Talk:Thermodynamics

I would like to contest the mathematics under the Energy Generation heading. They rely on the baseless assumptions that (1) humans are the only intelligent lifeforms that presently exist in the universe, or else that (2) only humans can make contracts with Incubators and become magical girls/witches. If we consult the Drake equation, the energy requirement can be reduced by at least a factor of 2.31 - likely more if we eliminate the factors f_c and adjust L to correspond to the entire time span of the species' sentience, as having a technically advanced civilization capable of interstellar communication does not seem a prerequisite for the Incubators to do their work. -24.130.114.96

The energy output section was copied wholesale from an anonymous 4chan post, and I never got around editing it. If it can be refined in anyway, we will highly appreciate it. Prima 05:00, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I am the poster in question, that post was made after Episode 9 and does not account for the new information presented in Episode 10, namely that Kyuubey has a quota to fill and that he is not interested in a perpetually sustained Earth (this also eliminates the much lower energy output estimate for generating enough energy to prevent heat death on Earth itself, about 3,05 petajoules per Grief Seed at the rate of 40 Grief Seeds/second.) Humans were presumed as the sole de novo energy generators due to the relatively recent origin of the discovery of magic and magical girls by Incubators. Nevertheless, I'll address those problems as soon as I find the time and add a section regarding energy expenditure of magical girls, taking the pollution of soul gems into account. It was suggested a few weeks ago that a magical girl may be able to generate tangible, permanent clones of herself to attack much in the same way Mami and Sayaka summon muskets and swords, keeping her Soul Gem safe in hands of a spare clone in the process. I am particularly interested in testing whether this is plausible for the average magical girl. If you notice any additional issues, please do point them out so that they may be accounted for. Croases 14:06, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

the relatively recent origin of the discovery of magic and magical girls by Incubators

What evidence is there for this? I don't recall any.

Personally, I'm inclined to think Incubators are from far in the future, when the heat death of the universe would be a more imminent concern - making whether the discovery is of 'recent origin' a rather moot point. (It would be odd if they could grant Homura the ability to travel in time but were entirely incapable of doing so themselves.)

In any case, there should still be at least one other intelligent life form in the universe the Incubators could prey upon, assuming detecting and reaching whatever distant planet they inhabit is not a barrier.

Another factor that just occurred to me; It's no given that all species can produce emotional energy on par with that of young human girls, especially since the Incubators themselves can't. Still, you could assume emotions are fairly rare among intelligent life, replace f_c with that factor using the same estimate of 0.01, and still have an alien race or two useful for their purposes at any given time. -24.130.114.96

I would also like to contest the assumptions under the Energy Generation heading. Basically, there is nothing that says that the Incubator-civilization has to maintain the same energy density everywhere in the universe. Technically, the Incubators (and whatever else makes up their society) need only to sustain life in their little corner of the universe, plus maybe a few others as "energy farms" (eg. Earth). Surely, the amount of energy that a Incubator needs to gather from a magical girl becomes much lower then? Snowwolf 19:15, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'd like to ask something: for the calculations, have you assumed an exponential function? Consider that the necessity increases exponentially, I mean, while a civilization exhausts a possible source of energy, like oil, they would develop technology to get another sources, like solar (with initial inefficience) or geothermal (with a high efficiency), and thus after they nearing exhaustion, they wil develop technologies, like using the power of sun and even going into more, like using the power of galaxies. In later stages, civilizations would be tearing pieces of the universe to meet their energy demands. So, that would be the reason why they need such large quantities of energy. 201.74.179.50 01:08, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Not to be a killjoy.. But Kyubey says that the thing "is done to extend the lifespan of the universe". Which does not necessarily entail any for ever. Once you ditch this enormous condition from the problem data, in the most extremely simplified edge case you'd just need the energy of each (or set of) Grief Seeds to be greater than whatever Earth Incubators have ever spent on them (for their 'system' to still make sense, and for them to call it a satisfactory day as noted in the article about Episode 10). Which tbh blows away any semblance of gist from the calculations done. --Mirh 12:32, 7 August 2017 (UTC)