Difference between revisions of "Talk:Homulilly"

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(Regarding Name)
(Undo revision 44270 by 75.165.80.183 (talk))
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:I remember seeing speculation on 2ch that it has to do with her being the witch of "this life/world," or "shigan" in Japanese. Shigan is the opposite of higan (nirvana). Higanbana (literally "higan flowers") is the Japanese name for red spider lillies. So maybe they made up a shiganbana, or Homu lilly, as a pun. [[User:Ykm|Ykm]] 00:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 
:I remember seeing speculation on 2ch that it has to do with her being the witch of "this life/world," or "shigan" in Japanese. Shigan is the opposite of higan (nirvana). Higanbana (literally "higan flowers") is the Japanese name for red spider lillies. So maybe they made up a shiganbana, or Homu lilly, as a pun. [[User:Ykm|Ykm]] 00:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 
::Sounds plausible yet I cannot help to think this is just a clever way to say it without saying it by being blunt about it and clever about it... --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 
::Sounds plausible yet I cannot help to think this is just a clever way to say it without saying it by being blunt about it and clever about it... --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 06:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
:::Clever? This fucking name makes me want to kill babies. If they wanted to go the Japanese theme they could have used actual Japanese, instead they went with a suggestive pun that turns Homura's witch into a giant fucking joke. I was banking on her being walpurgis but to sink this low with creative license is unacceptable. Instead of being interested in why Walpurgis is so important and related to Gretchen if she's not Homura, I just get mad over how they squandered an opportunity to do nothing more than turn a pivotal character into a laughing stock. [[Special:Contributions/75.165.80.183|75.165.80.183]] 10:50, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
+
:::Clever? This fucking name makes me want to kill babies. If they wanted to go the Japanese theme they could have used actual Japanese, instead they went with a suggestive pun that turns Homura's witch into a giant fucking joke. I was banking on her being walpurgis but to sink this low with creative license is unacceptable. Instead of being interested in why Walpurgis is so important and related to Gretchen if she's not Homura, I just get mad over how they squandered an opportunity to do nothing more than turn a pivotal character into a laughing stock.
  
 
==What we think we know so far:==
 
==What we think we know so far:==

Revision as of 13:31, 11 June 2012

I knew it! My Faust Theory was correct! SPDUDE48 17:26, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Defeats Walpurgis Night without draining all her MP?

Isn't this contradict with the information written in Madoka Portable Wiki? (ネタバレ注意 隠しエンド(?) below) --0x99 17:21, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I do not understand how can Homura become a Witch that way... it would make more sense if she drained all her MP... --Mutopis 23:39, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Are you referring to the article or Japanese wiki? Japanese wiki state that you have to die in the lowest floor of Walpurgis Night (with Wal's HP gauge, not the beginning of the dungeon) in order to get Homulilly "Game Over" illustration, which make sense. --0x99 23:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Ah, now makes sense. I thought she became a witch without losing alot of MP. I was refering to this "If Homura defeats Walpurgis Night without draining all her MP, she will become a witch and cause a Game Over.", it needs clarification. --Mutopis 23:57, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Regarding Name

Candeloro makes sense for Mami (Italian and the meaning behind it, see the page), Ophelia too (with regards to the Shakespeare speculation)... and several other names that are German and foreign for the witches... but Homulilly? (it feels out of place with the Faustian/German/Other foreign names theme etc.) Couldnt they at least try to find some sort of equivalent that was more subtle at least? I wonder who came up with the name (eyes Hanokage). For Yurifans, this would be marvelous but also would feel like hitting them with a blunt instrument that says "yes, she is that way"... --Mutopis 23:57, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I remember seeing speculation on 2ch that it has to do with her being the witch of "this life/world," or "shigan" in Japanese. Shigan is the opposite of higan (nirvana). Higanbana (literally "higan flowers") is the Japanese name for red spider lillies. So maybe they made up a shiganbana, or Homu lilly, as a pun. Ykm 00:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Sounds plausible yet I cannot help to think this is just a clever way to say it without saying it by being blunt about it and clever about it... --Mutopis 06:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Clever? This fucking name makes me want to kill babies. If they wanted to go the Japanese theme they could have used actual Japanese, instead they went with a suggestive pun that turns Homura's witch into a giant fucking joke. I was banking on her being walpurgis but to sink this low with creative license is unacceptable. Instead of being interested in why Walpurgis is so important and related to Gretchen if she's not Homura, I just get mad over how they squandered an opportunity to do nothing more than turn a pivotal character into a laughing stock.

