User talk:Mutopis

I was just passing by and took a little glimpse at your impressive KyoSaya gallery and... well. I'm not a yuri fan, I'm just a normal human and I did not happen to step upon the mysterious Yuri Goggles. But I kinda understand you guys - but there's one thing I don't understand. Why the heck on all those doujins Kyouko is in the "male" role? I mean, Sayaka seems more of such tomboy, with her short hair and all... I know Kyouko has stronger personality, but...
ehm...
OK, I tried to imagine confident Sayaka in suit and blushing Kyouko in wedding dress and it just didn't feel right :D
But maybe it's worth asking - do such "reverse" KyoSaya (or should I call it SayaKyo) doujins exist? --KFYatek 19:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Kyouko is the experienced, independent woman who has an obvious interest in Sayaka, and Sayaka is the confused teenage girl who's playing hard to get, and Kyouko beat Sayaka up in a fight, so it's only natural that she'd take the lead. Kyouko has a history of being direct and even overly aggressive, while Sayaka can't even bring herself to confess her feelings. Of course, the real test is genderswapping. Kyouko would be a perfectly normal male character. In fact, she'd fit right into any typical shoujo romance as the bad boy whose hidden heart of gold can be saved by the heroine. Sayaka, on the other hand, acts like a real teenage girl. Man-Sayaka x Kyouko would be worthy of comparisons to Natsuru, while Kyou-kun x Sayaka is straight out of any romance novel. Disclaimer: I'm not into KyoSaya, I just came here to speculah. --KM

What KM said. Plus Kyouko as a Bad Boy is so easy to identity. And with the whole Sayaka as a mermaid, it is easy to see Kyouko as the "Bad Boy Prince" coming to her rescue. I am not aware of any doujins as of yet but I am keeping an eye on it to see what they are making. --Mutopis 22:51, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

You'll probably find Sayaka in that position if you look for MadoSaya. It is rather amusing, if we consider her position essentially reverses with Kyouko. Just another proof that everything is relative, I guess. BrickBreak 23:41, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

File:Beware_of_flying_buckets.png and File:SHAFTing_comic.png - what comic is this and where can I find more of it? Also, where did you find a typeset version of File:Super dimentional girl homu homu.png? I could only find Japanese original on danbooru with translation in annotations... --KFYatek 11:24, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

It's probably wild-words... Oh wait, you mean the typesetted comics? There's a few of us that been making them, and you can almost always find a copy of it somewhere on the /u/ general threads. - 76.172.48.24 12:53, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

got them from /u/, there is also someone from lazyedits that takes translations from danbooru and edit them. But most of my stuff I always get them from /u/ --Mutopis 19:43, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Question: among your fanwork dives, have you ever found anything with Sayaka fighting Oktavia? --BrickBreak 09:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

No, most of the Sayaka/Oktavia arts that include these two usually reflects Sayaka's breakdown and loosing to Oktavia like this one [1] or sometimes it just an art of two of them [2] but I dont think I have ever seeing Sayaka fighting her witch form. I do remember seeing Madoka fighting a gretchen but she was in human form (I think she was more of Dark Madoka) --Mutopis 09:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh :( I guess Madoka artists prefer to further the clues given by the anime than to reimagine it. Then again, I guess that's perfectly normal.
It's just something that's been bothering me for a while. The transformation from Puella to witch seems nearly instantaneous, it's hard to believe that the witch forms from nothing just like that. Therefore, I think it's very likely that, just as a girl's powers are determined when she contracts, her witch form must be as well: future experiences may affect certain detail, but not completely change it, as seen with Sayaka. And thus, if such a thing lives inside a Puella, I'd like to imagine that they'd put up a fight, even if destined to lose, even if only for a second, and even if only inside their subconscious/soul, to prevent it from taking control of their soul.
Hmm. Gotta post this speculah somewhere. Anyway, it'd be great to see some fanart of that :) --BrickBreak 17:20, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Freaking shot in the dark, but does anyone know if there was a Yes We Can Madoka version? I could swear I remember seeing one... Anyone? --Mutopis 23:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Nope, but here's a lame attempt at one. --BrickBreak 00:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, that just depressing, she looks sad in it... --Mutopis 00:27, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

