Talk:Madoka Magica Episode 10: I Won't Rely On Anyone Anymore

timelines

Are there only those listed timelines or coould it be that Homura repeated it more often, but this wasn´t shown since there weren´t many differences from the shown timelines? Judgin from what i saw the end may be that Homura repeats again since she also failed this time or Homura dies. --89.247.167.165 09:04, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

The discrepancies in Timeline 4 lead me to think that there were more timelines than what was shown. I don't think Homura's personality would change that much in only 5 timelines either. Anyway, at this point of the story, that's basically :opinions: since we can't really prove one or the other --Homerun-chan 11:49, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

The first assumption was that Timeline 4 is ep1's dream sequence, and Timeline 5 is all the previous episodes. But there are slight differences between those (see Episode 10#Continuity to previous episodes), so there is nothing certain indeed. If I haven't overlooked something, there's no part in the article which would say "there are no other timelines". --KFYatek 11:52, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

on another note: also madoka´s strong personality isn´t like to break down in 5 loops. There is the possibility that every person who is caught in the loop has another personality then in the begining (maybe that´s why kyouko helped sayaka this time but in the others not). Kyubey meanwhile can transfer his mind to his other bodies, but he can´t keep his memory over the loops so his power is also restircted in this field.  The loop story reminds me of the "Endless Eight" from Haruhi Suzumiya, were only 8 loops where shown but in reality there were 15,498 loops

At the end of Arc 1 it really is hard to say what happened as there is no conclusive evidence either way. I see that this article indicates that "Madoka dies without regrets in her heart, she remains pure and innocent in the end thus avoids the fate of becoming a witch"; however, what proof is there of this? In fact, I believe there is proof otherwise:

• No evidence of a shattered Soul Gem or her destroying her own (Granted, there is no evidence of one intact either, or if she is just out of range of it... new theory?)
• With that there are two other possible outcomes:
  • She was actually defeated in the fight as you can't die without your Soul Gem being destroyed which would indicate that the enemy would have been alive to destroy it at the end.
  • She turned into a witch as there is no visible remnant of her Soul Gem but a body is left in what we can only assume is the real world.
    • Evidence 1: Homura says that if you die in the reality marble your body is lost; hence, if she would have died her body wouldn't exist in the real world (that is if we are assuming the "reality" is the real world).
    • Evidence 2: Sayaka's body still existed because her Soul Gem turned into a witch outside of a reality marble. Now, granted it appears to have been sucked in after the transformation (as Kyouko caries it out) this would indicate that she likely would have turned into a witch and her body was not absorbed into the reality marble.

Opinions? SunnyJ 20:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Sayaka

Considering Sayaka's inferiority complex, is she actually afraid of Homura's bombs, or is she jealous of Homura's capabilities?

It's because if the bomb got hit her and the soul gem... You will guess what will happen next no~? Dandan550 04:07, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Next Episode Preview Image

Anyone have any idea who/what the three shadowy figures on the upper left corner are? The one on the left almost looks like Kyoko, but not quite. Universalperson 17:01, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Here's a guess.

Ah, thanks! The red dot on the left figure was throwing me for a loop. Though that doesn't explain what that thing on the right is. --Universalperson 21:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Couldn't it be Sayaka's cape? Guil 21:51, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Probably, but then it's somehow flying over her head at an odd angle. If it is it's just...not good art. --Universalperson 22:01, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Time-travel

However, in Episode 10, we learn that Kyuubey can only grant the ability to travel back in time. He is only part of the process to create it, so they do not posses the ability itself. The power of time travel rests only within Homura because of her wish.

When is this explained? Is it when Kyuubey talks of Homura's ability to overcome entropy? Elsa Maria 21:19, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

• According to Kyuubey Puella Magi are an anomaly that his people cannot explain, their real powers come from the girl's wishes (and curse) fueled by their emotions, so Kyuubey exclaimed that Homura's wish surpassed entropy is a statement that Kyuubey knows that time travel can reverse entropy or could also be interpreted as Kyuubey being surprised. --Mutopis 20:51, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Death of Madoka

So we've been shown that witches can be shot/blasted to death, and are fully destroyed while their grief seeds remain intact.

