Talk:Timelines/Original

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Don't include Exedra content in here. Exedra is not set in the same timeline(s) as its source materials, there are subtle changes. For instance, in MagiReco, Iroha's Doppel is Giovanna, but in Exedra's version of Magia Record Main Story, that's Griseldis. EPF (talk) 13:35, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

Exedra introduces variants, which are usually on the nightmare versions of the anime's windows. I haven't gone through most of them, but I thought it's worth keeping open to show these "possibilities". The wording around their introduction is still very obtoose so I'll have to look at them more. It's possible a bunch of them are events which couldn't have happened in any of the known timelines so it's good to have Exedra as an option, but I might also make a Miscellaneous Timelines page or smething of the sort.Sweet Beanie (talk) 14:27, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

I don't think that's really the case, EPF. For example, I'm pretty sure Griseldis was just an error and not an intentional difference; as far as I can tell, Exedra's version of Magia Record isn't intended to be any different from the original. Unless you can point to less subtle changes that can't be written off as a mistake, I think it's fair to include things from Exedra here… though, at the same time, I doubt there'd be anything to include that isn't already in the original Magia Record.

Regarding the special Nightmare stories, as well as the bonus stories in certain events and the permanent event, I think basically all of those should be thought of as additional extra timelines and thus not added to any of the Scene 0 or original anime timelines. So if that's what EPF meant by "don't include Exedra content", then I agree. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 14:50, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

46

Can I ask where this information came from: The duration of 32 days is almost entirely determined from Scene 0 – if considering the anime alone, each timeline could be considered to last up to 46 days. It is even possible that not every timeline is the exact same length, as the exact mechanics of how Homura's time travel works are unknown. However, for the purposes of this article, we assume exactly 32 days for each timeline, to keep things simple. Homura's time travel could work one of two ways: It rewinds to exactly 32 days ago (but having to wait 32 days between rewinds), or by going back into a set point in time. Regardless of which one it is, I don't understand how Walpurgisnacht's arrival would vary except maybe when the Magius are involved. Even if Homura switches universes when time traveling, like how it's theorized with the Kyosuke Guitar Timeline 3 conundrum, she wouldn't be able to know Walpurgisnacht's arrival if it changed. I've also never heard of the 46 day thing other than when people really want Walpurgis to arrive on the actual Walpurgisnacht. I think Scene 0 was so strict with the number of days given to us for a reason, it feels a bit frivolous to just throw that away.Sweet Beanie (talk) 19:08, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure, since it was other people who worked that out, but Timeline states it as an upper bound for the number of days. In other words, there is evidence that it could not be more than 46 days, but little or no concrete evidence that it was definitely less, and also no concrete evidence that it was exactly 46 days.

I didn't say anything about Walpurgisnacht's arrival varying though )at least not wildly – small variances of a day or less are probably believable). If the timelines do vary in length, it wouldn't be because of Walpurgisnacht – it would either be because she chose to go back before it arrived, or she managed to defeat it but then something went wrong a few days later and she decided to go back after all. Not that was have any evidence that timelines like the latter exist… but on the other hand, the Oriko Magica timeline is a good candidate for the former. Of course, all of that is only possible if Homura's timeline returns to a fixed point, rather than rewinding by a fixed duration, but since we don't know which of those is the case, I think we can't say for sure.

I don't think we can even conclude that every timeline in Scene 0 was definitely exactly 32 days. There are timelines that we don't see the ending of, like the early one where Mabayu is killed by Asiphae. Though, that said, it would be very difficult (if not impossible) to argue for a timeline of more than 32 days for any Scene 0 timeline. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 19:32, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

At the very least, we can agree that according to all the evidence available, Homura wakes up on day 1 and Walpurga arrives on Mitakihara on day 32. Homura can leave early, like in Oriko (though that isn't confirmed, maybe she was just in the corner lamenting everything), or defeat/survive/evade Walpy and then rewind back from day 52 for example all the way back to day 1. In that case, I think we should change the wording to reflect that Homura's awakening and Walpy's arrival are set in stone at least. I read the article and the 46 days assumption truly only seems to have popped up because they made the assumption that 1. It starts on March 16, and 2. They really wanted the day Walpurgisacht arrives to be the actual Walpurgis Night. I read through it and the section just starts with the assumption that Walpurisnacht arrives on May 1st, though by now that's been disproven by Scene 0. Below I've written a new version of the paragraph, I hope that it is accepted for the article:

• • • "The duration of 32 days is definitively established by Scene 0, however the exact mechanics of how Homura's time travel works are not yet fully understood. It is unknown if she can rewind time back to 32 days ago after the sand in her timer runs out, or only go back to the fixed point on Day 1 at the hospital, though the latter is heavily implied.
      It is also unknown if she can reset time before the 32 day limit passes, as Oriko Magica suggests, or if she could theoretically go back to the fixed point in the hospital from beyond day 32, after Walpurgisnacht passes.
      Regardless, the core, fixed points across timelines are Homura's awakening on day 1, the 16th and Walpurgisnacht's arrival on day 32, the 16th of the next month. Thus for this article, the 32-day cycle from awakening to Walpurgisnacht is the consistent framework in use." Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:43, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

