Talk:Kyubey: Difference between revisions

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: Kyubey is incredibly vague about the contract, so it's unclear if puellae magi ''must'' fight witches outside of ensuring their own survival (as they need Grief Seeds to counteract the corruption caused by the use of magic and/or the build-up of negative emotions). I suppose a girl could contract, get her wish, and never fight witches, but she would likely end up a witch herself very soon. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 18:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
: Kyubey is incredibly vague about the contract, so it's unclear if puellae magi ''must'' fight witches outside of ensuring their own survival (as they need Grief Seeds to counteract the corruption caused by the use of magic and/or the build-up of negative emotions). I suppose a girl could contract, get her wish, and never fight witches, but she would likely end up a witch herself very soon. [[User:Momoism|Momoism]] 18:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


== Kyubey and Utilitarianism ==


I am working on Kyubey's utilitarianism, this space is for a rough draft.
== Gender ==
*On the Blu-ray commentary it was pointed by [[Gen Urobuchi]] that Kyubey has no gender.
**Does that mean that the references to Kyuubee on this wiki should be neutralised, ze/zie/sie instead of he/she? Might even help more people become aware of gender neutrality among humans! - [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/index.php?title=Kyubey&curid=17&diff=42969&oldid=42520] 08:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
:::The problem with that is they aren't in common dictionaries and aren't standard English. [[User:KM|KM]] 09:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
::::Not to mention it would be a nightmare, since we will have to hunt down every page that mentions Kyubey as "he". Personally I would let it be as it is since the girls think of Kyubey as a "he" even if "it" thinks of itself as being genderless...--[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 10:06, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::Kyubey refers himself using "Boku" so i think he consider himself as male [[User:Kimidori|Kimidori]] 10:29, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::Only in "human terms" to make it easy for the girls when they are addressing to him. I dont think Kyubey thinks of iself personally as a "he"... --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 10:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::Isn't "boku" kind of gender-neutral? I mean, I was taught that it can be used by anyone and tends to be the default in gender-neutral song lyrics. It's pretty commonly used this way in anime and manga. --[[User:CrownClown|CrownClown]] 02:05, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::::In recent times, they grudgingly allow it (like the use of a universal "he"), but this is unlikely to be proper Japanese. For example, Kyon, in the Haruhi light novels makes a big point of how Sasaki refers to herself with the pronoun "boku", which gives her a tomboyish feel. [[User:Iruel|Iruel]] 03:00, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::::It's proper Japanese for young people in casual situations in the real world, and is becoming more prevalent among girls around the age of Madoka and company. Anime and manga may emphasize the former status of "boku" as a male-only pronoun as a quick-and-easy way of characterization: "She uses 'boku,' so we can tell that she's a 'tomboy' without wasting a lot of time on extra dialogue!" Personal pronouns and other indicators of gentle/harsh speech are often used this way in Japanese fiction, but shouldn't be understood as indicative of how people on the street actually talk. (In normal Japanese speech, it's actually common to almost never use personal pronouns at all! "I," "you," and so on can often be inferred from context alone.) A girl who uses "boku" in the real world wouldn't necessarily be considered masculine -- it all depends on her personality and the context in which she uses it.


Urobuchi's view in energy conservation and connection to [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/SWITCH_2011-07_Vol.29_No.07 Kyubey's utilitarianism] [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Spa_Weekly!_2011-07-19 kyubey's belief] and [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Newspapers_2011 the overly romanticism of (good) reality (false perception) and good intentions with bad results of unhappiness] and [http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Newspapers_2011 trade offs]. By the way I am reading Michael Sandel's book [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdfcR-8hEY "Justice"] and it is a good source of understanding philology. Will finish when I can. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 04:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::::So far as Kyuubey is concerned, "boku" may be useful just because of the social status it implies: the standard "watashi" is slightly formal (and would put Kyuubey on the same level as the girls), "watakushi" would be too humble, and "ore" would be too harsh. Any of the less-common pronouns would lend unwanted additional flavor to Kyuubey's speech, since -- as I wrote above -- they're more often used as characterization shortcuts in fictional works. "Boku" allows Kyuubey to keep relations with the girls casual and congenial, while slightly insinuating that he's on a higher social level than them (that is, he can afford to talk down to them).


:I take it that the words below are your voice (and not an attempt at translation), right, Mutopis?  I ask for purpose of response. ;) -- [[User:NS|preceding comment by NS]] 16:46, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Also, CrownClown: I think "boku" tends to be used more often in song lyrics simply because it's easier to fit in, mora-wise! :D [[Special:Contributions/64.89.144.110|64.89.144.110]] 03:13, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
::I can confirm these are not Urobuchi's thoughts. --[[User:Randomanon|randomanon]] 16:53, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
::This is a philosophical essay with my words, I use some comments and information from interviews and some material from the book "Justice" to interpret the anime series in a philosophical way. I am using the same method that I did with [[Talk:Madoka_Kaname|Madoka and her motives]] to appreciate and get a better understanding. I want to see if Kyubey's utilitarianism is that simple or it is more complex than that, and why it seems justifiable (I am playing the devil's advocate), but more importantly to demonstrate that Kyubey is not evil, but just follows what he was created to do. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 20:54, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


*Guys, if you like to contribute or express an opinion about the essay, you are more than welcome. This is just a rough draft. I think I will be working on this for a while and I would like some opinions to make sure it remains consistent. --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
====Fan-Video====
*I hope no one has any problem with this essay being long. To tell you the truth I have no idea how long this will grow into. I am still working, rewriting, doing few changes here and there... --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 09:51, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


** Thanks for your professional opinion. But there are too many changes a day, and that makes it troublesome to track changes. Isn't it better to write into a file in your computer first to reduce modification to the page? And I think it good to open a new topic talking about this. [[User:Yorkwoo|Yorkwoo]] 15:26, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Features Kyubey getting ripped to shreads , pretty well made. [[User:Espeon|Espeon]] 20:53, 6 July 2015 (UTC)


<b>What is Utilitarianism?</b>
==When was this stated?==
 
*I read under the unproven theories section that Kyubey states early in the series that he cannot bring dead people back to life. I've just watched the entire series through recently, and not only did I not catch on to that, but that goes against certain events in the first audio drama and The Different Story, in which he revives a cat and Sayaka respectively. If I did in fact miss anything he might have said, would someone please point it out? [[User:McKnight|McKnight]]
The Human Philosophy known as [[wikipedia:Utilitarianism|utilitarianism]] can be easily breakdown as the philosophy that pursues the maximization of happiness and the reduction of pain, or at least the creation of happiness that surpasses the overall total of pain. If Kyubey's brand of utilitarianism was that simple there would be no need for this essay. But utilitarianism, like all brands of philosophy, have taken several different developments and each one has a distinctive flavor that requires recognition. This will be an attempt to understand Kyubey's own brand of Utilitarianism.
** A friend of mine also once said that the same thing is mentioned during the final timeline, which is presumably the anime's finale, but I've re-watched that whole episode in particular just shortly afterwards, and there isn't ''anything'' said about wishes in general. [[User:McKnight|McKnight]]
 
According with [[Episode 9|Kyubey's mission]], he wants to save the universe by offsetting the depletion of the universe's energy (actually, Kyubey's statement is wrong, the correct assessment would be to stop [[Thermodynamics|the permanent loss of heat]], but who am I to question an advance alien race?). To accomplish this mission Kyubey's alien race has found the answer to the problem, the harvesting of human emotion. The process is simply, give a human magical powers to maximize their sense of hope, then reverse their hope to be turned into despair, during the process the despair energy would be released during the witchfication process thus repairing the damage done to the universe. Repeat the process countless of times until an appropriate energy quota per planet is reached. Sounds simple yet horrifying at the same time. For many this is an example of utilitarianism as its worst, many critics believe that Kyubey is justifying the exploration of little girls to save the universe. However, before we can accuse Kyubey of anything, it is essential to understand the moral nature, as well as Kyubey's reasoning behind it, to determine if the reasoning is justifiable.
 
