Talk:Glossary

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requires a redesign, I don't know how to do it..

Like, a new template which includes the japanese info, the english intepretation, and a thumbnail? --Sayaka 05:54, 20 January 2011 (CST)

exactly Commie 05:56, 20 January 2011 (CST)

If anyone is a coding wizard, please redesign the template at Template:Card_2 so that it looks nicer!

--Fallacies 03:12, 28 January 2011 (CST)

japanese translations only?

I noticed that the last sentence of "Soul gem" is not translated from the glossary on the webpage. Should we separate such things out, or is it fine to mix? Oatmeal 10:46, 16 February 2011 (CST)

I noticed it too, but I left the sentence since it explains a former unknown side of soul gems. Perhaps we could divide the official definition and further notes, e.g.

Official Text
Notes

--Anon-kun 11:15, 16 February 2011 (CST)

I think we better put non-official info outside the template (see below), so we can add miscellaneous informations this way too, e.g. barrier's appearance, familiar's role when they're not fighting (in Inukare interview), grief seed appearance and such. --0x99 12:00, 16 February 2011 (CST)

Purposed page style

Barrier

Barrier (結界, Kekkai) An otherworld used by Witches to conceal themselves. Should a normal human wander in by accident, it is impossible for them to escape. Image: Madoka and friends entering Gertrud's barrier.

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Familiar

Familiar (使い魔, Tsukaima) Lesser monsters divided out of the essence of a Witch. Though normally assigned the task of maintaining and defending their parent-witch's barrier, it seems that they can eventually gain independence and stray to form their own barriers. Further growing, they take on the form of their parent. Image: Ulla, Suleika's familiar in his own barrier.

Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Proin vel ante a orci tempus eleifend ut et magna. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus luctus urna sed urna ultricies ac tempor dui sagittis. In condimentum facilisis porta. Sed nec diam eu diam mattis viverra. Nulla fringilla, orci ac euismod semper, magna diam porttitor mauris, quis sollicitudin sapien justo in libero. Vestibulum mollis mauris enim. Morbi euismod magna.

Familiar vs Minion

What's the wiki-wide guideline on usage of familiar vs minion? A quick search shows that we use the two words interchangeably. Should we just stick with familiar, since it's in the glossary? Prima 07:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Up till now I don't think there has been any guideline. Since the "official" term is familiar (使い魔) and not minion (手下), it would be relevant to stick with "familiar". The problem if we want to revert the existing pages is to skim through all the pages and change it (plus sometimes, "minion" is used to avoid repetition so we can't really use an automated solution either) --Homerun-chan 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Puella Magi vs. Magical Girl

Let me make my reasoning a bit more clear: The important part of Kyubey's words in episode 8 is "In this country," In other words, the characters are speaking normally: plain, everyday Japanese, which, by extension, would be translated into plain, everyday English subtitles. If we were really supposed to be hearing the more exotic "puella magi" whenever we heard the words "mahō shōjo":

• Kyubey wouldn't have emphasized this in the first place, and it would have been kept vague.
• We would have heard "puella magi" in Engrish (Ratin?), as with Soul Gem and Grief Seed, anyway.

I always preferred magical girl, myself, but I'd admit it was a bit of a toss-up—until now. —MomoiroKakarichou 01:04, 25 February 2011 (UCT)

Eh. It's not like "magical girl" isn't already in the entry. What it's listed under is largely a matter of aesthetics. --Fallacies 01:07, 25 February 2011 (UCT)

Addendum: There is an argument to be made for the simultaneous correctness of multiple 'possible' interpretations. --Fallacies 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UCT)

The title's one thing (Japanese to Latin by the creator's choice), but then there's the actual term used in the dialogue (Japanese to English). I don't think the characters themselves would could be saying either/both at this point.

