Talk:Charlotte
~~~~) at the end of your comment.One idea is that Charlotte is a patient in the nearby hospital, who either turned into a witch out of her own grudges or was forcibly turned into one under the theory that the Grief Seed there was planted on purpose. Here's some copy/paste regarding her involvement in EP3.
It may be that witches sense the feelings of people around them and reflect them in their gardens. This episode's witch appears near a hospital, so we get hospital-themed imagery with needles and drugs. Those are probably not suggesting drug use, because we had scissors in there too and those are more related to surgery. There's also an "In Operation" panel above a door in the garden. Those are probably related to Charlotte's own experiences, if we are to assume that she's a patient afflicted with some serious condition. However, other people's emotions and thoughts also seem to activate witches, when Mami talked about eating cake and how she isn't lonely anymore, the witch noticed the emotional change and woke up (hence candies everywhere during that scene. Those candies are perhaps celebrating the birth of Charlotte as a witch.)
Where do the sweets and the cake dragon come in? The witch herself was (or is) a patient in the hospital, probably a little girl judging by Charlotte's initial appearance and how the text and imagery in the witch garden (mainly dolls and sweets) lacked the sophistication Gertrude's Faust quotes, butterflies and roses had. As befitting a kid her age, she most likely loves sweets, but she has some severe illness and has to stay in the hospital permanently, and her diet needs to be strictly controlled due to her condition. So all she can do is watching other kids play and be happy and eat whatever they want while she's struck in the hospital waiting for her death. She starts cursing those children (and/or her own condition), and eventually (with or without outside interference) she starts turning into a witch.
Another point is that even though Charlotte's back did feature the cake dragon's face, the dragon itself exploded out of her when Mami constricted her first form. That second form could be a reflection of Charlotte's (probably gastrointestinal tract-related) condition, the source of her grudge. Both Charlotte and the cake dragon have red spots on them, instead of strawberries or candy, those could be related to Charlotte's medical condition. Say, they could represent erythema nodosum, a symptom of Crohn's disease (which is far from obscure, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that it was used.) Helminths are another possibility due to the similarities between the cake dragon and a parasitic worm, but helminths are generally easy to treat and won't cause the sort of effects presupposed here.
So the scenario is thus: Little girl is hospitalized due to serious medical condition (eg. Crohn's disease), is a bit of a glutton but can't eat anything she wants due to dietary regulations (hence candy imagery in her garden), starts to curse the hospital she's stuck in (hence hospital imagery in her garden) and the children who can play outside the hospital without a care in the world. This curse starts turning her into a witch. Mami comes along and starts talking about cake, unintentionally pissing off Charlotte (since her grudge mostly has to do with not being able to do/eat as she wishes) Charlotte awakens and decides on eating Mami, she gets her ass handed to her instead. In her childish rage, the source of her curse takes over as the cake dragon (which is actually her intestines) and chomps down Mami. Alternatively, Charlotte was awakened by Mami's emotional turmoil, but homed in on her because she believed Mami to be a large lump of cheese, under the theory that witches view the world differently. Accordingly; Mami, Sayaka and Madoka all appeared as food to Charlotte, but she immediately went after Mami because she saw Mami as her favorite food, cheese.
How do I add my name and date on this I am not good with the internet --Croases 13:46, 22 January 2011 (CST)
- Here's my guess. There are many levels inside the witches barriers. Charlotte's barrier appeared near the the city's hospital and this resulted in her barrier look. As we can see the first levels are all hospital themed but the last one isn't. It's made of sweets. Same goes for Gertrud's barrier. First levels doesn't look like the last one at all. Commie 13:46, 22 January 2011 (CST)
- I'd say the last one is a mix, because in the scene where Mami does her gun-kata fighting against the Pyotrs/minions, you can see a surgery room light in the background. --Piparkaq 06:18, 27 January 2011 (CST)
- >How do I add my name and date on this I am not good with the internet: Add four tildes (~) after your post. Alternatively, there is a "add your signature" button in the toolbar. --Homerun-chan 16:35, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
does this mean there was a mahou shoujo in the hospital? --89.244.165.11 9:26, 27 February 2011 (CST)
The thing that bugs this anon about Charlotte's Grief Seed is that it is just suddenly there. It's not like Sayaka's transformation, where it looks like the witch's barrier manifests immediately. It's just hanging there on a hospital wall in plain view of everyone until it is able to create a barrier, (although there's some indication that it was invisible to ordinary people; it's Madoka who notices the Grief Seed, while Sayaka just passes it by and only seems to notice when Madoka points it out.) Now we haven't seen a familiar become a witch, but it seems very unlikely they just suddenly become a growing Grief Seed in between their transformation. So where did the Grief Seed come from? I believe that question was actually asked out loud by one of the characters, but no answer was given. Did Kyuube plant it? Is there some bizarre extra-dimensional space that Grief Seeds fall out of? If there is an extra-dimensional space, could it be related to the reason why corpses inside a witch's barrier vanish, even if the witch dies? And why did Homura say to Mami that Charlotte was different? Was it because Mami died to Charlotte in her timeline? If so, why was she so surprised when Mami's bindings vanished?