<b>Kyubey and Bentham: Let us just enslave the human race!</b>
 
Invaders from another galaxy have decided that to save the universe, they must harvest energy to repair the damage already done to it. Their race is incapable of producing such energy by themselves, but thanks to their advance technology they have detected a source of energy that is perfect to solve their crisis. They have detected a "bizarre" mental behavior known as "emotions" capable of producing the required energy but it goes unprocessed and it is localized in another galaxy. The inhabitants of this alien galaxy are equally strange as primitive, not only do they suffer from this mental anomaly known as emotions, but they are being wasteful by not fully developing its potential. Such a waste of energy would be a crime if left unharvested. The alien race decides to invade this galaxy, enslave the inhabitants, and fully exploit its potential by maximizing the production of energy to meet their quota... or so it should be if this was Bentham's brand of utilitarianism but it is not (at least not completely). This is the first indicator that there is something odd about Kyubey's utilitarianism.
 
According with Jeremy Bentham, the goal of Utilitarianism is to produce as much happiness as possible. But most importantly, all forms of happiness and all form of pains have their own equal moral value (no pleasure is better or highest than the other). Which means one form of happiness cannot be measured against another form of happiness; the same can be said about pain. It takes people's preferences as they are without passing judgement on its moral worth. It would be presumptuous to judge some pleasures to be inherently better than others. At the heart of it, Bentham's utilitarianism is nonjudgmental, to him all pleasures are equal. The assumption is that by measuring and calculating the values of pleasure and pains into a formula, one can reach an agreeable moral choice that would promote the general welfare and happiness of the populace. Let us consider the issue at hand, the whole universe is going to be destroyed and all Kyubey is doing is extinguishing a few souls to preserve the general welfare and happiness of countless galaxies. Perhaps one whole planet would be annihilated in the process, but what is a few billion souls when you take into account billions and billions of worlds that would be saved. Some would object that exploiting and even killing human beings is immoral and wrong. Yet, Kyubey would point out that humans do it all the time to one another, and not only that but that they even do it against other lower life forms for their own selfish benefit. After all, aren't humans exploiting animals and other organism to feed their populace, to attain monetary gain, and maintain their civilization? (be it on the agricultural sector or for medical research or a source of cheap labor). Why should humans be given a preferential treatment? After all, maybe there are more advance and worthier alien species out there that deserves to be saved more than humans, and maybe that makes humans the lower life form. On this cold and calculating equation to save the universe one has to arrive to one simple conclusion. If saving the universe by exploiting the emotions of humans has the same moral value than domesticating cattle to feed society, then it should be reasonable to say that Bentham would not object to enslaving the human race to achieve Kyubey's objective. While one would object that it would be morally wrong to exploit humans, one would also have to argue that it would be equally morally wrong to allow the universe to be destroyed. In the utilitarian equation it would be better for one whole planet to suffer than the whole universe to collapse. After all, saving the universe at the expense of the human race would create the greatest form of happiness for the rest of the galaxy. It would suck for the human race, but stopping the end of the universe trumps anything and everything. And if you don't like what Kyubey is doing then too bad, the end justifies the means and the universe will be saved like it or not.
 
Yet, as stated before, that is not the case here, at least partially. Apparently, Kyubey and the aliens have some sort of moral code of their own that disallow them to force humans to enter into a contract (slavery) but they are also not allowed to deceive (false advertisement) or lie to them either (this is, of course, up to debate). However, they do not seem to have any moral qualms regarding the harvesting of human emotions to save the galaxy, just the slavery part.
 
One objection to utilitarianism is the attempt to measure pleasure and pain in a single scale ignoring the qualitative experience of pleasure and pain. For many, certain forms of pleasure are not only higher but also worthier than others. It is believed that the pursue of a nobler pleasure would allow utilitarianism to the arrival of the greatest good. One could make an argument that saving the universe would create happiness but that the quality of happiness would suffer at the expense of perverse methods used for to attain it. Instead, one could say that Kyubey is trying to create the greatest form of happiness by using much more nobler (albeit questionable) methods to attain it. Rather than force the human race into submission and slavery, why not entice them into a fair contract?
 
<b>Kyubey and Mill: Humans are not Cattle.</b>
 
One of the biggest flaws regarding Benthram's utilitarianism is that it doesn't give adequate recognition to human dignity and individual's liberty. In its attempt to measure, aggregate, and calculate happiness in a nonjudgmental manner (democratizing all forms of pleasures equally) it eliminates the qualitative and unique moral value of pleasure and pain. What Bentham has done is reduce everything of moral importance to a single scale. John Stuart Mill tried to recalculate utilitarianism into a more humane and less calculating doctrine (a more human-friendly form of utilitarianism less prone to enslaving the human race) to achieve a munch nobler form of Utilitarianism that tries to promote the greatest good while recognizing the liberty of individuals. On Mill's ideal version of utilitarianism as long as no one gets hurts, allowed to exercise their own free will, and dont impose their beliefs on others, then one can achieve the correct moral value that results in the greatest good.
 
Let us go back to our scenario regarding an alien race looking for a solution to save our universe. They realize that the human race are the perfect source of emotional energy to be harvested to repair the damage already done. Kyubey's aliens know that humans are still primitive and prone to their mental illness known as emotions. Why not put them to better use by enslaving them and harvest all their energy? At least they would suffer for a noble cause. According with Mill this is wrong for two reasons, one it violates the liberty and rights of the human race and its individuals, no one should force them to be used as resources, no matter the cause. Second, the issue at stake here is that the noble idea to save the universe gets tainted because of the process that it is used to achieve the result. Why is this important? It could be damaging for the promotion of general welfare and happiness. Bentham would just suggest that "the end justifies the means" as long as the highest form of happiness is achieved. But Mill's issue is that such inhumane methods may create the greatest form of happiness today, but in the long run it could promote reckless behavior with devastating results. Mill is trying to use utilitarian principles as an attempt to promote progressive behavior (the pursue of not the highest pleasure but the noble ones as well).
 