What we think we know so far:

better image quality
  • "HOMULILLY": Witch with a disc on the top with infinite sign. Her witch type is 此岸の魔女 (Shigan no Majō) (or "shigan") which basically means "Witch of Mortal World" (i.e. the opposite of Higan). Witch runes below reads "Game Over".
    • "Shigan" is the opposite of "Higan" (nirvana). Higanbana (literally "higan flowers") is the Japanese name for red spider lillies. So shiganbana, or Homu lilly, could be a pun.
      • Lycoris radiata (red spider lily) are very poisonous. These are mostly used in Japan, and they are used to surround their paddies and houses to keep the pest and mice away. That is why most of them grow close to rivers now.
      • In Japan the Red Spider Lily signals the arrival of fall. Many Buddhist will use it to celebrate the arrival of fall with a ceremony at the tomb of one of their ancestors. They plant them on graves because it shows a tribute to the dead. People believe that since the Red Spider Lily is mostly associated with death that one should never give a bouquet of these flowers
      • Homulilly's witch kiss could reaffirm the Spider Lily connection.
  • witch name is literally "Homu Yuri" (ほむ百合)
  • Legend:
Since these scarlet flowers usually bloom near cemeteries around the autumnal equinox, they are described in Chinese and Japanese translations of the Lotus Sutra as ominous flowers that grow in Diyu (also known as Hell), or Huángquán (Simplified Chinese: 黄泉; Traditional Chinese: 黃泉), and guide the dead into the next reincarnation.

When the flowers of lycoris bloom, their leaves would have fallen; when their leaves grow, the flowers would have wilted. This habit gave rise to various legends. A famous one is the legend of two elves: Mañju (Simplified Chinese: 曼珠; Traditional Chinese: 曼珠), who guarded the flower, and Saka (Simplified Chinese: 沙华; Traditional Chinese: 沙華), who guarded the leaves. Out of curiosity, they defied their fate of guarding the herb alone, and managed to meet each other. At first sight, they fell in love with each other. Amaterasu, exasperated by their waywardness, separated the miserable couple, and laid a curse on them as a punishment: the flowers of Mañju shall never meet the leaves of Saka again. It was said that when the couple met after death in Diyu, they vowed to meet each other after reincarnation. However, neither of them could keep their words. In commemoration of the couple, some call the herbs 'Mañjusaka' (Simplified Chinese:曼珠沙华; Traditional Chinese: 曼珠沙華), a mixture of 'Mañju' and 'Saka', instead of their scientific name. The same name is used in Japanese, in which it is pronounced manjushage.

Some other legends have it that when you see someone that you may never meet again, these flowers, also called red spider lilies, would bloom along the path. Perhaps because of these sorrowful legends, Japanese people often used these flowers in funerals. The popular Japanese name Higanbana (彼岸花 Higan bana) for lycoris radiata literally means higan (the other or that shore of Sanzu River) flower, decorate and enjoyable, flower of afterlife in gokuraku jyōdo (極楽浄土 gokuraku jyōdo).

  • Design: (please, add anything you may notice)...--Mutopis 09:46, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
If you notice, the sides have a curb shape like an hourglass and the grey/white dots could be sand.
The top part looks like an old vinyl record, the stylus has an odd shape. If you think about it, it almost makes it look like a stereotypical witches' hat.
It's a record. Records are known for what when broken? Constant repetition of the same warped sounds, when they break. What happened in Homura's life to cause her such grief? Constant repetition of the same horrific events, when she resets. it seems like Homulilly's theme is an inability to escape the sequence of events in PMMM ('witch of this world' = 'unable to move on from horrible events'?). What with the infinity symbol, the scratched record, etc. Doctor Bad Ideas 23:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Under the vinyl record, what looks like hair or pig tails, could be moemura's pigtails.
Plus, there appears to be what looks like a chin right under the record, making her look like a classic Witch.
The section where the braided parts meet, there is something like red sticks.
These sticks could be knitting needles, held by hands formed by the ends of her pigtails.
Under the red stick, the hair forms the shape of what that looks like the number eight or the infinite symbol.
If you think about it, it almost looks like an hourglass shape too...
  • Infinite Symbol:
    • While it could be a reference to Homura's time reset, it could have some connection to the Steady State Theory (aka Infinite Universe).
      • The Theory is a model developed as an alternative to the Big Bang Theory, the idea is that the universe is not only infinite, but the issue of entropy is of little consequence as new matter is created to solve the problem. While the Big Bang Theory suggests that not only does the universe has a beginning, but as it expands it will reach to an end (among many theories, entropy plays a role in it):
"In 1948, some cosmologists who were unhappy with the big bang proposed a radical new model of the universe, based on the idea that the universe was not only homogenous in space (a fundamental concept in most models of the universe) but in time. This means, as the universe expands and galaxies separate, new galaxies form to fill the gaps created.
This theory appealed to many, as it had none of the problems associated with the big bang - what preceded it, what caused it, and so forth. Furthermore, it explained most of the effects that the big bang did - the red-shift is explained by the expansion, the background radiation is the light from former stars red-shifted. Furthermore, the theory requires only a minor modification in the laws of relativity, and the rate of matter creation is too low to be observable in any case.
Observational evidence proved to be the undoing of the steady state theory. The number of quasars increases when looking back into the past, violating the perfect cosmological principle. Furthermore, as time is infinite, another intelligent species should already have colonized the observable universe, which is obviously not the case.
In terms of thermodynamics, the steady state theory resolves some problems and generates others. It allows the universe to have existed for an infinite time, because as entropy increases, more matter appears which increases the order again - the new matter is an inexhaustible supply of negative entropy. In the same way, this balancing of entropy with new matter could be the very reason for space's expansion.
However, the steady state theory breaks both the first and second law of thermodynamics with the matter increases, although novel ways around the problem have been suggested - for example, the universe could be like a massive black hole, which absorbs extra matter when it expands. Even so, though, the matter increase is, to my mind, too small to balance the entropy increases caused by, for example, the stars burning.
The steady state theory flourished in the sixties, but today, few people believe it."[1]
The bottom part of the witch's cape stretches down and connects to the pink orb in the hourglass-like shape in the background. It's unclear whether it's extending out of the hourglass or getting pulled in, as if by a black hole.
A matching pink orb is in the top half of the hourglass. Like the bottom part of her cape, Homulilly's hat extends upward toward it; however, it then bends back down and doesn't reach the orb. This may represent Homura repeatedly resetting time and being unable to move on from the "mortal world".
The halves of the hourglass may represent separate universes, and the points of light inside of them representing stars.
Two shapes resembling bat wings can be seen behind the "HOMULILLY" runes. These may either extend out of Homulilly's cape or be part of the hourglass's top half. --Neuchadjinys 18:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Speculations

