Talk:Weapons

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Frivolous weapons argument

Creating in the same style as the locations page. jbw 18:47, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Existing work available here for reference. Prima 18:10, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks i'll use this to get the names down quickly and i'll add new images as i re-watch it on Bluray.
Oh how could I not see this page. I'm your man, leave it to me. BrickBreak 22:16, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
I'll take care of all firearms for now, but should we include other kinds of weaponry? BrickBreak 22:43, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Speaking of "other kinds of weaponry:" is it just me, or did Homura actually use a nuclear reactor against Walpurgis Night in Episode 11? Should that be included on this page? Momoism 00:39, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
A nuclear reactor? If you're talking about Homura's final attack, that was some sort of stadium or dome lined with explosives, I think. Sure the explosion looked gargantuan, but I'll say it again: stadium lined with explosives. Mushroom clouds and ungodly explosions aren't nuclear exclusive, any large explosion will do it: it's just very rare to see a non-nuclear explosion that strong. The most usual example is a thermobaric weapon. BrickBreak 00:58, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Considering that Homura was fighting Walpurgis in what was definitely an industrial area, we can be pretty sure that it wasn't a stadium. On watching that scene again, though, it looks almost like Walpurgis fell into something like a giant trap pit that Homura lined with rectangular bombs: there seem to be buildings along its perimeter, and the perspective suggests that the witch is below ground level rather than surrounded by high walls. How could she have set that up, though? Momoism 02:58, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
The Witch crashed into the ground, creating the very large hole you see. Homura stopped time and placed the explosives. Time was then unstopped and that's why the explosives only activated a few seconds AFTER the Witch crashed into the ground. They're 'proximity mines' by the way. Anything that crosses the sight/lens sets them off. They're called 'Claymore' proximity mines.
Those are absolutely not claymores. The explosives used were definitely of high yield: Claymores are fragment mines, they produce a small explosion, what kills is the high-speed ball bearings inside it. Hence why it's an anti-personal mine, poor against armor, and thus completely inadequate to use against Walpurgis, which apparently can take more fire than the Kremlin.
I can't say for sure, but my best bet is that it's C4. The light matches common C4 detonators, and being a plastic explosive, it's easy to shape the charges into blocks to fill any given area, and attach them to a surface, unlike solid explosives. As for the trigger, I'd be willing to bet it was remotely detonated: not point in placing down all those explosives if some poor idiot walked into the building by accident. And the explosives were definitely pre-placed: there's not enough time sand in the world to place them in the middle of battle.
Momoism, you're right about the industrial area. That should be some sort of large warehouse, then: the roof above surface, but the floor below. BrickBreak 16:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Who says she manually placed them, or even placed them before the fight? Her magic can very clearly deploy large amounts of weapons over an area, so why not in a preset configuration? More importantly, those do look like Claymores, and there ARE brands of Claymore that aren't fragmentation based. That said, for her to not have had placed them in advance, would require her to have known the fighting would make Walpurgis Night crash at that exact location. Sure, it's possible she could have... but that's a far stretch compared to them just being placed on the spot.
It's true Homura's hammer space works in mysterious ways, but all of her uses of involved either retrieving objects from her shield, or having them pop up in close proximity. She was clearly far away from the blast zone, and the explosives were firmly attached to the wall, to the point that they didn't fall when half the building was trashed by Walpurgis' fall.
It's not that much of a far stretch. Homura has fought Walpurgis before several times, and knowing her initial location and her reaction to her attacks, she could predict her movements. Definite proof is the implosion of the towers. Setting up explosives to implode a building takes a great amount of care and time, let alone do so in way that the building collapses in a precise direction. It was a precision strike, ready to use while Walpurgis was stunned by the mortars.
About the Claymores: taking another look at the scene, I see how can they be mixed up by them, the length and height are similar. However, I rechecked various sources: there is no high explosive Claymore, all of them are fragmentation mines. It is only natural, it's a purely anti-personnel weapon. A HEAT version wouldn't be useful against armor: it is simply too small. Anti-tank mines tend to be much larger.
Either way, it also straight-edged: Claymores are curved, to spread the fragments over a 60ยบ angle. They also have prominent edges all around, while the Claymore is round around the felt and right sides. Furthermore, Claymores do not possess that light in the middle: in fact, they possess none, Call Of Duty and other games just love to put lasers spewing out of it on the edges. No such thing exists.
Finally, Homura knows her weapons well. In fact, you can see her evolution from a normal girl to a weapons expert: she dropped her oversized, clumsy Desert Eagle and replaced with with a handy, precise Beretta. She has an M249 she used for heavy fire from distance, and an assault rifle she used for medium range defense while on the move. She clearly know when and how to use weapons. As I said above, even if there was a high-explosive version of a Claymore, it would never have the power of an anti-tank mine or another high-yield explosive. Given that all weaponry she used against Walpurgis is anti-armor (well, not the fuel truck...), it would be both inconsistent and a very bad decision to use anti-personnel weapons for her final attack on Walpurgis. Sorry to say this, but you are essentially calling her stupid by suggesting she used Claymores.
Phew, that took a while. BrickBreak 19:08, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


