumi myself. Not in the slightest. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 20:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Yeah, that's what concerns me. I'd do it myself, if I could get the scans, but...--[[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 21:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::It is? Uh... it's got half a million views in MangaFox, but then again, I guess that doesn't translate in the "Madoka is sold out EVERYWHERE" thing we had with the original manga. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: It's more that I'm worried Kazumi will be ignored when Oriko comes out. -- [[User:Universalperson|Universalperson]] 22:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::: Well obviously. Slapping the main characters on it = automatic profit. And Kazumi was just getting intresting :/ (well, to most people. I've liked it since the start. Though it might just be because I love Kazumi and real tech mixed with magic (the GPS, Yuuri's SMGs are ''almost'' [[wikipedia:Walther MPL|Walther MPL]]'s, etc.)) --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Expansion ==<br />
<br />
This is a question that also applies to Oriko.<br>Right now, we have a single page to cover everything in each manga release. Granted, they're nearly not the same scale as Madoka, and one of them is just a medium conversion with few changes. But still, there's more to it than just this.<br />
The most obvious example being a page for Kazumi herself, Umika and Kaoru, and another for the Pleiades Saints. And maybe then think about other stuff.<br>I volunteer to work on it, but I won't be able to until the weekend, university and fencing are keeping me locked up.<br>But that's not really my main question. That would be: should it be done? Okay, this is "Puella Magi wiki", not "Madoka wiki". But given the obviously huge focus on Madoka, and the apparent lack of interest in the spin-offs (so far), is it justifiable? <br>I certainly think so, but I want to hear from you. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 00:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I myself am not interested in the spinoffs, but definitely think that ''Kazumi'' at least should get its own set of character pages and the like. My only problem is with ''Oriko'': the current translation of the second volume's synopsis calls it the "concluding" volume, meaning that the series most likely isn't going to have enough content to justify taking up more than one page -- especially considering that any new insight into the anime characters can just be entered onto ''their'' preexisting pages. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 03:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::I support Kazumi pages. Oriko at the very least should get her own page. It's approximately 8 chapters, which is relatively significant. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 05:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Madoka_Magica_Trivia&diff=11742Talk:Madoka Magica Trivia2011-05-03T00:30:24Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Fun With Latin */</p>
<hr />
<div>This page and [[Speculah:Finds]] are quite similar.<br />
I suggest we keep here all the "hard facts" (Like Yuuki Aoi's involvment in the animation and buildings) and put all the runescript translations and other more debatable things in the [[Speculah:Finds]] page. [[User:Mic2070|Mic2070]] 10:42, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:See the proposal here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Talk:Main_Page I think I'll do the changes once I'm back from dinner --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 11:40, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
Okay, remodelling finished (although I'm not sure about the layout). Here is how it should work:<br />
*When you find something new, add a new subsection. Add a thumbnail if needed (don't forget to add the "clear" tag so that sections don't overlap)<br />
*If you want to add speculah, observations, or, well, anything that is not hard objective fact, then please add a subsubsection "Speculations" or something of the like, and put that there.<br />
That's all --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:03, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
*i would move all the captured writings to one place. [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Speculah:Finds here] is where i put them. now its [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Deciphering_the_runes#Translated_screencaps here]. would look more tidier . <br />
*likewise put the transcription of what Anthonies said in ep1 to its [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Witch_minions#Anthony parent section]<br />
--[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 13:46, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
moved the trivia about the burj khalifa and weltstadhaus to http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Mitakihara_Town and about the anthony to http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Gertrud#Anthony--[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 15:09, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:I'm not sure about that, I think they belong here, at least the burj khalifa and the weldstadthaus ... After all, that's 100% trivia. Maybe reference this page from the Mitakihara page? --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:11, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
undid the deletes about locations,i also moved the the trivia about sketches to [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Translated_Official_Documents#Trivia official documents] --[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 15:31, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
Production errors? Really? There are way more than only that, please delete or make a whole new page.<br />
:i think it fits fine --[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 13:12, 21 January 2011 (CST)<br />
::Well, how about including the other one from episode 1? Or QUALITY? I don't like it when things are incomplete, so either you guys add every error, or no one. --[[User:Madokaanon|Madokaanon]] 13:33, 21 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:::every ones attention is turned to episode pages now so i guess the trivia there is fitting too. maybe to avoid deletion sysop could remove this link from sidebar and so that this page doesnt becomes unaccessible the trivias from the episode page could be referenced to here. the trivias could be explained in more detail here. i dont like when some ones work is being abused --[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 14:09, 21 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Episode sections ==<br />
<br />
Is there a hard and fast rule that decides when stuff goes on this page vs on the individual episode pages? I would lean towards moving all the episode-specific stuff to those pages and linking to them from here, and keeping the general / multi-episode stuff here. [[User:Oatmeal|Oatmeal]] 01:24, 26 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Opening theme ==<br />
<br />
Its changes from episodes 2 to 3 might actually be a reflection of the changes in Madoka's worldview, when she witnessed Mami's death, which would explain the discoloration of the forest, the transformation scene being moved into a bubble, and the fact that Madoka runs even faster, as though she's in distress. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 06:50, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Why it changed in ep3 and not ep4, I mean, before Mami's death, and not after, then? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 10:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Just checked episode 4, and the changes are there as well. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 06:07, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::OK, but I meant that the first time the changes appeared was ep3's opening, right? And ep3's opening was before Mami's death. Why would Madoka's worldview change so early? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 12:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::It could just be that the changed OP denotes that the change will happen during the episode, and not that it happened already. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 05:21, 13 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Can someone with the BDs check to see if the OP for the first two eps match the TV OP for them? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 03:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::I haven't seen the actual video, but judging from some comparison screenshot already posted by Japanese fans, the ep6 version is used. See also [[User:KFYatek/Episode revisions]], I'm gathering all the changes there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Fun With Latin==<br />
Because I don't know where to put this. Note, this is not supposed to be a criticism of "Puella Magi" or anything like that. I'm just posting this for anyone interested.<br />
<br />
This is just for fun. Some random Latin phrases with vague relevance that mean fun things.<br />
<br />
* "Puella Magica" - magical girl<br />
* "Puella Magiae" - girl of magic (Note: Yes, "Magia" means magic. Magic, the noun.)<br />
* "Puella Veneficii" - girl of [evil] magic<br />
* "Puella Venefici" (one i) - girl of the [evil] mage<br />
* "Puella Maleficae" - girl of the [evil] witch ("maleficae" literally means "doing bad"); this is the one that can be interpreted as "girl form of the witch", since "Magi" is male and thus trying to interpret it as "girl form of the witch" implies that the girls change gender when turning into witches. Ew.<br />
* "Puella Veneficae" - girl of the [evil] witch; different from "maleficae" in that it has an implication of poison<br />
* "Puella Lamiae" - girl of the witch; different from "veneficae" in that it implies the witch is non-humanlike<br />
<br />
Like I said. Just for fun. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 00:30, 3 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Madoka_Magica_Trivia&diff=11741Talk:Madoka Magica Trivia2011-05-03T00:30:10Z<p>Aster Selene: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page and [[Speculah:Finds]] are quite similar.<br />
I suggest we keep here all the "hard facts" (Like Yuuki Aoi's involvment in the animation and buildings) and put all the runescript translations and other more debatable things in the [[Speculah:Finds]] page. [[User:Mic2070|Mic2070]] 10:42, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:See the proposal here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Talk:Main_Page I think I'll do the changes once I'm back from dinner --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 11:40, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
Okay, remodelling finished (although I'm not sure about the layout). Here is how it should work:<br />
*When you find something new, add a new subsection. Add a thumbnail if needed (don't forget to add the "clear" tag so that sections don't overlap)<br />
*If you want to add speculah, observations, or, well, anything that is not hard objective fact, then please add a subsubsection "Speculations" or something of the like, and put that there.<br />
That's all --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 13:03, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
*i would move all the captured writings to one place. [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Speculah:Finds here] is where i put them. now its [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Deciphering_the_runes#Translated_screencaps here]. would look more tidier . <br />
*likewise put the transcription of what Anthonies said in ep1 to its [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Witch_minions#Anthony parent section]<br />
--[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 13:46, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
moved the trivia about the burj khalifa and weltstadhaus to http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Mitakihara_Town and about the anthony to http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Gertrud#Anthony--[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 15:09, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:I'm not sure about that, I think they belong here, at least the burj khalifa and the weldstadthaus ... After all, that's 100% trivia. Maybe reference this page from the Mitakihara page? --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 15:11, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
undid the deletes about locations,i also moved the the trivia about sketches to [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Translated_Official_Documents#Trivia official documents] --[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 15:31, 19 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
Production errors? Really? There are way more than only that, please delete or make a whole new page.<br />
:i think it fits fine --[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 13:12, 21 January 2011 (CST)<br />
::Well, how about including the other one from episode 1? Or QUALITY? I don't like it when things are incomplete, so either you guys add every error, or no one. --[[User:Madokaanon|Madokaanon]] 13:33, 21 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:::every ones attention is turned to episode pages now so i guess the trivia there is fitting too. maybe to avoid deletion sysop could remove this link from sidebar and so that this page doesnt becomes unaccessible the trivias from the episode page could be referenced to here. the trivias could be explained in more detail here. i dont like when some ones work is being abused --[[User:Saveol2009|Saveol2009]] 14:09, 21 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Episode sections ==<br />
<br />
Is there a hard and fast rule that decides when stuff goes on this page vs on the individual episode pages? I would lean towards moving all the episode-specific stuff to those pages and linking to them from here, and keeping the general / multi-episode stuff here. [[User:Oatmeal|Oatmeal]] 01:24, 26 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Opening theme ==<br />
<br />
Its changes from episodes 2 to 3 might actually be a reflection of the changes in Madoka's worldview, when she witnessed Mami's death, which would explain the discoloration of the forest, the transformation scene being moved into a bubble, and the fact that Madoka runs even faster, as though she's in distress. Thoughts? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 06:50, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Why it changed in ep3 and not ep4, I mean, before Mami's death, and not after, then? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 10:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Just checked episode 4, and the changes are there as well. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 06:07, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::OK, but I meant that the first time the changes appeared was ep3's opening, right? And ep3's opening was before Mami's death. Why would Madoka's worldview change so early? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 12:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::It could just be that the changed OP denotes that the change will happen during the episode, and not that it happened already. [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 05:21, 13 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Can someone with the BDs check to see if the OP for the first two eps match the TV OP for them? [[User:MAHO☆KYOKO|MAHO☆KYOKO]] 03:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::I haven't seen the actual video, but judging from some comparison screenshot already posted by Japanese fans, the ep6 version is used. See also [[User:KFYatek/Episode revisions]], I'm gathering all the changes there. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==Fun With Latin==<br />
Because I don't know where to put this. Note, this is not supposed to be a criticism of "Puella Magi" or anything like that. I'm just posting this for anyone interested.<br />
<br />
This is just for fun. Some random Latin phrases with vague relevance that mean fun things.<br />
<br />
* "Puella Magica" - magical girl<br />
* "Puella Magiae" - girl of magic (Note: Yes, "Magia" means magic. Magic, the noun.)<br />
* "Puella Veneficii" - girl of [evil] magic<br />
* "Puella Venefici" (one i) - girl of the [evil] mage<br />
* "Puella Maleficae" - girl of the [evil] witch ("maleficae" literally means "doing bad"); this is the one that can be interpreted as "girl form of the witch", since "Magi" is male and thus trying to interpret it as "girl form of the witch" implies that the girls change gender when turning into witches. Ew.<br />
* "Puella Veneficae" - girl of the [evil] witch; different from "maleficae" in that it has an implication of poison<br />
* "Puella Lamiae" - girl of the witch; different from "veneficae" in that it implies the witch is non-humanlike.<br />
<br />
Like I said. Just for fun. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 00:30, 3 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Weapons&diff=11675Talk:Weapons2011-05-02T04:37:41Z<p>Aster Selene: </p>
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<div>Creating in the same style as the locations page. [[User:Jbw|jbw]] 18:47, 25 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Puella_Magi_Madoka_Magica Existing work] available here for reference. [[User:Prima|Prima]] 18:10, 26 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Thanks i'll use this to get the names down quickly and i'll add new images as i re-watch it on Bluray.<br />
:::Oh how could I not see this page. I'm your man, leave it to me. [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:16, 28 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::I'll take care of all firearms for now, but should we include other kinds of weaponry? [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 22:43, 28 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::Speaking of "other kinds of weaponry:" is it just me, or did Homura actually use a nuclear reactor against Walpurgis Night in Episode 11? Should that be included on this page? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 00:39, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::A nuclear reactor? If you're talking about Homura's final attack, that was some sort of stadium or dome lined with explosives, I think. Sure the explosion looked gargantuan, but I'll say it again: ''stadium lined with explosives''. Mushroom clouds and ungodly explosions aren't nuclear exclusive, any large explosion will do it: it's just very rare to see a non-nuclear explosion that strong. The most usual example is a [[wikipedia:Thermobaric weapon|thermobaric weapon]]. [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 00:58, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::::::Considering that Homura was fighting Walpurgis in what was definitely an industrial area, we can be pretty sure that it wasn't a stadium. On watching that scene again, though, it looks almost like Walpurgis fell into something like a giant ''trap pit'' that Homura lined with rectangular bombs: there seem to be buildings along its perimeter, and the perspective suggests that the witch is below ground level rather than surrounded by high walls. How could she have set that up, though? [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 02:58, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::The Witch crashed into the ground, creating the very large hole you see. Homura stopped time and placed the explosives. Time was then unstopped and that's why the explosives only activated a few seconds AFTER the Witch crashed into the ground. They're 'proximity mines' by the way. Anything that crosses the sight/lens sets them off. They're called 'Claymore' proximity mines.<br />
::::::::Those are ''absolutely not'' [[wikipedia:M18A1_Claymore_Antipersonnel_Mine|claymores]]. The explosives used were definitely of high yield: Claymores are fragment mines, they produce a small explosion, what kills is the high-speed ball bearings inside it. Hence why it's an anti-personal mine, poor against armor, and thus completely inadequate to use against Walpurgis, which apparently can take more fire than the Kremlin. <br>I can't say for sure, but my best bet is that it's [[wikipedia:C4|C4]]. The light matches common C4 detonators, and being a plastic explosive, it's easy to shape the charges into blocks to fill any given area, and attach them to a surface, unlike solid explosives. As for the trigger, I'd be willing to bet it was remotely detonated: not point in placing down all those explosives if some poor idiot walked into the building by accident. And the explosives were definitely pre-placed: there's not enough time sand in the world to place them in the middle of battle. <br>Momoism, you're right about the industrial area. That should be some sort of large warehouse, then: the roof above surface, but the floor below. [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::Who says she manually placed them, or even placed them before the fight? Her magic can very clearly deploy large amounts of weapons over an area, so why not in a preset configuration? More importantly, those do look like Claymores, and there ARE brands of Claymore that aren't fragmentation based. That said, for her to not have had placed them in advance, would require her to have known the fighting would make Walpurgis Night crash at that exact location. Sure, it's possible she could have... but that's a far stretch compared to them just being placed on the spot.<br />
::::::::::It's true Homura's hammer space works in mysterious ways, but all of her uses of involved either retrieving objects from her shield, or having them pop up in close proximity. She was clearly far away from the blast zone, and the explosives were firmly attached to the wall, to the point that they didn't fall when half the building was trashed by Walpurgis' fall.<br>It's not that much of a far stretch. Homura has fought Walpurgis before several times, and knowing her initial location and her reaction to her attacks, she could predict her movements. Definite proof is the implosion of the towers. Setting up explosives to implode a building takes a great amount of care and time, let alone do so in way that the building collapses in a precise direction. It was a precision strike, ready to use while Walpurgis was stunned by the mortars.<br>About the Claymores: taking another look at the scene, I see how can they be mixed up by them, the length and height are similar. However, I rechecked various sources: there is no high explosive Claymore, all of them are fragmentation mines. It is only natural, it's a purely anti-personnel weapon. A HEAT version wouldn't be useful against armor: it is simply too small. Anti-tank mines tend to be much larger.<br>Either way, it also straight-edged: Claymores are curved, to spread the fragments over a 60º angle. They also have prominent edges all around, while the Claymore is round around the felt and right sides. Furthermore, Claymores do not possess that light in the middle: in fact, they possess none, Call Of Duty and other games just love to put lasers spewing out of it on the edges. No such thing exists.<br>Finally, Homura knows her weapons well. In fact, you can see her evolution from a normal girl to a weapons expert: she dropped her oversized, clumsy Desert Eagle and replaced with with a handy, precise Beretta. She has an M249 she used for heavy fire from distance, and an assault rifle she used for medium range defense while on the move. She clearly know when and how to use weapons. As I said above, even if there was a high-explosive version of a Claymore, it would never have the power of an anti-tank mine or another high-yield explosive. Given that all weaponry she used against Walpurgis is anti-armor (well, not the fuel truck...), it would be both inconsistent and a very bad decision to use anti-personnel weapons for her final attack on Walpurgis. Sorry to say this, but you are essentially calling her stupid by suggesting she used Claymores.<br>Phew, that took a while. [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:08, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
I just wanted to say that I think Mami's weapon looks like a muzzle loader, not a breechloader. That would make it a rifled musket, not a rifle. [[Special:Contributions/72.77.96.152|72.77.96.152]] 03:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)Carrie<br />
:Thank you. Classic firearms are not my speciality :/ [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 16:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
On Homura's grenades: the one she uses to chase Kyouko away isn't very powerful, no. The one she uses on Roberta however obliterates the Witch and all of its familiars in (as far as we know) a single explosion. I'm not sure why exactly the episode 10 remark about it says it's not very powerful.<br />
:Copy paste after hours making that, sorry. But actually, while the one used on Kyouko isn't powerful enough to be an M26, the one used on Roberta is ''too powerful'' to be an M26. I think it's an HE version, though no such thing exists. Then again, there isn't a stun version either...<br>And in the end, we never get to see a proper frag M26. Urobuchi strikes again. --[[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 01:58, 1 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
::To be completely fair here, holographic technology like Homura uses in her apartment doesn't exist either and that's not stopping her from having it. Mitakihara seems like an advanced town overall, it could just be that their local military has more potent stuff they're hiding. Holographic tech, ridiculous stun grenades, explosives that could take down a Witch in one hit, etc. The alternative is presuming that Witch barriers don't obey usual laws of reality in regards to weaponry, and this is why Homura can make pipe bombs that can take out Witches in one hit.<br />
<br />
== Criteria for this page ==<br />
<br />
Since the discussion above pretty much derailed...<br />
<br />
What should be considered a weapon and what shouldn't? After I started to consider (and post) weapons other than firearms, I realized there are some that are on the borderline. Namely, Mami's ribbons, and the strings that grow from her bullets: should they be considered weapons? I've put them there, but I am not sure if they're weapons, supporting assets that shouldn't be considered weapons, or mere magic. Need your opinion here.<br />
<br />
Also, I've been uploading full screens so far, with 500px size in the page. In the cases of weapons that aren't heavily featured in the scene (pipe bombs in Charlotte's tongue, Mami's twin cannons, etc), it would be useful to upload cropped versions, but I'm not too keen on having pictures of different size/aspect ratio... [[User:BrickBreak|BrickBreak]] 19:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think what you're doing right now is perfect. Having there non-traditional weaponry listed will help this page differentiate itself from its imfdb counterpart. In regards to screen captures, my personal opinion is that all screens should be uncropped, since it will give visual context for where the weapon is used. If emphasis is needed, we can always highlight or circle the weapon. - [[User:Prima|Prima]] 21:01, 29 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
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==Mistake, or...==<br />
Episode 11 has "rose branch bow" listed on it. I don't want to check back to see if there was a flashback or something, but I thought that scene was from Episode 10...[[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 04:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Magic&diff=11099Magic2011-04-28T23:58:48Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Special abilities */</p>
<hr />
<div>Magic in the Magica Universe are forces created from fluctuation of emotion, unbounded by the [[wikipedia:First Law of Thermodynamics|First Law of Thermodynamic]]. When QB's scientifically-advanced civilization discovered Magic, they realized Magic's capacity to create new energy can postpone maximum [[wikipedia:entropy|Entropy]] and delay the [[wikipedia:heat death of the Universe|heat death of the Universe]]. However, QB's civilization are incapable of emotions, thus they scoured the Universe for species with the most emotional potential. QB found his answer in the Earth's human females, especially those still developing secondary sex characteristics. Mahou Shoujo and Witches, thus the settings of the story, are the result of QB's quest to harvest this energy.<br />