Regarding the speculation where it mentioned Homura did not use time magic a lot and so she did not have much sand on the other side. Perhaps what Homura noticed is that the hourglass that contain the sand was broken and she no longer can use the magic to reverse the time any more. Thus, her despair took over and she turned into a witch. Demonicslayer 17:39, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

That makes sense, in the anime Homura uses the reverse magic when she runs out of sand or when she still has left. It would be strange if she couldnt unless the hourlass was broken... --Mutopis 23:53, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

This reminds me, is there any evidence regarding "witch name is literally "Homu Yuri" (ほむ百合)"?? --Mutopis 07:35, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Not really, it was a joke. There's not much behind it beside Yuri means Lily. Also I don't think her hourglass works that way (cite: Otona Anime interview, IIRC) --0x99 07:37, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Is that interview translated or something so we can link it to the page? --Mutopis 09:22, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, I can't seems to find it but IIRC Urobuchi said no matter how much sand left Homu will return to the beginning on the bed at the hospital. Let's see if I can still find the source for it... --0x99 09:57, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
I could see it being a dual pun to both the spider lilly and yuri, since the lilly is so commonly associated with yuri in Japan. The fact they used Homura's nickname "Homu" fits the feeling that the name was made a bit jokingly. --randomanon 09:45, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
It's also worth nothing that Inukare were the one who nicknamed Homura "Homuhomu" --0x99 09:57, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Grief Seed

Does anyone know if they made an artwork version of Homura's grief seed? It makes no sense that made her witch form but nothing about her grief seed... --Mutopis 23:54, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

None as far as I can find. The Homulilly illustration in the game is slightly larger (longer) than the one in special DVD (camera panning to the same view area as gallery) but I doubt it is anything related to her Grief Seed. --0x99 01:07, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
I can make one if asked
Wasn't her Grief Seed technically shown in Episode 11?
Homura grief seed.png
Indeed it was. Looks like a gear to me, but this I took that screenie from the TV version, perhaps it's detailed on the BD. --BrickBreak 00:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Here's the BD version with a bright background. E11 homuras final form.png KM 08:11, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

There is post on 2channel that grief seed toy have homulily at event, maybe on sale july http://ikura.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/anichara2/1331497381/433-435 43.244.33.79 00:57, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Meaning homulilly name

Hello, I come from 2channel Post on 2channel witch book link to foreign blog which I think has meaning of name correct http://ikura.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/anichara2/1331497381/363 Sorry but I post in japanese remainig 此岸と彼岸は対になってるし、PSPカスタムテーマにあるホムリリィのものと思われる刻印は彼岸花がモチーフになっているので、リリィは「百合」じゃなくてスパイダーリリィのことで間違いないと思う。まあダブルミーニングの可能性は十分にあるのだけれども 43.244.33.79 00:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

This is already mentioned above in #What we think we know so far: however possible Homulilly symbol in PSP theme seems to be new. Hmm.
Judging from "彼岸花", Is it the one in フォト menu? (See below)
PSP Photo Icon.jpg
--0x99 07:09, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

You Tube Video

Homulilly event Jesus Christ! This is so heartwrentching!