:( Well, in my defense, I am pretty sure the shots you uploaded weren't made with obamiconme.com. I just lack any skills to do something like that by hand. --BrickBreak 00:41, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

That's ok, would try find it later --Mutopis 00:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Left you a message at MAL, can you check it please? :) --BrickBreak 07:57, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I did --Mutopis 08:00, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again with this again, but, well, you're the man, when it comes to artwork :)
Can you tell me if you've seen the art that was used for this around? Thanks :) --BrickBreak 15:31, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. My last production might be relevant to your interests, although... romance isn't really my forte :P --BrickBreak 02:34, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I have a question, I would like you to answer. http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Scary_madokami.jpg Did you make this picture? If yes do you allow this http://pie5525.deviantart.com/art/madokami-245484455, if not then I`ll just take it off. If you didn't make it, who made it, I have to like give confirmation. Thank you~--YouHasBeenEaten

Preeeeeety sure the reason you liked that Agnus Dei was because of Madokami, but nonetheless, as an Ace Combat fanboy, I gotta sell my version :) --BrickBreak 12:12, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Nice to see a fan of the yuri vibes between my two favourite Madoka characters. I must say, Sayaka's lack of reaction to someone who clearly cares for her a lot is only matched in weirdness by her huge reaction to someone who didn't appear to give a crap about her at all. Maybe if Kyoko hit people with a violin rather than a spear, things would be different. Bersayaka 00:17, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

If she did that, she would have to fight off Sayaka to be able to finish her job killing witches, worst, Hitomi may actually have a violin fetish and would try to steal Kyoko too! --Mutopis 00:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the following part from characterization in the "Kaname Madoka" page "...However, Kyubey knows that Madoka's motives would be selfish in nature so it would twist her wish. Which is why Madoka realizes that her thinking was incorrect in the beginning and contemplates what to do to save Homura and her town in Episode 11. Madoka goes from wanting to be selfless for selfish reasons to wanting to be selfless for selflessness itself. By removing Madoka's selfish desire from her wish, she literally removes her self and her physical presence as a consequence."

I don't think Madoka had wanted to be selfless for selfish reasons.

At least, that is just a opinion, and it is not generally approved, so it shouldn't appear on a wiki page. Also, I made some other edit on that page, if you don't think they should be edited, please talk to me.--SayakaMadoka 07:59, 25 Sep 2011 (UTC)

It's OK if you put them in the speculation section, thank you for doing that for me, I couldn't do that myself because I was sleeping.

However, I still don't think it's good to say Madoka has become an "adult". In the anime, so called "maturity" is metaphorized as, essentially, corruption. When one becomes an adult, most likely he becomes a minion, a witch or a person whose true heart is blinded that he cannot resonant with other people and the power of the light side(hope, selfless love...). So it's OK to say Madoka grows up as herself but it's not good to say that she has become an adult, since most adults are called adults only because they're essentially corrupted. In a sense, you can say Madoka's maturity is the maturity of a person with the purist soul, but that wouldn't be necessary, and we should avoid using the words that are associated with "maturity", "adult" is one of them. Madoka is the avatar of hope, she does everything because of the pure hope and good will, not because of some inferior conscious thoughts of responsibility, but a realization of her heart, the core of her soul, her subconsciousness, which is deep inside her.

