Talk:Yuri undertones

Category

I think this belongs to Articles, no? - Prima 04:26, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Added. I'll also add a link on the articles page when there's no more placeholders. --Homerun-chan 09:07, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Spin-offs?

Just wondering, but should the spin-off manga get sections on here as well? There's plenty of yuri subtext to go around in those, especially Oriko Magica. --CrownClown 23:02, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I guess we can make them into a subsection but we need to see alot of the materials and the manga is still running, so far I dont know if we have enough material to work on. --Mutopis 00:17, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Kazumi has it's share as well. Umika and Kaoru going out dating with... no one else, apparently; some "suspicious" hugs, etc. Speaking off, next chapter comes out tomorrow. To think that I'm going to have to update all the Kazumi pages.... bleh --BrickBreak 00:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I remember the debates regarding this scene, some people interpreted the letter as Umika and Kaoru going on a date with guys and some yurifans went ape, until someone pointed out the cafe scene and there was no guys, then there were more debates with the anti-yuri saying maybe teh guys where on the bathroom etc... --Mutopis 03:30, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

That definitely falls under "yuri subtext", at least. The foe yay between Yuuri and Kazumi might, too, with all the manhandling the former does to the latter. --CrownClown 04:49, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I think we need to work with Oriko and Kirika, specially with Kirika's crazy/twisted love. Also we need a comparison between HomuMado and KiriKo as a couple, their reasons, their failures, and their motivation. I will put some stuff but someone needs to work with the rest, I dont think I can do much on it since I dont feel much passion on writing on KiriKo couple. --Mutopis 06:38, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

What I mean I am no fan of KiriKo, I just dont care much for them, not in the same way as KyouSaya or HomuMado... --Mutopis 06:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Interview

I am not sure if I did justice to the interpretation of the interview, anyone is more than welcome to make changes to it. --Mutopis 21:35, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm puzzled as to why that much of the interview had to be quoted. Most of the time, people have been referencing interviews to support their argument. I'm also not sure why you'd think Gen Urobuchi is only talking about the emotional aspect of relationships when neither are skirting from the topic of sexual relationships. In fact, Uno brought it up earlier in the interview with the topic of them not having sex by the legal definition of it and being able to have children. I made the editor's note to show he's saying they can't have sex by procreation essentially, not saying they can't have sexual relations...in fact, in wording the way he did and the context of the interview, it's clear that he isn't ruling out the possibility of them having non-procreative sex, which is what would happen between two women. Gen never refutes that but only continues on to discuss the nature of Homura and Madoka's relationship. In the part you have quoted, Urobuchi is then very clear that he considers the love of a heterosexual couple to be possible for a same sex couple, "whatever relationship that could exist between male and female, it should also exist between couples of same sex." By implication, that also refers to the sexual aspect of things. Nowhere does Gen state or suggest in the interview is he believes only an emotional relationship would happen between two people of the same sex (e.g. Homura and Madoka). The only difference he made in the interview was the difference in body parts, e.g. "Other than the involvement of penis in traditional sex definition, I don't believe a male/female relationship is more special nor unique compared to other relationships." Is that clear now? I'll go ahead and change the section. --randomanon 23:43, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Which is why I wasnt sure if I was correct with the interpretation, I knew there was some confusion there... --Mutopis 23:54, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Would it be stretching out to add (the possibility) that Homura was probably chasing a romantic/sexual non-reproductive relationship with Madoka if regard some of Urobuchi's word, or is there an issue of canon? --Mutopis 00:44, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be speculation. Anything sexual is left off-screen for both the manga and anime, which is typical for a non-ecchi/hentai magical girl anime. Madoka deviated from some magical girl conventions, but this is one where they stayed true to form. You don't even hear Hitomi's confession to Kyousuke or see them do anything more intimate than holding hands. It's not unusual though to find out the background information on characters tell you things that are or would never be shown for one reason or another. Like we know for certain from interviews that Kyousuke didn't harbor romantic thoughts towards Sayaka. As interesting as this interview is about Gen's thoughts on Homura and Madoka, as well as his thoughts in general about same sex relationships, so far what we know about their relationship only is about the feelings and outcome of the end of the anime, which was one-sided by Homura until the end where, well a physical relationship would be impossible. There's been no evidence yet to talk about Homura and Madoka's past relationship (like say in timeline 2 or so) where there could have been something more there. By timeline 5, with them growing more and more distant, the evidence in both the manga and anime doesn't make it look like Homura had any notions of romantic pursuit in mind (although her feelings were always there)...she just wanted Madoka to not contract and let Homura protect her. There's the drama CDs, voice commentary for episode 10 and some very big interviews and an official fanbook coming out that might give some more insight. Right now, we don't have the evidence. --randomanon 01:11, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

