Talk:Kriemhild Gretchen

Finale

Returning to Gretchen's card, how is this different from Madokami? Prima 07:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I suppose it's like doing something the "wrong way" versus the "right way"? Kriemhild makes a quick-and-easy but illusory utopia that does nothing to treat the root problem, while Madoka makes actual change that is not as complete or perfect as an idyllic dream but is more valid and done through less sinister means.--urutapu 08:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Like Urutapu says, Gretchen's method is "brutally murder everyone and everything that falls in its parameters for misfortune" whereas Madokami/Godoka addresses the problem without anyone needing to die (though we could argue her taking the grief away from mahou shoujos ultimately leaves their soul gems empty, and therefore, their next battle is almost assuredly their last). She didn't fix anything else about the world-- there is still tons and tons of unrelated misfortune. Just no more witches.

Gretchen VS Margarete in Goethe's Faust

I have a speculation about the name Gretchen/Margarete. Faust refers to the girl he loved as "Margarete" at the beginning. But then, suddenly, this changes to "Gretchen", a diminutive form of Margarete, after they had sexual intercourse. My teacher explained it this way: Margarete, meaning pearl, represents the purity and innocence of the girl. After their intercourse, the name change could represent the pollution of this purity; in the same way, i wonder if the choice of the name Gretchen instead of Margarete for Madoka's witch is due to the fact Madoka is also a pure and innocent girl, and the witch represents the corruption of her soul. Onpu-chan 17:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

No need to be shy, go ahead and post it on the real page, not just in the talk page. I see you're quite knowledgeable about Goethe, and that's good for speculating on this series! --KFYatek 18:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! I've just registered so i wasn't sure how far we're free to write our speculations. If i notice more connections between Goethe and Madoka, i'll be glad to post them! P.S. I'm not english mothertongue so my text in the page could contain a few mistakes, hope somebody can correct them for me. Thanks! ;) Onpu-chan 21:39, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The assertion that in other timelines her name isn't Kriemhild Gretchen

I don't think this argument holds much weight. Even if her name is only displayed in one timeline, the fact that certain details don't seem to change significantly between timelines (magical girl costumes, witch appearances) makes me feel that it wouldn't be wrong to call her Kriemhild Gretchen across all timelines.--urutapu 07:33, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

I actually realized that about both times she appears in ep10 and changed the page accordingly some time ago. However, in ep12 we see a totally different witch, so I'm not so sure in that case... --KFYatek 11:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)