Talk:Timeline (Historical)

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All Spinoffs Are Canon To One Another Theory

Basically, I see the Timeline articles seem to be considering everything they can to be canon? Basically just skipping gag manga like Madoka Engawa or Magia Report, and stuff like comic anthologies. While I'd describe that as a controversial decision (There are purists that only consider the anime and Rebellion canon, some that accept Wraith Arc too... People who don't accept Magia Record as canon whatsoever, regardless of how they feel about the manga spinoffs... People who consider PMMM to have multiple independent canons... People who consider Scene0 non-canon (oh hey, that's me), and so on...), if we intend on synthesizing indeed everything, then we have to consider PMMM to be happening in 2011. This is stated on Kirika's gravestone in Puella Magi Oriko Magica volume 2, page 97. EPF (talk) 19:58, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

I think it's best to gather all the information and let each reader decide which parts are canon. That's also a good reason to add references, especially in articles like this one and Timelines, so readers know where certain pieces of information ultimately come from. But… I would say it's literally impossible to consider absolutely everything to actually be canon. We can gather all the information in one place, but claiming it's all part of one coherent whole is certainly a stretch. But then again, by gathering it all together, it can also be made clearer where the contradictions lie. For example, the role of Cleopatra and Himiko in the original anime versus their role in Magia Record. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 04:17, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

I second what Celtic said. For this page, let's act like everything is canon and let people decide what is or isn't canon for them. Also, as for Kirika's gravestone, that was likely retconned in Sadness Prayer much like Kirika's phone model (its a flip-phone in the original Oriko Magica, but a more generic smartphone in Sadness Prayer). Also, if we assume that Magia Record and Madoka Magica take place at the same time like is stated in Magia Record, it is impossible for it to be 2011 due to the model phones that are used by the characters. Amaterasu (talk) 13:03, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

I also think it's better to not include birthdates of random characters, like Kirika's. Also, since Exedra seems like it's gonna have retellings of the manga stories, then we can treat the 2011 debacle as retconned when/if that happens. Maybe just including the 2011 details in brackets and not a whole subheading is enough to not have one for 2011 and also present day.Sweet Beanie (talk) 11:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, it's been more-or-less retconned, but I don't see how Kirika's birthday is different from Kosane's? I think we should represent that information even if it's inconsistent with other media, perhaps *precisely* because it's inconsistent. What's the point of a timeline page that includes years if something that may-or-may-not be considered canon that points exactly when most spinoffs happen, and then not including it? We're including NMS, for love's sake. I'm the first person in line to praise NMS but treating its events as something universal and not one weird spinoff is a reach in its own right. EPF (talk) 16:14, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Wraith Arc

Isn't the recent past, from right before Homura arrived in the timeline historical? In Wraith Arc, the first couple of chapters showcase Sayaka, Kyoko and Mami fighting wraiths and when Sayaka is taken to the Law of Cycles, Homura "wakes up" into the new timeline. I believe this is good territory for historical, since they remain the same even after Homura goes back in time again at the end of Wraith Arc. Sweet Beanie (talk) 20:59, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I suppose you could treat that as a grey area, but it's such a recent past that it just doesn't make sense to me to call it "historical" – much like Madoka's time in the US after the second rewrite, though that's a bit less recent so I let it pass. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Oriko Extra Story

Can I migrate the timeline of Symmetry Diamond from Timelines#Symmetry Diamond Timeline to Timeline (Historical)#Present Day? I think it has enough to justify it as part of the the first timeline (thus historical like Kazumi and Suzune which are just happening in other places at the same time). I can leave links to one and the other to cross-reference them in case it's needed, but I'd rather not do anything without approval. Sweet Beanie (talk) 12:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Kirika is a magical girl and is together with Oriko. I'm pretty sure that alone is enough to prove it doesn't predate Homura's time travelling. Being part of the first timeline (from whenever the loops start) doesn't qualify it as Historical. I think it should be at least a few month prior to the main anime before we start to call something historical, though several years would be preferable. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 04:57, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Why are the spinoffs here?

I see that a summary of Suzune Magica and Kazumi Magica was added to the Present Day section. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Covering some of the historical aspects of Kazumi Magica (like how Michiru and Mami met, or the encounter between Yuuri and Kyouko) is one thing, but the main plot of those manga doesn't belong here. I don't know whether it belongs on the other page either, mind you. It's clear from Kazumi Magica that it must have occurred around the same year (plus or minus one) as Homura's loops, but if you ignore the evidence from Magia Record, I'm not aware of anything firmly placing the time period. Suzune Magica is even more nebulous, so it could be past or present. We just don't know. But if you do consider evidence from Magia Record, then both clearly occur around the same time as the main anime, so at the very least they don't belong in Historical. ~ Celtic Minstrel (talk) 05:21, 26 March 2025 (UTC)