"well a physical relationship would be impossible" -- unless they make an OVA where Madoka visits Homura on her dreams and they end up having a "wet dream" More incentive for them to make an OVA to answer some of these questions, even another Drama CD would be nice... I mean they can milk this thing if they wanted to! --Mutopis 01:19, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I should say a physical relationship impossible as of now. The anime left it open-ended as to how they'd meet again although Madoka is emphatic they would...and who is going to argue with omniscience? The manga and anime are known to deviate and even the manga ending doesn't preclude the possibility that they could meet in person in the physical world prior to meeting again in the afterlife. It would be just like Shinbo to come up with some way to bring those two together again in a future sequel. --randomanon 01:26, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I think this case is like Sayaka killing the train guys, where he intentionally wrote it so that strict canon Nakazawas it and allows either interpretation. In both cases he was obviously considering the fun interpretations, and doesn't object to them, but would rather let the viewer decide which is "correct" since these are tangential to the point of the story, yet highly controversial, and he's more concerned with conveying the main point than risking viewers getting bogged down by inhibitions or moral objections.

As for physical stuff, magic can do a lot of things. KM 03:12, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I removed most of the speculah and confusing things (like that QB joke) that was added to this. The interview is already long and possibly confusing on the issue of sex, I don't think it needs anything else added to make remo possibly confusing. It's also one of the clearest and most important official evidence of yuri that's been given on Madoka, so I think it should be treated as a newsworthy item, e.g. leave the speculah out put it in a different section....although I notice the page hasn't separated out canon analysis from speculah and fan-based things. --randomanon 12:33, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

December Issue of Megami

From 4chan: "In the December issue of Megami, out at the end of October, there will be a special feature on yuri, and specifically refers to Strike Witches and Madoka among the ones that will be covered."

http://www.amiami.jp/shop/ProductInfo/product_id/230279

女の子たちの友情について“百合”をキーワードに妄想しちゃう1冊。表紙 で話題の「ゆるゆり」巻頭30ページで大特集！そのほか「魔法少女まどか☆ マギカ」や「ストライクウィッチーズ」など人気作品をこの本ならではの 切り口でご紹介いたします♪

More from 4chan: 2011年12月号別冊 メガミマガジンリリィ

It's an extra volume, so regular Megami mag for December should be sold separately. If AmiAmi description is correct, they're trying to launch a new and very much yuri, mag. I don't expect it to be monthly but they definitely have their chances with a bimonthly given how YuriHime sells out in the blink of eyes lately.

• I would kill for a translation of that" --Mutopis 20:01, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

A Comparison Between KiriKo and HomuMado

(I will try my best to write this, anyone is welcome to make changes to it) --Mutopis 09:46, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Oriko:

Oriko seems to have more in common with Madoka than Homura in several points. Oriko comes from a privilege class and she was the daughter of an important politician. When Oriko learns that the end of the world is coming she hatches a plan to stop it from unfolding it to save countless lives.

Just like Madoka, we suspect Oriko's family was very warm and loving as Oriko held her father and mother with high regard and reverence. Because of her father's occupation or perhaps of their family's fortune it seems that Oriko was well taken care financially. And received an excellent education from a private school. There is no doubt that Oriko stared off as a well behaved daughter, respected by her peers, and attributed kindness toward others. She exhibited a desire to help others, perhaps to earn her father's respect and meet his expectations at a young age, it is possible that Oriko had a strong bond of respect with her father.