I'm not going to delete that since it's in the speculation section, but allow me to add what I said in the second paragraph in the speculation section as well.--SayakaMadoka 17:17, 25 Sep 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with what you said. Madoka is not becoming someone like her mother, he mother is a good woman, but she's corrupted as well, only the soul of a young girl like Madoka, can be really pure. None of those girls are truly selfish, everyone, including the people who are very selfless, have selfish desires, but that doesn't make them selfish people. All the puella magi in the anime, are the ones whose nature is much more selfless than most people, they have the purist souls. The corruption doesn't just refer to the corruption of girls of adolescence, but all the people. It's not a metaphor of young girls, but of the whole humanity, every single human being on earth. This anime shows us that, the so called "maturity" in our world, is essentially corruption. People were naive children with pure souls, filled with hope, selfless love and compassion at the beginning, but they were eventually corrupted to become the so called "adults", who are essentially minions, witches or people whose true hearts blinded. The ones with purest souls, like the puella magi in the anime, they're the ones who are taking the greatest damage and corruption from the evil of the society, and they're the ones who are corrupted into witches (As metaphorized in the Bible, the arch-devils are fallen angels. In the anime, the purer the soul is, the stronger the magical power). The ones whose souls are not so pure, would eventually become the common adults(people whose true heart blinded) or the minions of the witches. Also, I have said, conscious thoughts of responsibility is inferior, it is only a rough projection of hope and selfless love deep inside our subconsciousness, it is not to be followed. Madoka's heart resonant with hope, that's the power that leads her, not any conscious thoughts - only what's deep inside us is true, in a sense, all words are fake, since they can never completely describe what our true heart(subconsciousness) is like(the last sentence in the ending song Magia, "My feelings are all I rely upon, what creates my life, is this, wish.", it is the feeling that is to be followed, not any conscicous thoughts).

This is a very strong, beautiful and heart-touching metaphor, I hope you can see it. This is, as I said, one of the most important metaphors in the anime, which reveals us the corruption of the heart of humanity, and, behind it, a world hurrying to its ruin. If you can't see what I see, it's OK, I'm not going to edit anything on that page now(since they're in the speculation section), if you do see what I see however, I hope to edit it in the way I would like to. --SayakaMadoka 21:17, 25 Sep 2011 (UTC)

Madoka's maturity, as I said, is different from the maturity of becoming an adult(which is essentially being corrupted), it is the true maturity. Also as I've already said, we should avoid using words associated with "maturity", like "adult", "adulthood", these words are of negative meaning in the anime(and in fact, essentially, in our world as well). We should merely say that she "grows up".--SayakaMadoka 21:30, 25 Sep 2011 (UTC)

I said I'm not going to delete anything now, unless you agree with what I said. I deleted things without telling any one at first is because this is the first time I write on a wiki page, sorry about that. If I'm going to delete anything in the future, I'm going to propose it first.--SayakaMadoka 21:42, 25 Sep 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your respecting me though you disagree with me.--SayakaMadoka 00:54, 26 September 2011 (UTC) It has been edited.--SayakaMadoka 01:20, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

All wishes gets twisted, but it might not be twisted because of the selfishness, and for Madoka, it may only be twisted after her being turned into a witch, that's what I mean. Since Madoka hasn't become a witch in the first lap, I will delete that statement, it has been some time since I watched the 10th episode so I didn't remember.--SayakaMadoka 16:08, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

By the way, do you agree with my other statements? I want to know whether I have convinced you or not...--SayakaMadoka 16:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Have you watched a movie named "Equilibrium"? It is a very good movie, I think maybe you will like it since you like this anime. I watched it yesterday.--SayakaMadoka 16:25, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, thank you very much for proof reading what I wrote, as you may have already noticed, English is not my first language... My ability to write in English is quite limited now, but it is going to be improved bit by bit.--SayakaMadoka 16:46, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Did Kyubey say that the twisted wishes caused the puellae magi to become witches? Or did he just say that all wishes gets twisted? And if twisted wishes caused the puellae magi to become witches, is it true that the wishes are twisted because of selfishness? Can you find any evidence? This is what is in the "Episode 11" page: "He(Kyubey) refuses to admit his own fault in the cruelty of the magical girl system, claiming that the wishes of girls in question are to be blamed as any wish can be twisted by its own logic." This doesn't mean it is always the twisted wishes that cause the girls to become witches, this only indicates a possibility of that, maybe very often it is the case, but he didn't say it is always the case. There are certain wishes that we can think of are hard to be twisted (example: I want a big delicious cake), and is it true if a Puella Magi makes that kind of wish she would never be turned into a witch?--SayakaMadoka 01:59, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

