Talk:Main Page: Difference between revisions
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:I think there should be a page for all characters together, or at least a character page with a compilation of witches with their cards. If we break apart the character information too much it will become difficult to transit between medias. It goes like this: | :I think there should be a page for all characters together, or at least a character page with a compilation of witches with their cards. If we break apart the character information too much it will become difficult to transit between medias. It goes like this: | ||
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Characters | Characters | ||
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--PMKM-- | --PMKM-- | ||
Same as the above | Same as the above | ||
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=== Gallery cleanup === | === Gallery cleanup === | ||
Revision as of 19:36, 19 March 2012
Previous discussions are archived at:
- Talk:Main Page/Archive 1 (January 18, 2011–February 27, 2011)
- Talk:Main Page/Archive 2 (February 28, 2011-April 25, 2011)
- Talk:Main Page/Archive 3 (April 25, 2011-March 14, 2012)
Wiki reorganization
Since we now have more contents than when we started a year ago, I think it's now the time to reorganize part of series into its own section. My suggestion:
Main page | |- Madoka Magica | |- Madoka Magica Characters | |- Madoka Magica Episodes | |- Madoka Magica Theories | |- Madoka Magica Observations | |- Madoka Magica Soundtrack | `- ... | |- Madoka Magica Portable | |- Madoka Magica Portable Characters | |- Madoka Magica Portable Story | `- ... | |- Madoka Magica Mobage | `- ... | |- Oriko Magica | |- Oriko Magica Characters | |- Oriko Magica Chapters | `- ... | |- Kazumi Magica | |- Kazumi Magica Characters | |- Kazumi Magica Chapters | `- ... | |- Deciphering the runes |- Translated official documents `- ...
...with each section has a footer navbox template similar to the one in Wikipedia (like in wikipedia:Bakemonogatari#External_links). Any page that don't need its own section goes into flat page as usual (e.g. maybe the Mobage stuff). This would allow contents to expand more easily and make more room for future contents (Movie, possible spinoffs, etc.). Thoughts? --0x99 10:36, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- I would prefer a page for Translated Official Documents as well as the Translated Official Miscellaneous. It's fine to keep it under Products. There's overlap between the two anyways. More than Runes, in any case. --randomanon 10:55, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, do you mean section for each documents?
Translated official documents |- NewType 2999/12 `- ...
- But isn't this already the way it works? --0x99 11:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm asking for two links. One to Translated Official Documents and another to Translated Official Miscellaneous to be posted at the same level. They can be kept under Products. Right now, we only have a link to the first one. randomanon 12:18, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Ah OK. Yes, we can do that. --0x99 12:27, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, thanks. And it can be "Documents" and "Documents Other" or something to keep the title short. --randomanon 16:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- I added it as Official Materials in the sidebar for now, should rename the page during reorganization (so it doesn't looks like a subpage of Documents that way). --0x99
- Yes, thanks. And it can be "Documents" and "Documents Other" or something to keep the title short. --randomanon 16:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Ah OK. Yes, we can do that. --0x99 12:27, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm asking for two links. One to Translated Official Documents and another to Translated Official Miscellaneous to be posted at the same level. They can be kept under Products. Right now, we only have a link to the first one. randomanon 12:18, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- But isn't this already the way it works? --0x99 11:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- If we agree on this, please feel free to start breaking Puella Magi Madoka Magica Portable into multiple subsections (possibly omit the "Puella Magi" part, just Madoka Magica Portable to keep it short and easy to type). Ping me if you need anything (extensions, etc.) --0x99 18:36, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
- I think there should be a page for all characters together, or at least a character page with a compilation of witches with their cards. If we break apart the character information too much it will become difficult to transit between medias. It goes like this:
Characters -Magical Girls- --Puella Magi Madoka Magica/PMMM Portable-- *Here comes the table with Madoka, Homura, Mami, Sayaka, Kyoko and you know who. --Mobage-- *Table with Komachi, Clair, etc... --Puella Magi Oriko Magika-- *Table with Oriko, Kirika and Yuma --Puella Magi Kazumi Magika-- *Table with PMKM cast -Witches- --PMMM Witches-- *Table with anime witches --PMMM Portable Witches-- *Table with game witches --Mobage Witches-- *Table with mobager witches --PMOM Witches-- *Table with PMOM witches --Kazumi Witches-- *Table with Kazumi witches -Support Characters- --PMMM/Portable-- *Table with family, classmates and others --Mobage-- Same as the above --PMOM-- Same as the above --PMKM-- Same as the above
Gallery cleanup
Also it might also make sense to cleanup gallery with this reorganization. Character pages are too image-heavy and we're nearly hitting 1TB transfer each month (we used around ~800GB of bandwidth last month). Any input on how to deal with this is always welcome (i.e. what to delete and what to keep). --0x99 15:56, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm glad you're addressing it. I've felt for a while now too many pages have excessive pics in the galleries. I would strongly suggest deleting most of the ones that's easily obtainable from another static source like pixiv, danbooru, etc. unless there's a compelling reason for it. For example, we don't need a dozen pics of Homura with weapons. Just a couple or few will make that point. There's also lots of screenshots that are posted that don't really seem to have a point. We have ten of them in Homura's gallery of just different expressions. Why? If screenshots are posted, they should illustrate a point. For example, I might include three of hers with Moemura, timelooping Homura and ribbon Homura to show contrast in changing expression. People should really think about what they post and why, not just post for the sake of it. --randomanon 16:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- What