—MomoiroKakarichou 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Another theory - "Puella Magi" represents the term as coined originally, since Kyubey obviously isn't Japanese :D It may be the term in Kyubey's original language. Your reasoning does make sense in a way, but firstly, "Puella Magi" is in the "official" romanized title, and secondly - well, it's all over there in the wiki. Editing every entry to change "Puella Magi" into "magical girl" would be too much of a burden :D --KFYatek 02:24, 25 February 2011 (UCT)

If puella magi was the original term, I think it would only strengthen my case here, since both terms would exist side-by-side in-universe (expanding on the Ratin bullet point above).

I went into the difference with the title above. The title was what actually what kept it either/or for me, but I think this line gets rid of that ambiguity rather handily. I agree that changing it everywhere would be a royal pain, but, well, it wouldn't have to happen overnight or anything. Another thing for the "To Do" pile, I guess.

—MomoiroKakarichou 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Let me put it more directly:

• The Mahou Shoujo -> Majo Pun does not work in English, given that the term "Magical Girl" does not have anything to do with the term "Witch."
• Per the above, "Mahou Shoujo" being correct in Japanese does not make "Magical Girl" a proper parallel term / equivalent in English; it doesn't have the same lingual characteristics that make the pun succeed in Japanese. If the term for "Witch" in English were not "Witch," but something like "Magical Woman," I would not be saying this.
• The only official translation for "Mahou Shoujo" in Roman alphabetization is "Puella Magi." Regardless of whether or not this is proper Latin, it's official.
• The term "Mahou Shoujo" is intended for consumption by a Japanese audience. No actual officially approved translation of the term as it appears in dialogue presently exists, and no translation fans provide can be officially correct.

I really don't understand why you're being so insistent on an unofficial translation like "Magical Girl" being "more" correct than something supplied by the creators. If you must, add this thing as a speculah. It's bad form to make out a pet theory as something resembling an official translation or canon by editing the title of the Glossary term. Further, how exactly does this one line by Kyuubey get rid of the ambiguity? Regardless of how you cut it, we don't know what precisely the creators' intended translation is -- only what they intended for the Japanese. --Fallacies 04:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

when you take the first and the last kanji of mahou shoujo you get majo. it´s better to leave it at this 魔(法少)女

Not that argument again... How many times has it been discussed in the threads up till now? Nobody uses Puella Magi in the actual show, the only occurrences being the title (which is the title of the franchise, just like the "(...) Lyrical" in Nanoha's titles) and gg being gg. Anyway, if people insist in thinking gg's right, then why can't we admit that both translations are possible? Why don't we just put "Puella Magi (Magical Girl)" in the glossary entry or something? --Homerun-chan 09:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

gg's subs is not only occurence save the title. Shini-tan's scanlation of the manga also uses "Puella Magi" where "mahou shoujo" originally was. But you're right in the point that this discussion is quite meaningless. --KFYatek 12:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Note that I'm not saying that "Puella Magi" is a more or less correct translation for "Mahou Shoujo" than "Magical Girl" as it appears in dialogue. I'm saying that in the absence of an official translation for the term in dialogue, nobody should be discarding "Puella Magi" as being less correct than "Magical Girl" -- given that it's actually supplied by the creators. Further, the current entry title is "Puella Magi" (魔法少女, Mahō shōjo, lit. Magical Girl), with the unqualified "Puella Magi" simply being a header used for purposes of neatness and organization in wikicode and layout. Per the above, argument that "Magical Girl" is more correct on the basis of a pun that only works in Japanese doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Argument for the exclusion of one of the terms from the glossary entry or the superiority of one term over the other doesn't make sense either. This is not a defense of gg's translation. --Fallacies 18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

the soul of the mahou shoujo becomes the witch while the body is left empty (makes sense since the soul is seperated from the body). the fact that the soul gem turns black during the transformation may be because the soul leaves gem