<br />
==Magical creatures==<br />
Three types of magical creatures exist in Magica universe: [[magical girl]]s, [[witch]]es, and [[familiar]]s. However, because both familiars and magic girls can mature into witches, all three may be considered stages of a single species. Souls of magic girls and witches are separated from their bodies and reside in [[soul gem]]s and [[grief seed]]s, respectively. Because of this, magic girls and witches are nigh invulnerable as long as their soul gems or grief seeds are intact and can recover in due time. Familiars do not have grief seeds, so they are presumed dead when killed. Both soul gems and grief seeds are adorned by the emblem of the holder, and familiars carry the emblem of witch whom they budded from.<br />
<br />
''Read more about emblems at [[Facts_and_Observations#Soul_Gem_and_Grief_Seed|soul gems and grief seeds]].''<br />
<br />
==Common abilities==<br />
These are magical abilities common to all magic girls. For magic girls, magic usage result in darkening of their soul gems, which must be cleansed by a vanquished witch's grief seed. With training, magical girls can become more proficient at these abilities and reduce magic usage:<br />
*Summon weaponry: Magical girls typically summon their offensive weapon from thin air or their soul gem at will. Each has their own characteristic weaponry and fighting style that they gain increasing proficiency at. Mami and Sayaka at least are able to make as many of them as they desire, and the weapons are not necessarily mundane as Mami's rifles fire blasts of magic, not bullets.<br />
*Henshin: Magical girls undergo a magical transformation that summons fancy new costume onto their body. It is assumed that the costume provides protection.<br />
*Physical enhancements: All magical girls exhibits superhuman strength, agility, reaction, and regeneration. Further training allows the girls to be able to shut off their sense of pain during battle. They are also capable of harnessing the regenerative power to heal problems like [[Episode 10| nearsightedness]]. According to Kyubey they could keep fighting even with every drop of blood in their body drained by healing it with magic. These physical enhancements also include the ability to jump incredible heights.<br />
*Witch Detection: Soul gems glow when there are witches nearby, or if there have been witches nearby recently. From Episode 1, when Mami tells Homura that she can still chase after the witch, and from Episode 6, when Sayaka tries to find the trail of the familiar Anja, witches seem to leave behind some sort of trail of energy which magical girls can detect and follow. From episode 9, when Kyouko assures Madoka that the witch she's chasing has the same energy signature, it can be surmised that each witch has a different trail, possibly similar to a fingerprint or other identifier. In essence, every witch may be unique. It is unclear whether a witch's familiar has the same energy signature as the original witch, and it is unclear whether soul gems can also detect victims of a witches' kiss. <br />
*Telepathy: Magical Girls are able to use telepathy to communicate with other people, including normal humans. However it is possible there is a limited range on this ability or that Kyubey is needed to act as a relay. Only Mami and Kyouko have displayed the ability to do it without Kyubey thus far.<br />
*Flying/Hovering: While so far only Homura has displayed the outright ability to hover in the air (during her fight with Walpurgis) it's not impossible they can all learn to do it.<br />
<br />
==Special abilities==<br />
[[Madoka]]<br />
*Magical arrows: Madoka can produce arrows of pink magic that seem to explode on impact. She can fire as many as five in one shot and they appear to be able to curve in mid-flight to change direction.<br />
*Incredible potential: Somehow Madoka is able to take out The Final Boss in one solid hit in the right conditions. This would appear to burn through her magic instantly, however, but not to destroy her Soul Gem.<br />
[[Sayaka]]<br />
*Regeneration: Sayaka can quickly regenerate any otherwise fatal body damages and continue fighting.<br />
*Screen sweep: Leaving blue streaks in her wake, Sayaka is able to quickly bounce across the entire battlefield and take out any enemies in her path.<br />
[[Homura]]<br />
*Time stop: Homura can temporarily stop time in the surrounding area with exception of herself and anything in direct contact with her (such as holding hands).<br />
*Hammer space: Besides blocking damage, her clockwork shield can store any size and amount of munition. Thus far Homura has seen storing and pulling out from it pistols, grenades, flashbangs, and an [[wikipedia:M240|M240]].<br />
*Energy manipulation: She would appear to be able to fire purple-ish blasts of magic out of her hand (or Soul Gem), as well as form energy barriers around her shield to block attacks.<br />
*Time loop: Homura can rewind time back one month; however, she must wait at least one month between uses.<br />
[[Mami]]<br />
*Healing: In [[episode 1]], Mami demonstrate the ability to heal wounds on others.<br />
*Restrain: Mami can summon ribbons or chains to restrain and incapacitate an adversary.<br />
*Ribbons: She can apparently shape her ribbons as she sees fit, making bridges or giant pistols out of them.<br />
*Other abilities: Mami placed a chain around Madoka and Sayaka in episode 1 to protect them from harm, and imbue Sayaka's bat with magic in [[episode 2]]. It is unknown if these abilities are learned or unique to Mami.<br />
[[Kyouko]]<br />
*Erecting fencing: Kyouko can erect a impenetrable, latticed barrier to keep others from harm or to isolate her adversary.<br />
*Giant spears: Said barrier is made of giant spears. She would appear to be able to ride them and they behave somewhat like snakes due to their chained nature.<br />
*Energy manipulation: Kyouko is also able to shroud herself in a powerful magical glow. Whether it has any effect or is just for show remains to be seen.<br />
*Soul Gem detonation: Suicide attack. Able to take out witches in one hit. It is unknown if other magical girls can also do this at will.<br />
*Other abilities: Kyouko was able to keep Sayaka's (soulless) body from decaying while also keeping it warm. This might be a generic use of magic all of the girls can learn to do, but it might also just be an application of healing magic on a body other than hers.<br />
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==Magic Realm==<br />
Witches and familiars reside in magical labyrinths of another dimension. These labyrinths interface with the real world at specific locations through an unknown mechanism, but can be entered by magic girls through ripping open [[barrier]]s. To attract normal people to their locations to 'eat,' witches infest unhappy people with a [[witch's kiss]], which either attract them to these locations to commit suicide (if unhindered) or kill them off with diseases. For this reason, witches tend to gather around violence-prone areas and hospitals.<br />
<br />
The labyrinths consist both of elements from their locations in reality and of allusions to the witches that create them. Deeper within the labyrinth, more references to the witch will be seen and fewer elements from reality show up. For example, in episode one, the labyrinth is set in a floor waiting for refurbishing, and it was fulfilled with 'under construction' signs and barriers of a construction site. In episode two, the labyrinth is set in an abandoned concrete building, thus the rooms in the labyrinth are made of solid concrete, making its appearance differ from episode one even though the owner is the same. As the protagonists approach the the final room, elements of a rose garden start to dominate the construction elements. In episode three, the labyrinth is set in a hospital, therefore surgery signs, needles, gallipots, and wards are presented first, but deeper in, those are replaced by various kinds of desserts. The barrier can also be influenced by the strong emotions of the people within them, as seen in episode three when Mami and Madoka make their promise.<br />
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=Further Reading=<br />
;[[SPeculah:Magical Powers|Speculative magical powers]]<br />
[[Category:Articles]]<br />
[[Category:Fanmade analysis]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Wish_theories&diff=10821Wish theories2011-04-27T03:55:57Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Madoka's Wish */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
<br />
[[Kyubey]]'s proposition includes granting a wish in exchange for the person to become a [[Glossary#Magical_Girl|mahou shoujo]]. This page lists those who have encountered Kyubey and guesses about wishes. Note that these are ''speculations'' and not the character's actual wishes.<br />
<br />
== Madoka's Wish ==<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Deus Ex Machina or "I wish Mami were alive"<br />
|status=debunked<br />
|episode=10<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Madoka wishes Mami back to life. This one is so easily corrupted, especially if the "Witches are fallen magical girls" theory proves true. You wished her alive Madoka, you never said as a magical girl!<br />
<br />
This theory has been proven wrong in Episode 10, where Madoka is a magical girl, even when Mami's still alive. However, being that Madoka's wish is never actually seen, this may be a wish in an alternate timeline somewhere in the series.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Procrastinating Until the End of the World<br />
|status=debunked<br />
|episode=10<br />
}}<br />
Madoka resists making a wish until the very end of the series, when the apocalyptic scenario from her dream comes into play, and she uses her wish to solve everything at once or cause a global reset. "I wish everything would go back to the way it was before I met Kyubey!"<br />
<br />
This, however, does not come to pass in Episode 12, the only timeline in which she could logically make this wish.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=The Human Instrumentality Project<br />
|status=debunked<br />
|episode=12<br />
}}<br />
Madoka wishes to end all suffering. Everyone gets hugged and turns into [[Morning Rescue]].<br />
<br />
This wish is never made by the end of the series, and presumably did not happen in the previous timelines as otherwise the whole suffering scenario wouldn't exist.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timeline 1 - Save that cat!<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|source=Drama CD 1<br />
}}<br />
The first Drama CD of Puella Magi Madoka Magica reveals that the reason that Madoka became a Puella Magi was to save a cat from being run over by a car. She admits that she is a text book example of someone who became a magical girl on a whim without thinking about it. Her wish was born from the kindness toward a cat. Truth be told, no fan (as I know) saw this one coming, yet at the same time it is not surprising considering this is Madoka we are talking about.<br />
<br />
Note that it is also very likely that she made the same wish in Timelines 2 and 3, though this is not confirmed.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Story timeline - I want to change everything!<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=12<br />
}}<br />
Madoka's wishes for a way to save all her friends and change the magical girl system permanently.<br />
<br />
This comes to pass in Episode 12 where Madoka wishes to purge the world of witches, though at the cost of her existence.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timeline 4 - I want the power to protect Homura-chan<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
In Timeline 4, seeing Homura getting beaten up by the WN, she wishes that she could have the power to protect Homura, no matter where she goes, so that she will never have to suffer because of her anymore. That can explain why in Timeline 4, she suddenly had awesome powers, and in Timeline 5, she still had those powers according to Kyubey. <br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Fight to save people<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Madoka wishes to help everyone in need, from suffering people, to the fallen such as Mami, to the witches lost in grief. She becomes a magical girl with the potential to solve any problem, but neither she, nor Kyubey, nor other magical girls have any idea how her powers work, so saving the world is still easier said than done.<br />
<br />
Unlikely given that she probably made the same wish that she did in Timeline 1, though this is not confirmed.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Power to Defeat the Most Powerful Witch<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
Witnessing Homura fight against an impossible foe, Madoka simply wishes for power -- enough to instantly defeat even the most powerful witch.<br />
<br />
This could be her wish in the timeline where Madoka defeats the Walpurgis Night easily but turns into an even more destructive witch afterward. However, this obviously does not apply to Madoka of timelines where she was already a magical girl when meeting Homura.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timelines 1-3 - Cake<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
Madoka wishes for cake.<br />
<br />
Unlikely given that she probably made the same wish that she did in Timeline 1, though this is not confirmed.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timelines 1-3 - I want to become a magical girl<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
Very obvious. Just like in Episode 1, but because Homura intervening her making this wish in the current time.<br />
<br />
Unlikely given that she probably made the same wish that she did in Timeline 1, though this is not confirmed.<br />
<br />
== Homura's Wish ==<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Do you really want her dream to come true?<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
Homura might have used her wish to help someone else (Madoka?) and is the person Mami was referring to when asking Sayaka whether she wanted to make someone's dream come true, or be thanked for making it come true.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=If you do, you'll lose everything<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
Homura might have wished to become the perfect girl and undo her previously unhappy life. She was a classmate and friend of Madoka, which is why she knows her way around the school. However, everyone's memories of Homura vanished because she wanted her old flawed, bullied, unpopular self to be forgotten.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Anywhere but here!<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Because Sayaka wished to heal Kamijou, she received healing powers in addition to the powers all other Magi have. <br />
Homura has a unique power as well - She can either teleport or move faster than the human eye can follow. This suggests that her wish had something to do with movement. One likely conclusion to draw from this line of reasoning is that she used her wish to run away from something, possibly an abusive family.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I wish my Oneesan was an unstoppable magical girl!<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Rather than choosing to be a magical girl herself, she was wished into being a magical girl -- perhaps from someone who loved her, such as a little sister. The little sister, or someone similar (another member of the family? A friend?) specifically wishes that Homura would be unstoppable, and ends up becoming a magical girl alongside her, but then dies in battle later. Homura, however, has become "immortal". If this was so, this would make her the one Mami is talking about when she warns against making wishes for other people. It also explains why she doesn't die/become injured when Charlotte chomps on her, why Kyubey seems to flipflop on his involvement in her wish, why Homura seems so mature (and claims to have seen many magical girls die in her lifetime), and why she doesn't appear to have any family (all of her family members have died from old age). (Original poster: The "immortality" bit of this might not apply since episode 6; every Puella Magi is effectively immortal if her soul gem is not destroyed. Not to mention this theory doesn't explain Homura's superspeed.)<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I want to redo what I did wrong.<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=10<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Homura wishes to avoid a fatal outcome and go back in time to redo everything.<br />
<br />
Revealed in episode 10. Homura from timeline 1 wished to go back in time and save Madoka from her fate. The exact wording of her wish was "I want to redo my meeting with Kaname-san. Instead of being protected by her, I want to protect her!"<br />
<br />
== Mami's Wish ==<br />
[[File:Manga_Mami_Wish.jpg|thumb|right|Mami's wish as shown in manga ver.]]<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I don't want to die, period<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
The most likely wish, as it is confirmed in general theory. Mami wished to be saved/not to die, with no further qualification.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I don't want to die alone!<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Before she met Madoka and friends, [[Mami]] was all alone-- her apartment was empty except for her presence, and had no contact with her family. When Kyubey made his offer, Mami wished to not die alone. As in many "deal with the devil" stories, the contract is upheld, yet in a twisted manner: Mami made new friends and immediately died before their eyes. This seems to be proven wrong in Episode 10, however, during one of the occurrences in which she dies.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Please help...<br />
|status=manga<br />
}}<br />
<br />
In manga canon, her wish is shown to be simply "please help" after being questioned by Kyubey about her wish in a car accident.<br />
<br />
== Sayaka's Wish ==<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Kamijou<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=4<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Sayaka has wished for Kamijou's arm to be healed. As a side-effect, the wish granted her the ability of fast recovering. Whether there are any downsides to this wish (such as the healing being temporary, Kamijou being killed shortly after his recovery, etc.) remains to be seen.<br />
<br />
== Kyouko's Wish ==<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I want to eat<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
<br />
According to abandoned child theory, she once almost ended up starving to death and wished for food when Kyubey appeared with his proposal. Since that time she does not have problems with hunger as long as she gets Grief seeds.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Someone believe my father<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=7<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Kyouko wished people to believe in her father's unorthodox teachings.<br />
[[Category:Articles]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Wish_theories&diff=10818Wish theories2011-04-27T03:55:12Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Madoka's Wish */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
<br />
[[Kyubey]]'s proposition includes granting a wish in exchange for the person to become a [[Glossary#Magical_Girl|mahou shoujo]]. This page lists those who have encountered Kyubey and guesses about wishes. Note that these are ''speculations'' and not the character's actual wishes.<br />
<br />
== Madoka's Wish ==<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Deus Ex Machina or "I wish Mami were alive"<br />
|status=debunked<br />
|episode=10<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Madoka wishes Mami back to life. This one is so easily corrupted, especially if the "Witches are fallen magical girls" theory proves true. You wished her alive Madoka, you never said as a magical girl!<br />
<br />
This theory has been proven wrong in Episode 10, where Madoka is a magical girl, even when Mami's still alive. However, being that Madoka's wish is never actually seen, this may be a wish in an alternate timeline somewhere in the series.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Procrastinating Until the End of the World<br />
|status=debunked<br />
|episode=10<br />
}}<br />
Madoka resists making a wish until the very end of the series, when the apocalyptic scenario from her dream comes into play, and she uses her wish to solve everything at once or cause a global reset. "I wish everything would go back to the way it was before I met Kyubey!"<br />
<br />
This, however, does not come to pass in Episode 12, the only timeline in which she could logically make this wish.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=The Human Instrumentality Project<br />
|status=debunked<br />
|episode=12<br />
}}<br />
Madoka wishes to end all suffering. Everyone gets hugged and turns into [[Morning Rescue]].<br />
<br />
This wish is never made by the end of the series, and presumably did not happen in the previous timelines as otherwise the whole suffering scenario wouldn't exist.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timeline 1 - Save that cat!<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|source=Drama CD 1<br />
}}<br />
The first Drama CD of Puella Magi Madoka Magica reveals that the reason that Madoka became a Puella Magi was to save a cat from being run over by a car. She admits that she is a text book example of someone who became a magical girl on a whim without thinking about it. Her wish was born from the kindness toward a cat. Truth be told, no fan (as I know) saw this one coming, yet at the same time it is not surprising considering this is Madoka we are talking about.<br />
<br />
Note that it is also very likely that she made the same wish in Timelines 2 and 3, though this is not confirmed.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Story timeline - I want to change everything!<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=12<br />
}}<br />
Madoka's wishes for a way to save all her friends and change the magical girl system permanently.<br />
<br />
This comes to pass in Episode 12 where Madoka wishes to purge the world of witches, though at the cost of her existence.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timeline 4 - I want the power to protect Homura-chan<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
In Timeline 4, seeing Homura getting beaten up by the WN, she wishes that she could have the power to protect Homura, no matter where she goes, so that she will never have to suffer because of her anymore. That can explain why in Timeline 4, she suddenly had awesome powers, and in Timeline 5, she still had those powers according to Kyubey. <br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Fight to save people<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Madoka wishes to help everyone in need, from suffering people, to the fallen such as Mami, to the witches lost in grief. She becomes a magical girl with the potential to solve any problem, but neither she, nor Kyubey, nor other magical girls have any idea how her powers work, so saving the world is still easier said than done.<br />
<br />
This is a possible wish for the original timeline, in which Madoka had exactly enough power to conclude the Walpurgis Night battle with all combatants dead. This is the safest outcome for the uninvolved civilians, the only way to save the magical girls from the danger of becoming witches, and the scenario that caused Homura to make a wish capable of surpassing the entropy issue, so this outcome maximizes Madoka's helpfulness to everyone.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Power to Defeat the Most Powerful Witch<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
Witnessing Homura fight against an impossible foe, Madoka simply wishes for power -- enough to instantly defeat even the most powerful witch.<br />
<br />
This could be her wish in the timeline where Madoka defeats the Walpurgis Night easily but turns into an even more destructive witch afterward. However, this obviously does not apply to Madoka of timelines where she was already a magical girl when meeting Homura.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timelines 1-3 - Cake<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
Madoka wishes for cake.<br />
<br />
Unlikely given that she probably made the same wish that she did in Timeline 1, though this is not confirmed.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Timelines 1-3 - I want to become a magical girl<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
Very obvious. Just like in Episode 1, but because Homura intervening her making this wish in the current time.<br />
<br />
Unlikely given that she probably made the same wish that she did in Timeline 1, though this is not confirmed.<br />
<br />
== Homura's Wish ==<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Do you really want her dream to come true?<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
Homura might have used her wish to help someone else (Madoka?) and is the person Mami was referring to when asking Sayaka whether she wanted to make someone's dream come true, or be thanked for making it come true.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=If you do, you'll lose everything<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
Homura might have wished to become the perfect girl and undo her previously unhappy life. She was a classmate and friend of Madoka, which is why she knows her way around the school. However, everyone's memories of Homura vanished because she wanted her old flawed, bullied, unpopular self to be forgotten.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Anywhere but here!<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Because Sayaka wished to heal Kamijou, she received healing powers in addition to the powers all other Magi have. <br />
Homura has a unique power as well - She can either teleport or move faster than the human eye can follow. This suggests that her wish had something to do with movement. One likely conclusion to draw from this line of reasoning is that she used her wish to run away from something, possibly an abusive family.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I wish my Oneesan was an unstoppable magical girl!<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Rather than choosing to be a magical girl herself, she was wished into being a magical girl -- perhaps from someone who loved her, such as a little sister. The little sister, or someone similar (another member of the family? A friend?) specifically wishes that Homura would be unstoppable, and ends up becoming a magical girl alongside her, but then dies in battle later. Homura, however, has become "immortal". If this was so, this would make her the one Mami is talking about when she warns against making wishes for other people. It also explains why she doesn't die/become injured when Charlotte chomps on her, why Kyubey seems to flipflop on his involvement in her wish, why Homura seems so mature (and claims to have seen many magical girls die in her lifetime), and why she doesn't appear to have any family (all of her family members have died from old age). (Original poster: The "immortality" bit of this might not apply since episode 6; every Puella Magi is effectively immortal if her soul gem is not destroyed. Not to mention this theory doesn't explain Homura's superspeed.)<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I want to redo what I did wrong.<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=10<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Homura wishes to avoid a fatal outcome and go back in time to redo everything.<br />
<br />
Revealed in episode 10. Homura from timeline 1 wished to go back in time and save Madoka from her fate. The exact wording of her wish was "I want to redo my meeting with Kaname-san. Instead of being protected by her, I want to protect her!"<br />
<br />
== Mami's Wish ==<br />
[[File:Manga_Mami_Wish.jpg|thumb|right|Mami's wish as shown in manga ver.]]<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I don't want to die, period<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
The most likely wish, as it is confirmed in general theory. Mami wished to be saved/not to die, with no further qualification.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I don't want to die alone!<br />