Let us take for example the danger of creating a Superwitch like [[Kriemhild Gretchen]]. We saw the devastating results that took place in [[Episode 10]] in which the Earth would be destroy soon along with all life on the planet. According to Kyubey the creation of Kriemhild Gretchen allowed Kyubey to meet its energy quota in the short run. Of course, this [[wikipedia:slash-and-burn|slash-and-burn]] method was very profitable for Kyubey but what about the loss of future energy collection now that the Earth is dead? No problem, according with Kyubey there are other planets to exploit and using his cold logic the benefits outweighed the risks. Let us assume that what Kyubey probably mean is that Gretchen produce more energy in a single day than a lifetime collection from the Earth. If this is correct, then losing the planet Earth was an acceptable loss to attain a large reserve of despair energy. But what about the consequences?
 
Kriemhild Gretchen is a Superwitch, but apparently at the moment she is no threat to the galaxy. She may be powerful enough to kill one planet but she still small and powerless enough to be no threat to the alien race or to the whole galaxy for that matter. But let us say overtime she could be, perhaps with time she would find a way to travel to other planets and start growing. Wont this become an issue in the future? And what about the reckless behavior that it promoted? Wont there be a danger that other Kyubey's from other planets would try to recreate the same scenario to meet their quota? Soon it wont just be one planet, but perhaps a few docents and even more. Yet, that is what could happen in the worst case scenario. Of course, no one knows what the consequences would be like if such scenario were to take place (could it promote the accelerated process to end the whole galaxy, instead of saving it?). But that is one dangerous scenario regarding utilitarianism that Mill would like to try to avoid.
 
So, what is Mill's advice to Kyubey regarding utility? Well, not slaving the human race for one. Which in fact that is what they did. As stated by Kyubey it is against the rules to force humans to become a mahou shoujo and it is their individual choice to decide if they want to become one. This would seem to indicate the Kyubey respects the rights of individuals rather than violate them. Kyubey can be found promoting the Mahou Shoujo lifestyle without forcing anyone to join in, as it is per rules (at least, that is the idea). But what about the recognition for human dignity? Isn't it implied that by harvesting and using humans as resources are they no better than cattle to be consumed? Let us not forget that Kyubey recognizes humans to be unique creatures with a noble goal and purpose. Kyubey knows that humans are not lower life forms like cattle just to be harvested and consumed to save the universe, regardless of how humans treat each other or other lower lifeforms for agricultural purposes. Kyubey states that while it would be for the greater good to harvest human emotions, regardless how Madoka feels personally, at least Kyubey and the alien race took the effort to recognize their uniqueness. Of course, that seems like a nice speech but it still requires substance and evidence behind his words. One clear evidence is that if Kyubey thought humans were cattle then why bother with allowing humans to roam free? Why the rules regarding the respect of personal liberty and choice? We must also remember that as a sign of recognition regarding the uniqueness of humans, they are allowed one single wish. Kyubey states that is one reason why they are allowed such honor for accepting a contract. While it is true that Kyubey is using humans as a resource, they are neither slave nor cattle, no one is forcing them to make a contract to join in. Instead, the mahou shoujo are like employees and they are given the opportunity and honor to sacrifice their lives for a noble goal. It is not slavery if a mahou shoujo gives consent and it is not exploitation if they accept a wish as a form of payment.
 
However, there is a certain flaw regarding this argument that Kyubey is practicing a brand of Mill's utilitarianism, and that is that we are assuming that is what Kyubey is doing. First of all, as anyone who has watched the show, would have noticed that Kyubey's actions and behavior have been deceptive so far (Kyubey would disagree). Not to mention the fact that Kyubey concealed the true nature of witches and mahou shoujo from starry-eye naive girls. And who can forget the mess that resulted for the Earth in [[Episode 10]], and Kyubey's disregard for the well being of the planet's inhabitants. Was that Kyubey being cold and cruel? Or was Kyubey just accepting the hard facts as it were, and there was nothing that Kyubey could really do about it? To Mill, he would be appalled; after all the goal of utilitarianism is to achieve not just happiness but to make sure that the practice would retain long term results. The destruction of Earth may be good for the survival of the universe, but Mill would not consider that to be an example of the greatest good if the rights of billions of humans are violated in the process. Not to mention it could establish a terrible precedent for future energy collection processes and encourage bad immoral behavior through out the galaxy.
 
Such practices and behavior brings into question Kyubey's moral value and its sensibility, if it was being measured against human values. There lies a fundamental problem, we know nothing regarding this alien culture and their definition of morality (for all we know their doctrine is based on emotionless cold logic), but for the sake of argument let us assume that they do share our same view regarding morality. Can it be said that Kyubey's utilitarianism tries to remain faithful to either Bentham or Mill? Is it a mixture of it? Or perhaps it is neither and both, perhaps it is an unique form of utilitarianism? Or maybe the problem lies with Mill's utilitarianism, in which we are expecting Kyubey to live up to its principle ideally? But before that, we have to ask ourselves. Are we judging Kyubey unfairly?
 
<b>Let's Make a Deal: The Meaning of Consent.</b>
 
Let us explore the process in which one accepts a contract. One day a furry magical creature approaches you with the promise of making you into a magical girl and in exchange you get one wish. It sounds like a great bargain but you wonder if there is a trick to it. Of course, before you can accept the deal, the magical creature is obligated to disclose to you the dangers of becoming a magical girl. It informs you that you will be fighting witches, but you will be granted magical powers to defeat them. Sounds fair, right? What Kyubey is doing is offering you a product that sounds too good to be true, the creature discloses the terms of conditions (fight witches to gain more magic and keep yourself alive) in exchange for the opportunity to attain any wish that you want (within the limits of kamatic energy availability). The process sounds simple and you do not suspect anything. After all, it seems that you are being recruited to hunt down evil Witches who are eating innocent humans, it sounds like a noble cause. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity that may never come again (unless you are one of those girls who Kyubey decides to pester every opportunity to make a contract). You are swoon and tempted bye the opportunity that you decide to accept the contract, perhaps you feel desperate enough to want your wish that you decide that it is better than nothing. Then somehow you later learn that what you signed into was not what you expected, you are horrified to learn the truth behind the Puella Magi System that you want a way out to avoid your fate into becoming a Witch. But Kyubey refuses to do anything to reverse the process and tells you that you are under contractual obligation to fulfill your part of the bargain. It informs you that you are under no obligation to hunt down witches if you want, as it will accelerate the transformation process if you keep using your magic for anything else, but the process itself cannot be stopped. You accuse Kyubey of lying and the furry creature would refute your accusation by saying that it never lied and that you never ask for more details of what being a magical girl entails (in other words, you never read the fine print). But most importantly, Kyubey would maintain that since you consented to become a magical girl, you also consented with the terms and conditions of the contract that came with it: Fight witches until the moment of metamorphosis, in which the despair energy would be collected to repair the universe. Once a witch you would be freed from your contractual obligation and live the rest of your life as a witch until you are killed by another magical girl (of course, Kyubey wouldn't say it outright in the beginning. If Kyubey was a lawyer he would probably codified it in legalize to avoid annoying questions). But the point is clear, not only you gave consent to become a witch, but you failed to properly educate yourself with the consequences of becoming a Witch. In the end, the failure lies with you. Perhaps Kyubey should wear a [[wikipedia:Caveat_emptor|''"Caveat Emptor"'']] sign around his neck but that would undermine its purpose and Kyubey would declare that that would not be fair as it would guarantee the destruction of the universe along with planet Earth in the near or far future.
 