I don't know that Walpurgisnacht's arrival is absolutely fixed though. At least, it's probably the same day in the vast majority of "core" timelines; but in the Magia Record timelines at least, it could easily be different, given there was an intentional call to summon her. Even in the "core" timelines it wouldn't strike me as odd if her arrival was off by up to a day in either direction. If I recall correctly, we do know (straight from Homura's mouth, though implied rather than explicitly stated) that there is some variance in her arrival. Maybe the variance wasn't enough to change the day, though. Still, I'd argue that the only truly fixed point is her awakening on day 1, even if Walpurgisnacht does indeed arrive on day 32 in every known non-MR timeline.

But there's still potentially another problem with scene 0's 32-day cycle. I haven't looked into it in great detail, but Timeline also indicates that the minimum number of days for the final anime timeline is 39 – the 16th of one month to the 23rd of the other. Maybe that discrepancy can be reconciled though, I'm not sure. Needs more investigation into where that conclusion actually came from. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 22:55, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

If you mean what she told Kyoko in episode 8, she was actively trying to not reveal all the information she had, especially with how she'd experienced Walpurgisnacht before. I don't think we should take that at face value and even then she just says that "Walpurgisnacht will appear at this area" and in Drama CD 3, I'd suggest it's much the same but I will elaborate further below.

But reading through the entire article many times over, I've come to a few conclusions, I'll just bring it all together:

The only concrete, undisputed temporal facts from the series are:

The 16th: Homura's timeline always begins on the 16th of the month when she is released from the hospital.

The 25th: Homura transfers to Mitakihara Middle School on the 25th of the same month.

The Month: The story takes place in a single month that is either March or May. This is based on school calendars, seasonal clues (foliage, clothing), and the 31-day requirement for the 16th to the 25th to fit. All other dates are extrapolations from these points.

Several things disprove the chart depicted in "Timeline 5: The Main Anime Timeline." Homura's talk with Kyoko, which explains Walpurgisnacht is arriving in two weeks couldn't have happened on the 9th. Particularly because Scene 0 proves that Mami dies on the 30th, Sayaka becomes a Magical girl on the 31st and Sayaka fights with Kyoko on the 1st of the month. All the three events always occur in the same points in time, and in Scene 0's framework, Kyoko's talk with Homura about Walpurgisnacht happening in two weeks happens on the 1st, or day 17. This would make Walpurgisnacht appear exactly 15 days later on day 32, the 16th. Something that suggests there's variation to when Walpurgisnacht appears is: 1. Drama CD 3 and Magia Record.

Drama CD 3: The Drama CD has been turned into two events for Exedra so we have an official script for it. Farewell Story Part II, Episode 8 has Homura talk to Kyoko, but it's difficult to place when exactly that happens. Day 32 falls on a Friday, but Homura says "The numbers indicate that Walpurgisnacht could arrive in Mitakihara as early as this weekend." and this is very similar to how in the anime she just said "statistics explain Walpurgisnacht will appear here". Homura could be using a white lie or a controlled disclosure and since this takes place before the final timeline, Homura may have learned to be more direct with Kyoko. When Homura says "The numbers indicate that Walpurgisnacht could arrive in Mitakihara as early as this weekend." she's being intentionally vague and doesn't reveal to Kyoko that she's a time traveler, nor do we see the fight with Walpurgisnacht. I'm rambling but my point is that the only line in existence (that I'm aware of) that supports that the date varies is this one in Drama CD 3: "The numbers indicate that Walpurgisnacht could arrive in Mitakihara as early as this weekend." and it can be chalked up to 1. It being a few days away from day 32, 2. Homura intending to be vague as she previously has been to Kyoko before. And if we look at how this is a timeline before the final one, where Homura gives an exact date, it can be viewed as Homura learning that it's better for her if Kyoko knows Walpurgisnacht's arrival date from the get go.

Magia Record: While there's a lot of events and arc 1 story chapters to go by, Walpurgisnacht's track to Mitakihara is altered by the Magius antenna. This is the one time where it's an exception to the rule since Walpurgisnacht never even makes it to Mitakihara.