|status=unknown<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Before she met Madoka and friends, [[Mami]] was all alone-- her apartment was empty except for her presence, and had no contact with her family. When Kyubey made his offer, Mami wished to not die alone. As in many "deal with the devil" stories, the contract is upheld, yet in a twisted manner: Mami made new friends and immediately died before their eyes. This seems to be proven wrong in Episode 10, however, during one of the occurrences in which she dies.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Please help...<br />
|status=manga<br />
}}<br />
<br />
In manga canon, her wish is shown to be simply "please help" after being questioned by Kyubey about her wish in a car accident.<br />
<br />
== Sayaka's Wish ==<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Kamijou<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=4<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Sayaka has wished for Kamijou's arm to be healed. As a side-effect, the wish granted her the ability of fast recovering. Whether there are any downsides to this wish (such as the healing being temporary, Kamijou being killed shortly after his recovery, etc.) remains to be seen.<br />
<br />
== Kyouko's Wish ==<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=I want to eat<br />
|status=debunked<br />
}}<br />
<br />
According to abandoned child theory, she once almost ended up starving to death and wished for food when Kyubey appeared with his proposal. Since that time she does not have problems with hunger as long as she gets Grief seeds.<br />
<br />
{{wish_inline<br />
|title=Someone believe my father<br />
|status=confirmed<br />
|episode=7<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Kyouko wished people to believe in her father's unorthodox teachings.<br />
[[Category:Articles]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Speculah:C.I.Akemi_-_Homura%27s_intel_source&diff=10487Speculah:C.I.Akemi - Homura's intel source2011-04-26T15:03:57Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Points against the theory */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Homura residence 02.jpg|thumb|I got friends at [[wikipedia:Central_Intelligence_Agency|Langley]], bitch.|400px]]<br />
[[Homura Akemi]] has, ever since the start, displayed more knowledge than any other character, with the exception of [[Kyuubey]].<br />
At the same time, [[Speculah:The_Time_Travel_Theory|speculation grew that she was a time-traveler]]. That was confirmed in [[Episode 10]], along with a depiction of her past experiences in the repeating timeline, with the accumulated knowledge from those repetitions explaining how she is able to predict almost every occurrence in the current timeline. Thus, controversy on the origin of all that information subsided. Well, mostly.<br />
<br />
However, the time reset does not explain everything. There are several pieces of intel that Homura couldn't possibly have obtained through the recurring events in [[Mitakihara Town|Mitakihara]] in that fifteen day period.<br />
From her experience, she only knew that Kyuubey had tricked the girls, and the consequences and mechanics of the cycle (but not the reasoning behind it; and we have no information whether she knows it's purpose if to combat entropy). She must have gotten that information elsewhere.<br />
<br />
== Examples ==<br />
<br />
* Kyuubey's real name<br />
* [[Speculah:Walpurgis_Night|Walpurgis']] past occurrences in other cities<br />
* The files and pictures of other witches<br />
<br />
==Analysis==<br />
<br />
Let's analyze those three.<br />
<br />
The first is the most significant one. It's utterly impossible that she'd obtain Kyuubey's real name, Incubator, from [[Characters|anyone on the current cast]]. The only one who has learned it so far was [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]], during Kyuubey's explanation of the magical cycle, where he identified his race as "Incubators". However, it is safe to assume that it is the first time he does it, given the specific circumstances of this timeline. And that was only after Homura [[Episode 8|revealed she knew that]].<br />
<br />
The only other character that could have told her is Kyuubey. But there is simply no logical reason for that. Given that she had already contracted, he had absolutely no need to tell her that. One might argue he might have told her at a time in that timeline where it did no longer mattered, for example, [[Kriemhild Gretchen|after Madoka turned into a witch]]. It is something we usually see both in movies and real life. However, it requires at least one of two things: pity for the defeated adversary, and pride for knowing you've vanquished your adversary, and can speak the truth knowing they cannot do anything about it. Kyuubey can feel neither one nor the other. He is cold and emotionless: even if there was the slightest chance Homura could do something with that information, he would not tell her, ever.<br />
<br />
Another argument is that she could have continuously asked if this or that were true, and he'd tell her when she guessed it. But for that to happen, we would have to assume that Kyuubey is incapable of lying, which has been proven wrong by his lies to [[Kyouko Sakura|Kyouko]] in Episode 9. This is debatable, though.<br />
<br />
<br>The second and third are not as strong, but still valid.<br />
Files and pictures, so-called "statistics" by Homura are definitely easier to obtain that an unknown alien's real name. However, the amount of such files is massive. She possesses a wall chock full of it, plus those on the table. And this is not counting possible absent files, and other information she obtained, without the actual file (that is, things she heard or saw herself). And all of this in the same repeated fifteen days.<br />
So, where did she obtained those files?<br />
<br />
The obvious answer would be other magical girls, and possibly human reports of paranormal activity that matches the description of a witch attack (police reports, files from occultism clubs, [[wikipedia:The X-Files|etcetera]]). <br />
Kyouko, being her partner in this timeline, simply does not seem to be the kind to write and keep reports (she did knew what Walpurgis Night was; however, she states that she hasn't "heard stories" about it coming to Mitakihara. Therefore, we can assume that her information comes from rumors, which she'd usually hear, being a veteran).<br>Neither did [[Mami Tomoe|Mami]], the only other girl in the cast that could have this information (assuming Homura would loot her apartment for them).<br />
<br>Kyuubey, of course, has all the information, but would not give a dime of it, ever. Walpurgis is the key for all his schemes to unfold.<br />
<br />
==Who could it be?==<br />
<br />
Getting to the main point: if this mysterious source does exist, who could it be?<br />
<br />
Only two possibilities are foreseeable: a foreign, veteran magical girl, or another Incubator. Or an archive/intel cache left by either of them.<br />
<br />
The first one is rather simple: a magical girl from another city (or maybe not, simply laying low on the streets of Mitakihara), who learned the truth somehow and lived through it, archived and provided her with information. Possibly on her deathbed, wanting to avenge her, or maybe moved by Homura's story (assuming she'd tell her).<br />
It leaves the question how did they meet up. Either Homura heard rumors of her, or she was the one that sought after Homura.<br />
<br />
<br />
The second is more intricate. A second Incubator provided her with all the information on her species and Kyuubey's plans. <br>But why would he betray a member of their own species?<br />
There are some possibilities. <br />
Perhaps the Incubators are peaceful, even if emotionless, and actively investigating a way to stop, delay, or reverse entropy. They discovering the magical system, but discarded it due to to it's consequences, and proceeded to find other methods. Kyuubey, being the asshole he his, refused to accept that, and started making use of the magical system as means to obtain energy. This could have been done either under the Incubator's noses, or at open sight, making him a rogue element of his race.<br />
Thus, an Incubator was sent to Earth (or, in the undercover possibility, an Incubator that discovered the truth alone) to stop Kyuubey's madness. Having made contact with Homura in one of the timelines, he transmitted all useful information to her.<br />
<br />
An alternative could be the opposite: the race itself does not care about the means to obtain energy, but one member developed emotions (in a shout out to [[wikipedia:V_(2009_TV_series)|V]]), and went on a quest to stop the use of this abhorrent method. In this case, the "good" Incubator would be the rogue.<br />
<br />
Finally, it could simply be an Incubator with a grudge/personal rivalry with Kyuubey.<br />
<br />
Whatever the case, it's needless to say the information obtained from another Incubator is, of course, invaluable.<br />
<br />
All of this is, obviously, assuming the Incubators are separate individuals and not some sort of hive mind.<br />
<br />
The main problem to this theory is that, poorly executed, would lead to a horrible ending. But if there is one great thing about Madoka, is that the story is good, but the execution is flawless. So, no need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
==Points against the theory==<br />
<br />
*The doubt of how Homura learned Kyubey's name is based on the hypothesis that he is indeed capable of lying. <br>The act of lying is not an emotion, it's a purely rational decision to not tell the truth when it is not to the liar's advantage. Plus, there have been some examples of his ability to lie (namely, telling Kyoko that saving Sayaka wasn't impossible, when he later states it indeed is). <br>Still, it's an open debate. In the case that he is indeed incapable of lying, then he might have told her his real name, and the reason behind the cycle (as Homura, as far as we know, only knows the mechanics of the cycle, not the reason behind it). But one thing that is certain is that he omits important parts of the truth, even when asked. Therefore, in that case, Homura would have to be very specific with her question, for Kyubey to tell her the entire truth.<br />
** Note that Kyubey also openly calls his race "Incubators" to Madoka, so there would not seem to be any reason to hide at this point.<br />
<br />
*Also note, this whole theory is based on the fact that Homura might have met said source outside the screen. So, until that character appears on screen, or Homura confirms it's existence, this theory will remain [[Theories|just a theory]].<br />
<br />
*Some have considered traditional means of attaining the intel. Not only, like said above, police files of witch-like attacks, and reports from occultism clubs, but others like ancient books, and even the internet. While the first three are plausible means of obtaining ''some'' of the information (but never all of it), the last one is doubtful. The magic world is a seclusive one: it can't be expected to see magic-related news on the internet, or maybe even magical girl forums. Even less possible is to find actual photographs of the witches, and even more when we're talking about Walpurgis' previous attacks on other cities.<br />
<br />
*There are also some of Homura's lines, that she uses to reinforce her position as a lone wolf. The most significant of which being [[Episode 10|Episode 10's]] title, "I Won't Depend on Anyone Anymore". It's an ambiguous statement with a lot of interpretations, but given that the people she relied on until then (namely, the other magical girls) were depended on for fighting, training, and moral support, it's likely that she means not depending on anyone else for those actions. Relying on information given by others is likely not included. <br>In fact, if Homura is truly willing to take down all witches, including Walpurgis, and saving Madoka at the same time, all of this by herself, it would be foolish of her not try to obtain as much information as possible, for whatever source was available. And Homura may be a lot of things, but one she's not, is foolish. <br>Information is power. And for her herculean task, she needs all she can get, wherever it may come from. <br>The example being, she accepts Kyubey's advice that Sayaka is falling into despair faster than he thought. She knew she would fall, but, like Kyubey, not as fast. She accepts that, and tries to save her at the parking lot. Had her sentence applied to information as well, she would not trust him, and would not have tried to save her there.<br />
<br />
*It is worth noting that a lot of the stuff found on Homura's wall is stuff you can find by googling Walpurgis Night; it's historical references, paintings, and other stuff that would really not be hard to find on the web; and let's remember this is the girl who can make pipe bombs that take out witches in one hit using only the internet.<br />
** In Drama CD 1, Homura does exactly that to figure out what Walpurgis is.<br />
*In a similar vein, the aerial pictures of the city could just be taken from an equivalent of Google Earth; alternatively they were stolen from the same military depot she took her weapons from or from another random source.<br />
*Pictures of witches and magical girls can have two realistic sources: either she has a magical girl friend who takes pictures of witches, or she can use her time magic to analyze past data. This would actually explain how she's generally able to know exactly when and where things are going to happen. A third possible source is simply that she's used her knowledge of each witch to track them down in their magical girl forms and document them thoroughly. <br />
**A point for the theory that her time magic can be used to analyze this stuff is her apartment, which itself seems to be something that she'd have done with her magic, lending in to the idea she can do more than stop time or rewind it.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Articles]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Oriko_Magica&diff=10212Oriko Magica2011-04-25T10:08:53Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Translation of Official Site */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[file:Oriko Art.jpg|thumb|Promotional art for Oriko Magica]]<br />
<br />
'''Puella Magi Oriko Magica''' (魔法少女おりこ☆マギカ, ''Mahou Shoujo Oriko Magica'') is the second spin-off [[manga]] illustrated by Mura Kuroe with draft by Magica Quartet. The first volume will be published by ''[[wikipedia:Houbunsha|Houbunsha]]'' and features the return of [[Kyouko]] and [[Mami]] from the anime as well as new cast members.<br />
<br />
Although the first volume was initially intended to be released on April 12, 2011, the [[Wikipedia: 2011_Tōhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami| 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami]], as well as the subsequent postponement of the last two episodes of the anime has caused ''Oriko Magica'' to be postponed to May 12, 2011. The second volume will be released on June 13, 2011.<br />
<br />
==Plot==<br />
Promotional material indicates the story will be set after the events of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime anime], revolving around [[Kyouko Sakura|Kyouko]], [[Mami Tomoe|Mami]], [[Homura Akemi|Homura]], and a new magical girl named Oriko. [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]] may make a vague appearance.<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
;[[Mami Tomoe]]<br />
<br />
;[[Kyouko Sakura]]<br />
<br />
;Oriko (おりこ)<br />
<br />
;[[Madoka Kaname]]<br />
<br />
;[[Homura Akemi]]<br />
<br />
==Translation of Official Site== <br />
Who is this girl that stands in front of Mami and Kyouko? Another story of Mami, Kyouko and Madoka that has never been shown in the anime. Official spin-off comic, "Mahou Shoujo Oriko Magica" Volume 1, coming soon!<br />
<br />
==Official synopsis==<br />
<br />
From the big-hit original animation series, "Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica', new spin-off comics will be published with whole new writing/story! Kyouko Sakura, who spends the day for noble battle, Mami Tomoe who protects Mitakiharashi city with the heart of justice, Homura Akemi, who silently reaches Madoka Kaname bit by bit. The battles of each mahou shoujo's battle that should never cross, is recreated as one story centering the incident of magical girl hunting. This is, the incident that changes the entire destiny of girls. This is, the start of new magical girl story...<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/oriko/ Official website for ''Puella Magi Oriko Magica'']<br />
<br />
[[Category:Manga]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Oriko_Magica&diff=10211Oriko Magica2011-04-25T10:07:16Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Plot */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[file:Oriko Art.jpg|thumb|Promotional art for Oriko Magica]]<br />
<br />
'''Puella Magi Oriko Magica''' (魔法少女おりこ☆マギカ, ''Mahou Shoujo Oriko Magica'') is the second spin-off [[manga]] illustrated by Mura Kuroe with draft by Magica Quartet. The first volume will be published by ''[[wikipedia:Houbunsha|Houbunsha]]'' and features the return of [[Kyouko]] and [[Mami]] from the anime as well as new cast members.<br />
<br />
Although the first volume was initially intended to be released on April 12, 2011, the [[Wikipedia: 2011_Tōhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami| 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami]], as well as the subsequent postponement of the last two episodes of the anime has caused ''Oriko Magica'' to be postponed to May 12, 2011. The second volume will be released on June 13, 2011.<br />
<br />
==Plot==<br />
Promotional material indicates the story will be set after the events of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime anime], revolving around [[Kyouko Sakura|Kyouko]], [[Mami Tomoe|Mami]], [[Homura Akemi|Homura]], and a new magical girl named Oriko. [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]] may make a vague appearance.<br />
<br />
==Characters==<br />
;[[Mami Tomoe]]<br />
<br />
;[[Kyouko Sakura]]<br />
<br />
;Oriko (おりこ)<br />
<br />
;[[Madoka Kaname]]<br />
<br />
;[[Homura Akemi]]<br />
<br />
==Translation of Official Site== <br />
Who is this girl that stands in front of Mami and Kyouko? Another story of Mami, Kyouko and Madoka that has never been shown in the anime. Official spin-off comic, "Mahou Shoujo Oriko Magica" Volume 1, coming soon!<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/oriko/ Official website for ''Puella Magi Oriko Magica'']<br />
<br />
[[Category:Manga]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Speculah:Witches_as_Fallen_Magical_Girls_Theory&diff=10187Speculah:Witches as Fallen Magical Girls Theory2011-04-25T07:43:43Z<p>Aster Selene: Correct Latin is "Puella Magica", so I can't say much for that paragraph.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Sayaka as a witch.jpg|thumb|Sayaka as a witch]]<br />
As of episode 8, one of the origins of witches has been confirmed. Sayaka's soul gem that never was cleansed causes her to transform to a witch.<br />
<br />
Episode 2 shows that witches and magical girls both possess some sort of gem, which is called Grief Seed in the former case and Soul Gem in the latter. We also know from Mami's explanations that people can become Magical Girls by exchanging a wish for a Gem, while Witches, on the other hand, originates from a curse. It has also been pinpointed that in a way, a curse is nothing else than a "negative wish", i.e. the wish to harm someone.<br />
<br />
But the similarity between both gems owners is greater than that. As seen at the end of episode 2, a Grief Seed looks like a muddied Soul Gem. Furthermore, Mami states that by using magic, her Soul Gem became dirty, and that she can use the Grief Seed to absorb this "mud" and make it clean again, therefore restoring its magical powers. As a side note, we learn in the same scene that a Grief Seed can be used more than once (Mami gives hers to Homura stating that "it can still be used once").<br />
<br />
Now, what we can infer from that is that witches may just be "fallen magical girls". Granted that using magic makes your Gem dirty, and the only way to restore them is to kill witches and steal their Seeds, there could be magical girls that used up all their powers without ever recharging them (because they weren't aware of it or because they refused to kill witches), and so became witches themselves. On the other hand, no explanation has been given so far (episode 2) as to whether a witch can clean their seed (and hence turn back into a magical girl if the aforementioned theory is correct), though as of episode 9, this is proven to be highly unlikely if at all possible. <br />
<br />
Alternatively, it is possible that a Witch's Labyrinth is in fact the manifestation of a wish. Upon completion of a contract and fulfillment of a magical girl's wish, she is imprisoned within a false world in which her wish appears to be realized. To other humans, however, the "world" in which the magical girl now lives is a Witch's Labyrinth -- a hedonistic dream, generated by the Witch's strongest desire. By this theory, all magical girls who are not killed before completion of a contract are eventually rendered witches. In effect, the propagation of familiars may be thought of as a mechanism to ensure the continuation of a Witch's dream -- by feeding on the hopes and dreams of others. Relatedly, the cleaning/recharging of a Soul Gem may indicate that the wish of a magical girl feeds on the dreams of defeated witches.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Articles]]<br />
[[Category:Confirmed theories]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Speculah:C.I.Akemi_-_Homura%27s_intel_source&diff=10183Speculah:C.I.Akemi - Homura's intel source2011-04-25T07:38:07Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Points against the theory */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Homura residence 02.jpg|thumb|I got friends at [[wikipedia:Central_Intelligence_Agency|Langley]], bitch.|400px]]<br />
[[Homura Akemi]] has, ever since the start, displayed more knowledge than any other character, with the exception of [[Kyuubey]].<br />
At the same time, [[Speculah:The_Time_Travel_Theory|speculation grew that she was a time-traveler]]. That was confirmed in [[Episode 10]], along with a depiction of her past experiences in the repeating timeline, with the accumulated knowledge from those repetitions explaining how she is able to predict almost every occurrence in the current timeline. Thus, controversy on the origin of all that information subsided. Well, mostly.<br />
<br />
However, the time reset does not explain everything. There are several pieces of intel that Homura couldn't possibly have obtained through the recurring events in [[Mitakihara Town|Mitakihara]] in that fifteen day period.<br />
From her experience, she only knew that Kyuubey had tricked the girls, and the consequences and mechanics of the cycle (but not the reasoning behind it; and we have no information whether she knows it's purpose if to combat entropy). She must have gotten that information elsewhere.<br />
<br />
== Examples ==<br />
<br />
* Kyuubey's real name<br />
* [[Speculah:Walpurgis_Night|Walpurgis']] past occurrences in other cities<br />
* The files and pictures of other witches<br />
<br />
==Analysis==<br />
<br />
Let's analyze those three.<br />
<br />
The first is the most significant one. It's utterly impossible that she'd obtain Kyuubey's real name, Incubator, from [[Characters|anyone on the current cast]]. The only one who has learned it so far was [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]], during Kyuubey's explanation of the magical cycle, where he identified his race as "Incubators". However, it is safe to assume that it is the first time he does it, given the specific circumstances of this timeline. And that was only after Homura [[Episode 8|revealed she knew that]].<br />
<br />
The only other character that could have told her is Kyuubey. But there is simply no logical reason for that. Given that she had already contracted, he had absolutely no need to tell her that. One might argue he might have told her at a time in that timeline where it did no longer mattered, for example, [[Kriemhild Gretchen|after Madoka turned into a witch]]. It is something we usually see both in movies and real life. However, it requires at least one of two things: pity for the defeated adversary, and pride for knowing you've vanquished your adversary, and can speak the truth knowing they cannot do anything about it. Kyuubey can feel neither one nor the other. He is cold and emotionless: even if there was the slightest chance Homura could do something with that information, he would not tell her, ever.<br />
<br />
Another argument is that she could have continuously asked if this or that were true, and he'd tell her when she guessed it. But for that to happen, we would have to assume that Kyuubey is incapable of lying, which has been proven wrong by his lies to [[Kyouko Sakura|Kyouko]] in Episode 9. This is debatable, though.<br />
<br />
<br>The second and third are not as strong, but still valid.<br />
Files and pictures, so-called "statistics" by Homura are definitely easier to obtain that an unknown alien's real name. However, the amount of such files is massive. She possesses a wall chock full of it, plus those on the table. And this is not counting possible absent files, and other information she obtained, without the actual file (that is, things she heard or saw herself). And all of this in the same repeated fifteen days.<br />
So, where did she obtained those files?<br />
<br />
The obvious answer would be other magical girls, and possibly human reports of paranormal activity that matches the description of a witch attack (police reports, files from occultism clubs, [[wikipedia:The X-Files|etcetera]]). <br />
Kyouko, being her partner in this timeline, simply does not seem to be the kind to write and keep reports (she did knew what Walpurgis Night was; however, she states that she hasn't "heard stories" about it coming to Mitakihara. Therefore, we can assume that her information comes from rumors, which she'd usually hear, being a veteran).<br>Neither did [[Mami Tomoe|Mami]], the only other girl in the cast that could have this information (assuming Homura would loot her apartment for them).<br />
<br>Kyuubey, of course, has all the information, but would not give a dime of it, ever. Walpurgis is the key for all his schemes to unfold.<br />
<br />
==Who could it be?==<br />
<br />
Getting to the main point: if this mysterious source does exist, who could it be?<br />
<br />
Only two possibilities are foreseeable: a foreign, veteran magical girl, or another Incubator. Or an archive/intel cache left by either of them.<br />
<br />
The first one is rather simple: a magical girl from another city (or maybe not, simply laying low on the streets of Mitakihara), who learned the truth somehow and lived through it, archived and provided her with information. Possibly on her deathbed, wanting to avenge her, or maybe moved by Homura's story (assuming she'd tell her).<br />
It leaves the question how did they meet up. Either Homura heard rumors of her, or she was the one that sought after Homura.<br />
<br />
<br />
The second is more intricate. A second Incubator provided her with all the information on her species and Kyuubey's plans. <br>But why would he betray a member of their own species?<br />
There are some possibilities. <br />
Perhaps the Incubators are peaceful, even if emotionless, and actively investigating a way to stop, delay, or reverse entropy. They discovering the magical system, but discarded it due to to it's consequences, and proceeded to find other methods. Kyuubey, being the asshole he his, refused to accept that, and started making use of the magical system as means to obtain energy. This could have been done either under the Incubator's noses, or at open sight, making him a rogue element of his race.<br />
Thus, an Incubator was sent to Earth (or, in the undercover possibility, an Incubator that discovered the truth alone) to stop Kyuubey's madness. Having made contact with Homura in one of the timelines, he transmitted all useful information to her.<br />
<br />
An alternative could be the opposite: the race itself does not care about the means to obtain energy, but one member developed emotions (in a shout out to [[wikipedia:V_(2009_TV_series)|V]]), and went on a quest to stop the use of this abhorrent method. In this case, the "good" Incubator would be the rogue.<br />