I just wanted to say that I think Mami's weapon looks like a muzzle loader, not a breechloader. That would make it a rifled musket, not a rifle. 72.77.96.152 03:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)Carrie

Thank you. Classic firearms are not my speciality :/ BrickBreak 16:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

On Homura's grenades: the one she uses to chase Kyouko away isn't very powerful, no. The one she uses on Roberta however obliterates the Witch and all of its familiars in (as far as we know) a single explosion. I'm not sure why exactly the episode 10 remark about it says it's not very powerful.

Copy paste after hours making that, sorry. But actually, while the one used on Kyouko isn't powerful enough to be an M26, the one used on Roberta is too powerful to be an M26. I think it's an HE version, though no such thing exists. Then again, there isn't a stun version either...
And in the end, we never get to see a proper frag M26. Urobuchi strikes again. --BrickBreak 01:58, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
To be completely fair here, holographic technology like Homura uses in her apartment doesn't exist either and that's not stopping her from having it. Mitakihara seems like an advanced town overall, it could just be that their local military has more potent stuff they're hiding. Holographic tech, ridiculous stun grenades, explosives that could take down a Witch in one hit, etc. The alternative is presuming that Witch barriers don't obey usual laws of reality in regards to weaponry, and this is why Homura can make pipe bombs that can take out Witches in one hit.

Oh, here's something that's missing: Homura's purple blasts of magic from episode 10 (and possible 1?) when she's chasing Kyubey in the latest (presumably) timeline. They seem to cause him to swell and explode, so it's doubtful that those blasts are from a weapon so much as just something Homura is producing. Unless we want to make a separate page for magical spells and effects in the same way as this one... in which case Mami's ribbons and string shots should probably be on there and not classified as weapons.

Yeah, that's a doubt I had from he start: what is and what isn't a weapon? I didn't included those shots because they're quite obviously pure magic, and are fired from her Soul Gem. But Mami's ribbons are a bit doubtful. I included them because they are an actual object, but it's debatable.
If you want to create such a page, go for it. It'll be somewhat shorter than this one, I think. --BrickBreak 18:03, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I would just like to leave a couple notes on the accuracy of some of the historical weapons described here. First, the cutlass is described as being best used for slashing. Straight swords and swords slightly curved backwards are designed to be versatile with stabbing remaining the primary method of attack. For examples of true slashing swords, one would look to the scimitar as an example for a slashing sword intended for cavalrymen, and swords such as the kopis or kukri for one intended to be used on foot. The longbow is described as a weapon that allows greater range and power at the cost of speed. I would not say this is inaccurate, but it is misleading. The length of the bow contributes insignificantly to the speed of the bow's recovery. It is almost solely the archer's personal strength and familiarity that determines how fast he can aim and loose an arrow. The true trades that a longbow makes compared to other bows is it allows for a very high draw weight, and thus, power and range similar to composite or recurve bows while remaining relatively cheap and easy to manufacture on a large scale. The downside of the longbow is that it is too cumbersome to be practical for horse archery, and would be very unwieldy to hold onto if caught in close fighting. The Viking battle axe is described as likely pure fantasy. There is no doubt at all it was pure fantasy. A Viking would sooner fight with a seax or a hatchet before using an extremely unbalanced, heavy, and expensive double-bit axe. Iron was not cheap. The other Viking entry, the Viking sword and shield, is described as resembling the Cawood sword but neither hilt nor what taper is visible match at all. The sword depicted has a very generic hilt that can't really be matched to any specific period examples (and frankly the depiction of Viking-era equipment is horrifying in this anime. That shield boss is going to give me nightmares.) I like the entry on pikes, but I would note I've never heard 'pikeheads' before, only 'spearheads' or more simply 'pikes.' Just a few notes for anybody editing this page to keep in mind. 66.219.225.11 10:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I wrote most of that, and, if I said below that I am not knowledgeable on classic firearms, I am much less so on other kinds of weaponry. I did some very basic research, but apparently (and obviously) it wasn't enough. Your input is thus greatly appreciated. --BrickBreak 12:10, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Criteria for this page