Bringing back this discussion because I would like to clear up a common misconception, and you can base your opinions on that: "Puella Magi" is not intended to be magical girl; however, "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" does indeed mean "Magical Girl Madoka of the [male] Mage" ("magica" being the correct adjective for "magical"). Being a Latin student, I believe the entire title was supposed to be taken together, "magica" connected to "puella magi", so I really don't think "puella magi" should be cut off from the rest of the title like that. Do what you will with the thought, since I know how much hell it is to change an entire wiki to one term or the other, and at this point I believe it's too late to make any changes. But seeing as we've never seen any "Puella Magi" term without the "Magica" whenever it's used officially, I think one should reconsider the merits of that title. (Unless you want to call it "Puella Magi ________ Magica" every time, and that's just ridiculous.) Aster Selene 18:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

That's an interesting twist, but it feels contradictory to the official Japanese title, 『魔法少女まどか☆マギカ』 (Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magika) - "Madoka Magica" stays there in both version, and 『魔法少女』 (mahou shoujo - magical girl) gets directly substituted by "Puella Magi". That's why "Puella Magi" is used interchangeably with "magical girl", even though the meaning is not the same.
As you're a Latin student, I'd like to ask one thing - how would you pluralize "Puella Magi"? If my grammar googling skills are correct, the correct Latin plural would be "Puellae Magorum", but that somehow feels ridiculous. I read many other versions - "Puella Magi", "Puella Magis", "Puellae Magis" and "Puella Magi", ie. using the singular form as plural. What do you think? --KFYatek 18:48, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Coincidentally, should we try to stick with one form over the other in the episode summaries and character pages -- especially since we aren't sure of the plural form for "puella magi" right now? It's just a matter of searching and replacing, nothing difficult. Momoism 18:57, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, there are a lot of pages to edit. The plural form of "puella magi" should be "Puellae Magi", however (replace the nominative only). "magorum" is only viable if there is more than one mage ("Girls of the Mages" versus "Girls of the Mage"). Aster Selene 19:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

It's been a while, but IIRC we reached to the conclusion that both terms are correct, and we can use both interchangeably. However, while I was a supporter of "Puella Magi", given the pluralizing controversy, I now use "magical girls" everywhere I need to use plural...
"Puellae Magi" makes sense, thanks. --KFYatek 19:20, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Isn't an alternative translation for Puella Magi "Slave of the deceiver"? Given the nature of the show, I think that the title is supposed to be a hint towards the dual nature of the characters, both being the protectors of the world whilst also being tricked into one day becoming the very thing they're fighting. (31.205.88.25 01:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC))

...just where did you hear that? --Universalperson 21:16, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

It's not a common use, but according to wiktionary, puella can mean "slave." Source: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/puella 2601:5:A100:976:9825:A201:9665:B3A5 08:39, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Separating manga from anime references

As with the guest example of adding Kazumi reference of Jubey to the glossary, this is what I meant when I said manga references are going to mix in with anime and confuse people who aren't familiar with both. Either we need separate sections or pages for both or people need to keep an eye out and make sure things that are added are clear as to the source. -randomanon 18:21, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

As per glossary, I believe it's good to be generic and as spoiler-free as possible. Aside from being manga-centric, the mention of Jubey is a spoiler for Kazumi. Mention of the word "Incubator" would be generic, but even more spoilerish (spoiling as far as ep8). I believe I managed to word it in both generic and spoiler-free way in the last edit, but you may disagree. --kFYatek 18:32, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: KFYatek's comment: it's kind of hard how to word it; the existence of Jubey makes it clear that there are more Incubators, but we shouldn't use the word "Incubator" or mention Jubey to not spoil...

The problem is not all fans are going to consider what happen in the spin-off manga Kazumi to be canon to the anime. For all we know, Kyubey may be the only incubator in existence in Madoka the anime so even implying there are more out there is speculative as far as the anime is concerned. So that's why it's just best to keep things separate and not revise the anime glossary based on what we learn from the manga. Another example to give you an idea is Oriko's Kyubey that flies. He doesn't in the anime and maybe he can't there and it's just Oriko's creativity on writing that in. I wouldn't want to see that either in the glossary page that currently is dedicated to only the anime, as well as the locations and episodes page. It should all stay canon to the anime in my opinion, and manga sections clearly separated out. Like the character page, where the categories of manga-only characters are in their own sections. -randomanon 18:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, why doesn't "Witch" have its own article?