Let us analyze what went wrong and determine who truly is at fault. First of all, what is consent? And once we learn the meaning of it. Does it meet the requirements to be declared consensual? Or did any girl who consented did not truly consented because it did not meet the requirements for it?
 
Consent refers to the provision of approval, particularly and especially after thoughtful consideration. To be considered a consent, means that the individuals gives acceptance to an agreement after making an inform decision. However, those who believe that Kyubey is deceitful would point out that any girls' consent is tainted because their informed decision lacked the adequate information to make a rational decision. Some would even go so far as to say that Kyubey used coercion to attain consent in questionable situations. Therefore, critics would say it fails to meet the requirements for consent. If we consider Kyubey's practice to be deceitful and with the added element of coercion into it, it does bring into question wherever Kyubey's actions are valid and legal (if you could somehow take an alien to court to enforce Earth/national laws. But let us say you can for the sake of argument).
 
First the issue of coercion. One great example that we can use is [[Tomoe Mami]]'s case. Mami is a victim of a car crash accident (let us say for convenience that there is no foul play in part of Kyubey) and she is dying. The ambulance is on its way but it wont make it on time and Mami's body is already failing. Her body is mere minutes away from death and nothing can be done for her. Then suddenly, Kyubey appears and tells her that if she would like to make a contract. Kyubey informs Mami that it would grant her one wish and she would be fighting witches for the rest of her life. And she can make any wish she wants. This is a classic example of obtaining consent during duress. Mami had two choices to make, either accept Kyubey's contract and become a mahou shoujo or die. So she made her wish, she wished she could live (actually we dont know the actual wording of the wish, but it is assumed it had something to do with saving her life). Critics would say that Kyubey was being manipulative and unfair, that Mami's consent was tainted. The only way that Mami's consent would be valid if Kyubey had approached Mami before the accident or if Kyubey had saved Mami's life first then ask her if she would like to make a contract with it.
 
I would like to point out certain issues on this case. In accordance with utilitarianism (in which Mami chose the pleasure of living over the pain of dying), Mami benefited from Kyubey's contract and any complains she may have against it is invalid. After all, Mami wanted not to die and Kyubey wanted to get a contract from Mami. Both of them had something that the other wanted and in the exchange they both got it. Under that rationality it would be hardly unfair. Second, even if one considers Mami's consent to be tainted or coerced, their complain is invalid. After all, the idea of coercion would mean that someone's rights was violated. Unless someone can find evidence that Kyubey staged the accident, then maybe they would have a point, but it is not. There is also the issue that Kyubey obtained Mami's consent while dying. Critics like to point out that Kyubey should have saved Mami first, instead it was taking advantage of the situation. We have to remember, in the case of Kyubey we do not know what kind of magical powers Kyubey itself can use or do, Kyubey is simply part of the process to create and grant wishes. It's like saying "Why Kyubey cant wish itself to repair the universe?" Because it cant. For all that we know, approaching Mami with a contract was Kyubey's way of helping her. Let us assume that this is correct (a big assumption, I know) and Kyubey is a powerful yet powerless creature unless a wish is made. If this is correct, then there is nothing Kyubey could have done by itself other than grant wishes. If Kyubey is guilty of anything, is perhaps of taking advantage of a situation. Of course, critics would continue to question the issue of validity within Mami's consent, and whatever she was on her right mind to make such decision. But the fact remains that, regardless of the situation, Mami still gave consent to save her life and she benefited from her choice. Kyubey would like to point out that it doesnt matter in which situation Kyubey got her consent, the fact remains that in Mami's case if it hadn't approached her she would be dead, instead she got to live longer (just to be killed by a cheese eating witch). If anything, Mami benefited the most from the situation (to Kyubey's point of view). And since a deal is a deal, it is hardly unfair as long as both party benefit. I would agree that the issue regarding consent in Mami's case is a bit murky and difficult to determine, because of the lack of proper information. However, since we are trying to determine a conclusion with the given information, this would be my own impression. According with Bentham, the issue regarding consent doesn't matter since individual's right dont matter on the utilitarian equation, and since both parties benefited at the time, the deal was hardly unfair. For Mill, since Mami got to live longer and she avoided the pain of death, she got the greatest good in return. While it is true that the issue of consent is at the heart of the question, we have to assume that in Mill's equation, the desire to live and self-preservation would outweigh her individual's right. Mill would agree that Mami's liberty must be preserved on the utilitarian equation, but when you are weighting the two rights of the same individual, which side has the greater value? On one side it is Mami's right to life, on the other it is Mami's right to be allowed to consent free of pressure, deception, and duress. But let us be clear, Kyubey did not create the situation that Mami was in, and also there was the issue of time. Given what was occurring, there is not enough evidence to find culpability with Kyubey at the moment of the accident. And since Mami's life was at risk, her right to life takes precedent. And Mill would also like to remind us that no one got hurt during the deal (it did more than that, it prevented someone from dying) the issue of Mami's right being violated is moot since Mami's rights were preserved by saving her life so she could continue to exercise those same rights. According to Mill, actions and consequences arent the only issue, an individual's character also matters. If Mami were to die she would be deprived to exercise her rights and to develop her character as an individual. And what would be the worst precedent from this quandary? Kyubey appearing to every girl close to death and giving them the chance to save their own lives? Wouldn't that create the greatest happiness? And what if every girl Kyubey saves from death are like Mami, or even better? Wouldnt that be not just good for society but even great? (let us assume that Kyubey saves more girls like Mami than Kyouko on this contingent assumption). Mill would agree that protecting Mami's right is important for utility to preserve the general welfare. However, he would also agree that since the rights violated were inconsequential to society (and for Mami) and instead it promoted the greatest good with harm to no one, then it has served its purpose to serve the greatest good.
 
Let us set aside Mami's case for now and let us examine the accusation of Kyubey's deception. Critics and detractors have objected to Kyubey's practices on attaining victims for his scam and would accuse Kyubey of lying to get its goal. As always, Kyubey would disagree with them. I dont have to tell you what Bentham's side would be regarding on lying, since he wouldn't see a problem to this as long as Kyubey's action maximizes happiness (eg: save the universe). But what about on Mill's side of utilitarianism? What would be Mill's view on lying?
 