Since the discussion above pretty much derailed...

What should be considered a weapon and what shouldn't? After I started to consider (and post) weapons other than firearms, I realized there are some that are on the borderline. Namely, Mami's ribbons, and the strings that grow from her bullets: should they be considered weapons? I've put them there, but I am not sure if they're weapons, supporting assets that shouldn't be considered weapons, or mere magic. Need your opinion here.

Also, I've been uploading full screens so far, with 500px size in the page. In the cases of weapons that aren't heavily featured in the scene (pipe bombs in Charlotte's tongue, Mami's twin cannons, etc), it would be useful to upload cropped versions, but I'm not too keen on having pictures of different size/aspect ratio... BrickBreak 19:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I think what you're doing right now is perfect. Having there non-traditional weaponry listed will help this page differentiate itself from its imfdb counterpart. In regards to screen captures, my personal opinion is that all screens should be uncropped, since it will give visual context for where the weapon is used. If emphasis is needed, we can always highlight or circle the weapon. - Prima 21:01, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Mistake, or...

Episode 11 has "rose branch bow" listed on it. I don't want to check back to see if there was a flashback or something, but I thought that scene was from Episode 10...Aster Selene 04:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering about that, too, but then I remembered that at the beginning of ep11 (before the OP) there is a sequence of flashbacks from ep10. That particular shot is there, too, around 1:16. --KFYatek 11:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Actually, that shot is from ep 10. That exact shot is in the pre-OP of ep 11, while Kyubey is telling Homura she's the one who gave Madoka power, in flashbacks. However, it's in super-wide screen, so I just used the one form ep 10.
Oh, and... those names were given by me. I'm not exactly the best namer in the world, so if you have a better one, please do come forward with it. --BrickBreak 16:13, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Table config

This mostly goes towards KFYatek: how does the table look in full HD? Like, some big table with a tiny picture in the middle, or something? --BrickBreak 18:05, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Here's how does it look fullscreen: [1]. Not half bad, though it was actually quite ugly without the screencaps centered. I usually use a browser window of roughly half the screen width (1013px to be exact) and it looks perfect like that.
I actually realized the problem when I opened the page with Opera Mini on my phone (a few years old Symbian-based Nokia). All the images bigger than phone's screen get scaled to fit there, and it really looked ugly that way, especially without centering. I may try to make a screenshot or something later, but to be honest, I don't think there's much that can be done for that case. --KFYatek 10:46, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
I asked mostly because of the pic size. They're at 500px now, and I was wondering if that'd be too small for high-res screens. Specially considering I cropped some of them down to that size...
Anyway, if that is how it looks, wouldn't it be better to have the table set up to limit the image field to the image's size? Dunno how to do that, though... --BrickBreak 16:47, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
A dirty but perfectly working way would be to set the image column as width: 0. I tried previewing it on one section - [2]. I don't really know, isn't the "name" column way too wide that way? --KFYatek 21:16, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Indeed. So either increase image size, or just enlarge the description?
...I really gotta get a better PC. --BrickBreak 21:36, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
I'd just leave it as it is. It doesn't look too bad when the images are centered. A fair amount of folks with FullHD screens, myself included, don't even use full-width browser window most of the time, and the current layout is perfect for every width up to about 1470px. I can't really think of a better solution. --KFYatek 23:08, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Descriptions