"Also I do not believe you have proven your statement that Madoka's wish never gets twisted"

I didn't claim that her wishes never get twisted, I simply claimed that the twisted wishes are not the causes but the consequences of her being turned into a witch.--SayakaMadoka 01:46, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

So, are you indicating that no girl would truly make a wish like getting a cake? What if a girl really make a wish like that? Will she never become a witch? And please give some replies to the other things that I said here. --SayakaMadoka 02:28, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

"Did anyone in the anime series was truly happy of getting their wishes? Mami didnt, Sayaka didnt, Kyoko didnt. Homura was on her way because she kept failing to save Madoka." That's true, that's why I said maybe most of the time it is the case, but maybe it is not always true(that the girls get twisted because of the twisted wishes), there is no proof for its certainty isn't it?--SayakaMadoka 02:35, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

"So, are you indicating that no girl would truly make a wish like getting a cake? What if a girl really make a wish like that? Will she never become a witch?" I'm not talking about Madoka, I'm talking about a random Puella Magi. And I'm not talking about a wish of getting a cake, but all wishes like that(that cannot be easily twisted).--SayakaMadoka 02:39, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

"I am saying if a person makes a wish, no matter how simple or complex, at the end, because of the logic of the wish, the person will become unhappy."

Yes, that's true. But think about it, there is a possibility of that, the person becomes unhappy in the end only because of that the wish had turned her into a Puella Magi and she has to face the darkness and corruption, and it is the darkness and corruption that the Puella Magi has to face turned her into a witch. In this case, the content of the wish has nothing to do with her becoming a witch, the only thing that the wish does that cause her to become a witch is that it makes her a Puella Magi(that's the only thing that the wish does that distorts the reality).--SayakaMadoka 03:03, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

"I hope you are not saying that becoming a Puella Magi is the only act that distorts reality." You didn't read what I wrote carefully. I said at the beginning "there is a possibility of that". Please read carefully.--SayakaMadoka 03:37, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

"If you ask a girl who made a wish, it was an insignificant wish. "Did you regret making that wish?" If the answer is yes, then the wish did not make them happy. Remember, according to Kyubey, the "act of wishing is irrational" not just the content of the wish." That is exactly the case I said "the only thing that the wish does that cause her to become a witch is that it makes her a Puella Magi(that's the only thing that the wish does that distorts the reality)". So we both agree with it then? If so, then it is possible that the content of the wishes of Madoka are only twisted after she's being turned into a witch, and the only reason that the wish caused her to become a witch is not that it is twisted before she became a witch, but it causes her to become a Puella Magi and face the darkness and corruption.--SayakaMadoka 03:47, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: "Quote: You didn't read what I wrote carefully. I said at the beginning "there is a possibility of that"". I read it. The act of making a wish distorts reality. The fact that wishes can be created is an act of distortion by itself, not just becoming a puella magi or becoming a wish. Otherwise Kyubey cannot grant wishes nor can there be magic. When a person makes a wish, the act of wishing it, always distorts reality --Mutopis 03:47, 27 September 2011 (UTC)"

So it is possible that the only thing it does to distort reality is that it turns the girl into a Puella Magi, thus she has to face darkness and corruption. Do you agree with this?--SayakaMadoka 03:50, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: "The wish doesnt get twisted after becoming a witch, the wish gets twisted as a result of making a wish."

But the wishes themselves(the content of the wishes, you said "Remember, according to Kyubey, the "act of wishing is irrational" not just the content of the wish.") may or may not be twisted before the girl becomes a witch, it is the reality that is twisted.

Quote: "Not only. Let me break it again. Making wish (distort reality), become puella magi (another distort reality), become witch (another distort reality). There is not only."

What I said: "it is possible that the only thing it does to distort reality is that it turns the girl into a Puella Magi", the second "it" refers to "wish", this sentence doesn't conflict with yours, since making wish does distort reality, it's just that it only distorts reality by making the girl a Puella Magi.--SayakaMadoka 04:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: "it only distort reality by making the girl Puella Magi" this sentense makes it sound that only becoming a puella magi is the only distortion. But you are saying that the wish is also a distortion. Then you need to write "Making a wish and becoming a puella magi" is the only distortion, otherwise it = becoming a puella magi is the only distortion. Make it clear."