<b>I cannot tell a lie, you will fail Kyoko.</b>
 
Let us picture this scenario. Kyubey is chasing down Madoka and it is seeking her location, it arrives to Homura's residency but before Homura gets to fill that furry alien with bullets, Kyubey asks if Homura has seen Madoka. Prior to Kyubey's arrival, Madoka has sought refuge within Homura's home and she is hiding. On this situation, Mill would say that lying is ok because it serves to the greatest good, to protect a girl from Kyubey. To Mill, lying is ok as long as it saves lives and serves its purpose to the greatest good. While lying is deceitful, it has some good uses. And as long as the lie harms no one, then there shouldn't be any problem. But what about when Kyubey uses lying to save the universe? Wouldnt that also be for the greatest good? No, it wouldn't be. Kyubey would have violated the liberty of individual girls by forcing them into contracts under false pretense, and by using falsehood and deception, Kyubey has tainted the utility and quality of the greater good. The problem with this assumption, is that it believes that Kyubey would lie, cheat, and steal to attain his goal when in facts it is the opposite. Let us first try to understand Kyubey's "deception" and determine if there is some ground for such accusation.
 
Observers would notice three things about Kyubey. Whenever it seeks a contract it would only give a basic information regarding what the job entails; when someone ask a question that cold unravel the true nature of the Puella Magi System, Kyubey would tried to give a satisfactory answer that doesn't divulge too much information; and sometimes when someone wants an honest information from Kyubey, it would divulge answers that could be interpreted differently that, strictly speaking, could be misleading ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqzW0eHzDSQ&feature=relmfu a misleading truth]). The problem here is that none of this proves that Kyubey has ever lied. It is true that Kyubey has omitted information whenever it suited its purpose, it is also true that Kyubey divulged information with the prospect of influencing events to his favor, and that it tried to hide the facts by being vague or evasive without being false. But, was Kyubey a liar? Was Kyubey maliciously deceiving girl to his advantage? In other words, there is a difference between being purposely deceitful and another is using misleading truths (without being false or lying) in the hope that it would be incorrectly interpreted on Kyubey's favor. 
 
Let us start with Sayaka as an example. In [[Episode 2]], Sayaka asks Kyubey what are Witches and how are they any different from mahou shoujo. Kyubey's response was simple yet clever, if a mahou shoujo is born from wishes then witches are born from curses. So a mahou shoujo spreads hope while a Witch spreads despair. Nowhere in this sentence is Kyubey lying, technically Kyubey is not only telling the truth but it briefly gives a glimpse to the Puella Magi System. Of course, you have to read between the lines and be a bit clever to realize it but to anyone unfamiliar with the system wouldn't even give much of a second thought. At that moment if Sayaka had pressed further the issue, who knows how far could Kyubey could have avoid telling the whole truth. But sadly Sayaka didn't, so in effect as long as they fail to ask the right questions, it is not Kyubey's fault.
 
Let us look to another example regarding Kyubey's clever way to influence a situation by telling a misleading (but carefully prepared) truth. In [[Episode 9]], Kyoko asks Kyubey if there is a way to get Sayaka's Soul Gem back. Kyubey responds that it doesnt know of any known method. We all know that Kyubey is using a careful evasion not to divulge its opinion, but at the same time tries to divulge the truth. Kyoko not wanting to give up asks Kyubey if are there things that even Kyubey doesnt know. Kyubey replies that it doesnt know everything that there is to know. It acknowledges that the nature of magic defies logic and that it wouldn't be surprising if something absurd did came out of it (let us not forget, Kyubey makes the impossible possible). Kyoko takes Kyubey's response as acknowledging that there is a possibility to her hopes. However, that is a misleading truth. Kyubey does acknowledge that magic defies logic, that what Kyoko would try to attempt has never been tried before. But Kyubey also knows that what Kyoko is suggesting is impossible and would never succeed as it "defies logic"; and even if for some absurd miracle something did happen, the odds of it are astronomical. Of course, Kyubey doesn't tell her that directly, instead it uses misleading truths and facts to confuse Kyoko so she would reach the wrong conclusion. If you read between the lines, Kyubey is saying that what Kyoko is attempting is foolish and impossible, but Kyubey also adds that magic belongs to the realm of the impossible and that its nature is not well understood (but I am certain that Kyubey is betting that logic would prevail). Whatever conclusion Kyoko ever arrives to, is not Kyubey's fault. Since Kyubey would respond that it has only given her the information that she needed to reach the right conclusion. If Kyoko misinterpreted Kyubey's information and instead got the wrong impression, then the fault lies with Kyoko. After all, Kyubey told her the truth and tries to neither encourage nor discourage Kyoko on her conclusion. Kyubey does admit that it usually stops a pointless sacrifice (don't get the wrong idea, Kyubey just doesn't like to lose girls too early before their emotions can be harvested) but in this case it didn't stop her. According to Kyubey, losing Kyoko has a great advantage to further utility. Now, critics would point out that Kyubey killed Kyoko by not discouraging her to stop her foolish plan. It is true, Kyubey did not tried to stop her, instead it just allowed the situation to unfold itself. But here is what it gets tricky, according to Mill people have the freedom to do whatever they want as long as they are not hurting others ''"Government may not interfere with individual liberty in order to protect a person from himself, or to impose the majority's beliefs about how best to live"''("Justice", pg. 49). In essence, Kyubey was allowing Kyoko to exercise her right to recklessly endanger herself. Kyubey knows well the dangers ahead for Kyoko, but since it is Kyoko's right to get herself killed, why interfere? After all, Kyoko knows very well how dangerous it is to meddle with a Witch, she is a veteran mahou shoujo so she already knows the risks already. If Kyoko wanted to risk her life for an impossible task, that was her right and her freedom. Now some critics would say that Kyubey should had at least warn her and tell her the whole truth of the matter without using such a misleading method. Here is what Utilitarianism tell us, first of all, Kyubey has the right and liberty to discard and tell any information in any way it wants it, Kyubey can be directly honest and get to the point or deliver the truth in such a way that it could be misinterpreted (as long as Kyubey's words are truthful). Kyubey would also add that it did warn Kyoko on its own way, Kyubey told her that what Kyoko was attempting has never been done in the past and in Kyubey's mind that was an enough warning. What Kyoko does after that is still Kyoko's responsibility. In the end, the fact remains that Kyubey is not attempting to tell a lie but it is attempting to tell the truth in a way that makes it the listeners responsibility to discern the correct conclusion. To force Kyubey to tell Kyoko the whole truth would be a violation of Kyubey's liberty. Also, Kyubey is not harming Kyoko by not telling her the directly the truth. Instead, it is Kyoko who does the harming by not correctly deciphering Kyubey's information. Kyubey would suggest that nowhere at any time it harmed Kyoko, it was in fact Oktavia who did most of the harming, because Kyoko was too dumb to realize that what she was attempting to do was impossible, and even more dumber for not reading between the lines what Kyubey was telling her. In Kyubey's words, it would say that it never lied, it withhold information because they never asked further, and if anyone felt deceived, it is their fault for misunderstanding Kyubey's words (words that were always truthful). For those who say that Kyubey is deceptive, they are correct but for a different reason that critics would like to believe. Kyubey was hoping its words would be misinterpreted (I don't doubt that was its goal) while still honoring the values of honesty and veracity. That's what frustrates Kyubey's critics. It is true that Kyube is hoping to mislead its victims, but at the same time Kyubey is honoring the moral laws within the boundaries by hoping the victims will believe the truth it is saying and the fact that it is communicating. If the victims misunderstand the wrods and the message that Kyubey is communicating, it is not Kyubey's fault. And for that reason one can say that Kyubey is hoping to mislead while at the same time honoring the moral laws without telling a lie. Yes, Kyubey is deceptive but he/she is not a liar.<ref>I would like to make it clear that this is a [[wikipedia:Categorical_imperative|categorical imperative]] from a Kantian philosophy regarding "telling a lie", it is defined as a way of evaluating motivations for action (See, [[Talk:Madoka_Kaname|"Madoka and Minding her Motive"]]). Utilitarianism is considered a [[wikipedia:Consequentialism|consequentialism]], meaning that the moral worth of an action is determined by its resulting outcome. These two bands of philosophies are completely different from each other. But I thought Kant's explanation was much more beautiful and elegant regarding the difference between telling a lie and using a "misleading truth". If Kyubey was as smart as a [[wikipedia:Vulcan_(Star_Trek)|logical Vulcan]], I believe it would use the Kantian method of telling the truth.</ref>
 