<br />
Finally, it could simply be an Incubator with a grudge/personal rivalry with Kyuubey.<br />
<br />
Whatever the case, it's needless to say the information obtained from another Incubator is, of course, invaluable.<br />
<br />
All of this is, obviously, assuming the Incubators are separate individuals and not some sort of hive mind.<br />
<br />
The main problem to this theory is that, poorly executed, would lead to a horrible ending. But if there is one great thing about Madoka, is that the story is good, but the execution is flawless. So, no need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
==Points against the theory==<br />
<br />
*The doubt of how Homura learned Kyubey's name is based on the hypothesis that he is indeed capable of lying. <br>The act of lying is not an emotion, it's a purely rational decision to not tell the truth when it is not to the liar's advantage. Plus, there have been some examples of his ability to lie (namely, telling Kyoko that saving Sayaka wasn't impossible, when he later states it indeed is). <br>Still, it's an open debate. In the case that he is indeed incapable of lying, then he might have told her his real name, and the reason behind the cycle (as Homura, as far as we know, only knows the mechanics of the cycle, not the reason behind it). But one thing that is certain is that he omits important parts of the truth, even when asked. Therefore, in that case, Homura would have to be very specific with her question, for Kyubey to tell her the entire truth.<br />
** Note that Kyubey also openly calls his race "Incubators" to Madoka, so there would not seem to be any reason to hide at this point.<br />
<br />
*Also note, this whole theory is based on the fact that Homura might have met said source outside the screen. So, until that character appears on screen, or Homura confirms it's existence, this theory will remain [[Theories|just a theory]].<br />
<br />
*Some have considered traditional means of attaining the intel. Not only, like said above, police files of witch-like attacks, and reports from occultism clubs, but others like ancient books, and even the internet. While the first three are plausible means of obtaining ''some'' of the information (but never all of it), the last one is doubtful. The magic world is a seclusive one: it can't be expected to see magic-related news on the internet, or maybe even magical girl forums. Even less possible is to find actual photographs of the witches, and even more when we're talking about Walpurgis' previous attacks on other cities.<br />
<br />
*There are also some of Homura's lines, that she uses to reinforce her position as a lone wolf. The most significant of which being [[Episode 10|Episode 10's]] title, "I Won't Depend on Anyone Anymore". It's an ambiguous statement with a lot of interpretations, but given that the people she relied on until then (namely, the other magical girls) were depended on for fighting, training, and moral support, it's likely that she means not depending on anyone else for those actions. Relying on information given by others is likely not included. <br>In fact, if Homura is truly willing to take down all witches, including Walpurgis, and saving Madoka at the same time, all of this by herself, it would be foolish of her not try to obtain as much information as possible, for whatever source was available. And Homura may be a lot of things, but one she's not, is foolish. <br>Information is power. And for her herculean task, she needs all she can get, wherever it may come from. <br>The example being, she accepts Kyubey's advice that Sayaka is falling into despair faster than he thought. She knew she would fall, but, like Kyubey, not as fast. She accepts that, and tries to save her at the parking lot. Had her sentence applied to information as well, she would not trust him, and would not have tried to save her there.<br />
<br />
*It is worth noting that a lot of the stuff found on Homura's wall is stuff you can find by googling Walpurgis Night; it's historical references, paintings, and other stuff that would really not be hard to find on the web; and let's remember this is the girl who can make pipe bombs that take out witches in one hit using only the internet.<br />
*In a similar vein, the aerial pictures of the city could just be taken from an equivalent of Google Earth; alternatively they were stolen from the same military depot she took her weapons from or from another random source.<br />
*Pictures of witches and magical girls can have two realistic sources: either she has a magical girl friend who takes pictures of witches, or she can use her time magic to analyze past data. This would actually explain how she's generally able to know exactly when and where things are going to happen. A third possible source is simply that she's used her knowledge of each witch to track them down in their magical girl forms and document them thoroughly. <br />
**A point for the theory that her time magic can be used to analyze this stuff is her apartment, which itself seems to be something that she'd have done with her magic, lending in to the idea she can do more than stop time or rewind it.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Articles]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Speculah:Puellae_Magi_Don%27t_Age&diff=10179Speculah:Puellae Magi Don't Age2011-04-25T07:18:20Z<p>Aster Selene: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:How old are you.jpg|thumb|How old is Kyouko?]]<br />
This speculah was first spotted in animefan's comment on [http://thoughteclipse.blog.com/2011/02/18/mahou-shoujo-madoka%E2%98%85magica-7-the-road-to-hell-is-paved-with-good-intentions/ Steel's blog post about Episode 7]. Whether it is his original theory or not is unknown.<br />
<br />
The theory basically says that Puella Magi, due to the "zombie"-like nature of their bodies, stop aging the day they make the contract. The explanation given in the original comment is that rather than the original body becoming soulless, it is "replaced altogether by a magical meat puppet that approximates her old body appearance", though other explanations for the same basic theory are also possible.<br />
<br />
=== Evidence ===<br />
<br />
* [[Kyouko Sakura]] gives most evidence:<br />
** She speaks in an "arcane" dialect of Japanese; however, characters using strange speech patterns or dialects isn't uncommon in anime (still, it's a fair point).<br />
** In her memories in [[Episode 7]], she is seen in clothes of Victorian style, while not looking significantly younger; moreover, some events in these memories indicate a different age, like the water bucket; however, the highly stylized nature of the memories scenes may mean it is not a valid evidence. On the other hand, she was also shown, in normal animation during her memories, to be wearing modern clothes before her contract with Kyubey, thus dispelling the possibility of her born before the late 20th century.<br />
** We never see any hint of her going to school, which might mean she's graduated; however it's also possible that since she came from a family that could barely afford food, it's why she's not going to school.<br />
** Kyouko is also able to use her Soul Gem's magic to keep [[Sayaka Miki]]'s body from going cold/decomposing after death. While this isn't outright defying the concept of aging, it comes rather close.<br />
** In the concept art showing a younger Kyouko and her family, Kyouko and her sister are wearing fairly modern clothes; however, the art is not within context.<br />
* [[Homura Akemi|Homura]] speaks about seeing many Puella Magi die, and trying to stop girls from becoming Puella Magi many times, implying that she's doing it for a very long time - yet she passes as a 13-14-year-old. Not to mention about her Intelligence as shown in episode 1. ''<span style="color:#e00;">(In [[Episode 10]], it was revealed that {{Spoiler|she simply saw the same Puella Magi die multiple times due to having traveled back in time multiple times due to her wish.}})</span>''<br />
* In the retrospect scene of [[Mami Tomoe|Mami]] making a contract with [[Kyuubey|Kyubey]] in [[Episode 3]], she appears to be of the same age as she is in the current timeline, while she is said to be a long-time and experienced Puella Magi. However, it's worth keeping in mind that "long time" for a Puella Magi could just mean a few months, or maybe just a year, and in that timeframe Mami wouldn't have changed enough for it to be noticeable.<br />
* {{Spoiler|Near the end of the final episode, Homura is seen in what some have interpreted as a post-apocalyptic wasteland of the far future; this must be taken with a grain of salt, though, since it's pure speculation.}}<br />
<br />
None of this evidence can be considered a hard proof, though.<br />
<br />
A possible variation of this theory is that every Puella Magi can choose herself whether to age or not. It can be further variated that they are not aware of that choice - it may be linked with the decision not to feel body pain (about which [[Kyuubey|Kyubey]] was talking to [[Sayaka Miki|Sayaka]] in [[Episode 7]]'s pre-OP scene), for example.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Articles]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Madoka_Magica_Trivia&diff=10159Madoka Magica Trivia2011-04-25T04:41:10Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Puella Magi Madoka Magica */</p>
<hr />
<div>[[File:Madoka Thread Macro 13.png|thumb|250px]]<br />
<!-- This page is about facts and various trivia spotted through the episodes. --><br />
This page is about minor facts and observations made throughout the series. For in-depth articles about the setting, please refer to the [[:Category:Confirmed theories|"Confirmed Theories" category]].<br>You will also find all up-to-date articles (including fan speculations and articles that were proven wrong) on the [[Articles]] page.<br />
==General==<br />
===Puella Magi Madoka Magica===<br />
<!--"Puella Magi" is not Latin for "Magical Girl". This actually translates to "Girl of the wiseman".<br />
<br />
The intended latin, considering the translation of "Mahou Shoujo" in japanese, is likely "Puella Magica."--><br />
Puella Magi was supposed to be latin for "Magical Girl". However, if that was the intended translation, then "Puella Magi" is a mistranslation, and should have been either "Puella Maga" or "Puella Magica".<br />
<br />
As-is, "Puella Magi" translates to "Girl of the Sorcerer".<br />
<br />
Events of [[Episode 8]] suggest that {{Spoiler|it may indeed be intentional. Disregarding the verbal gender of "magi" (male mage), when interpreted as "girl [form] of the sorcerer", it fits very well with the fact that Puella Magi are immature forms of witches. It even preserves Kyubey's pun in original Japanese to some extent, although a witch would be more conventionally called "melefica" in Latin, rather than "magus". If interpreted a different way, "the sorcerer's girl", it implies that the girls are being used - which they are, by Kyubey.}}<br />
<br />
===About the logo===<br />
<br />
[[File:Madoka_logo.png|thumb|250px]]<br />
Japanese fans noticed that the font of the kanji "魔法" (mahou, magic) in the show's logo text is heavily stylized, and could be read instead as "廃怯" (hai-kyou, cowardice, hesitation).<br>The visually valid joke title, "廃怯少女 まどか☆マギカ" (Hai-Kyou Shoujo Madoka Magika), could be translated as "wavering girl Madoka Magica"<br />
<br />
===Opening Animation Sequence===<br />
Minor differences have been noted in the opening sequence when comparing Episode 1 and 2 with the rest (up to Episode 9). The first subtle anomaly noted is in Madoka's transformation sequence: Episodes 3 to 9 feature rotating runes, whereas the runes in Episode 1 and 2 are moving slo-mo to a point they seem motionless. The second anomaly is found near the end of the OP with the city skyline shots - a golden beam of light can be seen shooting skywards from Episodes 3 to 9, but none in Episode 1 and 2. Note that regardless, the camera still panned upward. Both of these anomalies can be seen as being symbolic in nature, but to what degree? That remains to be revealed.<br />
<br />
In Episode 10, the group shot of Mami, Sayaka and Madoka has been updated with Kyouko and Homura in it. Is this a hint that all Puella Magi will perish? The observation is as follows: Mami, Sayaka and Madoka were probably originally meant to meet their end in this timeline (hence their 'obituary' photo), but due to Homura's interference, events meant to happen in this timeline changed. This led to Kyouko sacrificing her life. As of Episode 9, three Puella Magi lost their lives. Now that Homura and Kyouko are featured in the group shot, does that mean Homura will perish in this timeline along with the rest to end the Magical Girl<->Witch cycle? Time will tell...<br />
<br />
===Family Name===<br />
All Magical Girls have personal-name-sounding family names, although this is not particularly uncommon in anime. (See also: [[Speculah:Name]])<br />
<br />
===Witch's Labyrinth===<br />
The labyrinths consist both of elements from their locations in reality and of allusions to the witches that create them.<br />
Deeper within the labyrinth, more references to the witch will be seen and fewer elements from reality show up.<br />
For example, in episode one, the labyrinth is set in a floor waiting for refurbishing, and thus was filled with 'under construction' signs and barriers. In episode two, the labyrinth is set in an abandoned concrete building, thus the rooms in the labyrinth are made of solid concrete. As the protagonists approach the the final room, elements of a rose garden start to dominate over the construction elements.<br />
In episode three, [[Charlotte]]'s labyrinth has a hospital theme, therefore surgery signs, needles, gallipots and wards are presented first, but deeper in, those are replaced by various kinds of desserts.<br />
<br />
===Death of Cyrus Hamlin===<br />
The editor of the Norton Critical edition of Goethe's Faust, Cyrus Hamlin, passed away on January 19, 2011, the day before the third episode of Puella Magi Madoka Magica aired. While entirely a coincidence, it is nevertheless a mildly eerie coincidence. <br />
<br />
:"I do not expect to attempt yet another revision of my notes to 'Faust' -- for that, alas!, life is too short, as both Wagner and Mephistopheles knew -- but I hope on the basis of what is now nearly four decades of work on Goethe's drama to continue indefinitely my exploration into the riches of this unique and inexhaustible masterpiece of our culture." - Cyrus Hamlin, January 2000<br />
<br />
If only he could have watched Shaft's exploration.<br />
<br />
===Soul Gem and Grief Seed===<br />
The pin on top of both soul gem and grief seed is also the emblem of the holder, although Witches have a second symbol used for their witch's kiss and barrier.<br />
The seed Gertrud holds has a butterfly emblem, which is shown on her minions and her face when she attempted to attack Mami.<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Grief_seed.png|Gertrud's Grief Seed<br />
File:Gertrud_attacks.png|Gertrud's face.<br />
</gallery><br />
Charlotte's seed has a emblem containing concentric circles with ribbons, representing a strawberry. This is also shown on her minions and the other doll sitting at her table which is stomped on by Homura and may have been Charlotte's true body.<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Charlotte_seed.png|Charlotte's Grief Seed<br />
File:Episode_3_runes.jpg|Note the similarity of the pin and the doll sitting on the left.<br />
</gallery><br />
The Soul Gem Mami holds has a flower like design, which is the same as her hair accessory and transformation effects, as well as the gem's shape when she is transformed.<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Soul_gem.png|Mami's Soul Gem<br />
File:Mami_Tomoe_Anime_Design.jpg|Note the design of the hair accessory.<br />
</gallery><br />
While the emblems on the grief seeds are the actual "faces" of the witches, the ones on soul gem could resemble accessories<br />
such as swirls and capes. Also note that the soul gem can abbreviated as SG, while Grief Seed is GS.<br><br />
It has been additionally observed that the Soul Gems and Grief Seeds are quite similar in design to egg carvings -- particularly Easter Eggs produced by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faberg%C3%A9_egg the House of Fabergé] in the late 19th Century.<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Hz-cnmyalibaba-web2_32561.jpg|A European-style music box comprising of a carved egg. Made in China.<br />
File:357px-Madonna_Lily_Egg.jpg|The Madonna Lily Egg, a carved Easter Egg created by the House of Fabergé in 1899.<br />
File:Carving-a-lattice-and-acanthus-pattern-on-an-emu-e.jpg|A modern imitation of the Fabergé eggs.<br />
File:Le master egg carving rhea.jpg|A modern egg carving, similar in design to a Grief Seed.<br />
</gallery><br />
In ring form, the soul gem rings bear the owner's given name on them in "archaic" style runes as seen in the witches' barriers. These are the girls' original names - visible on Homura's ring in ep 5 and 10 ({{Runes|HOMURA}}), and Kyouko's ring in ep 7 ({{Runes|KYOKO}}.) The girls wear the rings on their left middle fingers.<br />
<br />
[[File:Magicalitems.jpg|900px]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Architecture===<br />
See [[Mitakihara_Town#Architecture_in_the_Anime_versus_Real-Life_Architecture|Architecture in the Anime versus Real-Life Architecture]].<br />
<br />
===Character Appearances===<br />
See [[Character Appearance]] for which characters appeared in each episode of the anime.<br />
<br />
===Timeline===<br />
See [[Timeline]] for timelines showing the sequences of events and analysis of chronological markers such as moon phases.<br />
<br />
==Observations by episode==<br />
*[[Episode 1#Observations|Episode 1]]<br />
*[[Episode 2#Observations|Episode 2]]<br />
*[[Episode 3#Observations|Episode 3]]<br />
*[[Episode 4#Observations|Episode 4]]<br />
*[[Episode 5#Observations|Episode 5]]<br />
*[[Episode 6#Observations|Episode 6]]<br />
*[[Episode 7#Observations|Episode 7]]<br />
*[[Episode 8#Observations|Episode 8]]<br />
*[[Episode 9#Speculations_and_Observations|Episode 9]]<br />
*[[Episode 10#Speculations_and_Observations|Episode 10]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Glossary&diff=9914Talk:Glossary2011-04-23T19:16:27Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl */</p>
<hr />
<div>requires a redesign, I don't know how to do it..<br />
::Like, a new template which includes the japanese info, the english intepretation, and a thumbnail? --[[User:Sayaka|Sayaka]] 05:54, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:::exactly [[User:Commie|Commie]] 05:56, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
If anyone is a coding wizard, please redesign the template at [[Template:Card_2]] so that it looks nicer!<br />
:--[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 03:12, 28 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== japanese translations only? ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that the last sentence of "Soul gem" is not translated from the glossary on the webpage. Should we separate such things out, or is it fine to mix? [[User:Oatmeal|Oatmeal]] 10:46, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
:I noticed it too, but I left the sentence since it explains a former unknown side of soul gems. Perhaps we could divide the official definition and further notes, e.g.<br />
:''Official Text''<br />Notes<br />
:--[[User:Anon-kun|Anon-kun]] 11:15, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
::I think we better put non-official info outside the template (see below), so we can add miscellaneous informations this way too, e.g. barrier's appearance, familiar's role when they're not fighting (in Inukare interview), grief seed appearance and such. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:00, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
=== Purposed page style ===<br />
<div style="border: 1px solid #ddd; padding: 5px 10px; background: #fff;"><br />
<h3>Barrier</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Barrier|結界|Kekkai}}<br />
|description = An otherworld used by [[Witch]]es to conceal themselves. Should a normal human wander in by accident, it is impossible for them to escape.<br />
|image = File:Witch ep2 entering.jpg<br />
|image_desc = Madoka and friends entering [[Gertrud|Gertrud's]] barrier.<br />
}}<br />
Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Sed molestie augue sit amet leo consequat posuere. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis.<br />
<br />
<h3>Familiar</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Familiar|使い魔|Tsukaima}}<br />
|description = Lesser monsters divided out of the essence of a [[Witch]]. Though normally assigned the task of maintaining and defending their parent-witch's [[barrier]], it seems that they can eventually gain independence and stray to form their own barriers. Further growing, they take on the form of their parent.<br />
|image = File:Ulla_screen.png<br />
|image_desc = [[Ulla]], [[Suleika]]'s familiar in his own [[barrier]].<br />
}}<br />
Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis. In condimentum facilisis porta. Sed nec diam eu diam mattis viverra. Nulla fringilla, orci ac euismod semper, magna diam porttitor mauris, quis sollicitudin sapien justo in libero. Vestibulum mollis mauris enim. Morbi euismod magna.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Familiar vs Minion==<br />
What's the wiki-wide guideline on usage of familiar vs minion? A quick search shows that we use the two words interchangeably. Should we just stick with familiar, since it's in the glossary? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 07:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Up till now I don't think there has been any guideline. Since the "official" term is familiar (使い魔) and not minion (手下), it would be relevant to stick with "familiar". The problem if we want to revert the existing pages is to skim through all the pages and change it (plus sometimes, "minion" is used to avoid repetition so we can't really use an automated solution either) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
Let me make my reasoning a bit more clear: The important part of Kyubey's words in episode 8 is "In this country," In other words, the characters are speaking normally: plain, everyday Japanese, which, by extension, would be translated into plain, everyday English subtitles. If we were really supposed to be hearing the more exotic "puella magi" whenever we heard the words "mahō shōjo":<br />
*Kyubey wouldn't have emphasized this in the first place, and it would have been kept vague.<br />
*We would have heard "puella magi" in Engrish (Ratin?), as with Soul Gem and Grief Seed, anyway.<br />
I always preferred magical girl, myself, but I'd admit it was a bit of a toss-up—until now. —[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 01:04, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:Eh. It's not like "magical girl" isn't already in the entry. What it's listed under is largely a matter of aesthetics. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 01:07, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
::Addendum: There is an argument to be made for the simultaneous correctness of multiple 'possible' interpretations. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:::The title's one thing (Japanese to Latin by the creator's choice), but then there's the actual term used in the dialogue (Japanese to English). I don't think the characters themselves would could be saying either/both at this point.<br />
:::—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Another theory - "Puella Magi" represents the term as coined originally, since Kyubey obviously isn't Japanese :D It may be the term in Kyubey's original language. Your reasoning does make sense in a way, but firstly, "Puella Magi" is in the "official" romanized title, and secondly - well, it's all over there in the wiki. Editing every entry to change "Puella Magi" into "magical girl" would be too much of a burden :D --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 02:24, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:If puella magi was the original term, I think it would only strengthen my case here, since both terms would exist side-by-side in-universe (expanding on the Ratin bullet point above).<br />
:I went into the difference with the title above. The title was what actually what kept it either/or for me, but I think this line gets rid of that ambiguity rather handily. I agree that changing it everywhere would be a royal pain, but, well, it wouldn't have to happen overnight or anything. Another thing for the [[Wishlist|"To Do" pile]], I guess.<br />
:—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Let me put it more directly: <br />
::*The Mahou Shoujo -> Majo Pun does not work in English, given that the term "Magical Girl" does not have anything to do with the term "Witch." <br />
::*Per the above, "Mahou Shoujo" being correct in Japanese does not make "Magical Girl" a proper parallel term / equivalent in English; it doesn't have the same lingual characteristics that make the pun succeed in Japanese. If the term for "Witch" in English were not "Witch," but something like "Magical Woman," I would not be saying this. <br />
::*The only official translation for "Mahou Shoujo" in Roman alphabetization is "Puella Magi." Irregardless of whether or not this is proper Latin, it's official.<br />
::*The term "Mahou Shoujo" is intended for consumption by a Japanese audience. No actual officially approved translation of the term '''as it appears in dialogue''' presently exists, and no translation fans provide can be officially correct. <br />
::I really don't understand why you're being so insistent on an unofficial translation like "Magical Girl" being "more" correct than something supplied by the creators. If you must, add this thing as a speculah. It's bad form to make out a pet theory as something resembling an official translation or canon by editing the title of the Glossary term. Further, how exactly does this one line by Kyuubey get rid of the ambiguity? Regardless of how you cut it, we don't know what precisely the creators' intended translation is -- only what they intended for the Japanese. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
when you take the first and the last kanji of mahou shoujo you get majo. it´s better to leave it at this<br />
魔(法少)女<br />
<br />
Not that argument again... How many times has it been discussed in the threads up till now? Nobody uses Puella Magi in the actual show, the only occurrences being the title (which is the title of the franchise, just like the "(...) Lyrical" in Nanoha's titles) and gg being gg. Anyway, if people insist in thinking gg's right, then why can't we admit that both translations are possible? Why don't we just put "Puella Magi (Magical Girl)" in the glossary entry or something? --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:gg's subs is not only occurence save the title. Shini-tan's scanlation of the manga also uses "Puella Magi" where "mahou shoujo" originally was. But you're right in the point that this discussion is quite meaningless. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 12:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Note that I'm not saying that "Puella Magi" is a more or less correct translation for "Mahou Shoujo" than "Magical Girl" as it appears in dialogue. I'm saying that in the absence of an official translation for the term in dialogue, nobody should be discarding "Puella Magi" as being '''''less correct''''' than "Magical Girl" -- given that it's actually supplied by the creators. Further, the current entry title is {{Nihongo|"Puella Magi"|魔法少女|Mahō shōjo|lit. Magical Girl}}, with the unqualified "Puella Magi" simply being a header used for purposes of neatness and organization in wikicode and layout. Per the above, argument that "Magical Girl" is more correct on the basis of a pun that only works in Japanese doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Argument for the exclusion of one of the terms from the glossary entry or the superiority of one term over the other doesn't make sense either. This is not a defense of gg's translation. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
the soul of the mahou shoujo becomes the witch while the body is left empty (makes sense since the soul is seperated from the body). the fact that the soul gem turns black during the transformation may be because the soul leaves gem<br />
<br />
Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that:<br />
"Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. (Unless you want to call it "Puella Magi ________ Magica" every time, and that's just ridiculous.) [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:That's an interesting twist, but it feels contradictory to the official Japanese title, 『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』 (Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magika) - "Madoka Magica" stays there in both version, and 『魔法少女』 (''mahou shoujo'' - magical girl) gets directly substituted by "Puella Magi". That's why "Puella Magi" is used interchangeably with "magical girl", even though the meaning is not the same.<br />As you're a Latin student, I'd like to ask one thing - how would you pluralize "Puella Magi"? If my grammar googling skills are correct, the correct Latin plural would be "Puellae Magorum", but that somehow feels ridiculous. I read many other versions - "Puella Magi", "Puella Magis", "Puellae Magis" and "Puella Magi", ie. using the singular form as plural. What do you think? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:48, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Coincidentally, should we try to stick with one form over the other in the episode summaries and character pages -- especially since we aren't sure of the plural form for "puella magi" right now? It's just a matter of searching and replacing, nothing difficult. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 18:57, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: Well, there are a lot of pages to edit. The plural form of "puella magi" should be "Puellae Magi", however (replace the nominative only). "magorum" is only viable if there is more than one mage ("Girls of the Mages" versus "Girls of the Mage"). [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 19:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Glossary&diff=9913Talk:Glossary2011-04-23T19:14:44Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl */</p>
<hr />
<div>requires a redesign, I don't know how to do it..<br />
::Like, a new template which includes the japanese info, the english intepretation, and a thumbnail? --[[User:Sayaka|Sayaka]] 05:54, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:::exactly [[User:Commie|Commie]] 05:56, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
If anyone is a coding wizard, please redesign the template at [[Template:Card_2]] so that it looks nicer!<br />
:--[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 03:12, 28 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== japanese translations only? ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that the last sentence of "Soul gem" is not translated from the glossary on the webpage. Should we separate such things out, or is it fine to mix? [[User:Oatmeal|Oatmeal]] 10:46, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
:I noticed it too, but I left the sentence since it explains a former unknown side of soul gems. Perhaps we could divide the official definition and further notes, e.g.<br />
:''Official Text''<br />Notes<br />
:--[[User:Anon-kun|Anon-kun]] 11:15, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
::I think we better put non-official info outside the template (see below), so we can add miscellaneous informations this way too, e.g. barrier's appearance, familiar's role when they're not fighting (in Inukare interview), grief seed appearance and such. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:00, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
=== Purposed page style ===<br />
<div style="border: 1px solid #ddd; padding: 5px 10px; background: #fff;"><br />
<h3>Barrier</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Barrier|結界|Kekkai}}<br />
|description = An otherworld used by [[Witch]]es to conceal themselves. Should a normal human wander in by accident, it is impossible for them to escape.<br />
|image = File:Witch ep2 entering.jpg<br />
|image_desc = Madoka and friends entering [[Gertrud|Gertrud's]] barrier.<br />
}}<br />
Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Sed molestie augue sit amet leo consequat posuere. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis.<br />
<br />
<h3>Familiar</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Familiar|使い魔|Tsukaima}}<br />
|description = Lesser monsters divided out of the essence of a [[Witch]]. Though normally assigned the task of maintaining and defending their parent-witch's [[barrier]], it seems that they can eventually gain independence and stray to form their own barriers. Further growing, they take on the form of their parent.<br />
|image = File:Ulla_screen.png<br />
|image_desc = [[Ulla]], [[Suleika]]'s familiar in his own [[barrier]].<br />
}}<br />
Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis. In condimentum facilisis porta. Sed nec diam eu diam mattis viverra. Nulla fringilla, orci ac euismod semper, magna diam porttitor mauris, quis sollicitudin sapien justo in libero. Vestibulum mollis mauris enim. Morbi euismod magna.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Familiar vs Minion==<br />
What's the wiki-wide guideline on usage of familiar vs minion? A quick search shows that we use the two words interchangeably. Should we just stick with familiar, since it's in the glossary? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 07:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Up till now I don't think there has been any guideline. Since the "official" term is familiar (使い魔) and not minion (手下), it would be relevant to stick with "familiar". The problem if we want to revert the existing pages is to skim through all the pages and change it (plus sometimes, "minion" is used to avoid repetition so we can't really use an automated solution either) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
Let me make my reasoning a bit more clear: The important part of Kyubey's words in episode 8 is "In this country," In other words, the characters are speaking normally: plain, everyday Japanese, which, by extension, would be translated into plain, everyday English subtitles. If we were really supposed to be hearing the more exotic "puella magi" whenever we heard the words "mahō shōjo":<br />
*Kyubey wouldn't have emphasized this in the first place, and it would have been kept vague.<br />
*We would have heard "puella magi" in Engrish (Ratin?), as with Soul Gem and Grief Seed, anyway.<br />
I always preferred magical girl, myself, but I'd admit it was a bit of a toss-up—until now. —[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 01:04, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:Eh. It's not like "magical girl" isn't already in the entry. What it's listed under is largely a matter of aesthetics. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 01:07, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
::Addendum: There is an argument to be made for the simultaneous correctness of multiple 'possible' interpretations. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:::The title's one thing (Japanese to Latin by the creator's choice), but then there's the actual term used in the dialogue (Japanese to English). I don't think the characters themselves would could be saying either/both at this point.<br />
:::—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Another theory - "Puella Magi" represents the term as coined originally, since Kyubey obviously isn't Japanese :D It may be the term in Kyubey's original language. Your reasoning does make sense in a way, but firstly, "Puella Magi" is in the "official" romanized title, and secondly - well, it's all over there in the wiki. Editing every entry to change "Puella Magi" into "magical girl" would be too much of a burden :D --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 02:24, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:If puella magi was the original term, I think it would only strengthen my case here, since both terms would exist side-by-side in-universe (expanding on the Ratin bullet point above).<br />
:I went into the difference with the title above. The title was what actually what kept it either/or for me, but I think this line gets rid of that ambiguity rather handily. I agree that changing it everywhere would be a royal pain, but, well, it wouldn't have to happen overnight or anything. Another thing for the [[Wishlist|"To Do" pile]], I guess.<br />
:—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Let me put it more directly: <br />
::*The Mahou Shoujo -> Majo Pun does not work in English, given that the term "Magical Girl" does not have anything to do with the term "Witch." <br />
::*Per the above, "Mahou Shoujo" being correct in Japanese does not make "Magical Girl" a proper parallel term / equivalent in English; it doesn't have the same lingual characteristics that make the pun succeed in Japanese. If the term for "Witch" in English were not "Witch," but something like "Magical Woman," I would not be saying this. <br />
::*The only official translation for "Mahou Shoujo" in Roman alphabetization is "Puella Magi." Irregardless of whether or not this is proper Latin, it's official.<br />
::*The term "Mahou Shoujo" is intended for consumption by a Japanese audience. No actual officially approved translation of the term '''as it appears in dialogue''' presently exists, and no translation fans provide can be officially correct. <br />
::I really don't understand why you're being so insistent on an unofficial translation like "Magical Girl" being "more" correct than something supplied by the creators. If you must, add this thing as a speculah. It's bad form to make out a pet theory as something resembling an official translation or canon by editing the title of the Glossary term. Further, how exactly does this one line by Kyuubey get rid of the ambiguity? Regardless of how you cut it, we don't know what precisely the creators' intended translation is -- only what they intended for the Japanese. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
when you take the first and the last kanji of mahou shoujo you get majo. it´s better to leave it at this<br />
魔(法少)女<br />
<br />
Not that argument again... How many times has it been discussed in the threads up till now? Nobody uses Puella Magi in the actual show, the only occurrences being the title (which is the title of the franchise, just like the "(...) Lyrical" in Nanoha's titles) and gg being gg. Anyway, if people insist in thinking gg's right, then why can't we admit that both translations are possible? Why don't we just put "Puella Magi (Magical Girl)" in the glossary entry or something? --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:gg's subs is not only occurence save the title. Shini-tan's scanlation of the manga also uses "Puella Magi" where "mahou shoujo" originally was. But you're right in the point that this discussion is quite meaningless. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 12:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Note that I'm not saying that "Puella Magi" is a more or less correct translation for "Mahou Shoujo" than "Magical Girl" as it appears in dialogue. I'm saying that in the absence of an official translation for the term in dialogue, nobody should be discarding "Puella Magi" as being '''''less correct''''' than "Magical Girl" -- given that it's actually supplied by the creators. Further, the current entry title is {{Nihongo|"Puella Magi"|魔法少女|Mahō shōjo|lit. Magical Girl}}, with the unqualified "Puella Magi" simply being a header used for purposes of neatness and organization in wikicode and layout. Per the above, argument that "Magical Girl" is more correct on the basis of a pun that only works in Japanese doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Argument for the exclusion of one of the terms from the glossary entry or the superiority of one term over the other doesn't make sense either. This is not a defense of gg's translation. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
the soul of the mahou shoujo becomes the witch while the body is left empty (makes sense since the soul is seperated from the body). the fact that the soul gem turns black during the transformation may be because the soul leaves gem<br />
<br />
Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that:<br />
"Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. (Unless you want to call it "Puella Magi ________ Magica" every time, and that's just ridiculous.) [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:That's an interesting twist, but it feels contradictory to the official Japanese title, 『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』 (Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magika) - "Madoka Magica" stays there in both version, and 『魔法少女』 (''mahou shoujo'' - magical girl) gets directly substituted by "Puella Magi". That's why "Puella Magi" is used interchangeably with "magical girl", even though the meaning is not the same.<br />As you're a Latin student, I'd like to ask one thing - how would you pluralize "Puella Magi"? If my grammar googling skills are correct, the correct Latin plural would be "Puellae Magorum", but that somehow feels ridiculous. I read many other versions - "Puella Magi", "Puella Magis", "Puellae Magis" and "Puella Magi", ie. using the singular form as plural. What do you think? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:48, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Coincidentally, should we try to stick with one form over the other in the episode summaries and character pages -- especially since we aren't sure of the plural form for "puella magi" right now? It's just a matter of searching and replacing, nothing difficult. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 18:57, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: Well, there are a lot of pages to edit. The plural form of "puella magi" should be "Puellae Magi", however (replace the nominative only). "magorum" is only viable if there is more than one mage "Girls of the Mages" versus "Girls of the Mage". [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 19:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Glossary&diff=9912Talk:Glossary2011-04-23T19:11:56Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl */</p>
<hr />
<div>requires a redesign, I don't know how to do it..<br />
::Like, a new template which includes the japanese info, the english intepretation, and a thumbnail? --[[User:Sayaka|Sayaka]] 05:54, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:::exactly [[User:Commie|Commie]] 05:56, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
If anyone is a coding wizard, please redesign the template at [[Template:Card_2]] so that it looks nicer!<br />
:--[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 03:12, 28 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== japanese translations only? ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that the last sentence of "Soul gem" is not translated from the glossary on the webpage. Should we separate such things out, or is it fine to mix? [[User:Oatmeal|Oatmeal]] 10:46, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
:I noticed it too, but I left the sentence since it explains a former unknown side of soul gems. Perhaps we could divide the official definition and further notes, e.g.<br />
:''Official Text''<br />Notes<br />
:--[[User:Anon-kun|Anon-kun]] 11:15, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
::I think we better put non-official info outside the template (see below), so we can add miscellaneous informations this way too, e.g. barrier's appearance, familiar's role when they're not fighting (in Inukare interview), grief seed appearance and such. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:00, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
=== Purposed page style ===<br />
<div style="border: 1px solid #ddd; padding: 5px 10px; background: #fff;"><br />
<h3>Barrier</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Barrier|結界|Kekkai}}<br />
|description = An otherworld used by [[Witch]]es to conceal themselves. Should a normal human wander in by accident, it is impossible for them to escape.<br />
|image = File:Witch ep2 entering.jpg<br />
|image_desc = Madoka and friends entering [[Gertrud|Gertrud's]] barrier.<br />
}}<br />
Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Sed molestie augue sit amet leo consequat posuere. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis.<br />
<br />
<h3>Familiar</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Familiar|使い魔|Tsukaima}}<br />
|description = Lesser monsters divided out of the essence of a [[Witch]]. Though normally assigned the task of maintaining and defending their parent-witch's [[barrier]], it seems that they can eventually gain independence and stray to form their own barriers. Further growing, they take on the form of their parent.<br />
|image = File:Ulla_screen.png<br />
|image_desc = [[Ulla]], [[Suleika]]'s familiar in his own [[barrier]].<br />
}}<br />
Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis. In condimentum facilisis porta. Sed nec diam eu diam mattis viverra. Nulla fringilla, orci ac euismod semper, magna diam porttitor mauris, quis sollicitudin sapien justo in libero. Vestibulum mollis mauris enim. Morbi euismod magna.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Familiar vs Minion==<br />
What's the wiki-wide guideline on usage of familiar vs minion? A quick search shows that we use the two words interchangeably. Should we just stick with familiar, since it's in the glossary? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 07:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Up till now I don't think there has been any guideline. Since the "official" term is familiar (使い魔) and not minion (手下), it would be relevant to stick with "familiar". The problem if we want to revert the existing pages is to skim through all the pages and change it (plus sometimes, "minion" is used to avoid repetition so we can't really use an automated solution either) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
Let me make my reasoning a bit more clear: The important part of Kyubey's words in episode 8 is "In this country," In other words, the characters are speaking normally: plain, everyday Japanese, which, by extension, would be translated into plain, everyday English subtitles. If we were really supposed to be hearing the more exotic "puella magi" whenever we heard the words "mahō shōjo":<br />
*Kyubey wouldn't have emphasized this in the first place, and it would have been kept vague.<br />
*We would have heard "puella magi" in Engrish (Ratin?), as with Soul Gem and Grief Seed, anyway.<br />
I always preferred magical girl, myself, but I'd admit it was a bit of a toss-up—until now. —[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 01:04, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:Eh. It's not like "magical girl" isn't already in the entry. What it's listed under is largely a matter of aesthetics. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 01:07, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
::Addendum: There is an argument to be made for the simultaneous correctness of multiple 'possible' interpretations. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:::The title's one thing (Japanese to Latin by the creator's choice), but then there's the actual term used in the dialogue (Japanese to English). I don't think the characters themselves would could be saying either/both at this point.<br />
:::—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Another theory - "Puella Magi" represents the term as coined originally, since Kyubey obviously isn't Japanese :D It may be the term in Kyubey's original language. Your reasoning does make sense in a way, but firstly, "Puella Magi" is in the "official" romanized title, and secondly - well, it's all over there in the wiki. Editing every entry to change "Puella Magi" into "magical girl" would be too much of a burden :D --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 02:24, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:If puella magi was the original term, I think it would only strengthen my case here, since both terms would exist side-by-side in-universe (expanding on the Ratin bullet point above).<br />
:I went into the difference with the title above. The title was what actually what kept it either/or for me, but I think this line gets rid of that ambiguity rather handily. I agree that changing it everywhere would be a royal pain, but, well, it wouldn't have to happen overnight or anything. Another thing for the [[Wishlist|"To Do" pile]], I guess.<br />
:—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Let me put it more directly: <br />
::*The Mahou Shoujo -> Majo Pun does not work in English, given that the term "Magical Girl" does not have anything to do with the term "Witch." <br />
::*Per the above, "Mahou Shoujo" being correct in Japanese does not make "Magical Girl" a proper parallel term / equivalent in English; it doesn't have the same lingual characteristics that make the pun succeed in Japanese. If the term for "Witch" in English were not "Witch," but something like "Magical Woman," I would not be saying this. <br />
::*The only official translation for "Mahou Shoujo" in Roman alphabetization is "Puella Magi." Irregardless of whether or not this is proper Latin, it's official.<br />
::*The term "Mahou Shoujo" is intended for consumption by a Japanese audience. No actual officially approved translation of the term '''as it appears in dialogue''' presently exists, and no translation fans provide can be officially correct. <br />
::I really don't understand why you're being so insistent on an unofficial translation like "Magical Girl" being "more" correct than something supplied by the creators. If you must, add this thing as a speculah. It's bad form to make out a pet theory as something resembling an official translation or canon by editing the title of the Glossary term. Further, how exactly does this one line by Kyuubey get rid of the ambiguity? Regardless of how you cut it, we don't know what precisely the creators' intended translation is -- only what they intended for the Japanese. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
when you take the first and the last kanji of mahou shoujo you get majo. it´s better to leave it at this<br />
魔(法少)女<br />
<br />
Not that argument again... How many times has it been discussed in the threads up till now? Nobody uses Puella Magi in the actual show, the only occurrences being the title (which is the title of the franchise, just like the "(...) Lyrical" in Nanoha's titles) and gg being gg. Anyway, if people insist in thinking gg's right, then why can't we admit that both translations are possible? Why don't we just put "Puella Magi (Magical Girl)" in the glossary entry or something? --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:gg's subs is not only occurence save the title. Shini-tan's scanlation of the manga also uses "Puella Magi" where "mahou shoujo" originally was. But you're right in the point that this discussion is quite meaningless. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 12:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Note that I'm not saying that "Puella Magi" is a more or less correct translation for "Mahou Shoujo" than "Magical Girl" as it appears in dialogue. I'm saying that in the absence of an official translation for the term in dialogue, nobody should be discarding "Puella Magi" as being '''''less correct''''' than "Magical Girl" -- given that it's actually supplied by the creators. Further, the current entry title is {{Nihongo|"Puella Magi"|魔法少女|Mahō shōjo|lit. Magical Girl}}, with the unqualified "Puella Magi" simply being a header used for purposes of neatness and organization in wikicode and layout. Per the above, argument that "Magical Girl" is more correct on the basis of a pun that only works in Japanese doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Argument for the exclusion of one of the terms from the glossary entry or the superiority of one term over the other doesn't make sense either. This is not a defense of gg's translation. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
the soul of the mahou shoujo becomes the witch while the body is left empty (makes sense since the soul is seperated from the body). the fact that the soul gem turns black during the transformation may be because the soul leaves gem<br />
<br />
Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that:<br />
"Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. (Unless you want to call it "Puella Magi ________ Magica" every time, and that's just ridiculous.) [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:That's an interesting twist, but it feels contradictory to the official Japanese title, 『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』 (Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magika) - "Madoka Magica" stays there in both version, and 『魔法少女』 (''mahou shoujo'' - magical girl) gets directly substituted by "Puella Magi". That's why "Puella Magi" is used interchangeably with "magical girl", even though the meaning is not the same.<br />As you're a Latin student, I'd like to ask one thing - how would you pluralize "Puella Magi"? If my grammar googling skills are correct, the correct Latin plural would be "Puellae Magorum", but that somehow feels ridiculous. I read many other versions - "Puella Magi", "Puella Magis", "Puellae Magis" and "Puella Magi", ie. using the singular form as plural. What do you think? --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 18:48, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:: Coincidentally, should we try to stick with one form over the other in the episode summaries and character pages -- especially since we aren't sure of the plural form for "puella magi" right now? It's just a matter of searching and replacing, nothing difficult. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 18:57, 23 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::: Well, there are a lot of pages to edit. The plural form of "puella magi" should be "Puellae Magi", however (replace the nominative only). [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 19:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Glossary&diff=9902Talk:Glossary2011-04-23T18:34:04Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl */</p>
<hr />
<div>requires a redesign, I don't know how to do it..<br />
::Like, a new template which includes the japanese info, the english intepretation, and a thumbnail? --[[User:Sayaka|Sayaka]] 05:54, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:::exactly [[User:Commie|Commie]] 05:56, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
If anyone is a coding wizard, please redesign the template at [[Template:Card_2]] so that it looks nicer!<br />
:--[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 03:12, 28 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== japanese translations only? ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that the last sentence of "Soul gem" is not translated from the glossary on the webpage. Should we separate such things out, or is it fine to mix? [[User:Oatmeal|Oatmeal]] 10:46, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
:I noticed it too, but I left the sentence since it explains a former unknown side of soul gems. Perhaps we could divide the official definition and further notes, e.g.<br />
:''Official Text''<br />Notes<br />
:--[[User:Anon-kun|Anon-kun]] 11:15, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
::I think we better put non-official info outside the template (see below), so we can add miscellaneous informations this way too, e.g. barrier's appearance, familiar's role when they're not fighting (in Inukare interview), grief seed appearance and such. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:00, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
=== Purposed page style ===<br />
<div style="border: 1px solid #ddd; padding: 5px 10px; background: #fff;"><br />
<h3>Barrier</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Barrier|結界|Kekkai}}<br />
|description = An otherworld used by [[Witch]]es to conceal themselves. Should a normal human wander in by accident, it is impossible for them to escape.<br />
|image = File:Witch ep2 entering.jpg<br />
|image_desc = Madoka and friends entering [[Gertrud|Gertrud's]] barrier.<br />
}}<br />
Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Sed molestie augue sit amet leo consequat posuere. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis.<br />
<br />
<h3>Familiar</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Familiar|使い魔|Tsukaima}}<br />
|description = Lesser monsters divided out of the essence of a [[Witch]]. Though normally assigned the task of maintaining and defending their parent-witch's [[barrier]], it seems that they can eventually gain independence and stray to form their own barriers. Further growing, they take on the form of their parent.<br />
|image = File:Ulla_screen.png<br />