Madoka also has a loving family, you can notice it its warm feeling during their daily routine they have with their daughter and how much they love her. Madoka is not wealthy but her family is financially secure enough to live in a nice big house and they are able to provide for all her needs. We dont know what kind of school Mitakihara Middle School is, but it is certainly not the worst school in the city (if we dont take into account students like Sayaka or teachers like Kazuko) so Madoka's education must be sufficient. Madoka loves her family equally but it seems that she has great admiration and respect for her "cool" mother and wishes one day to share an alcoholic beverage with her once she becomes an adult. Madoka is known for being a good girl and she never lies to her parents. Madoka is the embodiment of kindness.

At this point the similarities will start to dissipate and we will notice few commonalities and more differences.

While Oriko was already helping her father to further his political career, in comparison Madoka didnt have any role in her life except to be a daughter and a student. There doesnt seem to be a strong pressure in the part of Madoka's family for Madoka to excel, instead they want her to do her best. Their only reasonable expectation from their part is for her daughter to be good, obedient, and happy so it is unlikely that Madoka's life was stressful. In part, Junko expects Madoka will make a few mistakes in her young life while growing as she believes this is good for the development of young children, learning from their mistakes and errors during their developing years will mold them into becoming into strong and healthy adults. It is because of this peaceful and perfect life that it is possible that Madoka felt she was useless as she lacked any responsibilities (or lacked any personal ambitions of her own). Perhaps Madoka was already looking to find a role in her life so she could prove her own worth. In contrast, Oriko as the daughter of a politician and as part of an elite class she must have already developed an image for herself and a sense of identity constructed by her family and her peers, allowing little room for improvement or mistakes. It is possible that because of her family's background and her class position she must have felt some pressure to live up to other people's expectations.

Identity crisis, issues of adaptation and coping.

Oriko's world came to a crashing halt when it was discovered her father was stealing funds from his political party, in short he was embezzling. Her father's crime and suicide was enough bring shame and humiliation to the Mikuni family. We dont know what happened to Oriko's mom but we can assume she passed away long ago. Because of the scandal Oriko lost her support network of friends and school classmates. We can only assume that any relatives Oriko has abandoned her so she was left alone. Not even the teachers wanted to do anything with her because of the scandal, in short she was betrayed by everyone. The only support she ever had ever since was her friend Kirika but their first encounter would happen much later in her life and she wasnt there for her during the critical moment. Without a support group Oriko lost her sense of identity and her reason to be. We can make few assumptions regarding the nature of Oriko's wish, one can interpret it as an attempt to reconstruct her life by seeing the future to learn the outcome of her actions, another reason is for her to see into the future and see what kind of life or existence she would lead. Perhaps an attempt to find an answer to the meaning of her existence. When she discovered that the world was coming to an end that is when Oriko found a new meaning to her existence, she believed it was her fate to save the world and the city.

Both girls suffered from critical situations that tossed their lives in turmoil. In the case of Madoka the pressured started to build up slowly from Episode 3 furthering her sense of helplessness. Her only copoing mechanism was her friends and family during her troubling and sad times. Yet at the same time she tried to take actions in the hopes that she could turn an event for the better or even sought advice from others when she was lost. In the case of Mami's Madoka was left to grieve on her own, her brief conversation with Homura may have helped a little in dealing with the loss. When Madoka noticed that Sayaka was getting out of control she sought advice form her mother and she took a radical action to try to reason with her friend, even if would cost her friendship. The next case was learning the horrifying mechanism of the Puella Magi system and the price that ones pay for one's wish. Even after learning this horrifying truth Madoka still felt helpless but also willing to sacrifice her soul if it meant it would help her friends and save the city. Then there was her fight with Sayaka as well as losing her when she became a witch. In both cases she got help from Homura (who tried to stop Sayaka's transformation) and Kyouko who tried to rescue the old Sayaka in a dangerous gamble. In both cases Madoka continued to struggle to help her friends and even attempt a foolish rescue that would have killed her. Then add up the warped history lesson about how many girls had to suffer in wold history and add up the fact that the city will be destroyed soon you can see that Madoka is falling into a sense of helplessness and hopelessness. But we cannot forget that during her journey she never gave up, instead she tried to help and seek advice from others. There were two people who were of great asset in her life, her mother who trusted her daughter and who loved her and then there is Homura a stranger who was relentless in her mission to save Madoka.