And before anyone objects by saying that Kyubey never warned the girls that becoming a mahou shoujo means getting your soul ripped from your body, we have to look back at [[Episode 2]]. When Mami was giving her introductions to Madoka and Sayaka, Kyubey informed the girls that it can grant any wish, but that the price of that wish is the production of the Soul Gem and fighting Witches. Let us disregard the obvious fact that the word ''"Soul"'' is in the name of the magical jewelry; if you read between the lines, Kyubey is telling the girls (in its subtle way) that by granting them one wish it would create a Soul Gem as its price for it. Kyubey may not spell it directly, but even with this subtle information, anyone smart enough would be able to conclude that someone's soul would be ripped to create that magical gem (at least on Kyubey's mind). In other words, Kyubey did warn and inform the girls about how Soul Gems are created, they were just not clever enough to decipher that information. 
 
<b>Bentham, the true monster. Mill, impractical idealism.</b>
 
After studying and reviewing the information, we can conclude without a doubt that Kyubey faithfully follows a Utilitarian philosophy. But it is also clear to mention that Kyubey's utilitarianism seems to be a mixture of Bentham and Mill's thinking. Sometimes Kyubey would swing to one formula of utility and then swing back when it is convenient to do so. But it remains mostly on Mill's side most of the time, with the exception of when the whole planet is devastated. One could presume to suggest that Kyubey's thinking is not "The End Justifies the Means" as much as "Using Mill's Means to attain Bentham's End". Let me be the first say that Kyubey's Utilitarianism shares some similar values to Bentham and Mill. However, because Kyubey doesn't follow one principle of utility but a different version, we have to then assume that it is neither and both for two reasons. First, Kyubey is restrained by the rules that the alien race has laid on him. If Kyubey believed Bentham's utility wholly, it would disregard their rules and force Madoka into a contract regardless of her will or the rules itself. Instead, Kyubey tries to remain within the parameters and at the same time achieve the goals given to it. Second, if Kyubey had any respect for Mill's notion of Utilitarianism, then Kyubey has failed. Mill ideal version of utility is that with time the values of Utilitarianism would create progressive thinking and moral decisions based on utility that would allow the creation of the greater good. If Kyubey tried to follow Mill's ideal version of Utility, he would be the less productive Incubator in the whole Universe; at that rate the end of the universe would be guaranteed. But it isn't so much as Kyubey failed Mill as Mill failed Kyubey. The problem with Mill's thinking is that it tries to maintain the principles of utility and the moral values of individual liberty at the same time. Critics have blasted Mill's utility as being naive and contradictory to Utilitarianism, some would suggest that Mill's formula violates the principle of Utility all together. Mill has proven that it can humanize utilitarianism when it adds a moral ideal of human dignity into the formula, but those ideals are independent of utility itself. Mill's formula would never achieve the greatest good that reflects the highest virtue of human value as long as it tries to maintain it within the realm of utility.
 
Since Kyubey is from a very advance alien race, I have to assume Kyubey's utility shares similarities to our own understanding of Utility, but at the same time it is also unique because it transcends Bentham's and Mill's thinking, thus making it into a third form of Utilitarian thinking that shares some of their values but for a different end than Bentham or Mill would conclude. This is, of course, speculation.
 
It is very clear that many critics and detractors have accused Kyubey of being evil, a liar, and a manipulator for good measure. But I would like to point out that they have failed to understand Kyubey and his way of thinking to demonstrate why Kyubey is wrong. Their views have been mostly on the human side of the issue. Failing to see it from Kyubey's perspective to understand Kyubey. We have to remember that it is not easy to judge an alien race that we know little about, not even their moral values, but for the sake of argument we have to at least try. According to Homura, she doesn't think Kyubey thinks itself to be evil or cruel, she believes Kyubey just have a different perspective regarding morality so it fails to understand human values. However, that doesn't mean Homura trust Kyubey or believes she can reason with it. But let us be clear, by understanding Kyubey's utilitarianism I am not trying to justify its action. Instead, I am trying to comprehend Kyubey's point of view and perspective. What I have learned from Kyubey's point of view is that the issues regarding if Kyubey is evil or not is moot. What we should be concerned is the way Kyubey sees the world, which is much more disturbing and terrifying, and the worst part is that people who think the same way as Kyubey don't think they are evil either or that they are doing anything wrong.
 
<b>Kyubey: CEO of Entropy, INC.</b>
 
If I had to describe Kyubey from any organism from our world, I would say that no organism exist that is similar to Kyubey. The closest we have is a human being. But even at that it would fail to describe Kyubey accurately, because Kyubey shares many differences than similarities with humans. Just like humans, Kyubey demonstrates high intelligence and faculties similar to humans, but unlike humans it lacks emotions, it cannot die but instead spawn new bodies, and is able to grant abilities that itself cannot exercise or posses.
 
So instead, rather than imagine Kyubey from any known living organism I would like to think Kyubey is similar to a non-living entity that is not just similar to Kyubey, but it paints a perfect picture of what Kyubey is. This non-living entity seems to follow Kyubey's philosophy regarding utilitarianism that is neither Bentham's or Mill's version. Like Kyubey, it also has a goal to maximize utility for its own advantage.
 
Let us remember that an alien race created an artificial entity that is highly intelligent with no emotions, these aliens bestowed upon Kyubey certain abilities and limitations but also parameters known as "rules". Kyubey is assigned with a very simple mission and duty: follow the rules stated by the alien race (it cannot force humans into a contract. It also means it cannot also lie but it is allowed the flexibility to limit his information as long as it is truthful), maximize the collection of energy to repair the universe without violating the given parameters, and protect the girls until they reach to their maximum potential. Now, let us imagine that Kyubey is not an artificial organism created by an alien race, let us think of Kyubey as a Corporation created by a group of business people. "Kyubey", as the company is known, has a business mandate: follow the national and international laws regarding trade and finances set up by an entity known as "the government". "Kyubey" as a company is not allowed to exercise illegal activities, but the laws are flexible and deregulated enough to allow for a company to pursue interests that would benefit a free market society in a very competitive market, if it wishes to survive it would take advantage of the loosened rules (in other words, as long as it is withing the boundaries of the law and it is not illegal, the company is protected from liability); and "Kyubey" must maximize company profits in order to not only benefit shareholders but to also avoid a bankruptcy or being taken over by the competition. 
 