about those 2ch/2chan photoshopped images of magazine illustrations? Should we keep it or delete them also? --0x99 16:11, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe post one of each illustration, and put the rest in a zip for download. Not sure why, but they seem really popular. I get the same download counts for them as I do doujins. Also, maybe get more selective about gifs as well. I doubt we need as many as we have. Keep the best ones and provide the rest in zips. --randomanon 16:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, maybe we could make a "photoshopped images of official illustrations" section and dump all of them to it in a organized manner. (Thumbnail of original, then list photoshopped images, and maybe the first time they appeared, etc.) Finding sources would be very hard though. --0x99 16:22, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- It might be a good idea to have image gallery pages for a bunch of different categories. If it's just "don't post more than necessary" we'd have to constantly police people who think posting images cleans their soul gems, but if there's gallery pages they can be directed over there and have fun without filling up high traffic pages. So at the bottom of Homura's page there'd be a text link to Gallery/Homura. KM 20:48, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Ultimately, that would not resolve the image-heavy pages/1TB data transfer issue 0x99 is talking about. All you're doing is moving pics to a new page, and it's only a matter of time before they become extremely image-heavy. In fact, dedicating blank pages to image galleries would probably only encourage more image postings. A certain amount of self-restraint makes sense. There's 4chan and other image boards for that purpose, no need to treat the wiki like one. I think the merchandise page could use a look through as well. Many of the pics taken of say a figma from various angles isn't necessary, since the link to purchase it displays all those pics. It's redundant and that page is becoming very long, as new things are constantly being added. --randomanon 21:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Isn't the data transfer the result of lots of images being on pages that are getting heavy traffic for the non-image content? If the gallery gets a tiny fraction of the views the character pages get, bandwidth use would drop. Then again, the image board could be used as a gallery. As for merchandise, along with fanworks, those are really long to scroll through, and could be split up by category, with each main page being an overview/index. Are there stats on what percentage of bandwidth use is coming from each section? KM 21:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Unfortunately there's no detailed stats available. Until the recent CloudFront migration, we stored images on a bulk hosting to reduce bandwidth costs (which only has total bandwidth usage available). It works fine until we exceed the 600GB/month cap. Then I migrated to CloudFlare which cache image files and only report total bandwidth usage. I'm not sure if CF has any kind of bandwidth caps, but cleanup any unused or unnecessary images is always better in a long run (backup cost, and such.)
- I think posting non-informative image dump in something like Walpurgischan might be a better idea, since I can implement long caching there without having to worry about expiration (since there's no file versioning) and we can also avoid polluting wiki namespace that way. --0x99 00:22, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
- Isn't the data transfer the result of lots of images being on pages that are getting heavy traffic for the non-image content? If the gallery gets a tiny fraction of the views the character pages get, bandwidth use would drop. Then again, the image board could be used as a gallery. As for merchandise, along with fanworks, those are really long to scroll through, and could be split up by category, with each main page being an overview/index. Are there stats on what percentage of bandwidth use is coming from each section? KM 21:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Ultimately, that would not resolve the image-heavy pages/1TB data transfer issue 0x99 is talking about. All you're doing is moving pics to a new page, and it's only a matter of time before they become extremely image-heavy. In fact, dedicating blank pages to image galleries would probably only encourage more image postings. A certain amount of self-restraint makes sense. There's 4chan and other image boards for that purpose, no need to treat the wiki like one. I think the merchandise page could use a look through as well. Many of the pics taken of say a figma from various angles isn't necessary, since the link to purchase it displays all those pics. It's redundant and that page is becoming very long, as new things are constantly being added. --randomanon 21:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- It might be a good idea to have image gallery pages for a bunch of different categories. If it's just "don't post more than necessary" we'd have to constantly police people who think posting images cleans their soul gems, but if there's gallery pages they can be directed over there and have fun without filling up high traffic pages. So at the bottom of Homura's page there'd be a text link to Gallery/Homura. KM 20:48, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, maybe we could make a "photoshopped images of official illustrations" section and dump all of them to it in a organized manner. (Thumbnail of original, then list photoshopped images, and maybe the first time they appeared, etc.) Finding sources would be very hard though. --0x99 16:22, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe post one of each illustration, and put the rest in a zip for download. Not sure why, but they seem really popular. I get the same download counts for them as I do doujins. Also, maybe get more selective about gifs as well. I doubt we need as many as we have. Keep the best ones and provide the rest in zips. --randomanon 16:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
- What about those 2ch/2chan photoshopped images of magazine illustrations? Should we keep it or delete them also? --0x99 16:11, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
"Madoka Magica" reorganization plan
In case nobody disagree with this proposal, I'll made a following changes:
- Madoka Magica ← Episodes
- Move Episodes page and add few data related to the series such as Plot from Main Page. This page will have similar layout to the current Main Page but only with Madoka Magica (series) specific data and a link to each page in its section (Characters, direct link to episodes, rune translations, etc.)