|image_desc = [[Ulla]], [[Suleika]]'s familiar in his own [[barrier]].<br />
}}<br />
Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis. In condimentum facilisis porta. Sed nec diam eu diam mattis viverra. Nulla fringilla, orci ac euismod semper, magna diam porttitor mauris, quis sollicitudin sapien justo in libero. Vestibulum mollis mauris enim. Morbi euismod magna.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Familiar vs Minion==<br />
What's the wiki-wide guideline on usage of familiar vs minion? A quick search shows that we use the two words interchangeably. Should we just stick with familiar, since it's in the glossary? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 07:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Up till now I don't think there has been any guideline. Since the "official" term is familiar (使い魔) and not minion (手下), it would be relevant to stick with "familiar". The problem if we want to revert the existing pages is to skim through all the pages and change it (plus sometimes, "minion" is used to avoid repetition so we can't really use an automated solution either) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
Let me make my reasoning a bit more clear: The important part of Kyubey's words in episode 8 is "In this country," In other words, the characters are speaking normally: plain, everyday Japanese, which, by extension, would be translated into plain, everyday English subtitles. If we were really supposed to be hearing the more exotic "puella magi" whenever we heard the words "mahō shōjo":<br />
*Kyubey wouldn't have emphasized this in the first place, and it would have been kept vague.<br />
*We would have heard "puella magi" in Engrish (Ratin?), as with Soul Gem and Grief Seed, anyway.<br />
I always preferred magical girl, myself, but I'd admit it was a bit of a toss-up—until now. —[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 01:04, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:Eh. It's not like "magical girl" isn't already in the entry. What it's listed under is largely a matter of aesthetics. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 01:07, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
::Addendum: There is an argument to be made for the simultaneous correctness of multiple 'possible' interpretations. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:::The title's one thing (Japanese to Latin by the creator's choice), but then there's the actual term used in the dialogue (Japanese to English). I don't think the characters themselves would could be saying either/both at this point.<br />
:::—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Another theory - "Puella Magi" represents the term as coined originally, since Kyubey obviously isn't Japanese :D It may be the term in Kyubey's original language. Your reasoning does make sense in a way, but firstly, "Puella Magi" is in the "official" romanized title, and secondly - well, it's all over there in the wiki. Editing every entry to change "Puella Magi" into "magical girl" would be too much of a burden :D --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 02:24, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:If puella magi was the original term, I think it would only strengthen my case here, since both terms would exist side-by-side in-universe (expanding on the Ratin bullet point above).<br />
:I went into the difference with the title above. The title was what actually what kept it either/or for me, but I think this line gets rid of that ambiguity rather handily. I agree that changing it everywhere would be a royal pain, but, well, it wouldn't have to happen overnight or anything. Another thing for the [[Wishlist|"To Do" pile]], I guess.<br />
:—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Let me put it more directly: <br />
::*The Mahou Shoujo -> Majo Pun does not work in English, given that the term "Magical Girl" does not have anything to do with the term "Witch." <br />
::*Per the above, "Mahou Shoujo" being correct in Japanese does not make "Magical Girl" a proper parallel term / equivalent in English; it doesn't have the same lingual characteristics that make the pun succeed in Japanese. If the term for "Witch" in English were not "Witch," but something like "Magical Woman," I would not be saying this. <br />
::*The only official translation for "Mahou Shoujo" in Roman alphabetization is "Puella Magi." Irregardless of whether or not this is proper Latin, it's official.<br />
::*The term "Mahou Shoujo" is intended for consumption by a Japanese audience. No actual officially approved translation of the term '''as it appears in dialogue''' presently exists, and no translation fans provide can be officially correct. <br />
::I really don't understand why you're being so insistent on an unofficial translation like "Magical Girl" being "more" correct than something supplied by the creators. If you must, add this thing as a speculah. It's bad form to make out a pet theory as something resembling an official translation or canon by editing the title of the Glossary term. Further, how exactly does this one line by Kyuubey get rid of the ambiguity? Regardless of how you cut it, we don't know what precisely the creators' intended translation is -- only what they intended for the Japanese. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
when you take the first and the last kanji of mahou shoujo you get majo. it´s better to leave it at this<br />
魔(法少)女<br />
<br />
Not that argument again... How many times has it been discussed in the threads up till now? Nobody uses Puella Magi in the actual show, the only occurrences being the title (which is the title of the franchise, just like the "(...) Lyrical" in Nanoha's titles) and gg being gg. Anyway, if people insist in thinking gg's right, then why can't we admit that both translations are possible? Why don't we just put "Puella Magi (Magical Girl)" in the glossary entry or something? --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:gg's subs is not only occurence save the title. Shini-tan's scanlation of the manga also uses "Puella Magi" where "mahou shoujo" originally was. But you're right in the point that this discussion is quite meaningless. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 12:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Note that I'm not saying that "Puella Magi" is a more or less correct translation for "Mahou Shoujo" than "Magical Girl" as it appears in dialogue. I'm saying that in the absence of an official translation for the term in dialogue, nobody should be discarding "Puella Magi" as being '''''less correct''''' than "Magical Girl" -- given that it's actually supplied by the creators. Further, the current entry title is {{Nihongo|"Puella Magi"|魔法少女|Mahō shōjo|lit. Magical Girl}}, with the unqualified "Puella Magi" simply being a header used for purposes of neatness and organization in wikicode and layout. Per the above, argument that "Magical Girl" is more correct on the basis of a pun that only works in Japanese doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Argument for the exclusion of one of the terms from the glossary entry or the superiority of one term over the other doesn't make sense either. This is not a defense of gg's translation. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
the soul of the mahou shoujo becomes the witch while the body is left empty (makes sense since the soul is seperated from the body). the fact that the soul gem turns black during the transformation may be because the soul leaves gem<br />
<br />
Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that:<br />
"Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. (Unless you want to call it "Puella Magi ________ Magica" every time, and that's just ridiculous.) [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Glossary&diff=9901Talk:Glossary2011-04-23T18:27:02Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl */</p>
<hr />
<div>requires a redesign, I don't know how to do it..<br />
::Like, a new template which includes the japanese info, the english intepretation, and a thumbnail? --[[User:Sayaka|Sayaka]] 05:54, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
:::exactly [[User:Commie|Commie]] 05:56, 20 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
If anyone is a coding wizard, please redesign the template at [[Template:Card_2]] so that it looks nicer!<br />
:--[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 03:12, 28 January 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
== japanese translations only? ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that the last sentence of "Soul gem" is not translated from the glossary on the webpage. Should we separate such things out, or is it fine to mix? [[User:Oatmeal|Oatmeal]] 10:46, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
:I noticed it too, but I left the sentence since it explains a former unknown side of soul gems. Perhaps we could divide the official definition and further notes, e.g.<br />
:''Official Text''<br />Notes<br />
:--[[User:Anon-kun|Anon-kun]] 11:15, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
::I think we better put non-official info outside the template (see below), so we can add miscellaneous informations this way too, e.g. barrier's appearance, familiar's role when they're not fighting (in Inukare interview), grief seed appearance and such. --[[User:0x99|0x99]] 12:00, 16 February 2011 (CST)<br />
<br />
=== Purposed page style ===<br />
<div style="border: 1px solid #ddd; padding: 5px 10px; background: #fff;"><br />
<h3>Barrier</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Barrier|結界|Kekkai}}<br />
|description = An otherworld used by [[Witch]]es to conceal themselves. Should a normal human wander in by accident, it is impossible for them to escape.<br />
|image = File:Witch ep2 entering.jpg<br />
|image_desc = Madoka and friends entering [[Gertrud|Gertrud's]] barrier.<br />
}}<br />
Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Sed molestie augue sit amet leo consequat posuere. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis.<br />
<br />
<h3>Familiar</h3><br />
{{Glossary<br />
|term = {{Nihongo|Familiar|使い魔|Tsukaima}}<br />
|description = Lesser monsters divided out of the essence of a [[Witch]]. Though normally assigned the task of maintaining and defending their parent-witch's [[barrier]], it seems that they can eventually gain independence and stray to form their own barriers. Further growing, they take on the form of their parent.<br />
|image = File:Ulla_screen.png<br />
|image_desc = [[Ulla]], [[Suleika]]'s familiar in his own [[barrier]].<br />
}}<br />
Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis. In condimentum facilisis porta. Sed nec diam eu diam mattis viverra. Nulla fringilla, orci ac euismod semper, magna diam porttitor mauris, quis sollicitudin sapien justo in libero. Vestibulum mollis mauris enim. Morbi euismod magna.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Familiar vs Minion==<br />
What's the wiki-wide guideline on usage of familiar vs minion? A quick search shows that we use the two words interchangeably. Should we just stick with familiar, since it's in the glossary? [[User:Prima|Prima]] 07:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:Up till now I don't think there has been any guideline. Since the "official" term is familiar (使い魔) and not minion (手下), it would be relevant to stick with "familiar". The problem if we want to revert the existing pages is to skim through all the pages and change it (plus sometimes, "minion" is used to avoid repetition so we can't really use an automated solution either) --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl ==<br />
<br />
Let me make my reasoning a bit more clear: The important part of Kyubey's words in episode 8 is "In this country," In other words, the characters are speaking normally: plain, everyday Japanese, which, by extension, would be translated into plain, everyday English subtitles. If we were really supposed to be hearing the more exotic "puella magi" whenever we heard the words "mahō shōjo":<br />
*Kyubey wouldn't have emphasized this in the first place, and it would have been kept vague.<br />
*We would have heard "puella magi" in Engrish (Ratin?), as with Soul Gem and Grief Seed, anyway.<br />
I always preferred magical girl, myself, but I'd admit it was a bit of a toss-up—until now. —[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 01:04, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:Eh. It's not like "magical girl" isn't already in the entry. What it's listed under is largely a matter of aesthetics. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 01:07, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
::Addendum: There is an argument to be made for the simultaneous correctness of multiple 'possible' interpretations. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:::The title's one thing (Japanese to Latin by the creator's choice), but then there's the actual term used in the dialogue (Japanese to English). I don't think the characters themselves would could be saying either/both at this point.<br />
:::—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Another theory - "Puella Magi" represents the term as coined originally, since Kyubey obviously isn't Japanese :D It may be the term in Kyubey's original language. Your reasoning does make sense in a way, but firstly, "Puella Magi" is in the "official" romanized title, and secondly - well, it's all over there in the wiki. Editing every entry to change "Puella Magi" into "magical girl" would be too much of a burden :D --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 02:24, 25 February 2011 (UCT)<br />
:If puella magi was the original term, I think it would only strengthen my case here, since both terms would exist side-by-side in-universe (expanding on the Ratin bullet point above).<br />
:I went into the difference with the title above. The title was what actually what kept it either/or for me, but I think this line gets rid of that ambiguity rather handily. I agree that changing it everywhere would be a royal pain, but, well, it wouldn't have to happen overnight or anything. Another thing for the [[Wishlist|"To Do" pile]], I guess.<br />
:—[[User:MomoiroKakarichou|MomoiroKakarichou]] 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Let me put it more directly: <br />
::*The Mahou Shoujo -> Majo Pun does not work in English, given that the term "Magical Girl" does not have anything to do with the term "Witch." <br />
::*Per the above, "Mahou Shoujo" being correct in Japanese does not make "Magical Girl" a proper parallel term / equivalent in English; it doesn't have the same lingual characteristics that make the pun succeed in Japanese. If the term for "Witch" in English were not "Witch," but something like "Magical Woman," I would not be saying this. <br />
::*The only official translation for "Mahou Shoujo" in Roman alphabetization is "Puella Magi." Irregardless of whether or not this is proper Latin, it's official.<br />
::*The term "Mahou Shoujo" is intended for consumption by a Japanese audience. No actual officially approved translation of the term '''as it appears in dialogue''' presently exists, and no translation fans provide can be officially correct. <br />
::I really don't understand why you're being so insistent on an unofficial translation like "Magical Girl" being "more" correct than something supplied by the creators. If you must, add this thing as a speculah. It's bad form to make out a pet theory as something resembling an official translation or canon by editing the title of the Glossary term. Further, how exactly does this one line by Kyuubey get rid of the ambiguity? Regardless of how you cut it, we don't know what precisely the creators' intended translation is -- only what they intended for the Japanese. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 04:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
when you take the first and the last kanji of mahou shoujo you get majo. it´s better to leave it at this<br />
魔(法少)女<br />
<br />
Not that argument again... How many times has it been discussed in the threads up till now? Nobody uses Puella Magi in the actual show, the only occurrences being the title (which is the title of the franchise, just like the "(...) Lyrical" in Nanoha's titles) and gg being gg. Anyway, if people insist in thinking gg's right, then why can't we admit that both translations are possible? Why don't we just put "Puella Magi (Magical Girl)" in the glossary entry or something? --[[User:Homerun-chan|Homerun-chan]] 09:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
:gg's subs is not only occurence save the title. Shini-tan's scanlation of the manga also uses "Puella Magi" where "mahou shoujo" originally was. But you're right in the point that this discussion is quite meaningless. --[[User:KFYatek|KFYatek]] 12:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Note that I'm not saying that "Puella Magi" is a more or less correct translation for "Mahou Shoujo" than "Magical Girl" as it appears in dialogue. I'm saying that in the absence of an official translation for the term in dialogue, nobody should be discarding "Puella Magi" as being '''''less correct''''' than "Magical Girl" -- given that it's actually supplied by the creators. Further, the current entry title is {{Nihongo|"Puella Magi"|魔法少女|Mahō shōjo|lit. Magical Girl}}, with the unqualified "Puella Magi" simply being a header used for purposes of neatness and organization in wikicode and layout. Per the above, argument that "Magical Girl" is more correct on the basis of a pun that only works in Japanese doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Argument for the exclusion of one of the terms from the glossary entry or the superiority of one term over the other doesn't make sense either. This is not a defense of gg's translation. --[[User:Fallacies|Fallacies]] 18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
the soul of the mahou shoujo becomes the witch while the body is left empty (makes sense since the soul is seperated from the body). the fact that the soul gem turns black during the transformation may be because the soul leaves gem<br />
<br />
Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that:<br />
"Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Homura_Akemi&diff=9496Homura Akemi2011-04-22T19:48:25Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Speculations */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Homura Akemi<br />
|image=[[File:Homura Chara Sheet.jpg|300px]]<br />
|jname=暁美 ほむら (Akemi Homura) <br />
|seiyuu=[http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=305 Chiwa Saitou]<br />
|age=13-14 (estimated)<br />
|weapon=Shield (storage and timejump device), various mundane weapons like grenades, pipe bombs, pistols, machine guns<br />
}}<br />
Homura is first seen by Madoka in a dream of her fighting a monster in a desolate landscape of skyscrapers. The day after the dream, Homura has transferred to Madoka's school where she gives her ominous warnings.<br />
<br />
==Official Info==<br />
A smart, graceful, athletically-talented girl. Cool if not chilly, her personality even can even be seen in her posture. Her primary ability is to stop time, all her other abilities and attacks seem to come from non-magical items, such as firearms and bombs. Her time manipulation device can also allow her to travel back in time, act as a shield, and seems to act as a limitless storage facility.<br />
<br />
She seems to be a magical girl, but there are a lot of mysteries surrounding the way she acts. Her fighting style is also unidentified.<br />
* Ms. Aoki’s Design Check: A blunt girl. I tried to let this shine through in her design. Her distinguishing point is her silky long hair.<br />
* Magical girl outfit: Homura was designed with her personality and combat style in mind. I found her fascinating right away. (Aoki)<br />
* The sharp lines of her upper back and jacket evoke her personality. Overall rather monochromatic. Her black tights have a diamond pattern.<br />
* School uniform: She wears black tights in uniform too, leaving her overall feel just like in her magical girl outfit. She gives off the air of a silent beauty.<br />
* Regardless of her reasons, Homura'a priority is preventing Madoka from becoming a Mahou Shoujo. Since that is not understandable by other Mahou Shoujos or Madoka, she decided to act alone.<br />
* Homura is a magical girl from another timeline, as revealed by Kyubey. She knows that Kyubey is behind a sinister plot, and it mostly involves Madoka turning into a magical girl.<br />
* Homura's special ability is revealed to be some kind of time-travel, which explains why she knows so much to the point of knowing exactly when and where certain things will happen. This also may be why she can move at blistering speed.<br />
* Her [[Homura_Residence|house]] has a wall display of documents relating to witches.<br />
* In episode 9, it was revealed that Homura can stop time. However, anyone she touches while the ability is under effect will not be stopped.<br />
**According to Official Scans, as translated by '''symbv''' (exact source unknown), here is what '''Gen Urobuchi said on more of Homura's power''': "The weapon that looks like Homura's shield is actually a sand timer. When the flow of the sand is blocked, time is stopped. And when there is no sand on the upper part of the sand timer and then the timer is reverted, one month's worth of time is turned back. But before that stage is reached, only time stopping is possible. This means the special power of Homura is the ability to manipulate one month's time's worth of sand in the sand timer. As for the time passed and then turned back, since it was not the focus in this work I did not think it through very thoroughly. I think you can say that the world split up and became parallel worlds there."<br />
* Homura's backstory was revealed in episode 10. She was a transfer student who was recovering from heart disease. Probably due to her lack of confidence, she was targeted by familiars. However, Madoka (who was a Puella Magi at this time) and Mami save her. During Walpurgis Night, Madoka and Mami die. Homura then makes the wish to re-do her meeting with Madoka to prevent her fate.<br />
* Along with stopping time, Homura can also reverse time to before her meeting with Madoka.<br />
* Homura, while initially ditzy and insecure, has become very independent and strong during her time traveling. Her cold nature is from her determination to save Madoka after having failed in her mission to prevent Madoka from becoming a magical girl several times. <br />
* A previous Madoka was the one to task Homura to prevent Madoka from becoming a Puella Magi.<br />
* In the current timeline, Homura fails to stop Walpurgis Night. However, since Homura somewhat confessed to Madoka to the time traveling, Madoka creates a new wish to make sure that Homura's efforts weren't in vain.<br />
* Homura is the only one that remembers Madoka in the newest timeline. Also, she gains a bow and magical wings. Whether her time-stopping ability remains is unknown.<br />
* In the ending, Homura faces off with many demons in a desert. However, her wings become distorted like the barriers of witches. What happens to her is unknown.<br />
<br />
==Observations==<br />
*She wants to stop [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]] from making a contract with [[Kyuubey]]<br />
*She has much knowledge about [[Mitakihara Middle School]].<br />
*Is annoyed when Madoka uses her last name or honorifics instead of the more intimate "Homura".<br />
*She was openly pursuing [[Kyuubey]] until Kyuubey made contact with Madoka.<br />
*She appears obsessed with Madoka's happiness and/or survival. <br />
*As of [[Episode 10]], it is shown that Homura used to be a very shy and clumsy girl before she became a Puella Magi. Homura met Madoka and Mami when they were saving Homura from a witch, thus the three became friends. At the very end of that timeline, Madoka is killed and Homura asks Kyuubey to turn her into a Puella Magi with her wish being "to meet Madoka again, but this time as the one protecting her, not as the one being protected".<br />
*She appears to live by herself; her [[Homura Residence|residence]] only has her name on the nameplate, much like [[Mami]]'s. In episode 10, when she wakes up in the hospital, no-one is there with her, and she seems to have been filling out the school transfer forms on her own.<br />
*She seem to have met [[Kyubey]] before, as she refers to him as "Incubator" in [[Episode 8]] shortly after he was shot down by her. She also reveals to "know his true motives".<br />
*Her cold attitude was formed through re-living the same timeline multiple times, with the ending always being that Madoka either turned into a witch or died. When that happens, Homura turns back time to the first day of her arrival again.<br />
* When [[Mami]] asks Homura if she has any other power besides bending time in [[Episode 10]], Homura steals guns, swords etc. from a locker. She hides these weapons inside her shield.<br />
<br />
==Speculations==<br />
[[File:Homura_Move2.jpg|right|thumb|Homura is able to move extremely fast in comparison with water drops.]]<br />
[[File:Homuragrenade.jpg|right|thumb|Homura's grenade in Episode 8 looks like an M61 grenade, used during the Vietnam War.]]<br />
[[File:Homugun.jpg|right|thumb|Homura's pistol in Episode 8 looks like an M9.]]<br />
<br />
*Homura's wish was to protect Madoka, and since wishes always come true, it should make her immune from death and becoming a witch before saving Madoka. This makes her doomed to be locked in this cycle. In one timeline she was almost successful, but Madoka sacrificed herself for the sake of Homura and caused another restart.<br />
**Homura's wish may be interpreted simply as "I want to redo my meeting with Madoka" with the lines about wanting to protect her rather than being protected simply justification for her wish. If this is the case, then the wish has already been fulfilled and there isn't anything to make her immune from death or becoming a witch. Whether or not she has any control over her jumping back in time is unknown. The first few times appear to be automatic, but by the 4th jump back in time she appears to have control over when she jumps, as she spends time talking to Kyuubey despite clearly having failed to protect Madoka before walking away and starting again. It may simply have been the first few times were instinctual.<br />
** Urobuchi explained that her shield is a sand timer and that it can only be inverted after one month has passed; thus, in Timeline 4, she was presumably waiting for the right moment to invert the timer.<br />
*In the first two episodes, Homura appeared to be the antagonist. It was later explained that she only wanted to prevent Madoka becoming a magical girl. She saved Madoka and Sayaka multiple times and may become an ally and/or mentor of Madoka in the future.<br />
*She might also wish to prevent Madoka becoming a magical girl because of the risk that she could turn into an overwhelmingly powerful witch.<br />
*In [[Episode 5]], Homura saves Sayaka from Kyouko by suddenly manifesting as Kyouko's attack is about to land, somehow moving Sayaka out of the path of the attack. The ability seems to involve massive acceleration rather than teleportation(this because of her power being to turn back/stop time and thus being able to move quickly from one point to another by stopping time temporarily), as she is able to act in a [[:File:Homura_Move1.jpg|split second]]. As there are hints that a Puella Magi's powers may relate to her wish (e.g. Sayaka's regeneration), this may be a clue as to Homura's true motives. As of [[Episode 8]] it has been confirmed that Homura's ability has something to do with time.<br />
*Per the image in the gallery below, the pipe layout on the corridor wall is completely different after Homura uses her 'teleportation' ability. Assuming this is not a production error, it has been suggested that the ability actually involves magically reconstituting the entire corridor while moving the people in it around. For more information, please refer to the entry on this phenomenon in the [[Speculah:Magical_Powers#Spatial_Reconstruction_.28unconfirmed.29|Magical Powers speculah]].<br />
**In the 10th episode we can see Homura with her glasses and duvets, she looks like Hanekawa Tsubasa in Bakemonogatari, which is possessed by a cat during the golden week (Tsubasa Cat arc).<br />
*Homura may be a homunculus created by Madoka.<ref>See [http://gall.dcinside.com/anigallers/259050 DCinside] and [http://www.angelhalowiki.com/r1/wiki.php/%EB%A7%88%EB%B2%95%EC%86%8C%EB%85%80%20%EB%A7%88%EB%8F%84%EC%B9%B4%E2%98%86%EB%A7%88%EA%B8%B0%EC%B9%B4/%EB%96%A1%EB%B0%A5%EB%AA%A8%EC%9D%8C#s-7.4 Angelhalo Wiki](Documents are in Korean)</ref><br />
