Talk:Uwasa of the Commoner's Horse

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Localization differences

Exedra dropped today, and apparently the Uwasa is named "Uwasa of the Waiting One's Horse" in it. How do we plan on addressing that discrepancy? EPF (talk) 09:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

I wouldn't move the page just yet, but we should create a redirect to something like Uwasa of the Commoner's Horse#In Magia Exedra. Amaterasu (talk) 17:43, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

That screams of a localization error, so I'd definitely hold off on moving the page. "Waiting One's Horse" is just a very bizarre phrasing. Of course, it's still possible they did it intentionally, but... ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 01:10, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

I mean, the Fan-TL is "Awaiters'", which is semantically definitely closer to "Awaiting One's" than "Commoner's". It's much closer to what jisho.org says, too. It's true it's a little awkward, but it's more accurate EPF (talk) 07:34, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

"Awaiter's Horse" is still weird but not quite as bizarre and awkward as "Waiting One's Horse". I'd still consider it a questionable translation, but I don't know what would be better. I especially don't know if the phrase being translated as "Commoner's Horse" or "Awaiter's Horse" is something that has an idiomatic meaning in Japanese. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 02:21, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

Consider they probably can't use Fan TLs at all for copyright reasons. Awaiter sounds more natural, but someone else came up with it first. As for the meaning, Jisho says it's both "1. person being waited for​" and "2. person who waits​", which is kind of awkward and lowkey impossible to translate into English neatly. Just because it's new and different than the previous localization doesn't mean it's wrong EPF (talk) 12:22, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

You seem to be suggesting that they can't use Awaiter because the fan translation did, which is just ridiculous. I do understand that it's something that's difficult to translate, but I think I'm perfectly justified in calling it wrong when the result sounds bizarre and awkward and un-English. Also, unless it's meant as a pun, it can't mean both the person waiting and the person being awaited. It can mean one or the other. Which meaning is intended in this case? And if it is meant as a pun then that needs to be conveyed in the translation – a pun should, ideally, be translated as a pun or similar wordplay. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 12:56, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

I mean, I can't know for sure *why* they didn't use "awaiter's", it might as well be that nobody even thought of that. It doesn't really matter, anyway. As for the dual meaning, is it really so incomprehensible that a word can be a contronym in one language but not the other? The word causing arguments, "マチビト", is more commonly spelled with kanji as "待ち人", with "待ち (machi)" meaning "wait" and "人 (bito)" meaning "person". I can easily see wait-person meaning both. And I'm not making things up, just look at that jisho entry for love's sake. Here, I'll link it again: https://jisho.org/search/%E3%83%9E%E3%83%81%E3%83%93%E3%83%88 EPF (talk) 06:34, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Of course a word can be a contronym in one language but not another. I looked at your Jisho entry at least twice already. I'm not disputing the word's meaning. However, when a contronym used, most of the time only one of its two opposite meanings is intended. A translator's job is to figure out which one and choose a word in the target language that has the same meaning. It doesn't need to also be a contronym. It's also a translator's job to determine if perhaps the contronymy is being used as a pun, in which case it's their job to find a phrasing that also has both opposite meanings. Finally, it's also a translator's job to make the result sound as natural as possible in the target language. "Awaiter's Horse" passes that last bar; "Waiting One's Horse" does not. Neither passes the bar of preserving the contradictory meanings, if those were intended (I'm betting they were, since it wasn't spelled in kanji). At the moment, the best translation I can think of that avoids picking one of the two contradictory meanings is "Horse of Waiting". That still doesn't quite pass the bar of sounding natural in English though.

We should definitely have a redirect for the translation used in Exedra, and probably mention that name on the page as well. But taking it as the primary translation just sounds bad.

If I recall correctly, "Commoner's Horse" was used on the NA Magia Record server, right? Leaving that as the primary translation when we know it to be inaccurate also seems kind of bad. The Magia Union translation (I assume that's where "Awaiter's Horse" comes from?) seems like the least bad option right now, though it still doesn't pass all the bars to be considered a "correct" translation. I vote we move this page to the MUT name. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 23:03, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Nope, MUT has a policy of keeping NA's TLs as much as possible, unless they are absolutely idiotic (like Darc -> Tart). They wouldn't have touched it. It's a pre-NA server translation, think 2017~2019 or so. MUT started around 2020/2021, when NA died. EPF (talk) 05:27, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

I hope you're not calling "Darc" absolutely idiotic, because it's a totally reasonable realization of Tart's name. After all, her full name is Jeanne d'Arc. Anyway, that aside, you're saying Commoner's Horse wasn't used on the NA server? In that case, what was used on the NA server? ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 12:38, 31 March 2025 (UTC)