- Madoka Magica Characters ← Characters
- Madoka Magica Witches ← Characters
- Either move or migrate Characters page but without characters data of other series in the franchise. Initially there should be no layout change. Separate witches into its own page.
- Madoka Magica Episode 1: As If We Met in a Dream... ← Episode 1
- Madoka Magica Episode 2: That Sounds Wonderful ← Episode 2
- Madoka Magica Episode 3: I'm Not Afraid of Anything Anymore ← Episode 3
- Madoka Magica Episode 4: Both Miracles and Magic Exist ← Episode 4
- Madoka Magica Episode 5: There's No Way I'd Regret This ← Episode 5
- Madoka Magica Episode 6: This Just Isn't Right ← Episode 6
- Madoka Magica Episode 7: Can You Face Your True Feelings? ← Episode 7
- Madoka Magica Episode 8: I'm Such a Fool ← Episode 8
- Madoka Magica Episode 9: I'll Never Allow That ← Episode 9
- Madoka Magica Episode 10: I Won't Depend on Anyone Anymore ← Episode 10
- Madoka Magica Episode 11: The Only Signpost Remaining ← Episode 11
- Madoka Magica Episode 12: My Best Friend ← Episode 12
- Simple page rename will do.
- Madoka Magica Drama CD 1: Memories of You ← Drama CD 1
- Madoka Magica Drama CD 2: Sunny Day Life ← Drama CD 2
- Madoka Magica Drama CD 3: Farewell Story ← Drama CD 3
- Page rename.
- Madoka Magica Manga ← Madoka Magica (manga)
- Madoka Magica Locations ← Locations
- Madoka Magica Trivia ← Facts and Observations
- Rename. Separate Kazumi stuff in Locations page into Kazumi Magica Locations.
- Madoka Magica Products ← Products
- Madoka Magica Merchandise ← Merchandise
- Page rename. Remove Kazumi and Oriko stuff from Products page.
- Madoka Magica Music ← Character Songs
- Madoka Magica Soundtrack ← Soundtrack
- Madoka Magica Teasers ← Teasers and Commercials
- Leave Connect, Magia, See You Tomorrow and And I'm Home intact. Make Music page list all related songs and link to individual article. For tearers, move non-Madoka stuff into its own section.
- Madoka Magica Theories ← Theories
- Madoka Magica Articles ← Articles
- Page rename.