Anyway, this is just a long way for me to say that I believe the day 32 means Walpurgisnacht has arrived is accurate. Sweet Beanie (talk) 08:24, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

All of this trouble stems from treating Scene0 as the same exact thing as PMMM, just with Mabayu present, and not a different timeline altogether like Magia Record. There are at least three distinct Homuras that went through at least some timeloops - 2011 anime (culminated in MadoKami), GameReco (culminated with Homura not restarting, and Madoka surviving), AniReco (culminated in a reset). I think treating Scene0 Homura as a fourth distinct Homura is best, due to mild discrepancies between PMMM and Scene0 that can't just be chalked up to "Mabayu was forgotten". EPF (talk) 07:31, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

Relevant mention of "46" I could find on the wiki - Talk:Timelines#Time_span. Nothing earlier than that seems relevant to the timespan. I don't know why Walpurgisnacht appears on the last day of the next month, though EPF (talk) 07:52, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

The only reason is that the theorists took it for granted that Walpurgisnacht appears on the actual Walpurgis Night Holiday. Nothing else. Sweet Beanie (talk) 08:24, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

Extra timelines

Shouldn't Oriko Extra Story be a subpage and Anireco be put here? Its stated on the page that Extra Story could be what happens when Oriko doesnt see Kriemhild Gretchen in her vision but that would make it a separate timeline, I think it would be okay to have its own page especially since Scene 0 Film 14 has its own page even though its very likely that its just the final timeline. And about Anireco... from this image mentioned on Talk:Timelines, Anireco is still a Homura timeline, its just that it was affected by Godoka after it ended (Thats what I understood from the discord stitch atleast). - TheresaFrog421 (talk) 14:00, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Since anireco was changed by Madoka that would make it a separate universe from the original and since Iroha made a contract before Homura could have time traveled, then that would also make it a separate universe from the main Magia Record too. I'll get to everything eventually, I'm just trying to get the scene 0 timelines documented well first and then I'll move on to the others. If we're lucky, Exedra will tackle Anireco and give us a definitive explanation since the discord stitch photo wasn't sustantial evidence and Doroinu has deleted the alleged tweet explaining anireco.Sweet Beanie (talk) 14:58, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

What do you mean by "separate universe"? It wouldn't be strange to consider each timeline as its own little universe, but I sense that may not be what you meant. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Maybe my mind is fried, but adding the anime timeline to the game timeline (calling it just Timeline/Magia Record) would save me a lot of headache actually. I'm all for it, but I'll get to it in a bit, there's a lot of stuff on the to-do list. But when I say "Universes" I mean if the Witch system is in place, if the Law of Cycles, or if they're anomalous (like Magia record the game, and the anime). Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:06, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Your use of "universe" seems a bit strange to me... I'm still not sure what you mean by it. I think at one point in the old timeline page I may have said there were two universes – main anime (counting Wraith Arc and Rebellion as part of the same universe) and Magia Record. But you seem to have a different idea of what constitutes a universe? ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 23:39, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Where is there any evidence that Iroha contracted before Homura time travelled? ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Iroha's been a magical girl for at least about a year or a few months. The Magius have been around for months at the very least.Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:06, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

That's not evidence, you've just pushed the bar back. Now you need to show the evidence for how long Iroha has been a magical girl and how much time passed between the formation of the Magius and the beginning of the main story. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 23:39, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Regarding Oriko Magica, there are definitely at least 2 distinct timelines there, possibly even 3. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Since Oriko exists anyway, the extra story, where Homura isn't involved, seems like the most logical idea as to what could have happened to the Oriko cast when Homura and co aren't involved. I'd move it to the Timelines/Original/1 but it seems unnecessary, especially since the part about Oriko in Timelines/Original clarifies that it's possibly another timeline altogether. But I'm confused, what do you mean there's at least three Oriko Timelines? Sadness Prayeris just more detail and backstory added to the normal Oriko manga.Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:06, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

3 would be if you consider the original Oriko Magica to be separate from Sadness Prayer. That's why it's only possibly 3; I do think it makes sense to read those two as one and the same, though. That said, I just thought of one more – the timeline of Oriko Mikuni (Final ver.) (and likely all the Oriko content from Magia Record). ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 23:39, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Deleting a tweet does not necessarily equate to disavowing it. I don't know the context here, but there are people who just habitually delete their old tweets (I think the Suzune Magica artist is one of them). ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 19:43, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

If evryone else is okay with it then so am I. I'm all for adding Anireco to somewhere else, even in the Law of Cycles Universe. I'd also add the game there too since the LoC has access to them. Can I proceed with that? Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:06, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're asking, but the main argument for keeping Magia Record separate is the discrepancies between historical magical girls, so merging it in with everything else would seem to be counterproductive...? Or were you asking something else? ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 23:39, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

I don't think I'd consider Exedra "tackling" Anireco as you say to be "lucky", exactly. It's more likely to just end up confusing things even further. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:06, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

I mean, Scene 0 has just confused things further because they decided on exactly 32 days, so yeah... ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 23:39, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

Environmental Evidence

I seem to recall somewhere it mentioned that some scenes were changed in the TV version. Do any of those changes support the May-June theory over the March-April theory? If so, that could be mentioned in the Dating section. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 20:14, 17 October 2025 (UTC)