"Uwasa" and "Kimochi" do. N. Harmonik (talk) 18:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Don't know to be honest, but I've been working on collecting basic information for a page to be made (been a bit busy lately though.) -The Witch's House (talk) 19:42, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

So um, about the spoiler policy...

This is a glossary of terms, and the original anime is an ontological mystery. Don't you think anyone visiting this page should expect to receive spoilers for the original anime?

Like, I'm all for spoiler-tagging, for instance, Nemu's involvement in the creation of the Uwasa. That's sort of a big deal that you're supposed to find out as you're reading MagiReco for the first time. But stuff like "Magical girls have their souls moved outside their body as part of the contracting process" and "Magical girls become witches under sufficient emotional duress" are sort of "expected common knowledge" for most of the series, and trying to talk around it just creates awkward blocks of spoilertext for little additional benefit. Hell, a bullet point for "witch form" is included on every single magical girl's page, unspoilered.

Furthermore, knowing what the Law of Cycles is and how it functions is relatively important to MagiReco specifically, so it should probably have an entry here, and said entry should probably not be one giant paragraph of spoilertext, right?

SuzuneMU (talk) 09:51, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Separated soul gems?

It is unknown what would happen if a Soul Gem separated from its owner's body becomes black in Kamihama City, but it can be guessed that it would either shatter, become a Grief Seed, or hatch into a Witch.

I don't think this is accurate. I'm not aware of any evidence of what would happen if a soul gem separated from the owner's body becomes black outside of Kamihama, or for that matter any evidence that it's even possible for a separated soul gem to accumulate impurities. Is there some evidence I've missed? ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 00:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

There's two cases: In Sayaka's Route for the game, her body decays after being not in contact with the gem, but the gem still being within 100 meters. After she sees what she looks like, Oktavia hatches. Since in Kamihama, the curse is pasted on part of the body, it's unknown what would happen if it has several meters of distance between the user and the soul gem. The second case is if the soul gem is further than 100 meters: There was an interview that said that the gem would eventually get impure and hatch a witch. In Kazumi, it was noted that Niko's magic kept the Soul gems isolated and prevented them from becoming polluted. I'll try to see if I can find the interview soon. Sweet Beanie (talk) 09:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, I wouldn't consider Portable or random interviews to be canon content, but the detail about the effect of Niko's magic is at least soft evidence that an isolated soul gem is normally expected to eventually turn black. (It doesn't rule out the possibility that it wouldn't happen and Niko just assumed it would and made unnecessary countermeasures. That's why it's only soft evidence.) But there's also soft evidence that isolated soul gems won't accumulate impurities, in the form of the Souju twins and their collection. (Of course, maybe they also used some sort of magic to protect those gems.) At least your argument for why the body might be required for the APS to function does make logical sense, though it's clearly speculative. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 14:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Bloat

I think this glossary is starting to get a bit out of hand. It should be dedicated to short explanations of common topics. That means two things:

1. There should be no subheadings. The sections on Magical Girl, Witch, and Timelines in particular should probably be split to separate articles, since they have a lot of subheadings. (They could maybe remain on this page as well with a brief explanation and a link to the dedicated article, not sure if that's needed though.) I'm not sure what to do with the sections that only have one or two subheadings.
2. Some of the headings don't strike me as "common" topics, instead referring to a singular entity. The following sections seem like they don't belong on this page at all:
   • The Devil – This is just Homura post-rebellion, so all this info can be moved to the dedicated devil page.
   • Hyades – There is a dedicated page about these now, so this info can be moved there (if indeed there is anything new).
   • Irregularity – not 100% sure, but the fact that it refers exclusively to Tart suggests to me that it doesn't really belong in the glossary.
   • Philosopher's Stone – Again, I'm a bit unsure on this one, as there's not much to say about it, but it does refer to a singular entity so it seems like a bad fit for a glossary. I'd be okay with it staying here though, as long as it stays short.
   • Automatic Purification System – Once again, there is only one of these. It should probably go on a different page. The Kimochi subheading could maybe stay, but I'm not sure if that makes sense.
   • Lighthouse Theatre – I don't know what this is, but it's looking like it refers to a single entity, so it should probably have its own page, especially since it has several subheadings as well.

~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 14:24, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Note that many of the subheadings seem okay as entries on this page. They just shouldn't be subheadings, in my opinion. Nightmare for example could be promoted to a top-level heading. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 14:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll justify a few of these and get started on the changes.

The Devil: I agree that this can be removed. Maybe this can be changed after the new movie if she's established as a law of the universe like the law of cycles was.

Hyades: I agree that this can be removed unless there's more artificial humans in the future. Witch Hybrids should be moved to under Witches.

Irregulars: They're both Tart and things like Homura. Basically anything that Kyubey can't quite explain. I believe that this one should stick around as Kyubey's used the term at least three times for different reasons.

Philosopher's Stone: Yeah this is a weird one. It seems to be like a thing that is a law of the universe, like a Philosopher's Stone can be created through some process we don't know, but it was already there when I got here and I think it's relatively inoffensive.

APS: I think the APS deserves its own page, especially with the way it works. The Kimochi subheaing should stay in my opinion.

Lighthouse: It seems to be a law of the universe according to the teasers, but I'll get to removing it until we get more information to confirm or deny that.

Nightmares: Nightmares and things like Made in 168 are like familiars in my opinion. They both exist to just purify those in the mindscape labyrinth of Homura and Iroha. If they existed only in Rebellion for Homura, then I'd agree, but since it's been established that girls who are about to become witches can make them (like Homura and Iroha in the anime), I think it's safe to put them as subheadings for Witches.

Sweet Beanie (talk) 15:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Regarding "irregulars": Your explanation makes sense. The current entry seems like it might be a bit much, but it's still somewhat short so I guess it can stay. (Also, shouldn't Madoka also count as an irregular? Maybe Kyuubey didn't actually use the term for her, but right now she seems to fit the definition.)

Regarding the "lighthouse": Anything about that is essentially speculation at this point, but I suspect once Exedra is released it would likely merit its own page.

Regarding "nightmares": I did mention that we shouldn't have subheadings in the glossary, right? I don't see an issue with making it a main heading. Making it just a heading on a "Witch" page (and removing it from here entirely) would also be fine though. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 18:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

The Lighthouse Theatre does have its own page currently. Amaterasu (talk) 18:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I've cleared out nearly everything that I think doesn't belong. I'll probably be editing some of the sections later to shorten them a bit too, and I intend to add most of the deleted information to other articles. In case someone else wants to help with that, you can see the last version of the page before I deleted everything here, and you can view the diff that even shows the deleted comments here. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 22:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I also ain't sure if we should be keeping entries for all those different series in one place. Sure, all of the PMMM installments take from the 2011 anime, but stuff like evil nuts has little to no chance of being relevant in, say, Magia Record/Exedra Main Story or Walpurgistnacht:Rising, it's more of a self-contained concept limited in scope to Kazumi Magica. Well, with Exedra supposedly having more focus on the other series it might be relevant there, but I doubt it'd cross over into their SuzuMagi section, for instance. EPF (talk) 09:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Should there be a page specifically for the timelines?

I mean a page where we can gather the information for all the timelines, not just the ones for the original anime. I'd like to also put the explanations for Magia Record, Scene 0, Different Story, the PSP Game, Mobage, Wraith Arc and especially from INU Curry's twitter regarding Anireco's timeline and where it fits in, as well as other things such as paradoxes and the effects of Time Manipulation that we learned from the Arc 2 finale. Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Sounds good to me EPF (talk) 22:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't mind having a new page, but it sounds like a terrible idea to have a page called Timeline and a different page called Timelines. One of them should probably be renamed, but I'm not sure which one. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 21:19, 3 January 2025 (UTC)