Main Page should be repurposed for a main portal linking to each "main page" of each title in the series and some of flat page contents (e.g. Deciphering the runes, Translated Official Documents, etc.) News section will be leave intact (probably...) I still not sure what to do with Articles and Facts and Observations page. Suggestions welcome. --0x99 19:54, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
- Shouldn't it be "Music" instead of "Musics"? There is no plural form, as far as I know. Same goes for "Merchandise". --Knon 05:37, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
- Fixed! --0x99 12:11, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
- There should be a page for the each of the movies eventually, right? The first one is [scheduled for a Fall 2012 release date]. Also, we should include the Drama CDs on here somewhere.--CrownClown 02:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- Somehow I missed Drama CDs, added! And yes we will have a page for each movies. Possibly Madoka Magica Movie with each title as its subpage (e.g. Madoka Magica Movie 1: Title, Madoka Magica Movie 2: Title and Madoka Magica Movie 3: Title). --0x99 02:33, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, thanks. It looks good so far! Are we putting the Madoka Magica manga on here, also? Sorry I'm not keeping it all in one response, I just noticed it isn't here. --CrownClown 02:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm still thinking of what to do with it. Since manga version use almost exactly the same organization with the anime, we might better create manga as subpage of Madoka Magica and have a "Manga differences" subsection listing difference between manga and anime in each episode's page (e.g. Madoka Magica Episode 1: As If We Met in a Dream...#Manga differences). --0x99 02:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. We already have a Manga Differences page, so we can just copy/paste from there. Only problem would be where to put the images that are from the manga version that have no real place on episode pages. I guess we could always have a main manga page for it, keep the images there, and link to the episode that corresponds to each chapter and the manga differences subsection. --CrownClown 03:02, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm still thinking of what to do with it. Since manga version use almost exactly the same organization with the anime, we might better create manga as subpage of Madoka Magica and have a "Manga differences" subsection listing difference between manga and anime in each episode's page (e.g. Madoka Magica Episode 1: As If We Met in a Dream...#Manga differences). --0x99 02:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, thanks. It looks good so far! Are we putting the Madoka Magica manga on here, also? Sorry I'm not keeping it all in one response, I just noticed it isn't here. --CrownClown 02:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- Somehow I missed Drama CDs, added! And yes we will have a page for each movies. Possibly Madoka Magica Movie with each title as its subpage (e.g. Madoka Magica Movie 1: Title, Madoka Magica Movie 2: Title and Madoka Magica Movie 3: Title). --0x99 02:33, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- I decided to follow the UESP Wiki and make the series index page list all available contents rather than excerpt of it. It could be seen in my subpage: User:0x99/Madoka Magica. All index page of other titles will also follow this format if we decide to use it. Comments welcome. --0x99 17:25, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- RE: Mutopis from the commit summary: Have we decided regarding navigation to the Drama CD and the manga version?
- I think Drama CDs and manga version of Madoka Magica should be considered sub-content of Madoka Magica (the series) and thus they have been omitted out from the global series navigation. We can still put a quick link to both pages in the sidebar but the main purpose of the top bar is to quickly navigate between main page of many portals we (will) have (see above). --0x99 23:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
"Oriko Magica" reorganization plan
Just like Madoka Magica above:
- Oriko Magica ← Puella Magi Oriko Magica
- Page rename.
- Oriko Magica Characters ← Oriko Magica/Characters
- No longer include it into Characters page.
- Oriko Magica Chapter 1: Don't Even Think About Becoming a Magical Girl
- Oriko Magica Chapter 2: I'm Not Crying At All
- Oriko Magica Chapter 3: Love is Infinitely Finite
- Oriko Magica Chapter 4: I'll Never Forgive You
- Oriko Magica Chapter 5: That's What I'm Here For
- Oriko Magica Chapter 6: Someday isn't Today
- Oriko Magica Chapter 7: To Protect My World
- Copypasta contents from Puella Magi Oriko Magica page into chapter page. Make a list in Oriko page linking to each chapters. Make an infobox listing volume this chapter was collected on, how many pages are there, characters appearing in this chapter, etc.
Comments welcome --0x99 01:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
"Kazumi Magica" reorganization plan
Just like Oriko Magica:
- Kazumi Magica ← Puella Magi Kazumi Magica
- Page rename.
- Kazumi Magica Characters ← Kazumi Magica/Characters
- Kazumi Magica Witches ← Witches in Kazumi Magica
- Move the page to create characters page, and no longer include it in a flat Characters page. Probably leave Pleiades Saints the same as before.
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 1: Bad - Guy - Reckon Off
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 2: AHA! Dogs
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 3: Kazumix
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 4: Evil Nuts
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 5: Magicallabbiata
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 6: Loss Parfait
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 7: Gem Picking
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 8: Tempura Ice-Cream
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 9: The Freezer
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 10: Bibbity Bobbity Boo
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 11: Dead or Rice
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 12: Pleiades
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 13: Malefica Farce
- Kazumi Magica Chapter 14: Cannibalism
- Separate chapters from from Puella Magi Kazumi Magica, create infobox in the same manner as Oriko Magica above.
I'm still not sure how to deal with Witches in Kazumi Magica since most of them have no names. We can probably create new page for each one with name. --0x99 01:34, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- We can create pages for the pseudo-witches because we have their human names, but the unnamed normal witches could just be moved to a page that says, "Unnamed Witches of Kazumi Magica", maybe. Or we could call them by when they appeared, like "Kazumi Magica Chapter [Blank] Witch". --CrownClown 02:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- I think separate page for each witch is cleaner, so "Kazumi Magica Chapter [Blank] Witch" should work if they don't reappear in later chapters (none so far). --0x99 02:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
- We can create pages for the pseudo-witches because we have their human names, but the unnamed normal witches could just be moved to a page that says, "Unnamed Witches of Kazumi Magica", maybe. Or we could call them by when they appeared, like "Kazumi Magica Chapter [Blank] Witch". --CrownClown 02:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC)