Difference between revisions of "Talk:Glossary"

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(Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl)
(Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl)
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Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that:
 
Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that:
"Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
+
"Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. (Unless you want to call it "Puella Magi ________ Magica" every time, and that's just ridiculous.) [[User:Aster Selene|Aster Selene]] 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:34, 23 April 2011

requires a redesign, I don't know how to do it..

Like, a new template which includes the japanese info, the english intepretation, and a thumbnail? --Sayaka 05:54, 20 January 2011 (CST)
exactly Commie 05:56, 20 January 2011 (CST)

If anyone is a coding wizard, please redesign the template at Template:Card_2 so that it looks nicer!

--Fallacies 03:12, 28 January 2011 (CST)

japanese translations only?

I noticed that the last sentence of "Soul gem" is not translated from the glossary on the webpage. Should we separate such things out, or is it fine to mix? Oatmeal 10:46, 16 February 2011 (CST)

I noticed it too, but I left the sentence since it explains a former unknown side of soul gems. Perhaps we could divide the official definition and further notes, e.g.
Official Text
Notes
--Anon-kun 11:15, 16 February 2011 (CST)
I think we better put non-official info outside the template (see below), so we can add miscellaneous informations this way too, e.g. barrier's appearance, familiar's role when they're not fighting (in Inukare interview), grief seed appearance and such. --0x99 12:00, 16 February 2011 (CST)

Purposed page style

Barrier

Witch ep2 entering.jpg
Barrier (結界 Kekkai)
An otherworld used by Witches to conceal themselves. Should a normal human wander in by accident, it is impossible for them to escape.
Image: Madoka and friends entering Gertrud's barrier.

Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Sed molestie augue sit amet leo consequat posuere. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis.

Familiar

Ulla screen.png
Familiar (使い魔 Tsukaima)
Lesser monsters divided out of the essence of a Witch. Though normally assigned the task of maintaining and defending their parent-witch's barrier, it seems that they can eventually gain independence and stray to form their own barriers. Further growing, they take on the form of their parent.
Image: Ulla, Suleika's familiar in his own barrier.

Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis. In condimentum facilisis porta. Sed nec diam eu diam mattis viverra. Nulla fringilla, orci ac euismod semper, magna diam porttitor mauris, quis sollicitudin sapien justo in libero. Vestibulum mollis mauris enim. Morbi euismod magna.

Familiar vs Minion

What's the wiki-wide guideline on usage of familiar vs minion? A quick search shows that we use the two words interchangeably. Should we just stick with familiar, since it's in the glossary? Prima 07:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Up till now I don't think there has been any guideline. Since the "official" term is familiar (使い魔) and not minion (手下), it would be relevant to stick with "familiar". The problem if we want to revert the existing pages is to skim through all the pages and change it (plus sometimes, "minion" is used to avoid repetition so we can't really use an automated solution either) --Homerun-chan 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl

Let me make my reasoning a bit more clear: The important part of Kyubey's words in episode 8 is "In this country," In other words, the characters are speaking normally: plain, everyday Japanese, which, by extension, would be translated into plain, everyday English subtitles. If we were really supposed to be hearing the more exotic "puella magi" whenever we heard the words "mahō shōjo":

  • Kyubey wouldn't have emphasized this in the first place, and it would have been kept vague.
  • We would have heard "puella magi" in Engrish (Ratin?), as with Soul Gem and Grief Seed, anyway.

I always preferred magical girl, myself, but I'd admit it was a bit of a toss-up—until now. —MomoiroKakarichou 01:04, 25 February 2011 (UCT)

Eh. It's not like "magical girl" isn't already in the entry. What it's listed under is largely a matter of aesthetics. --Fallacies 01:07, 25 February 2011 (UCT)
Addendum: There is an argument to be made for the simultaneous correctness of multiple 'possible' interpretations. --Fallacies 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UCT)
The title's one thing (Japanese to Latin by the creator's choice), but then there's the actual term used in the dialogue (Japanese to English). I don't think the characters themselves would could be saying either/both at this point.
MomoiroKakarichou 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Another theory - "Puella Magi" represents the term as coined originally, since Kyubey obviously isn't Japanese :D It may be the term in Kyubey's original language. Your reasoning does make sense in a way, but firstly, "Puella Magi" is in the "official" romanized title, and secondly - well, it's all over there in the wiki. Editing every entry to change "Puella Magi" into "magical girl" would be too much of a burden :D --KFYatek 02:24, 25 February 2011 (UCT)