OK, I'll say "Making a wish and becoming a puella magi" then. It is possible that "Making a wish and becoming a puella magi" can have nothing to do with the content of the wish as we have both stated, is it true? If so, then do you agree with me that "it is possible that the content of Madoka's wish hasn't been twisted until she has been turned into a witch"--SayakaMadoka 04:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, there is a matter of selfishness that you haven't replied me yet. If the wishes are twisted, they might be twisted because of uncertainty or reasons other than selfishness, do you agree with this?--SayakaMadoka 04:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think Kyoko was selfish at all. She made a decision that lacks consideration, but since she wasn't doing it intentionally, you can't say she's selfish, that's different from the case of Sayaka. Kyoko hasn't expected her father to be unhappy about it at all, that's why she made that wish. It is not the case that, though she knew her father may or may not approve of her making such a wish, and she ignores her father selfishly and made the wish. She is totally innocent, and not "intentionally being selfish", which means she's essentially not selfish(no selfish desire was driving her to make such a wish), the tragedy, for Kyoko, is merely an accident.--SayakaMadoka 05:25, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: "I am not saying selfish in a bad connotation of personal gain or selfish for ignoring a father's request. But selfish for not thinking how others would feel in the first place."

If your definition of selfishness not only includes intentional selfishness but also unintentional selfishness, then I agree with you. But please do notice, intentional selfishness and unintentional selfishness are totally different(this does not indicate that I don't agree with you, I simply wish you to notice that). --SayakaMadoka 05:52, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Let's talk about it tomorrow, it's 11pm now in Canada. Though you don't completely agree with me, we have reached some agreements after all, I think. If this is true, then maybe you would want to make some edits to what you have written on the speculation section of the Madoka page. If not, then it's fine, just do nothing about it.--SayakaMadoka 06:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: The same world she wanted to protect as a result of her wish. Second, I am not going to question Kyubey's words until there is enough proof to say otherwise, if Kyubey says all wishes get twisted, then they get twisted. No buts, if, or otherwise, the moment one makes a wish the wish becomes twisted, because reality made it so based on the wishes own logic. This cannot be argued until the anime says otherwise or brings a counter-example.

That's what I said some time ago: "I didn't claim that her wishes never get twisted, I simply claimed that the twisted wishes are not the causes but the consequences of her being turned into a witch.--SayakaMadoka 01:46, 27 September 2011 (UTC)"

In fact, I simply didn't claim that "all the wishes would be twisted" is not true...

Here is what I said about it "This is what is in the "Episode 11" page: "He(Kyubey) refuses to admit his own fault in the cruelty of the magical girl system, claiming that the wishes of girls in question are to be blamed as any wish can be twisted by its own logic." This doesn't mean it is always the twisted wishes that cause the girls to become witches, this only indicates a possibility of that, maybe very often it is the case, but he didn't say it is always the case. There are certain wishes that we can think of are hard to be twisted (example: I want a big delicious cake), and is it true if a Puella Magi makes that kind of wish she would never be turned into a witch?--SayakaMadoka 01:59, 27 September 2011 (UTC)"

You can delete these repeated parts after you read them.

PS: This is my last reply for today, because it's late, if I'm going to reply, I'm going to reply tomorrow.--SayakaMadoka 06:14, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

If you have read what I wrote carefully, you would see that none of my claims are conflicting with what is shown in the anime(I don't understand why you're saying that what I said is contradictory to what is shown in the anime, it is just not). When I'm indicating a possibility, my evidence is not weaker than yours(neither of us have solid evidence, I don't need any counter-examples, because I was claiming that you didn't have any solid evidence to prove your statements in the first place). I don't think you have understood what I wrote, since some of the logic of my sentences are a bit of delicate(I don't know if this is the right word to use).