tl;dr There are a lot of unanswered questions about Charlotte and the appearance of her Grief Seed, and the most obvious answers only raise more questions. 24.187.7.217 21:43, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Charlotte and Goethe
I noticed nothing has been mentioned about the connection of the name "Charlotte" with Goethe's life and work. Goethe loved a girl called Charlotte Buff, and despite the fact he was rejected, he based the main feminine character on her in his famous work "The sorrows of young Werther", where Werther unrequitedly loves a girl called Charlotte (Lotte). I don't think this connection is casual, since Goethe is very important in Madoka's background. Should i add this to the page? Onpu-chan 16:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
- You're right, I now remember reading Werther back in high school. Feel free to contribute, no need to ask ;) --KFYatek 17:00, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Grief Seed Hatching Theory
We know that Sayaka's Grief Seed hatched immediately. We also know that Madoka's did as well.
We also know that the more despair a magical girl is in, the faster her Soul Gem grows dark.
Finally, we know that Grief Seeds can not only absorb ambient grief (notably used to cleanse Soul Gems and restore magical power to them) but also backed up by Kyubey saying that using magic near a Grief Seed will make it hatch faster (and magic, in a way, empties a Soul Gem and makes it easier for grief to accumulate).
Therefore, my theories are as such:
1- The more grief a magical girl had at the time of her transformation, the faster she hatches. This would make Charlotte someone who was indeed in the hospital (or near it) when her Soul Gem was overcome, but she didn't have enough grief to hatch immediately.
2- Charlotte's Grief Seed was mishandled by another Puella Magi; as Kyubey said, a Grief Seed from a defeated Witch will hatch again if it absorbs too much grief, and this is why he consumes them.
3- A familiar which turns into a Witch has a hatching period. Therefore the transformation from familiar to Witch wasn't instantaneous, and Charlotte wasn't a Puella Magi at all but rather a familiar.
As for why Charlotte's barrier is themed around the hospital, the answer is that it really has nothing to do with her wish or her life. The first layer of a Witch's barrier is a loose interpretation of where the Witch is located in the physical world. The final layer of a Witch's barrier is based on her personality (usually not even related to the wish made by the Witch if she was a Puella Magi). Every layer between the first and last are progressive steps toward the next one. Using Charlotte's as an example:
1- Hospital, no sweets to be seen right off the bat (FIRST) 2- Hospital with sweets in medication bottles 3- Sweets with hospital allusions, like the surgery room or giant syringe 4- Sweets all over the place, no hospital allusions at all (LAST)
Make sense?
Charlotte's Mother
When Kyubey approached during an emotional moment, Charlotte wished to share a cake with her mother one last time. After they ate the cake and the mother died, Charlotte realized that she could have wished to cure her mother, and quickly became a witch. I swear, everytime I learn something new, I never think I cant hate Kyubey even more than I do... --Mutopis 04:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
- I added another version to fully explain Kyubey's actions and his reasoning behind them. Now imagine that scene fully animated, maybe with Yuno's VA as Charlotte, with tears flying as she turns in a SHAFT head tilt when Kyubey offers his constructive criticism. Another millisecond has been added to the universe's lifespan. KM 12:38, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
- It's interesting I guess as a fanfic. I think the PN information on Charlotte's wish is touching enough without making up things about her mother and Kyubey. But, I get the feeling the fanbase is going to start believing the fanfic and lose sight of the true revelations. --randomanon 07:44, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
- I just had a thought.
Remember when Homura crushed the doll that killed Charlotte and how some people thought that the doll was the Witch's true body?
Hear me out on this:
There is the theory that Charlotte's mother was dying of cancer, and Charlotte used her wish for a cheesecake to share with her mother. But she ate it all, and when her mother died, she realized that she could have used her wish to save her mom, thus resulting in her Witchification.
That doll that Homura stepped on may actually represent Charlotte's mother, and there may have been a bond between the Witch and the doll. This 'bond' represents the relationship Charlotte had with her mother while she was in the hospital and may represent the hope that they could spend their time eating sweets together if she had survived the surgery. And when you recall the theory that Charlotte wished for cheesecake to share with her dying mother but it all for herself, it makes more sense, as cheese symbolizes her mother. This would explain why when the doll was crushed, Charlotte died. Because when her mother dies, she realized she could have used her wished to rescue her mom. So when the doll died, so did Charlotte.
Does any of this make sense? --SPDUDE48 14:46, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
New Fan-Art
I feel like the page is a bit outdated on it's art... Can I upload some new ones? :3 Espeon 18:18, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Still no description?
Why does summer Charlotte still have no description (Swimsuit Nagisa's doppel)? Is it the same as the base doppel? --NepetaLeijon27 (talk) 16:54, 1 August 2023 (UTC)