We can observe that even when Madoka felt a sense of helplessness she still tried to reach for a miracle, she was hoping for a solution not to save herself but to save others. Madoka's wish at the end wasnt just to save Homura, it wasnt just to save the city, or to protect her family, it was to protect everyone. One can argue that Madoka's wish was selfless in nature, or that it was also selfish for she wanted the impossible and everything. Perhaps it is that paradox that makes it the more reason for her wish to negate Madoka's existance because it transcended the impossible. But more importantly Madoka was blessed to have a support network of friends and family members while the world was running into destruction. And perhaps one can say that Madoka was lucky. For even at the end Madoka still had a family to return to, a father and mother to get support and advice from. It was from them that she discovered her reason for being while the world was coming to an end, she wanted to protect everyone.

HomuMami Third Time Line

It mentions in the article about a potential relationship here, and while I don't see I can understand how other's might. In reality this is explained by the fact that Mami just didn't want Homu-chan to stop time and save them. Since, as long as she's held in place even if she uses her power she can't do anything. KnightofDisorder 09:44, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Pixiv Ranking (10-09-2013)

Pixiv Pairing Ranking:

1. MadoHomu - 10179 count

2. KyouSaya - 9033

3. MamiMado - 1071

4. MamiKyou - 1006

5. MadoSaya - 832

6. HomuKyou - 813

7. HomuMami - 788

8. HomuSaya - 443

9. MadoKyou - 332

10. MamiSaya - 244

Mami X Nagisa

Has Mami gone pedo? Those boobs could swallow the poor girl's head! --Derp101(3) 15:35, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Anecdote

Apparently it's physically possible to read this page in its entirety in one sitting. [1] - Prima 04:15, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, I wont apologize for it, it was always my intention to turn this page into a trap to recruit would-be yuri fans. (is working! it is actually working!!) --Mutopis 07:08, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Create a page of your deepest desires to luring unsuspecting victims? Em... That sounds... Familiar - 08:19, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Chinese Translation

I am the organizer of Ｙuri有理 translating group and we are translating this article into Chinese. I plan to add it into 魔法少女小圆维基 after finishing. Now the process is about 40%, but we found a serious problem that this article is edited nearly everyday! This article are changing so rapidly that we can not catch up with it. So, now I just don't know how to handle this... We started last month. By then the "Sayaka and Kyoko" catalog dropped just after "HomuMado Trivia" catalog, but now the catalog structure have been completely changed. --Ｙuri有理 漢化組 11:00, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

congrats on your journey to all that is Madoka, yes, this article has seen some recent changes, but that is because the movie and the game has created new materials to work and to be added. I would recommend waiting for a while until things settle down. --Mutopis 11:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I can translate the present page and move to Chinese Madoka Wiki, and if this article is edited majorly then I will translate the added part and move again. It seems to be the only one approach since the number of canon media keeps increasing. Just looking forward to it. (Chinese title for this article: 百合成分). --Ｙuri有理 漢化組 14:10, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I also recommend you not try to translate all the text quickly. Even only translating the most important points is enough. --Yorkwoo 15:37, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

You can always check the page history for any changes. - Prima 19:10, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Movement

Is there any particular reason for why KyouSaya, easily the secondmost popular pairing, is now so far down the page?69.181.76.108 03:44, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

I found this weird thing, too. The structure of the catalog of CPs are now completely broken. It was edited into this shape at 08:03, 19 January 2014 by Sevv, yet the reason is unknown to me... --Ｙuri有理 漢化組 06:28, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

moved them to proper place. --Mutopis 11:12, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

About Kyouko Trivia and Eri Kitamura Trivia

These two sections were initially in KyouSaya catalog but then moved to the bottom of the article. I moved back to where they were but I also found these sections may not belong to this catalog, even this article, because these sections are not mainly about KyouSaya. Perhaps these sections should fall down to Kyouko Sakura and Sayaka Miki. --Ｙuri有理 漢化組 01:59, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Degrading to the Characters

I'm just here to say that if you are actually a fan of Madoka you don't treat the characters badly by using them as interchangeable shipping parts, and you don't demean the real relationships they have in the series. Homura and Madoka have a very strong bond and by pairing them with other people you imply that bond is weak, because if they bond was not weak they wouldn't end up with other people. The same can be said for Kyouko and Sayaka.