If puella magi was the original term, I think it would only strengthen my case here, since both terms would exist side-by-side in-universe (expanding on the Ratin bullet point above).
I went into the difference with the title above. The title was what actually what kept it either/or for me, but I think this line gets rid of that ambiguity rather handily. I agree that changing it everywhere would be a royal pain, but, well, it wouldn't have to happen overnight or anything. Another thing for the "To Do" pile, I guess.
MomoiroKakarichou 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Let me put it more directly:
  • The Mahou Shoujo -> Majo Pun does not work in English, given that the term "Magical Girl" does not have anything to do with the term "Witch."
  • Per the above, "Mahou Shoujo" being correct in Japanese does not make "Magical Girl" a proper parallel term / equivalent in English; it doesn't have the same lingual characteristics that make the pun succeed in Japanese. If the term for "Witch" in English were not "Witch," but something like "Magical Woman," I would not be saying this.
  • The only official translation for "Mahou Shoujo" in Roman alphabetization is "Puella Magi." Irregardless of whether or not this is proper Latin, it's official.
  • The term "Mahou Shoujo" is intended for consumption by a Japanese audience. No actual officially approved translation of the term as it appears in dialogue presently exists, and no translation fans provide can be officially correct.
I really don't understand why you're being so insistent on an unofficial translation like "Magical Girl" being "more" correct than something supplied by the creators. If you must, add this thing as a speculah. It's bad form to make out a pet theory as something resembling an official translation or canon by editing the title of the Glossary term. Further, how exactly does this one line by Kyuubey get rid of the ambiguity? Regardless of how you cut it, we don't know what precisely the creators' intended translation is -- only what they intended for the Japanese. --Fallacies 04:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

when you take the first and the last kanji of mahou shoujo you get majo. it´s better to leave it at this 魔(法少)女

Not that argument again... How many times has it been discussed in the threads up till now? Nobody uses Puella Magi in the actual show, the only occurrences being the title (which is the title of the franchise, just like the "(...) Lyrical" in Nanoha's titles) and gg being gg. Anyway, if people insist in thinking gg's right, then why can't we admit that both translations are possible? Why don't we just put "Puella Magi (Magical Girl)" in the glossary entry or something? --Homerun-chan 09:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

gg's subs is not only occurence save the title. Shini-tan's scanlation of the manga also uses "Puella Magi" where "mahou shoujo" originally was. But you're right in the point that this discussion is quite meaningless. --KFYatek 12:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Note that I'm not saying that "Puella Magi" is a more or less correct translation for "Mahou Shoujo" than "Magical Girl" as it appears in dialogue. I'm saying that in the absence of an official translation for the term in dialogue, nobody should be discarding "Puella Magi" as being less correct than "Magical Girl" -- given that it's actually supplied by the creators. Further, the current entry title is "Puella Magi" (魔法少女 Mahō shōjo, lit. Magical Girl), with the unqualified "Puella Magi" simply being a header used for purposes of neatness and organization in wikicode and layout. Per the above, argument that "Magical Girl" is more correct on the basis of a pun that only works in Japanese doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Argument for the exclusion of one of the terms from the glossary entry or the superiority of one term over the other doesn't make sense either. This is not a defense of gg's translation. --Fallacies 18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

the soul of the mahou shoujo becomes the witch while the body is left empty (makes sense since the soul is seperated from the body). the fact that the soul gem turns black during the transformation may be because the soul leaves gem

Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that: "Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. (Unless you want to call it "Puella Magi ________ Magica" every time, and that's just ridiculous.) Aster Selene 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)