Quote: "But let us say after many years you are still happy and you haven't regretted for the wish, but then you die and you regret dying, still the same, you regret making a wish because now you are dying. In all cases, it doesn't matter, you are a slave to the wish, the wish forced you to become a slave and fight against witches, thus the wish itself was twisted since the beginning because the wish will betray you at the end or cause a situation that would cause you die or to turn into a witch"

This does sound like you agree with me(if you read what I wrote carefully, you will see this). I totally agree with the first part. For the second part, you have described it as "the wish itself was twisted since the beginning because the wish will betray you at the end or cause a situation that would cause you die or to turn into a witch", the reason that your description is different from mine is simply that you have define the twist of wish in a different way than I have - you said the "wish itself was twisted", in my words it was reality that was twisted, because I consider "wish" the "content of wish", and the definition doesn't include the consequence of it(which is in this case, making the girl a Puella Magi), which is in your definition, included. So the meanings of our descriptions are equivalent, it is just that we used different ways to express them(though I would prefer my own description).

As for whether it is possible that the wish was twisted after the girl was corrupted, we need to have clear definitions of "wish" and "corrupted"(the definitions are rough, technically, you may want to call them "precise descriptions"). I define "wish" as the "content of the wish"(which as I stated doesn't include the consequence of it, such as the girl being turned into a Puella Magi), and "girl is corrupted" is defined as the "girl's heart becomes dark", which means her heart is broken and blinded by darkness, hope is gone and the heart is filled with desperation. With these two definitions, I would say it is that the girl is corrupted that causes the wish to be twisted, which in your way to say it(with your different definitions), is the twist of wish happened before the corruption, because you are not referring "wish" to the "content of the wish", but the "content of the wish" and "the consequence that it would cause". In another way to say it, we can also say that they happened at the same time, because at the same time the heart gets dark, the twisted content of the wish is revealed(that makes sense too, doesn't it?). It's like if a person is killed by the bomb, is he killed at the same time the bomb explodes? Or after it explodes? It depends on how we define "explosion" and "being killed". In you way to say it, you would say the person is killed before the bomb explodes, because the bomb was set before it explodes, and it will surely explode at a point that it will kill the person(It's sort of like "You are already dead" in Fist of the North Star). All these descriptions are different descriptions of the same thing.

However, it is all right if you still disagree. Since I believe I have said everything I needed to say and it's just the matter of whether you understand what I've said or not, I'm not going to say anything more about it right now, because if I say anything, it's likely that it's going to be repetitive to what I've said.

If I see anything specifically that I want to edit on the Madoka page, I will post it on the Madoka talk page.--SayakaMadoka 14:33, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: "I would say it is that the girl is corrupted that causes the wish to be twisted" Again, I disagree. That may apply with Sayaka, but what about Kyoko?

Oh no, I said it is only a possibility, means it might be true for some girls, I don't mean it is true for every girl. Now do you agree?--SayakaMadoka 02:28, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: When one says that reality and the wish are the same, that is an error.

I have never claimed that they're the same...

I claimed that the wish caused the reality to be twisted, while its content is not twisted(until the end), and again I want you to notice that, I'm not saying this is true for every girl, I'm merely saying that it might be true for some girls, for example, Madoka, and not in every lap, but only some laps.--SayakaMadoka 02:33, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

OK, I guess it's hard to convince you then. If we disagree with each other, then we should simply write what we think right on the speculation section, I won't delete anything written by you without telling you about it. I don't think I have no evidence because I think if you say I have no evidence then your evidence isn't solid either(at least for me).--SayakaMadoka 02:38, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: ...and because reality was twisted reality fought back by twisting their wishes. Again, when the girls twisted reality, reality twisted their wishes. That is how Episode 11 states.

I agree with this, and I don't think this conflicts with anything I've said here. All wishes may get twisted at the end, I didn't disagree with this. But as I have said, maybe they're twisted after the girl is corrupted, not causing the girl to be corrupted. Maybe in some cases, the wish twists the reality by making the girl a puella magi, and then the girl gets corrupted, and then the wish(content of it) gets twisted. I have also said that according to different definitions, you may still want to say that the wish gets twisted before the corruption, but as I stated, they're just different descriptions of the same truth. --SayakaMadoka 03:22, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: This is what we call an impasse. I disagree with that statement because it undermines the series all together. If there were exceptions to the rule that only very few can get away with where their contents are not twisted, then the whole idea is absurd.