I am certain some of you would think that I am overreaching with my thinking but let us just assume that my assertion is possible for the moment. One day "Kyubey" is taken to court and it stands accused of several crimes. The proceedings state that the company has violated several laws and disregarded the rights of their employees. The first criminal accusation would be false advertisement and failure to disclose information. Sayaka, the accuser, would declare that she would have never made a contract if she had known that her soul would be ripped from her body and that she would become a witch. As stated before, what Sayaka calls false advertisement, Kyubey would defend himself by stating that Sayaka failed to "read between the lines" and if she didn't understand the conditions of the contract she should have contacted a lawyer of her own. The other issue regarding becoming a Witch, "Kyubey" would explain that Sayaka had more than enough information to make an educated decision regarding the risks of the job. According with the company, Sayaka knew the risks of becoming a mahou shoujo, what happens after the facts (or in this case, death) bears no consequence, nor does it make any difference regarding occupational hazard and safety (in other words, knowing that Sayaka would become a Witch during her period of employment would not have prevented her from becoming one). As an example, let us say that "Kyubey" is a weapons manufacturing and they employ Sayaka to create missiles. Sayaka knows what missiles are and that they are used during military campaigns. However, Sayaka believes that the missiles would be use to kill evil people. One day she learns that one of the missiles she helped to construct was used to blow up a building that was suspected to house enemy combatants but instead it killed innocent civilians. While it is true that "Kyubey" sold the missile to the military. There is no way that the company could have predicted that it would be used to cause innocent casualties; the company is aware of the possibility of such scenario. But we have to remember this future event or circumstance is possible but cannot be predicted with certainty. According to "Kyubey", becoming a witch is not a certaintity but just a possible outcome, and in any case, it is no different that death anyway. So knowing or not knowing for the sake of safety and health on Sayaka's part makes no difference. The job comes with the same risks anyway, nothing has changed.
 
But "Kyubey" would state that divulging sensitive information regarding "company secrets" would be detrimental for company morale. In fact, by not divulging sensitive information that would be a hindrance for employees to maximize their potentials, the company and employees like Sayaka would be able to achieve their potential without any distractions and obstacles. By known sensitive information, employees like Sayaka would lose focus and increase the potential of creating a hostile environment.
 
As one final act "Kyubey" would state that as a company, it has a responsibility to their shareholders by maximizing its profits. People may question a company's policy and its methods of obtaining profits, but as long as no legal laws have been broken, then no crime has been committed. But much more importantly, "Kyubey" would state that as a company they are obligated to make no exceptions nor reverse their company policy just because a mahou shoujo feels like what they are doing is wrong. After all, "Kyubey" is a company not a charity. It is true that Kyubey does provide an exchange for products and services, so it is not "free", there is a price for it. If Kyubey were to grant wishes for free (without collecting souls or despair energy), not only there would be a quick depletion of energy, but their company would go bankrupt. The reason Kyubey collects souls is that they need them to create more despair energy, the more despair energy Kyubey creates the safer the universe becomes and they can use that same energy to be reinvested to hire new and more mahou shoujo. So Kyubey as an industry does not only provide products and services, but as a company they are also protecting the universe and reinvesting their energy to provide wishes and employment to more girls. And what about the benefits that many girls have obtainted? Girls like Mami were given a second life, otherwise she would be dead. Kyouko was able to avoid destitution and hunger thanks to her wish. And even Sayaka was able to get the opportunity to heal a friend. Can anyone complain that Kyubey's services are not essential to the community and society? Kyubey as a company has saved lives, provided food and housing opportunity for the destitute, and healed incurable diseases and physical disabilities; making society and the human race more productive and better.
 
And as a business, the company has an obligation to be financially sound. But much more importantly, "Kyubey" is an important member of the community. After all, society and the whole human race have profited from Kyubey's products, and services. Kyubey's presence on Earth is essential for human progress. Without Kyubey's interference humanity would never have achieved and advanced in the areas of art, culture, history, medicine, philosophy, science, technology, and other progresses. In fact, without Kyubey, humans would still be naked and living in caves. Before anyone can accuse the company of being selfish and greedy, perhaps humanity should asks themselves if they are in a better position to be self-righteous against the company after benefiting from so much?
 
<b>Why is Kyubey wrong.</b>
 
I would like to add one last comparison regarding Kyubey as a corporation and the philosophy of utility. As I have stated before, Kyubey used Mill's means to attain Bentham's end. What I mean is that a Corporation would try to stay within the boundaries of the law to maximize its profit and size, but it would also use Kyubey's method to eliminate its competition and achieve Bentham's end, which would be either be the elimination of all competition or achieving a total monopoly on the market. After all, the purpose of a company is to prolong its existence. Just like Kyubey wants to prolong the existence of the universe. But as we have observed, Kyubey's approach and solution is quite unnerving. Specially when we are asked to accept the suffering of little girls as a form of payment to enjoy the fruits of past labors and sufferings. But I would like to add one last thought. One of the reasons that utilitarianism has it critics is its attempt to use market values to achieve a noble and moral choice. This is not just reserved only to corporations; government entities and individuals attempt to do the same everyday. Not only does utilitarianism fails in its noble and moral goal,  but during the process we have probably noticed that humanity and the human soul has been reduced as a form of currency. Think about it, Kyubey would not accept no other form of payment but a human soul, something that it is considered to be sacred and holy (depending of your beliefs). Now suddenly, this alien creature decides that humans souls are no different than commodities to be traded. This utilitarian attempt to reduce all and everything as a commodity, including a human soul and the right of sale of it, is a degradation of our humanity that is being packaged as goods. It loses its moral value and dignity in the marketing process.<ref>''"Certain modes of valuation are appropriate to certain goods and practices. In the case of commodities, such as cars and toasters, the proper way of valuing them is to use them, or to make them and sell them for profit. But it's a mistake to treat all things as if they were commodities. It would be wrong, for example, to treat human beings as commodities, mere things to be bought and sold. That's because human beings are persons worthy of respect, not objects to be used. Respect and use are two different modes of valuation."'' Michael Sandel, "Justice" (pg 96).</ref> This causes us to rethink what makes us human and the values we hold as a civilized society. The reason that we hate and fear Kyubey is not that it is evil; the reason that we hate and fear Kyubey is what it represents. If a human soul can be reduced as a mere currency, or resource, or commodity (or a battery), and we are willing to emulate Kyubey's methods and values; then we as humans have failed to realized and recognized our own dignity in all. Because Kyubey may be an alien from a different world, but its values are no different from ours once we close examine it.  
 