**The last line of [[Magia]] reads 命を作るのは願い(What creates life is a wish).<br />
**'Akemi(アケミ)' and 'alchemy(アルケミー)' reads similar in Japanese.<br />
**'Homu' in 'Homura' is also the first four letters in the word 'homunculus'.<br />
**Dr. Faust in Goethe's Faust created a homunculus, which has superhuman perception to see through Faust's dream. Mephistopheles could be subtituted by Kyuubey, and Dr. Faust by Madoka. See [[Speculah:Madoka Magica and Faust]] on Shaft's usage of Faust.<br />
*Homura might be in possession of the soul gems of magical girls from an alternate timeline, such as the alternate Madoka's. See also [[Speculah:Homura Identity Swap Theory]].<br />
*One of the speculations as for why Homura does not tell Madoka upfront of the consequences of becoming a magical girl, is because Madoka might just become one in order to save Homura or Mami. This could also be the reason why she's trying to keep a distance between her and Madoka.<br />
*Fans at the beginning expressed shock at Homura's strange choice in weaponry, all Puella Magi are suppose to have magical weapons but not Homura. This is partially correct, Homura's weapon is actually her magical shield which allows her to stop time as well as travel back in time, the shield can also act as a repository for her variety of arsenals and weaponry.<br />
**Homura's magical shield can also be used as just that, as during the battle against Walpurgis Night she blocks one of its attacks using it. While hunting Kyuubey in episode 1 and 10, she also appears to be firing small blue magical shots that are distinctly different from when she uses a gun. These shots may be much weaker than simply using a gun, which would explain why she doesn't use them against witches.<br />
*Homura may actually be Faust, as Faust in the play tries all his might to save Gretchen (Madoka) from dying but in the end she perishes anyways as Mephistopheles (QB) tries to tempt her to form a contract with him.<br />
** There's also the fact that in the Goethe version, Faust would only lose his soul if he ever had a moment of perfect happiness that made him wish he could stop time at that moment forever. Homura's power, of course, is to stop time. As such, it's entirely possible that the Homura and Faust parallels will be taken to its logical conclusion: She will have a moment of perfect happiness, she will stop time at that moment, and then she will die or become a witch. However, it should be mentioned that Faust manages to escape Mephistopheles and enter heaven because he found his moment of happiness in helping others, and not in anything Mephistopheles gave him. On the other hand, there is a [[Kriemhild Gretchen|witch that tries to create heaven on Earth.]]<br />
*Homura may be Walpurgis Night. As Homura's powers involved time manipulation it could very well be that we are seeing a witch version of Homura warped back into the past ironically becoming the very event that has shaped her reason for making a contract. Walpurgis Night has been depicted with clock-like gears underneath her dress. Episode 11 also depicts Walpurgis Night having a primary color of purple, which is also Homura's color. While the end of the series shows Homura losing her shield, after the credits we are shown Homura during an unknown time period, though having Madoka's ribbons, battling. Before Homura starts the fight, she hears Madoka offer words of encouragement as Homura gives up a final smile, which may signal Homura being consumed with despair. The final shot shows the main heroines, overlapped with multiple silhouettes of the heroines, which could allude to the familiars summoned by Walpurgis Night in episode 11, before showing Homura's soul gem.<br />
** The alternative interpretation is that the characters spawned from Walpurgis Night are not her familiars, but rather that Walpurgis Night is a set of witches, which are detaching from the main body during that time.<br />
***Sorry, speculation based off raw, after watching translated version, I would like to offer an alternative interpretation of the ending. since madoka negated the rules of the universe to erase witches before they are born, the after credit scene could suggest that it was Homura's final battle as Mami and Kyoko were not present. Madoka hinted that she would see Homura later, but Homura would just need to wait a little longer. It could be that Madoka was offering final words of encouragement before Homura would be consumed with grief and Madoka would come into erase her.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
*Homura is frequently referred to as "Homerun-chan" amongst Western fans, due to the similarity of the two names in Japanese, however she is frequently referred as "Homuhomu" (ほむほむ) within Japanese community. Homuhomu likely originated from the [[Runes:Episode_3|runes in Episode 3]], one of which translates to "Homuhomu".<br />
*The first character for Akemi (暁) means "daybreak", while the second one (美) means beauty.<br />
*When her full name is written vertically in hiragana (あけみほむら) and with left half covered in certain angle, it could be read as カナメまどか which is Kaname written in katakana and Madoka written in hiragana. <br />
*Her last name can also be used as a first name.<br />
*Her first name is written in hiragana, which has no special meaning. However, when written in kanji, it can mean:<br />
**inflammation, blaze (炎 or 焔)<br />
**heart on fire (心火)<br />
**mass of flame (炎叢)<br />
**village protector (保村)<br /><br />
*Some folks in 2ch nicknamed [[Homura Residence|Homura's Residence]] "Homuhōmu," (ほむホーム) since Homu is a nickname for Homura, and Hōmu is "home" rendered in the Japanese syllabary. It should be noted that "homu" is more often used for dog houses and similar structures, with the English word "home" expressed using "uchi" (うち, which refers to one's own house or household), "ie" (いえ, which can refer to a physical house or a family lineage), or the honorific "otaku" (お宅, which refers to someone else's house or household).<br />
*The Homura of previous timelines is, due to her personality and actions, often referred to as "Moemura" amongst Western fans.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Homura Akemi Anime Design.jpg<br />
File:Homura Akemi Original Design.jpg|Original character design by Aoki Ume<br />
File:Why_Homerun-chan.jpg|How Homura became Homerun-chan<br />
File:Homerun-chan2.png|2ch's reaction<br />
File:Ep5 runes mura.png|Homura's ring and fingernail<br />
File:1296786066859 2.jpg|Spatial Reconstitution Theory (空間再構成)<br />
File:Homura-magazine.jpg|The cover of Megami magazine featuring Homura with a black cat.<br />
File:Hunter-x-hunter-1641920 2.jpg|Comparison of unnamed Nen ability in Hunter x Hunter and Homura's 'teleportation.' <br />
File:Madoka 10 02.jpg|Homura in Episode 10 from Timeline 1<br />
File:Homura weapons.jpg|Homura's arsenal of weapons: Home made bombs, hand grenades (M61), Flash Bombs, M9/Beretta M92F, Desert Eagle, Remington 870 (though the picture denotes it as a Benelli M1), FN Minimi M249, and lots of ammo<br />
File:Homura soul gem.png|Homura's Soul Gem<br />
File:145.jpg|A manga illustration of Homura with her shield<br />
File:Homura-scan.jpg|<br />
File:Official homumado art 2.jpg|Official Homura and Madoka art<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*{{pixiv_tag|暁美ほむら}}<br />
*{{booru_tag|danbooru|akemi_homura}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Homura_Akemi&diff=9494Homura Akemi2011-04-22T19:44:32Z<p>Aster Selene: Her Soul Gem is missing, and Homura seems shocked only after Timeline 2, so this is doubtful.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Homura Akemi<br />
|image=[[File:Homura Chara Sheet.jpg|300px]]<br />
|jname=暁美 ほむら (Akemi Homura) <br />
|seiyuu=[http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=305 Chiwa Saitou]<br />
|age=13-14 (estimated)<br />
|weapon=Shield (storage and timejump device), various mundane weapons like grenades, pipe bombs, pistols, machine guns<br />
}}<br />
Homura is first seen by Madoka in a dream of her fighting a monster in a desolate landscape of skyscrapers. The day after the dream, Homura has transferred to Madoka's school where she gives her ominous warnings.<br />
<br />
==Official Info==<br />
A smart, graceful, athletically-talented girl. Cool if not chilly, her personality even can even be seen in her posture. Her primary ability is to stop time, all her other abilities and attacks seem to come from non-magical items, such as firearms and bombs. Her time manipulation device can also allow her to travel back in time, act as a shield, and seems to act as a limitless storage facility.<br />
<br />
She seems to be a magical girl, but there are a lot of mysteries surrounding the way she acts. Her fighting style is also unidentified.<br />
* Ms. Aoki’s Design Check: A blunt girl. I tried to let this shine through in her design. Her distinguishing point is her silky long hair.<br />
* Magical girl outfit: Homura was designed with her personality and combat style in mind. I found her fascinating right away. (Aoki)<br />
* The sharp lines of her upper back and jacket evoke her personality. Overall rather monochromatic. Her black tights have a diamond pattern.<br />
* School uniform: She wears black tights in uniform too, leaving her overall feel just like in her magical girl outfit. She gives off the air of a silent beauty.<br />
* Regardless of her reasons, Homura'a priority is preventing Madoka from becoming a Mahou Shoujo. Since that is not understandable by other Mahou Shoujos or Madoka, she decided to act alone.<br />
* Homura is a magical girl from another timeline, as revealed by Kyubey. She knows that Kyubey is behind a sinister plot, and it mostly involves Madoka turning into a magical girl.<br />
* Homura's special ability is revealed to be some kind of time-travel, which explains why she knows so much to the point of knowing exactly when and where certain things will happen. This also may be why she can move at blistering speed.<br />
* Her [[Homura_Residence|house]] has a wall display of documents relating to witches.<br />
* In episode 9, it was revealed that Homura can stop time. However, anyone she touches while the ability is under effect will not be stopped.<br />
**According to Official Scans, as translated by '''symbv''' (exact source unknown), here is what '''Gen Urobuchi said on more of Homura's power''': "The weapon that looks like Homura's shield is actually a sand timer. When the flow of the sand is blocked, time is stopped. And when there is no sand on the upper part of the sand timer and then the timer is reverted, one month's worth of time is turned back. But before that stage is reached, only time stopping is possible. This means the special power of Homura is the ability to manipulate one month's time's worth of sand in the sand timer. As for the time passed and then turned back, since it was not the focus in this work I did not think it through very thoroughly. I think you can say that the world split up and became parallel worlds there."<br />
* Homura's backstory was revealed in episode 10. She was a transfer student who was recovering from heart disease. Probably due to her lack of confidence, she was targeted by familiars. However, Madoka (who was a Puella Magi at this time) and Mami save her. During Walpurgis Night, Madoka and Mami die. Homura then makes the wish to re-do her meeting with Madoka to prevent her fate.<br />
* Along with stopping time, Homura can also reverse time to before her meeting with Madoka.<br />
* Homura, while initially ditzy and insecure, has become very independent and strong during her time traveling. Her cold nature is from her determination to save Madoka after having failed in her mission to prevent Madoka from becoming a magical girl several times. <br />
* A previous Madoka was the one to task Homura to prevent Madoka from becoming a Puella Magi.<br />
* In the current timeline, Homura fails to stop Walpurgis Night. However, since Homura somewhat confessed to Madoka to the time traveling, Madoka creates a new wish to make sure that Homura's efforts weren't in vain.<br />
* Homura is the only one that remembers Madoka in the newest timeline. Also, she gains a bow and magical wings. Whether her time-stopping ability remains is unknown.<br />
* In the ending, Homura faces off with many demons in a desert. However, her wings become distorted like the barriers of witches. What happens to her is unknown.<br />
<br />
==Observations==<br />
*She wants to stop [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]] from making a contract with [[Kyuubey]]<br />
*She has much knowledge about [[Mitakihara Middle School]].<br />
*Is annoyed when Madoka uses her last name or honorifics instead of the more intimate "Homura".<br />
*She was openly pursuing [[Kyuubey]] until Kyuubey made contact with Madoka.<br />
*She appears obsessed with Madoka's happiness and/or survival. <br />
*As of [[Episode 10]], it is shown that Homura used to be a very shy and clumsy girl before she became a Puella Magi. Homura met Madoka and Mami when they were saving Homura from a witch, thus the three became friends. At the very end of that timeline, Madoka is killed and Homura asks Kyuubey to turn her into a Puella Magi with her wish being "to meet Madoka again, but this time as the one protecting her, not as the one being protected".<br />
*She appears to live by herself; her [[Homura Residence|residence]] only has her name on the nameplate, much like [[Mami]]'s. In episode 10, when she wakes up in the hospital, no-one is there with her, and she seems to have been filling out the school transfer forms on her own.<br />
*She seem to have met [[Kyubey]] before, as she refers to him as "Incubator" in [[Episode 8]] shortly after he was shot down by her. She also reveals to "know his true motives".<br />
*Her cold attitude was formed through re-living the same timeline multiple times, with the ending always being that Madoka either turned into a witch or died. When that happens, Homura turns back time to the first day of her arrival again.<br />
* When [[Mami]] asks Homura if she has any other power besides bending time in [[Episode 10]], Homura steals guns, swords etc. from a locker. She hides these weapons inside her shield.<br />
<br />
==Speculations==<br />
[[File:Homura_Move2.jpg|right|thumb|Homura is able to move extremely fast in comparison with water drops.]]<br />
[[File:Homuragrenade.jpg|right|thumb|Homura's grenade in Episode 8 looks like an M61 grenade, used during the Vietnam War.]]<br />
[[File:Homugun.jpg|right|thumb|Homura's pistol in Episode 8 looks like an M9.]]<br />
<br />
*Homura's wish was to protect Madoka, and since wishes always come true, it should make her immune from death and becoming a witch before saving Madoka. This makes her doomed to be locked in this cycle. In one timeline she was almost successful, but Madoka sacrificed herself for the sake of Homura and caused another restart.<br />
**Homura's wish may be interpreted simply as "I want to redo my meeting with Madoka" with the lines about wanting to protect her rather than being protected simply justification for her wish. If this is the case, then the wish has already been fulfilled and there isn't anything to make her immune from death or becoming a witch. Whether or not she has any control over her jumping back in time is unknown. The first few times appear to be automatic, but by the 4th jump back in time she appears to have control over when she jumps, as she spends time talking to Kyuubey despite clearly having failed to protect Madoka before walking away and starting again. It may simply have been the first few times were instinctual.<br />
*In the first two episodes, Homura appeared to be the antagonist. It was later explained that she only wanted to prevent Madoka becoming a magical girl. She saved Madoka and Sayaka multiple times and may become an ally and/or mentor of Madoka in the future.<br />
*She might also wish to prevent Madoka becoming a magical girl because of the risk that she could turn into an overwhelmingly powerful witch.<br />
*In [[Episode 5]], Homura saves Sayaka from Kyouko by suddenly manifesting as Kyouko's attack is about to land, somehow moving Sayaka out of the path of the attack. The ability seems to involve massive acceleration rather than teleportation(this because of her power being to turn back/stop time and thus being able to move quickly from one point to another by stopping time temporarily), as she is able to act in a [[:File:Homura_Move1.jpg|split second]]. As there are hints that a Puella Magi's powers may relate to her wish (e.g. Sayaka's regeneration), this may be a clue as to Homura's true motives. As of [[Episode 8]] it has been confirmed that Homura's ability has something to do with time.<br />
*Per the image in the gallery below, the pipe layout on the corridor wall is completely different after Homura uses her 'teleportation' ability. Assuming this is not a production error, it has been suggested that the ability actually involves magically reconstituting the entire corridor while moving the people in it around. For more information, please refer to the entry on this phenomenon in the [[Speculah:Magical_Powers#Spatial_Reconstruction_.28unconfirmed.29|Magical Powers speculah]].<br />
**In the 10th episode we can see Homura with her glasses and duvets, she looks like Hanekawa Tsubasa in Bakemonogatari, which is possessed by a cat during the golden week (Tsubasa Cat arc).<br />
*Homura may be a homunculus created by Madoka.<ref>See [http://gall.dcinside.com/anigallers/259050 DCinside] and [http://www.angelhalowiki.com/r1/wiki.php/%EB%A7%88%EB%B2%95%EC%86%8C%EB%85%80%20%EB%A7%88%EB%8F%84%EC%B9%B4%E2%98%86%EB%A7%88%EA%B8%B0%EC%B9%B4/%EB%96%A1%EB%B0%A5%EB%AA%A8%EC%9D%8C#s-7.4 Angelhalo Wiki](Documents are in Korean)</ref><br />
**The last line of [[Magia]] reads 命を作るのは願い(What creates life is a wish).<br />
**'Akemi(アケミ)' and 'alchemy(アルケミー)' reads similar in Japanese.<br />
**'Homu' in 'Homura' is also the first four letters in the word 'homunculus'.<br />
**Dr. Faust in Goethe's Faust created a homunculus, which has superhuman perception to see through Faust's dream. Mephistopheles could be subtituted by Kyuubey, and Dr. Faust by Madoka. See [[Speculah:Madoka Magica and Faust]] on Shaft's usage of Faust.<br />
*Homura might be in possession of the soul gems of magical girls from an alternate timeline, such as the alternate Madoka's. See also [[Speculah:Homura Identity Swap Theory]].<br />
*One of the speculations as for why Homura does not tell Madoka upfront of the consequences of becoming a magical girl, is because Madoka might just become one in order to save Homura or Mami. This could also be the reason why she's trying to keep a distance between her and Madoka.<br />
*Fans at the beginning expressed shock at Homura's strange choice in weaponry, all Puella Magi are suppose to have magical weapons but not Homura. This is partially correct, Homura's weapon is actually her magical shield which allows her to stop time as well as travel back in time, the shield can also act as a repository for her variety of arsenals and weaponry.<br />
**Homura's magical shield can also be used as just that, as during the battle against Walpurgis Night she blocks one of its attacks using it. While hunting Kyuubey in episode 1 and 10, she also appears to be firing small blue magical shots that are distinctly different from when she uses a gun. These shots may be much weaker than simply using a gun, which would explain why she doesn't use them against witches.<br />
*Homura may actually be Faust, as Faust in the play tries all his might to save Gretchen (Madoka) from dying but in the end she perishes anyways as Mephistopheles (QB) tries to tempt her to form a contract with him.<br />
** There's also the fact that in the Goethe version, Faust would only lose his soul if he ever had a moment of perfect happiness that made him wish he could stop time at that moment forever. Homura's power, of course, is to stop time. As such, it's entirely possible that the Homura and Faust parallels will be taken to its logical conclusion: She will have a moment of perfect happiness, she will stop time at that moment, and then she will die or become a witch. However, it should be mentioned that Faust manages to escape Mephistopheles and enter heaven because he found his moment of happiness in helping others, and not in anything Mephistopheles gave him. On the other hand, there is a [[Kriemhild Gretchen|witch that tries to create heaven on Earth.]]<br />
*Homura may be Walpurgis Night. As Homura's powers involved time manipulation it could very well be that we are seeing a witch version of Homura warped back into the past ironically becoming the very event that has shaped her reason for making a contract. Walpurgis Night has been depicted with clock-like gears underneath her dress. Episode 11 also depicts Walpurgis Night having a primary color of purple, which is also Homura's color. While the end of the series shows Homura losing her shield, after the credits we are shown Homura during an unknown time period, though having Madoka's ribbons, battling. Before Homura starts the fight, she hears Madoka offer words of encouragement as Homura gives up a final smile, which may signal Homura being consumed with despair. The final shot shows the main heroines, overlapped with multiple silhouettes of the heroines, which could allude to the familiars summoned by Walpurgis Night in episode 11, before showing Homura's soul gem.<br />
** The alternative interpretation is that the characters spawned from Walpurgis Night are not her familiars, but rather that Walpurgis Night is a set of witches, which are detaching from the main body during that time.<br />
***Sorry, speculation based off raw, after watching translated version, I would like to offer an alternative interpretation of the ending. since madoka negated the rules of the universe to erase witches before they are born, the after credit scene could suggest that it was Homura's final battle as Mami and Kyoko were not present. Madoka hinted that she would see Homura later, but Homura would just need to wait a little longer. It could be that Madoka was offering final words of encouragement before Homura would be consumed with grief and Madoka would come into erase her.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
*Homura is frequently referred to as "Homerun-chan" amongst Western fans, due to the similarity of the two names in Japanese, however she is frequently referred as "Homuhomu" (ほむほむ) within Japanese community. Homuhomu likely originated from the [[Runes:Episode_3|runes in Episode 3]], one of which translates to "Homuhomu".<br />
*The first character for Akemi (暁) means "daybreak", while the second one (美) means beauty.<br />
*When her full name is written vertically in hiragana (あけみほむら) and with left half covered in certain angle, it could be read as カナメまどか which is Kaname written in katakana and Madoka written in hiragana. <br />
*Her last name can also be used as a first name.<br />
*Her first name is written in hiragana, which has no special meaning. However, when written in kanji, it can mean:<br />
**inflammation, blaze (炎 or 焔)<br />
**heart on fire (心火)<br />
**mass of flame (炎叢)<br />
**village protector (保村)<br /><br />
*Some folks in 2ch nicknamed [[Homura Residence|Homura's Residence]] "Homuhōmu," (ほむホーム) since Homu is a nickname for Homura, and Hōmu is "home" rendered in the Japanese syllabary. It should be noted that "homu" is more often used for dog houses and similar structures, with the English word "home" expressed using "uchi" (うち, which refers to one's own house or household), "ie" (いえ, which can refer to a physical house or a family lineage), or the honorific "otaku" (お宅, which refers to someone else's house or household).<br />
*The Homura of previous timelines is, due to her personality and actions, often referred to as "Moemura" amongst Western fans.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Homura Akemi Anime Design.jpg<br />
File:Homura Akemi Original Design.jpg|Original character design by Aoki Ume<br />
File:Why_Homerun-chan.jpg|How Homura became Homerun-chan<br />
File:Homerun-chan2.png|2ch's reaction<br />
File:Ep5 runes mura.png|Homura's ring and fingernail<br />
File:1296786066859 2.jpg|Spatial Reconstitution Theory (空間再構成)<br />
File:Homura-magazine.jpg|The cover of Megami magazine featuring Homura with a black cat.<br />
File:Hunter-x-hunter-1641920 2.jpg|Comparison of unnamed Nen ability in Hunter x Hunter and Homura's 'teleportation.' <br />
File:Madoka 10 02.jpg|Homura in Episode 10 from Timeline 1<br />
File:Homura weapons.jpg|Homura's arsenal of weapons: Home made bombs, hand grenades (M61), Flash Bombs, M9/Beretta M92F, Desert Eagle, Remington 870 (though the picture denotes it as a Benelli M1), FN Minimi M249, and lots of ammo<br />
File:Homura soul gem.png|Homura's Soul Gem<br />
File:145.jpg|A manga illustration of Homura with her shield<br />
File:Homura-scan.jpg|<br />
File:Official homumado art 2.jpg|Official Homura and Madoka art<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*{{pixiv_tag|暁美ほむら}}<br />
*{{booru_tag|danbooru|akemi_homura}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Homura_Akemi&diff=9492Homura Akemi2011-04-22T19:42:28Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Official Info */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Homura Akemi<br />
|image=[[File:Homura Chara Sheet.jpg|300px]]<br />
|jname=暁美 ほむら (Akemi Homura) <br />
|seiyuu=[http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=305 Chiwa Saitou]<br />
|age=13-14 (estimated)<br />
|weapon=Shield (storage and timejump device), various mundane weapons like grenades, pipe bombs, pistols, machine guns<br />
}}<br />
Homura is first seen by Madoka in a dream of her fighting a monster in a desolate landscape of skyscrapers. The day after the dream, Homura has transferred to Madoka's school where she gives her ominous warnings.<br />
<br />
==Official Info==<br />
A smart, graceful, athletically-talented girl. Cool if not chilly, her personality even can even be seen in her posture. Her primary ability is to stop time, all her other abilities and attacks seem to come from non-magical items, such as firearms and bombs. Her time manipulation device can also allow her to travel back in time, act as a shield, and seems to act as a limitless storage facility.<br />
<br />
She seems to be a magical girl, but there are a lot of mysteries surrounding the way she acts. Her fighting style is also unidentified.<br />
* Ms. Aoki’s Design Check: A blunt girl. I tried to let this shine through in her design. Her distinguishing point is her silky long hair.<br />
* Magical girl outfit: Homura was designed with her personality and combat style in mind. I found her fascinating right away. (Aoki)<br />
* The sharp lines of her upper back and jacket evoke her personality. Overall rather monochromatic. Her black tights have a diamond pattern.<br />
* School uniform: She wears black tights in uniform too, leaving her overall feel just like in her magical girl outfit. She gives off the air of a silent beauty.<br />
* Regardless of her reasons, Homura'a priority is preventing Madoka from becoming a Mahou Shoujo. Since that is not understandable by other Mahou Shoujos or Madoka, she decided to act alone.<br />
* Homura is a magical girl from another timeline, as revealed by Kyubey. She knows that Kyubey is behind a sinister plot, and it mostly involves Madoka turning into a magical girl.<br />
* Homura's special ability is revealed to be some kind of time-travel, which explains why she knows so much to the point of knowing exactly when and where certain things will happen. This also may be why she can move at blistering speed.<br />
* Her [[Homura_Residence|house]] has a wall display of documents relating to witches.<br />
* In episode 9, it was revealed that Homura can stop time. However, anyone she touches while the ability is under effect will not be stopped.<br />
**According to Official Scans, as translated by '''symbv''' (exact source unknown), here is what '''Gen Urobuchi said on more of Homura's power''': "The weapon that looks like Homura's shield is actually a sand timer. When the flow of the sand is blocked, time is stopped. And when there is no sand on the upper part of the sand timer and then the timer is reverted, one month's worth of time is turned back. But before that stage is reached, only time stopping is possible. This means the special power of Homura is the ability to manipulate one month's time's worth of sand in the sand timer. As for the time passed and then turned back, since it was not the focus in this work I did not think it through very thoroughly. I think you can say that the world split up and became parallel worlds there."<br />
* Homura's backstory was revealed in episode 10. She was a transfer student who was recovering from heart disease. Probably due to her lack of confidence, she was targeted by familiars. However, Madoka (who was a Puella Magi at this time) and Mami save her. During Walpurgis Night, Madoka and Mami die. Homura then makes the wish to re-do her meeting with Madoka to prevent her fate.<br />