But conversely, magical girls' bodies cannot be destroyed unless their soul gem is destroyed...according to Kyubey, anyway. I'm of the opinion that the information he gives is generally unreliable, to put it mildly. (To put it bluntly, I think Kyubey is a liar and has told multiple lies thus far.)

But let's work with these two rules for now.

So, in timeline 1, how exactly did Madoka die? Her body seemed to be intact... I didn't look for her soul gem but I suppose it must have been shattered by Walpurgia somehow? I didn't see how Mami died, either.

In timeline 3, what exactly did Homura shoot to mercy kill Madoka? Did she shoot her newly-transformed grief seed, or just shoot her still-transforming body? If Homura just shot Madoka's body to kill her, could she have possibly kept her grief seed from that timeline? If she shot the grief seed... well, how would shooting a grief seed affect a witch? I don't think that's been shown up to now.

• In timeline 1, Mami and Madoka has their Soul Gems broken. In timeline 3, Homura shot Madoka's Soul Gem which was NOT yet a Grief Seed.

-The reason a magical girl's body can't be destroyed is that the soul gem can use magic to regenerate it eventually, as long as it has access to enough magic power. In TL1, it seems like Walpurgis shattered both of their soul gems offscreen, and Madoka and Walpurgis both dealt fatal damage to each other. What would happen when you shoot a grief seed is an interesting question, and I don't think we have any information about that yet.

I would like to know what information is there that indicates that Soul Gems were destroyed in TL1? I see evidence that likely this is not the case:

• In TL1 they did not know that their soul's were actually in the Soul Gems (Kyuubey never told them as referenced by the surprised when Homura finds out in TL2) so knowing to destroy their own Soul Gem before they turned into a Witch is out of the question.
• Second, its stated by Homura earlier in the series that if you die in the Reality Marble your body never returns to the real world; so if they both killed each other her body would not have returned to the real world as it would have been destroyed along with the reality marble.

-This assumes that the wrecked world -which is different than the Reality Marble that Wapluguris is fought in- is the real world which it has to be as the Reality Marble is destroyed when the Witch dies as shown in each episode.

This only leaves the possibility that she ultimately did turn into a witch and her witch form is likely off screen and Homura didn't see this occur; however, there isn't any proof to directly support this; however, there is proof to support the other outcomes didn't happen (unless we want to go with the idea that her body is simply out of range of her Soul Gem and her body was just in it's lifeless state).

-In timeline 1 Mami's and Madoka's Soul Gems are never seen, implying they were broken. It's mentioned in episode 7 that magical girls can basically only die if their soul gems are broken; Kyubey says that's why he removes their souls in the first place, so they can regenerate their bodies even if they do suffer a lot of damage!

- That is true that they can only die if their soul gems are destroyed; however, just because you do not see them does not imply they were broken. Additionally, if they were broken the most likely point in time they would have been broken would have been during Walpurgis's Night. Assuming that they both killed each other at the same time (destroying the witch / destroying Madoka's Soul Gem) her body would have been at that point still in the Reality Marble. As stated in Ep4 you don't leave a corpse behind if you die in the reality marble so the fact that her corpse still exists in the real world the likeliness of her Soul Gem being destroyed is lower than the likeliness of her having turned into a witch.

It appears that Walpurgis Night is capable of existing outside of her barrier for reasons currently unknown; this should have been obvious as far back as episode 1 where Madoka LEAVES what is obviously a witch's barrier and enters the real world on top of a giant tree. And yes, not seeing the Soul Gems implies they were broken. If either of them became witches before the 2nd timeline, Homura would have known about it. Homura only learned magical girls could turn into witches at the end of the second timeline, when Madoka's Soul Gem became a Grief Seed right before her eyes.