<b>Closing</b>
I would like to reiterate that this is my personal interpretation and opinion regarding Kyubey's utilitarianism and its moral value. This is not an attempt to put words on the creators of the anime series but an attempt to grasp a better understanding of it. I have used resources like the anime series, interviews, and Michael Sandel's book "Justice" to attain a better comprehension and analysis of the Kyubey character. The views of this essay are my own --[[User:Mutopis|Mutopis]] 11:08, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
 
<b>Notes:</b>
 
<references/>
 
<s><b>Puellae Magi: a PR Illusion and the Issue of False Interpretation.</b></s>

Latest revision as of 10:16, 27 September 2016

Redirection

Requesting name change to Kyubey. reason : [1] Mic2070 10:38, 24 January 2011 (CST)

Anyone object this? Otherwise I'm going to move it. --0x99 19:53, 24 January 2011 (CST)
Go for it --MomoiroKakarichou 15:02, 26 January 2011 (CST)

I'll just leave this here ◕‿‿◕

◕ ω ◕

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

Shouldn't we add somewhere that he uses telepathy?

I only today realized that the page was renamed from Kyuubey to Kyubey recently. Just finished updating the spelling everywhere. --KFYatek 16:44, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Multiple Kyubeys/Respawning Kyubey

I remember there was quite a lot of speculah as to whether there is only one Kyubey, or multiple 'Kyubey' clones. Since it's mentionned in the 'Obervsations' section, I wondered if that theory has been mentionned in one of the articles? If so, it should be a good idea to add a link here. --Homerun-chan 21:23, 24 February 2011 (UCT)

Maybe I overlooked it, but I couldn't found any article stating about respawning QB. --0x99 22:06, 24 February 2011 (UCT)
I'm not sure about the respawning, but I think mutiple instances of QBe has been discussed at some point (hence the 'Kyubey Army' image macro). It may not be on the wiki though. I'll look for it in depths tomorrow if nobody's done it before, I have stuff to do now (like sleeping, for example) --Homerun-chan 22:11, 24 February 2011 (UCT)
What's this about him being a cat? I don't think he looks like a cat. I think he looks like a little demonspawn.

--

"Familiar"

I'm not really sure where the term "familiar" comes from in his description? --Fallacies 02:30, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Incidentally, Kyubey is the romanization of the name of a restaurant in Ginza, Tokyo. --Fallacies 03:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Where's that "familiar" you're talking about in this article? --0x99 03:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
The diff before I edited it, at the top. I replaced it with Mahou no Shisha, per the description on his official chara profile. --Fallacies 03:16, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Also, in plot synopsis on main page, the "there exist familiars" part obviously refers to Kyubey and possibly others of his kind. --KFYatek 03:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Edited. Though, again, I'm not sure where "familiars" came from. It seems like it's always been there, but nobody ever noticed. In any case, it's not really accurate. --Fallacies 03:20, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Energy

the article states that he needs energy for the earth. But as i understood he is an alien who needs energy for his planet and stores the energy that get´s released while using magic or transform into witches.

Anonymous: In actuality, he needs energy for the entire universe. Even though the show's understanding of thermodynamics is flawed (the amount of usable energy in the universe will decrease over time, but not the total amount of energy), we can't treat Earth or any other planet as a closed system; thus, when Kyuubey says "sekai" (I think that's the word he used?), he's almost definitely referring to the universe as a whole.

--picture- the mangaka of kuroshitsuji actually made a fanart crossover of kyubey and sebastian http://d-6th.com/blog/images/110217_qseba.jpg quite ironic since sebastian also has a faustian pact with ciel and will rip his (ciel´s) soul of as payment to fullfill his wish

Contract

Fight with witches it's a part of the contract? Or contract mean only become to puella magi? A 06:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Kyubey is incredibly vague about the contract, so it's unclear if puellae magi must fight witches outside of ensuring their own survival (as they need Grief Seeds to counteract the corruption caused by the use of magic and/or the build-up of negative emotions). I suppose a girl could contract, get her wish, and never fight witches, but she would likely end up a witch herself very soon. Momoism 18:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


Gender

  • On the Blu-ray commentary it was pointed by Gen Urobuchi that Kyubey has no gender.
    • Does that mean that the references to Kyuubee on this wiki should be neutralised, ze/zie/sie instead of he/she? Might even help more people become aware of gender neutrality among humans! - [2] 08:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
The problem with that is they aren't in common dictionaries and aren't standard English. KM 09:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Not to mention it would be a nightmare, since we will have to hunt down every page that mentions Kyubey as "he". Personally I would let it be as it is since the girls think of Kyubey as a "he" even if "it" thinks of itself as being genderless...--Mutopis 10:06, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Kyubey refers himself using "Boku" so i think he consider himself as male Kimidori 10:29, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Only in "human terms" to make it easy for the girls when they are addressing to him. I dont think Kyubey thinks of iself personally as a "he"... --Mutopis 10:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Isn't "boku" kind of gender-neutral? I mean, I was taught that it can be used by anyone and tends to be the default in gender-neutral song lyrics. It's pretty commonly used this way in anime and manga. --CrownClown 02:05, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
In recent times, they grudgingly allow it (like the use of a universal "he"), but this is unlikely to be proper Japanese. For example, Kyon, in the Haruhi light novels makes a big point of how Sasaki refers to herself with the pronoun "boku", which gives her a tomboyish feel. Iruel 03:00, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
It's proper Japanese for young people in casual situations in the real world, and is becoming more prevalent among girls around the age of Madoka and company. Anime and manga may emphasize the former status of "boku" as a male-only pronoun as a quick-and-easy way of characterization: "She uses 'boku,' so we can tell that she's a 'tomboy' without wasting a lot of time on extra dialogue!" Personal pronouns and other indicators of gentle/harsh speech are often used this way in Japanese fiction, but shouldn't be understood as indicative of how people on the street actually talk. (In normal Japanese speech, it's actually common to almost never use personal pronouns at all! "I," "you," and so on can often be inferred from context alone.) A girl who uses "boku" in the real world wouldn't necessarily be considered masculine -- it all depends on her personality and the context in which she uses it.
So far as Kyuubey is concerned, "boku" may be useful just because of the social status it implies: the standard "watashi" is slightly formal (and would put Kyuubey on the same level as the girls), "watakushi" would be too humble, and "ore" would be too harsh. Any of the less-common pronouns would lend unwanted additional flavor to Kyuubey's speech, since -- as I wrote above -- they're more often used as characterization shortcuts in fictional works. "Boku" allows Kyuubey to keep relations with the girls casual and congenial, while slightly insinuating that he's on a higher social level than them (that is, he can afford to talk down to them).
Also, CrownClown: I think "boku" tends to be used more often in song lyrics simply because it's easier to fit in, mora-wise! :D 64.89.144.110 03:13, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Fan-Video

Features Kyubey getting ripped to shreads , pretty well made. Espeon 20:53, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

When was this stated?

  • I read under the unproven theories section that Kyubey states early in the series that he cannot bring dead people back to life. I've just watched the entire series through recently, and not only did I not catch on to that, but that goes against certain events in the first audio drama and The Different Story, in which he revives a cat and Sayaka respectively. If I did in fact miss anything he might have said, would someone please point it out? McKnight
    • A friend of mine also once said that the same thing is mentioned during the final timeline, which is presumably the anime's finale, but I've re-watched that whole episode in particular just shortly afterwards, and there isn't anything said about wishes in general. McKnight