* Along with stopping time, Homura can also reverse time to before her meeting with Madoka.<br />
* Homura, while initially ditzy and insecure, has become very independent and strong during her time traveling. Her cold nature is from her determination to save Madoka after having failed in her mission to prevent Madoka from becoming a magical girl several times. <br />
* A previous Madoka was the one to task Homura to prevent Madoka from becoming a Puella Magi.<br />
* In the current timeline, Homura fails to stop Walpurgis Night. However, since Homura somewhat confessed to Madoka to the time traveling, Madoka creates a new wish to make sure that Homura's efforts weren't in vain.<br />
* Homura is the only one that remembers Madoka in the newest timeline. Also, she gains a bow and magical wings. Whether her time-stopping ability remains is unknown.<br />
* In the ending, Homura faces off with many demons in a desert. However, her wings become distorted like the barriers of witches. What happens to her is unknown.<br />
<br />
==Observations==<br />
*She wants to stop [[Madoka Kaname|Madoka]] from making a contract with [[Kyuubey]]<br />
*She has much knowledge about [[Mitakihara Middle School]].<br />
*Is annoyed when Madoka uses her last name or honorifics instead of the more intimate "Homura".<br />
*She was openly pursuing [[Kyuubey]] until Kyuubey made contact with Madoka.<br />
*She appears obsessed with Madoka's happiness and/or survival. <br />
*As of [[Episode 10]], it is shown that Homura used to be a very shy and clumsy girl before she became a Puella Magi. Homura met Madoka and Mami when they were saving Homura from a witch, thus the three became friends. At the very end of that timeline, Madoka is transformed into a witch(it is believed) and Homura asks Kyuubey to turn her into a Puella Magi with her wish being "to meet Madoka again, but this time as the one protecting her, not as the one being protected".<br />
*She appears to live by herself; her [[Homura Residence|residence]] only has her name on the nameplate, much like [[Mami]]'s. In episode 10, when she wakes up in the hospital, no-one is there with her, and she seems to have been filling out the school transfer forms on her own.<br />
*She seem to have met [[Kyubey]] before, as she refers to him as "Incubator" in [[Episode 8]] shortly after he was shot down by her. She also reveals to "know his true motives".<br />
*Her cold attitude was formed through re-living the same timeline multiple times, with the ending always being that Madoka either turned into a witch or died. When that happens, Homura turns back time to the first day of her arrival again.<br />
* When [[Mami]] asks Homura if she has any other power besides bending time in [[Episode 10]], Homura steals guns, swords etc. from a locker. She hides these weapons inside her shield.<br />
<br />
==Speculations==<br />
[[File:Homura_Move2.jpg|right|thumb|Homura is able to move extremely fast in comparison with water drops.]]<br />
[[File:Homuragrenade.jpg|right|thumb|Homura's grenade in Episode 8 looks like an M61 grenade, used during the Vietnam War.]]<br />
[[File:Homugun.jpg|right|thumb|Homura's pistol in Episode 8 looks like an M9.]]<br />
<br />
*Homura's wish was to protect Madoka, and since wishes always come true, it should make her immune from death and becoming a witch before saving Madoka. This makes her doomed to be locked in this cycle. In one timeline she was almost successful, but Madoka sacrificed herself for the sake of Homura and caused another restart.<br />
**Homura's wish may be interpreted simply as "I want to redo my meeting with Madoka" with the lines about wanting to protect her rather than being protected simply justification for her wish. If this is the case, then the wish has already been fulfilled and there isn't anything to make her immune from death or becoming a witch. Whether or not she has any control over her jumping back in time is unknown. The first few times appear to be automatic, but by the 4th jump back in time she appears to have control over when she jumps, as she spends time talking to Kyuubey despite clearly having failed to protect Madoka before walking away and starting again. It may simply have been the first few times were instinctual.<br />
*In the first two episodes, Homura appeared to be the antagonist. It was later explained that she only wanted to prevent Madoka becoming a magical girl. She saved Madoka and Sayaka multiple times and may become an ally and/or mentor of Madoka in the future.<br />
*She might also wish to prevent Madoka becoming a magical girl because of the risk that she could turn into an overwhelmingly powerful witch.<br />
*In [[Episode 5]], Homura saves Sayaka from Kyouko by suddenly manifesting as Kyouko's attack is about to land, somehow moving Sayaka out of the path of the attack. The ability seems to involve massive acceleration rather than teleportation(this because of her power being to turn back/stop time and thus being able to move quickly from one point to another by stopping time temporarily), as she is able to act in a [[:File:Homura_Move1.jpg|split second]]. As there are hints that a Puella Magi's powers may relate to her wish (e.g. Sayaka's regeneration), this may be a clue as to Homura's true motives. As of [[Episode 8]] it has been confirmed that Homura's ability has something to do with time.<br />
*Per the image in the gallery below, the pipe layout on the corridor wall is completely different after Homura uses her 'teleportation' ability. Assuming this is not a production error, it has been suggested that the ability actually involves magically reconstituting the entire corridor while moving the people in it around. For more information, please refer to the entry on this phenomenon in the [[Speculah:Magical_Powers#Spatial_Reconstruction_.28unconfirmed.29|Magical Powers speculah]].<br />
**In the 10th episode we can see Homura with her glasses and duvets, she looks like Hanekawa Tsubasa in Bakemonogatari, which is possessed by a cat during the golden week (Tsubasa Cat arc).<br />
*Homura may be a homunculus created by Madoka.<ref>See [http://gall.dcinside.com/anigallers/259050 DCinside] and [http://www.angelhalowiki.com/r1/wiki.php/%EB%A7%88%EB%B2%95%EC%86%8C%EB%85%80%20%EB%A7%88%EB%8F%84%EC%B9%B4%E2%98%86%EB%A7%88%EA%B8%B0%EC%B9%B4/%EB%96%A1%EB%B0%A5%EB%AA%A8%EC%9D%8C#s-7.4 Angelhalo Wiki](Documents are in Korean)</ref><br />
**The last line of [[Magia]] reads 命を作るのは願い(What creates life is a wish).<br />
**'Akemi(アケミ)' and 'alchemy(アルケミー)' reads similar in Japanese.<br />
**'Homu' in 'Homura' is also the first four letters in the word 'homunculus'.<br />
**Dr. Faust in Goethe's Faust created a homunculus, which has superhuman perception to see through Faust's dream. Mephistopheles could be subtituted by Kyuubey, and Dr. Faust by Madoka. See [[Speculah:Madoka Magica and Faust]] on Shaft's usage of Faust.<br />
*Homura might be in possession of the soul gems of magical girls from an alternate timeline, such as the alternate Madoka's. See also [[Speculah:Homura Identity Swap Theory]].<br />
*One of the speculations as for why Homura does not tell Madoka upfront of the consequences of becoming a magical girl, is because Madoka might just become one in order to save Homura or Mami. This could also be the reason why she's trying to keep a distance between her and Madoka.<br />
*Fans at the beginning expressed shock at Homura's strange choice in weaponry, all Puella Magi are suppose to have magical weapons but not Homura. This is partially correct, Homura's weapon is actually her magical shield which allows her to stop time as well as travel back in time, the shield can also act as a repository for her variety of arsenals and weaponry.<br />
**Homura's magical shield can also be used as just that, as during the battle against Walpurgis Night she blocks one of its attacks using it. While hunting Kyuubey in episode 1 and 10, she also appears to be firing small blue magical shots that are distinctly different from when she uses a gun. These shots may be much weaker than simply using a gun, which would explain why she doesn't use them against witches.<br />
*Homura may actually be Faust, as Faust in the play tries all his might to save Gretchen (Madoka) from dying but in the end she perishes anyways as Mephistopheles (QB) tries to tempt her to form a contract with him.<br />
** There's also the fact that in the Goethe version, Faust would only lose his soul if he ever had a moment of perfect happiness that made him wish he could stop time at that moment forever. Homura's power, of course, is to stop time. As such, it's entirely possible that the Homura and Faust parallels will be taken to its logical conclusion: She will have a moment of perfect happiness, she will stop time at that moment, and then she will die or become a witch. However, it should be mentioned that Faust manages to escape Mephistopheles and enter heaven because he found his moment of happiness in helping others, and not in anything Mephistopheles gave him. On the other hand, there is a [[Kriemhild Gretchen|witch that tries to create heaven on Earth.]]<br />
*Homura may be Walpurgis Night. As Homura's powers involved time manipulation it could very well be that we are seeing a witch version of Homura warped back into the past ironically becoming the very event that has shaped her reason for making a contract. Walpurgis Night has been depicted with clock-like gears underneath her dress. Episode 11 also depicts Walpurgis Night having a primary color of purple, which is also Homura's color. While the end of the series shows Homura losing her shield, after the credits we are shown Homura during an unknown time period, though having Madoka's ribbons, battling. Before Homura starts the fight, she hears Madoka offer words of encouragement as Homura gives up a final smile, which may signal Homura being consumed with despair. The final shot shows the main heroines, overlapped with multiple silhouettes of the heroines, which could allude to the familiars summoned by Walpurgis Night in episode 11, before showing Homura's soul gem.<br />
** The alternative interpretation is that the characters spawned from Walpurgis Night are not her familiars, but rather that Walpurgis Night is a set of witches, which are detaching from the main body during that time.<br />
***Sorry, speculation based off raw, after watching translated version, I would like to offer an alternative interpretation of the ending. since madoka negated the rules of the universe to erase witches before they are born, the after credit scene could suggest that it was Homura's final battle as Mami and Kyoko were not present. Madoka hinted that she would see Homura later, but Homura would just need to wait a little longer. It could be that Madoka was offering final words of encouragement before Homura would be consumed with grief and Madoka would come into erase her.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
*Homura is frequently referred to as "Homerun-chan" amongst Western fans, due to the similarity of the two names in Japanese, however she is frequently referred as "Homuhomu" (ほむほむ) within Japanese community. Homuhomu likely originated from the [[Runes:Episode_3|runes in Episode 3]], one of which translates to "Homuhomu".<br />
*The first character for Akemi (暁) means "daybreak", while the second one (美) means beauty.<br />
*When her full name is written vertically in hiragana (あけみほむら) and with left half covered in certain angle, it could be read as カナメまどか which is Kaname written in katakana and Madoka written in hiragana. <br />
*Her last name can also be used as a first name.<br />
*Her first name is written in hiragana, which has no special meaning. However, when written in kanji, it can mean:<br />
**inflammation, blaze (炎 or 焔)<br />
**heart on fire (心火)<br />
**mass of flame (炎叢)<br />
**village protector (保村)<br /><br />
*Some folks in 2ch nicknamed [[Homura Residence|Homura's Residence]] "Homuhōmu," (ほむホーム) since Homu is a nickname for Homura, and Hōmu is "home" rendered in the Japanese syllabary. It should be noted that "homu" is more often used for dog houses and similar structures, with the English word "home" expressed using "uchi" (うち, which refers to one's own house or household), "ie" (いえ, which can refer to a physical house or a family lineage), or the honorific "otaku" (お宅, which refers to someone else's house or household).<br />
*The Homura of previous timelines is, due to her personality and actions, often referred to as "Moemura" amongst Western fans.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Homura Akemi Anime Design.jpg<br />
File:Homura Akemi Original Design.jpg|Original character design by Aoki Ume<br />
File:Why_Homerun-chan.jpg|How Homura became Homerun-chan<br />
File:Homerun-chan2.png|2ch's reaction<br />
File:Ep5 runes mura.png|Homura's ring and fingernail<br />
File:1296786066859 2.jpg|Spatial Reconstitution Theory (空間再構成)<br />
File:Homura-magazine.jpg|The cover of Megami magazine featuring Homura with a black cat.<br />
File:Hunter-x-hunter-1641920 2.jpg|Comparison of unnamed Nen ability in Hunter x Hunter and Homura's 'teleportation.' <br />
File:Madoka 10 02.jpg|Homura in Episode 10 from Timeline 1<br />
File:Homura weapons.jpg|Homura's arsenal of weapons: Home made bombs, hand grenades (M61), Flash Bombs, M9/Beretta M92F, Desert Eagle, Remington 870 (though the picture denotes it as a Benelli M1), FN Minimi M249, and lots of ammo<br />
File:Homura soul gem.png|Homura's Soul Gem<br />
File:145.jpg|A manga illustration of Homura with her shield<br />
File:Homura-scan.jpg|<br />
File:Official homumado art 2.jpg|Official Homura and Madoka art<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
{{reflist}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*{{pixiv_tag|暁美ほむら}}<br />
*{{booru_tag|danbooru|akemi_homura}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Kyubey&diff=9486Kyubey2011-04-22T19:28:53Z<p>Aster Selene: /* Trivia */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{spoilers}}<br />
{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Kyubey<br />
|image=[[File:Kyuubey Chara Sheet.jpg|300px]]<br />
|jname=キュゥべえ (Kyuubee) <br />
|seiyuu=[http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=641 Emiri Katou]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
'''Kyubey''' is a {{nihongo|"Messenger of Magic"|魔法の使者|mahou no shisha}} who grants the wishes of young girls, but in exchange contracts their services as {{nihongo|Puella Magi|魔法少女|mahou shoujo|lit. Magical Girls}}. Girls who form a contract with him are tasked to defeat [[Witch|Witches]] -- bizarre entities that feed upon the hopes and dreams of normal people. Kyubey features prominently as a character within the anime series of Madoka Magica.<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
*People still argue as to how to write his name. Is it Kyubey or Kyuubey?<br />
**His name is written in both Hiragana and Katakana as キュ''(kyu)''ゥ''(u)''べ''(be)''え''(e)'', so Kyuubee or Kyuubey would be most accurate as a romanization.<br />
**On the other hand, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re0TB956D5E&feature=related the fifth commercial] has his name romanized as "Kyubey", which resulted in controversy. However, the lack of the extra u is probably just a use of the modified Hepburn system, which never accounts for extended vowels.<br />
**[[Translated_Official_Documents#Kyubey_cuteness|Urobuchi Gen joked]] that the "Kyu" comes from the katakana of the English word ''Cute'' so it could also be Cubey.<br />
**[[Episode 8]] suggests that his name comes from 'Incubator', which would be romanized as 'in'''kyubee'''taa.' In the same episode, it is revealed that he has multiple replacements.<br />
***During Kyubey's dialogues in episode 9, he keeps saying "we", meaning that he isn't the only Incubator.<br />
**Some fans of 2ch have taken to assigning the kanji 「九兵衛」 (''Kyūbē'', lit. ''nine protector soldiers'' or ''nine warriors in defense'') to his name, speculating that like Doraemon (whose name can be written as 「銅鑼衛門」), Kyubey's naming might have been inspired by old Samurai dramas.<br />
**'QB' is short for 'Kyubey' in Niconico Douga. This name is also common on 2ch.<br />
*Kyubey claims that he turns girls into magical girls (and thus eventually into witches) to keep a surplus of usable energy in the universe. He explains that through entropy, energy is gradually lost and the energy formed by the emotions of magical girls restocks that energy.<br />
**It's a bit more complex than that. Entropy dictates that in a closed universe, producing energy always costs more than it produces. Common examples of this include the fact it takes dozens of years to grow a tree which will in turn grow apples, but that the total of apples that tree will produce in its lifetime will give less energy than it took to grow the tree itself. In this end this means that all energy is destined to eventually run out, even if it's at a pace our human minds can't conceive. Emotions however aren't bound by entropy; to Kyubey's species, humans are basically walking emotion dispensers and can produce hundreds to thousands of times more emotional energy in their lifetimes than it takes to give birth to them. Since they themselves don't have emotions, Kyubey's species has decided to use humans and to convert their emotions into energy they then, presumably, pump into the cosmos somewhere to give entropy the middle finger. Madoka's transformation into a witch is said to be able to produce so much energy that they "collect even more energy than their quota", meaning that her transformation has enough juice to save the entire universe.<br />
***Small quibble: technically, energy is never lost. It is only made unusable.<br />
***The quota statement was likely just that he got more energy from Earth than he was assigned to (or what was expected to be extracted). You'd require an infinite amount of energy to permanently stave off the heat death of the universe after all.<br />
***It is also possible that transforming a girl into a witch converts heat to energy, and that Kyubey's explanation was simplified.<br />
*In one of the alternate timelines in episode 10, Kyubey remarks that Madoka's witch may be capable of destroying the entire planet. However, he doesn't care as he already got his surplus of energy.<br />
*Kyubey appears to be capable of teleportation. In episode 10, at the end of the first timeline, he appears to fade into reality above Homura.<br />
*A fanart meme tends to point out Kyubey's similarity to [http://prettycure.wikia.com/wiki/Hummy Hummy], the mascot of ''Suite Precure♪'', the other (much more traditional, child-friendly, and optimistic) magical girl series that began airing in Winter 2011. Due to the closeness of their airing dates, this is likely a coincidence, but it has not gone unnoticed and adds to the series' postmodernist deconstruction of the magical girl genre.<br />
<br />
==Speculations==<br />
*When Kyubey gets shot by Homura in [[Episode 8]], another one appears and eats the dead body. It could either be another version of 'Kyubey' (as expected in some speculations), or the same Kyubey that respawned. After all, [[Wikipedia:Cat#History_and_mythology|cats are supposed to have 9 lives]], so what about him?<br />
**This could also be an effort to get back some energy, that would otherwise be lost.<br />
*Many fans believe [[Speculah:Kyuubey_is_Evil_Theory|Kyubey is evil]] and believe he/she should not be trusted.<br />
*According to the same theory, it is likely that Kyubey is the messenger of a greater entity that has its own agenda.<br />
*Some think Kyubey's real form is that of a red devil and his/her white fur acts as a cover as indicated by tears rather than bleeding in Episode 1.<br />
** Additionally, when he gets shot full of holes in Episode 8, there are small drops that appear to be blood, but they do not spread out after he is hit. He also appears to have no bones or organs.<br />
** [[Gen Urobuchi]]'s [[Translated_Official_Documents#Chidamari|tweet]] "Yeah, that's terrible! We still haven't shown even a single scene with bloodshed!" (まだ今んとこ流血シーンなんてないのに、ひどいよね!) may refer to the fact that Kyubey doesn't bleed.<br />
*The existence of multiple Kyubey bodies that seem to share a single personality, his use of the pronoun "we" in referring to himself/the Incubator(s) in episode 9, and his in ability to comprehend the Magis' emotional distress at losing one of their own, suggests that the Incubators might be a hive mind (many individuals acting as an extension of a single consciousness).<br />
*It would seem that Kyubey never lies but instead holds back important information, often under the pretense of no-one asking him. An example for this is episode 9: when Kyouko asks him if Sayaka can be saved, he only says that nobody ever tried to turn a witch back into a human being (which could in fact be true), rather than saying that it's indeed possible (which would be a lie, as he reveals to Homura at the end of the episode). However, Kyubey also tells Madoka that he is incapable of manipulating humans, which contradicts the reason why he allowed Kyouko to chase after Sayaka in the first place: he wanted her to be killed so that only Homura would be left to battle the powerful Walpurgis, thus forcing Madoka to become a magical girl. This is clearly an attempt to manipulate Madoka's actions, making his earlier statement to her a lie.<br />
**He also states that his/their reasons for creating magic girls is so that new cultures can arise without the heat death of the universe preventing that. He seems rather nonchalant about leaving Earth to be destroyed at the hands of Kriemhild Gretchen in timeline 4. Given that nearly all of the [[Population_dynamics|population dynamics]] models made for the Puella Magica world will inevitably result in the destruction of life on that planet and that Earth is clearly not the only world harvested by Kyubey's race, their reasoning seems rather suspect. Assuming they really are collecting the energy to stave off the heat death of the universe, for other cultures doesn't appear to be their reason for doing it. If he is consciously lying about the reason, then this would make his story to Madoka another attempt to manipulate her by claiming it's 'for the greater good.' Additionally, if this was the reason and if magic/wishes can really do anything, then why not simply explain it to someone and ask them to make a wish to prevent the universe from suffering heat death? Surely someone somewhere in the universe would be willing to make such a wish.<br />
***To our knowledge, Kyubey has thus far only accepted wishes that his species's technology can "grant:" the healing of a paralyzed hand (Sayaka), the rescuing of a girl trapped in a crushed automobile (Mami), mass mind-control (Kyoko), and time travel (Homura). While we don't know for sure the bounds of this technology, we definitely do know that Kyubey's species can't end the heat death of the universe on its own, meaning that Kyubey wouldn't be able to grant the wish "Save the universe from entropy!"<br />
**** No limits were stated. He hasn't failed to grant (or rejected) any wish on the first request. (Was technology ever mentioned?)<br />
***** Kyubey does say at one point that sufficiently-advanced technology can appear to be magic to less-advanced species. He also mentions early on in the series that he can't bring dead people back to life, a clear limitation on his wish-granting abilities that most likely comes from his species' inability to revive the dead. <br />
***** However, note, that wish granting may essentially be considered as an exertion of energy. Yet, magic girls generate more unergy upon their deciet, therefore it is anti-entropy. To wish against entropy, all the energyu in the universe would not suffice.<br />
***** Isn't that inconsistent with Homura undoing deaths every time she time-travels. <br />
****** No, since Homura always travels back to a certain point in time before everyone is killed. She isn't "undoing" deaths so much as going to a timeline where they haven't happened yet. (Of course, if Kyubey's species is capable of time travel, then he could ''technically'' "revive" a person by going back in time, grabbing a past version of that person, and bringing him/her to the present...but, of course, the past version of said person wouldn't necessarily be the same as the version the potential Puella Magi would want. In addition, picking up and dropping off people in different time lines could have complicated, horrible effects on time in general.)<br />
**** When granting Homura's wish, Kyubey clearly states her wish surpassed entropy and yet he still succeeds in granting it. (see episode 10's page) That's consistent with his explanation that magic comes from the girls and magic is above entropy.<br />
***** However, while "magic"/"miracles" can come from the girls, we have seen no indication of Kyubey being able to use any kind of magic other than what his species' advanced technology allows him to do. Moreover, he -- not the girls themselves -- grants the wishes, meaning that all wishes thus far have been granted using technology rather than magic. Taking fan theories about the ending of the show in mind, this could become a plot point when Madoka makes her decision to become/refuse to become a Puella Magi.<br />
***** We don't know how wishes are granted. Another possibility is he plays a catalytic role. Homura's wish wouldn't have been possible if he granted them only using what his race was already capable of.<br />
****** He couldn't have just given her a portable time machine? In that case, he would have given Homura the technological means to complete her wish, while she would have provided the "magic" to make that wish surpass entropy -- making Kyubey's, as you suggested, a catalytic role that doesn't necessarily involve magic on his part. Going back to why he apparently can't find someone to wish against the heat death of the universe, Kyubey most likely can't provide the catalyst necessary for such a wish to come true. He'd have to rely entirely on the magic of the girl in question, and so far as we know Madoka has been the only person he's met who might have the magical potential to rewrite the laws of the universe. <br />
***However, Kyubey seems to either remember making a contract with Homura, or know that such a contract has been made. It is therefore possible that the reason he wishes to make Madoka into a magical girl is that, as long as Homura keeps on resetting the space/time continuum, Kyubey can harvest an infinite amount of energy from each of the witches killed in each individual timeline, thus permanently preventing the heat death of the universe - for as long as Homura keeps resetting time. If Kyubey harvests energy from each parallel universe (and any witches that may be created from them), it is possible to create a paradoxically infinite universe.<br />
** He seems to show emotion despite claiming his race doesn't or can't. [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/index.php?title=File:Qb-flaunting-the-goods.jpg&oldid=4777 Kyubey]<br />
*His name would also be very similar to Incubi.<br />
<br />
==Gallery==<br />
<gallery captionalign="left" position="center"><br />
File:Kyubey eats.jpg<br />
File:Kyubey.jpg|He stares into your soul.<br />
File:Kyubey Original Design.jpg|Original character design by Aoki Ume<br />
File:Incubator.jpg|Shot full of holes<br />
File:Kyubee_name.jpg|Offical site HTML show "Kyubee"<br />
File:20110125211127.jpg|Offical CM show "Kyubey"<br />
File:Qb-flaunting-the-goods.jpg|Kyubey being Kyubey.<br />
File:Kyuubey_aaah.PNG<br />
File:Kyuubey tastes like chicken.PNG|Great taste, less filling<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*{{pixiv_tag|キュゥべえ}}<br />
*{{booru_tag|danbooru|kyubey}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selenehttps://wiki.puella-magi.net/w/index.php?title=Tatsuya_Kaname&diff=9485Tatsuya Kaname2011-04-22T19:26:35Z<p>Aster Selene: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Infobox_character<br />
|name=Tatsuya Kaname<br />
|image=[[File:Tatsuya Kaname.png|300px]]<br />
|jname=鹿目 タツヤ (Kaname Tatsuya)<br />
|seiyuu=[http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=591 Kaori Mizuhashi]<br />
|age=3<br />
}}<br />
==Official Info==<br />
* [[Madoka]]'s little brother. He's 3 years old and goes to kindergarten.<br />
<br />
*{{spoiler|In episode 12 it is revealed that he still has some attachment to Madoka even though she was wiped from physical existence; it's possible he can see her or has residual memories of her.}}<br />
[[Category:Characters]]</div>Aster Selene