Talk:Riz Hawkwood

Note: Please always sign your name when editing talk page by putting four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your comment.

Name

I've been wondering for awhile, but why is Riz Hawkwood the main page name for this character? I don't think there's any justification for choosing Riz over Liz. As far as I know, it's either stated or implied to be a shortening of Elizabeth, and no-one in Europe would ever shorten Elizabeth to Riz, as they clearly distinguish a separate L and R. Furthermore, I don't know of any Italian name matching Riz. See on BehindTheName for example: Liz and Riz. Also relevant is Rizu, which appears to support Liz as the proper form. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 19:55, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

The manga calls her Riz, so it seems official enough to say thats her name. PureChaos (talk) 20:39, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

That doesn't seem official enough to me, honestly. Even an official translation can make mistakes. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 21:06, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

From what I can tell, there is one source in the Japanese manga that spells her name as Riz – that is, the page showing her profile and stats. I don't remember if the English translation really went with Riz, but if they did, that's likely the reason. However, given the full picture, it seems obvious to me that that was an error on the part of the author, given her full name of Elizabeth. Do we really have to keep that error as the "official" name of the character? ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 06:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

The official translation of the manga calls her Riz all throughout. To be fair, the Magia Record English Translations have Tart as Darc. At least the Liz translation makes more sense, but I'd argue to keep the more used version of Riz. Maybe if Exedra says her name differently we can have another discussion? Sweet Beanie (talk) 06:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Broadly speaking, I suppose I'd usually consider original-language occurrences as a higher authority than translated occurrences. I know she's called Liz Hawkwood in Magia Record, but I'm not sure if that's in the original Japanese version or if it was only on the North America server? ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 06:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

---

Going into a bit more detail here. (References on BehindTheName are already linked above.) From an in-universe standpoint, there are exactly 3 possible sources for the name "Riz". Keep in mind that her grandfather is stated or implied to be John Hawkwood, and her grandmother is implied to be a Visconti, presumably Donnina Visconti who was John's wife. This means her parents are most likely Italian, but there's a chance one (but not both) of them could be English or some other nationality.

1. It was completely made up, a priori. This is technically possible – people do coin entirely new names from time to time. But it doesn't happen very often, and I think it's very unlikely to happen in this case. Firstly, it's not a valid Italian word (Italian words cannot end in Z), so she'd have to have been named by her father; secondly, and this is quite unscientific, but I think "Riz" sounds really bad from an English-speaker's perspective. (We'll discount the possibility that it was intended to be "Rizu", based on her profile page in the manga.)
2. It's an Urdu name, a clipping of "Rizwan". Given the distance between Italy and Pakistan and the fact that contact between them in the 15th century would've been fairly limited, I think we can rule this one out.
3. It's a mispronunciation of her real name, Liz, by a Japanese speaker. Given that the author is Japanese, this option clearly outweighs the other two by a large margin, even if the author has explicitly stated that it's definitely Riz and not Liz.

From an out-of-universe standpoint, the only extant possibility is the name リズ which is explicitly a rendering of Liz, not Riz, whatever the original author might say to the contrary.

Technically the a priori option isn't completely ruled out, but it just doesn't make sense for any number of reasons.

The name Liz is a shortening of Elizabeth. This is just a fact. You can say "oh but her name is actually Liz, not Elizabeth", but the name is still a shortening of Elizabeth even that shortened name is technically her official name. Therefore, her full name must be either "Elizabeth Hawkwood" or an Italian variation thereof, most likely "Elizabetta". The shortening of Liz, which is English, favours the first; but it doesn't rule out the second.

Anyway. I'm not going to say we should change the page name, though I would definitely prefer if we did. I am only saying that all the evidence we have points to her name truly being Elizabeth. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 14:16, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

I think we should all agree on using the name spellings used by the most reputable source. Not judging by the name history but what the most relevant translation says. For example, for Tart that would be the Tart manga (Also it's Tart not Darc Magica). And for Reira, that would be Magia Exedra, since Reira is a game character. I get it tho, I also hate Lavi's name speling. Maybe Exedra will save us on that.Sweet Beanie (talk) 17:38, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

riz is an italian diminutive and it is rendered as リズ in japanese because it isn't a native japanese word. "riz" is also a french word -- "rice" -- and i think could easily have been chosen as her name to give her a matching "cute food name" theme with tart ("tart" is an actual historical rendering of jeanne's father's surname/title, but it was 100% chosen for the manga because it's cute)

i really don't think masugitsune would have fumbled "riz" while being just fine with "eliza" and "melissa". by your logic, he would have fumbled those into "eriza" and "merissa", which he did not. you also seem to be approaching tart magica as if it's not just a work of fiction based on jeanne d'arc's involvement in the hundred years' war. it is not intended as an accurate historical adaptation of jeanne d'arc's life. it makes plenty of historical or "nonsensical" fumbles. three of the antagonists are literally named "crow", "rabbit", and "kitty-cat" and those are never once implied to simply be nicknames or code names.

whether something is "logical" or "historically accurate" is irrelevant here; this is a madoka magica wiki, not a historical document. if the author says that something is true, i do not at all believe that it is our place to disregard it rather than record it. that is not the intention of a wiki. Onitora (talk) 18:02, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

First, I wouldn't conclude that "Riz" is an Italian diminutive based solely on a single sample. I can see that there is an Italian name that could be shortened to "Riz", and there existed one man who did shorten that name to "Riz", but he might have chosen that short form due to English influence, so while it's definitely a diminutive, it's not necessarily Italian. Mind you, whether or not it's Italian doesn't really matter for this purpose. Unfortunately though, it's a male name, so it's not relevant here.

Secondly, if it was meant to be "rice", then the katakana are wrong – it should've been rendered as just リ if that were the intent. So, while I can't rule out the possibility that it factored into the choice, it doesn't work to choose it as the sole source of the name.

I can see your point about not fumbling "Elisa" / "Melissa" yet messing up "Liz" / "Riz", but it's entirely possible for that to happen.

Regarding the antagonists, there is also nothing as far as I know that implies they are not simply nicknames or code names.

Personally, I don't think the words of the author, made external to the work, should be taken to hold much weight, especially not more weight than what's directly in the work itself. Of course, there could be errors, and if a revised edition is made to correct them, then that holds more weight than the earlier edition, but if the author pops up and says something that is directly contradicted by the work, generally I consider the work to win. That said, regardless of whether the work or the word of god is held as the higher standard, it's still reasonable to note that the author said that. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 00:42, 28 February 2026 (UTC)