It's not absurd, the wish caused the reality to be twisted, that always happens(I don't know why you're talking like I have said this is not true, I simply haven't said that). If the content is not twisted at the beginning but at the end, it's totally OK. This is not very important, because wishes are, as you said, something that is definitely going to twist the reality. But the thing is how it twists the reality? By twisting the content of the wish or by twisting something else?

It's like saying most girls' wishes will be twisted, but only few won't. Kyubey never states that, it states that all wishes get twisted. Otherwise the whole series is a lie. That's like saying Madoka is never in danger because her wish wont be twisted. There are no exceptions to this rule.

What do you mean by "Madoka is never in danger because her wish won't be twisted"? She's fighting witches and facing the greatest darkness, how can she not be in danger? And I have stated many times that I have never said her wish won't cause the reality to be twisted, I'm only saying that the content of the wish itself(If I wish I can have a cake, then it is possible that the cake doesn't taste badly, you have agreed with this already) perhaps wouldn't be twisted at the beginning. A wish is definitely not something normal, and the hope that is concentrated by the wish is going to be compensated by the desperation that it's going to cause(Or you can say it has already been caused at the beginning, these are just different ways to express it), thus the reality is distorted, but the reality is not distorted because of the cake is not delicious or anything about the cake. In this case, the only thing the wish does is that it makes you a Puella Magi(or maybe other events that has nothing to do with the cake), this is the only manifestation of the twist of reality in this case(it is assumed that it is impossible to get a wish from Kyubey without being a Puella Magi, so this distortion of "making the girl a Puella Magi" always exist). As long as the reality is twisted and it's caused by the wish, it's all right. Since the content of the wish, though most of the time it may be twisted, if it is not twisted, then the wish can cause the distortion in other ways(making the girl a puella magi itself is a great distortion of reality caused by the wish). There are various ways the wish can cause distortion: twisting the content of the wish itself, making the girl a Puella Magi so she has to fight witches, causing unexpected events... If the content of the wish itself doesn't get twisted at the beginning, then as long as "the girl becomes Puella Magi"(which is definitely going to happen) and other events happen, the wish is still going to get the reality twisted. In fact, "the girl becomes Puella Magi" alone is enough to create a great distortion of reality, so there is a possibility that, in some cases, this is the only thing that happens. As for the content of the wish, it's very likely that it is going to be twisted at the end(maybe when the girl becomes a witch), but this may not always be the case, because as I have stated, the content of the wish itself isn't so important(important most of the time, but the possibility of that it is not important in some cases cannot be excluded), if it doesn't get twisted, there are other ways for the wish to cause distortion anyway.

Quote: This is the idea of why making a wish with Kyubey without consequences is just impossible...

I have never said that a wish is without consequence(I have no idea why you think I have said this), please read what I wrote carefully, I have talked about this matter(consequence of the wish) many times.

-SayakaMadoka 01:54, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Quote: What you are proposing goes against what Kyubey already stated, and for that reason it goes against the whole idea of the series. Let me set up an example...

You example proves nothing. In your example, you can say that the wish is twisted, but it just doesn't proves anything that I said is wrong.

I don't think I have said anything that goes against what Kyubey stated.

Please, I beg you, read every single word I wrote this time, what I've seen from what you said is that you are actually mostly agreeing with me, but you were always claiming that I have said something that I have never said at all, this seemed to be the biggest source of disagreement. --SayakaMadoka 02:07, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Relevant to your interest?

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Gender bender, Kyuko as a guy/prince. Nice, I still prefer yuri. --Mutopis 01:09, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Better?

yes! :3 --Mutopis 21:33, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

That some cute it makes me want to barf rainbows xD --BrickBreak 22:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

2chan chart

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2chan can really give you mixed emotions.

Moefication of Philosophers

I be damn...--Mutopis 22:04, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Philosophical Observations