Right now the descriptions for each weapon in each episode are copy pasted from the original. Would it be more interesting if after the first time it was shown, the next descriptions talk a bit about how they used the weapon and the context of that episode? Holycrap 19:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Not a half bad idea, but there's a problem with the most common weapons, in that their use does not often change. But by all means proceed. Right now I'm short on time :/ --BrickBreak 19:23, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Aoki weapons

Would it be useful to note the weapons that appear on Ume Aoki's original character designs and their differences from the final versions used in the show? For example, artwork Madoka's golden bow vs. anime Madoka's rose bow.--urutapu 04:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Very well noted. Fire away. --BrickBreak 21:37, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Rifles or musktets?

Okay, I am not a specialist on classical weapon, so I have no opinion on the issue. However, we've had different opinions on whether it's Mami's weapons are muskets or rifles. I went with muskets after this post:

I just wanted to say that I think Mami's weapon looks like a muzzle loader, not a breechloader. That would make it a rifled musket, not a rifle. 72.77.96.152 03:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)Carrie

I will revert the changes for now, particularly because they were only applies in two episodes, instead of every one. If it is indeed a rifle, please tell us why here. --BrickBreak 10:56, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

A rifle has a spiral or rifling in the tube, if it was a musket it would be smoothbore. Apparently Mami's weapon seems to be a rifle or maybe it is a Rifled musket. --Mutopis 18:58, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm inclined towards the latter. A rifled barrel does not mean the weapon itself is a rifle. I was trying to get an answer from someone who knows classic weapons in depth... but I forgot I'm supposed to be the weapons specialist around here :P --BrickBreak 19:13, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
We should go with rifle musket then... --Mutopis 20:33, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
It is my understanding that as rifling was originally done by hand, a rifled musket refers to smoothbore muskets that were given rifling by skilled gunsmiths. A firearm rifled from the start would simply be a rifle. The rifling as depicted is very regular and likely to be a proper rifle, but for all we know it was done by a magical gunsmith. Might as well flip a coin or try and match it to a specific model and research its history. 66.219.225.11 10:30, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
When they began producing long firearms with rifling in it, they were referred to as rifled-muskets. It was not until they made the switch to making breech loaders with rifling that musket was dropped and they were just called rifles. Mami's don't appear to be able to open at the breech, which fits with her throwing her weapon away and just summoning a new one. 72.77.70.94 23:46, 22 August 2011 (UTC)Carrie

About resizing the screenshot

I suggest that it is better to resize the screenshot from 500px to 400px in order to enlarge the area for description part. It is more comfortable for people to read the words. Is there any opinion?--User:Pikachu2000s 02:15 14 August 2011

What screen resolution are you using? We tested different sizes and table layouts before (you can see the discussion above, under "table config"), and eventually settled with this. In fact, it was more of an issue of increasing pic size for Full HD users. Can you take a screenshot of your browser and show us how it looks (with the 500px pics)? --BrickBreak 02:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Picture 500px.jpg
It is not comfortable to read the words when the description column is so narrow and the words are tightly packed. Actually, if people want to see the picture with higher resolution, they can click the photo to enlarge it, however, we cannot click to widen the description column.--User:Pikachu2000s 03:00 14 August 2011(UTC)

Adding Spin-off weapons?

Since we're already doing it to most of the existing pages like this (like Speculah:Grief Seeds for example), should we add the weapons from the two manga and the new mobile game here as well? --CrownClown 21:33, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Rebellion

Homura's arsenal from Rebellion.jpg

homura's weapons in the rebellion movie --Mutopis 00:43, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

will this page be updated with weapons info from the movie? --Mutopis 03:59, 26 April 2014 (UTC)